Coward county sheriff making more excuses
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a court determined that the deputy had no duty to charge in and defend anyone on site. If that is the case, why do citizens have to pay taxes to support the entity and why does the state have an exclusive on legal 'force'?
This discussion just reminded me too, I had read some time ago that the job of the police, no matter local, state or federal level, are only there to "maintain the general peace and order". I believe it was during the Heller case this was brought up too.
If you want to interpret the ruling word by word, it literally means that even if you were being mugged by some crackhead at gunpoint on the street, a police officer is not duty-bound to help YOU. He is duty-bound to take down the crackhead for the general peace of the society he has sworn to protect.
If you want to interpret the ruling word by word, it literally means that even if you were being mugged by some crackhead at gunpoint on the street, a police officer is not duty-bound to help YOU. He is duty-bound to take down the crackhead for the general peace of the society he has sworn to protect.
The active shooter policy at the time of the shooting:
"If real time intelligence exists the sole deputy or a team of deputies MAY
enter the area and/or structure to preserve life. A supervisor’s approval or on-
site observation is not required for this decision."
That essentially was a get out of jail free card if anyone didn't want to go in. You "may" go in, but you didn't have to.
Sheriff repeatedly supported that language and policy in the weeks and months after the shooting.
The new policy changes "may" to "shall".
Dude is only concerned about his paycheck, so he's not going to leave office until forced to do so.
You're referring to the Castle Rock decision, back in 2005. Yeah, SCOTUS did us a real solid on that one.
From The Gray Lady: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/...ot-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
Yep, that is the one. Thanks for posting.
In that case, the 2nd Amendment should even be more valid in the current state of affairs. If the police are not legally obligated to protect us, then, WE as individuals should take charge of defending ourselves and our loved ones. Just like in the old days, the job of the sheriff and his deputies are to collect taxes and lead posses in the pursuit of wanted individuals.
In the case of street criminals, they are usually dealt with by ordinary armed townsmen and the coroner comes to gather up the cadaver of the ventilated perp.
I am not sure if the courts have ruled on this particular case, or if they will. Some victims parents have brought a case but I don't think it has hit the courts yet.
But the courts have ruled many many times that no government official has the duty to protect anyone single individual. Their duty is to the community as a whole. Which is absolutely how it should be.
If in fact that the courts ruled the government IS responsible for each and everyone's personal safety, well expect to have everyone rounded up and put in an individual padded cell "for your safety".
You can not force a person to endanger themselves. This is why we admire bravery and self sacrifice.
I am not saying the police officer at the school that day was not a coward. He was and is. When the SHTF you never know how someone will react. I am saying that for the reasons above I should be allowed to defend myself anywhere I stand. Because of the above statement I am the only one required to.
But you'll notice those same cowards are suddenly all happy to go as a gang to rip firearms away from citizens in their homes just because somebody anonymously lies about them for a bit of payback...
They are all brave enough to shoot citizens in their own homes to take their guns....
But when actual bad guys are actually murdering kids in a big way.....
Well they couldn't you know be expected to risk their lives.....
Might get in the way of that big retirement check....
Then they wonder why people don't worship them as "heroes" anymore....
They are all brave enough to shoot citizens in their own homes to take their guns....
But when actual bad guys are actually murdering kids in a big way.....
Well they couldn't you know be expected to risk their lives.....
Might get in the way of that big retirement check....
Then they wonder why people don't worship them as "heroes" anymore....
That chickenshit coward and others like him will have their day someday and it will not go well for them.
They are quick to be the bully when you can't do anything about it and they have you by the short hairs but when it comes down to fight or flight, you can see their tailfeathers in the air.
There are many LEOs with their heads in the right place, but there are many others who do not have that mindset and they need weeded out.
It can only be done from within the ranks and there is a BIG failure there.
Call it as you see it where people are just hired because of Affirmative Action race creed or culture, but on the Police force none the less.
That is where the Good Guys need to step up and make LEO an honored and esteemed profession. Weed out the bad ones and make them hire again. Eventually you will get a good one and hang on to him/her.
To defend the bad ones just because of The Blue Line does nothing other than drag the good LEOs down.
You have a rough row to hoe. Get you some of that Affirmative Action, How is it working out for you?
They are quick to be the bully when you can't do anything about it and they have you by the short hairs but when it comes down to fight or flight, you can see their tailfeathers in the air.
There are many LEOs with their heads in the right place, but there are many others who do not have that mindset and they need weeded out.
It can only be done from within the ranks and there is a BIG failure there.
Call it as you see it where people are just hired because of Affirmative Action race creed or culture, but on the Police force none the less.
That is where the Good Guys need to step up and make LEO an honored and esteemed profession. Weed out the bad ones and make them hire again. Eventually you will get a good one and hang on to him/her.
To defend the bad ones just because of The Blue Line does nothing other than drag the good LEOs down.
You have a rough row to hoe. Get you some of that Affirmative Action, How is it working out for you?
The role of the government in society is to aid in the progression and development of said society, provide people with an audience and an outlet for their concerns and act as a mediator between conflicting parties. Governments should also be responsible for directing people to the resources that they need in their daily lives.
The matter of self protection should rest entirely in the hands of the individual citizen. In the event of an incident that involves the use of deadly force, resulting in or not resulting in the death of a person, the role of the government is to investigate the case and see if there is wrongdoing committed by either party.
Other than that, the government should not have any say in the types of weapons or ammunition capacity that the individual is allowed to own, providing that said individual do not pose a risk to himself or the public safety. That is it. Personal matters are personal matters.
In the case of the deputy during the school shooting, he was perhaps the only "good guy with a gun" in that area who is in perfect capacity to respond and save lives. The fact that he did not take advantage of his position to act on good will calls his own personal character into question. He will have to live with his decisions for the rest of his life.
When an agency policy is too specific, it ties the agency to a specific course of action, and if this course of action is not taken, it opens the agency to the possibility of more law suits. Vague is better. If the policy had said that officers "shall" enter a building rather than "may" enter the building, the chances of a successful law suit would be higher. My agency used to try and write policies in such a manner as to leave them as much latitude, and expose them to as little civil liability as possible. This is not an uncommon way of writing policy.
The real men put themselves between their students and the shooter that day.
Not in this case. This is a POLICY change. It's not law. Furthermore, the SCOTUS (twice) and multiple lower federal courts have ruled that government agencies have NO LEGAL DUTY to provide protection to citizens. Those precedents are effectively law. Policy does not supersede law. Ever.
This is a PR move and nothing more. It will have no effect on outcomes, nor will it change government agency liability.
Police Departments should post to citizens their intentions when it comes to school shootings if they refuse to go in, then the parents can decide wether or not to hire a private security teams for the schools.
You are correct, and I have long been aware of the "no duty to protect" ruling. I always found it interesting how agencies come up with their policies. I used to have to write and consult about various firearms policies. I didn't mind writing the firearms policies, but stayed as far away as I could from use of force policies, even though the two do have lots of areas of overlap.
It is interesting how changing one word from "may" to "will" or "shall" completely changes a policy and the agency direction. As you are most likely aware, even though an agency has a policy, that doesn't necessarily mean that the brass won't try and interpret the policy in some new manner.
The way the policy change has been presented in the media (perhaps intentionally) implies that the police will now "have a duty." I've had to explain to some friends on social media that it's not true. Ignorance is bliss, eh?
cops should have no duty to do anything, hell half the shit they do now is illegal and unconstitutional, dont want to give them any more power. However, how any american man that is armed or not can stand by and do nothing while teenagers are slaughtered, all involved suck start a 12 gauge.
Our society needs more men like Stephen Willeford and Johnnie Langendorff.
They were never cops or soldiers, yet they did what real cops or soldiers would have done. They are true heroes and role models we should follow. Let us take a long look at ourselves in the mirror right now and ask ourselves: When evil strikes again, DO WE HAVE WHAT IT TAKES? Are we going to stand up and be counted? Or are we going to run away like cowards with our dicks tucked into our assholes? What do we own guns for?
I already have my answer. What about the rest of us?
They were never cops or soldiers, yet they did what real cops or soldiers would have done. They are true heroes and role models we should follow. Let us take a long look at ourselves in the mirror right now and ask ourselves: When evil strikes again, DO WE HAVE WHAT IT TAKES? Are we going to stand up and be counted? Or are we going to run away like cowards with our dicks tucked into our assholes? What do we own guns for?
I already have my answer. What about the rest of us?
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
WTF???
"It is the strong belief of this sheriff that no policies, no words would have led to Deputy (Scot) Peterson going into that building,"
I think they knew this fucker had been a chickenshit and for years they had him working at the school because nobody wanted him as a partner.
"It is the strong belief of this sheriff that no policies, no words would have led to Deputy (Scot) Peterson going into that building,"
I think they knew this fucker had been a chickenshit and for years they had him working at the school because nobody wanted him as a partner.
could be but more cops showed up and watched from outside, unfathomable really.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Lying coward shit right here. His excuses don't add up to dry shit? This is the fucker right here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna879716
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna879716
Are good cops ever posted to schools? It's always the puss or f up. Not the smart or hard charger
I just read this rather disturbing timeline of what happened at Parkland, just tonight.
It's a tough read, because the depth of incompetence is PROFOUND and SYSTEMIC.
projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/
It's a tough read, because the depth of incompetence is PROFOUND and SYSTEMIC.
projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/
Woman shouldn't be cops. They can't handle themselves physically and will go for the gun right away.
Height/strength/etc standards were there for a reason.
How many times has a woman cop been disarmed and third party innocents killed
They can be cops as soon as they successfully compete in non segregated sports like football soccer etc
I was raised in a conservative northeast Chinese household. Women are nurturers and educators. Men hunted, fought and protected. There is a reason why this has been the model for the last 5000 years.
Yep, it is a "feel good" change in policy unless the agency begins to actually act like they give a damn about protecting the public.
My brother and SIL work at the same school.
Their school officer is an exception to this.
He is a devout constitutionalist, long range enthousiast, and a solid dude.
He believes in teachers and staff training and carrying in schools if they choose.
One in a million I am sure and glad he is there where my neices go to school and my brother is neutered not being able to carry.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
In law "shall" is a lot different than "may". They have to go in and alone if necessitated correctly. They also don't have time to help people that are injured or put up with any stupid bullshit. With this the public is just going to have to stomach any fallout as far as collateral damage. The police need to be immune when they enter to stop the threat. They don't go in with complete disregard for the victims but shit may happen and the police need to be duly protected and the public informed as such.
Sorry but if the police wind up "accidentally" killing one, some, or bunch of people they are supposedly trying to "protect" from the bad guy, they NEED to be held accountable. You CANNOT just write some blank check that whatever the supposed "great and wonderful police" do is fine and tough luck for those they kill and injure. The citizens NEED to be able to have them called into court to answer for their actions if their actions harm another party, otherwise why have a rule of law at all? Our rule of law is about to be completely destroyed not by a few criminal actors, but by the out of control actions and lack of consequence for those we have hired as the guards in our society.
Now you can give the police limited immunity from criminal and civil actions by the actual criminal perpetrator because they by their own actions caused the issue in the first place and necessitated the issue. You can also give them some limited immunity of they while using the utmost care and professionalism wound up accidentally injuring someone else unavoidably when stopping a violent criminal who was actively posing a deadly threat to them or others. But that doesn't extend to wildly shooting around when not explicitly sure of where their shot will land.
It doesn't work that way in the real world for the rest of us, so their should be no double standard. If I have to use deadly force to defend myself, my family, my friends or my property, I'm still criminally and civilly responsible for any harm that I specifically cause uninvolved parties by my actions. This whole double standard is the root of the problem.
The whole problem with the out of control police "forces" in this country stems in large part from them never being held personally accountable and personally liable for their actions.
Take out the hypothetical and go with the ACTUAL events.
Of all the mass shootings and killings in the past 30 or so years, how many were actually stopped by the police rushing in and shooting the bad guy? All the way back to Columbine and going forward.
Most of the time you see the police waiting outside for the shooter to run out of bullets or shoot themselves.
Or at best the shooter is just about out of victims and bullets when the police finally decide they should go in (like the pulse night club).
THEN they act all big and tough pointing their machine guns at terrified kids as they flee... sure have a bunch of terrified kids marching with their hands up as you point machine guns at them.... I call that COWARDICE and it happens all the time.
Then instead of holding A. the bad person fully responsible and B. The "law enforcement" cowards responsible, they want to make the law abiding citizens pay with giving up their rights.
In the last big school shooting, unarmed teachers were doing their best to protect the children, at the cost of their own lives while the COWARDS that are supposed to be these "police heroes" were sitting outside hiding. Had the first one there actually run in gun drawn and headed towards the shooter homing in on the gun fire, a lot of lives may have been saved & he may have very well won the fight as well.
So you say it's not their job.... well if you have a guard dog and the first time some criminal comes on your property the "Guard Dog" runs and hides leaving you to face them alone... then growls at you when you come back after the battle.... you get rid of that useless dog and get a better one. People forget that the police and "law enforcement" are nothing more than the publically hired security guards that the public hires through the administrators that they also hire to administer things. And if they don't perform or are a danger to the public or forget their place, they should be out on their asses along with the administrators and hire new people for both the administrators and the security guards.
That the entire sheriff's department there in Florida has not been totally sacked top to bottom says a lot about the stupidity of the public. Let alone what letting the COWARD of a school resource officer that hid while kids were getting killed retire with his pension says about our society.
That coward should have been out on his ass with the others and their pensions being used to help pay for the funerals.
We don't need more immunity and less accountability for the police. They have PROVEN time and again to be worse than useless when it comes to these events. What we need is more armed citizens with the right to carry and not be disarmed. Then provide the Citizens with limited immunity both criminally and civilly for anything done to harm the actual bad guy and a bit of leniency if they unavoidably hurt someone while stopping a killer. You can extend that same thing to the police as well just fine.
regardless of policy, any cocksucker that does not run into the fire when women or children are being killed, is a coward.
period
period
Not too long after the Texas church shooting there was a massive apartment blaze in Bronx, NY started by an unattended stove. A US Army soldier who just returned home to be with his family rushed into the building, now engulfed in flames, and single-handedly helped between 6 and 16 people flee or carried them out, then ran back inside to see if any more people were trapped inside. He sacrificed his life doing a most noble act of chivalry.
Did he have to go in that building? Most certainly not. Did he go in anyway? He most certainly did, as the selfless hero he was.
Meet Emmanuel Mensah...A MAN amongst men:
Unarmed coaches and teachers have no problem protecting kids with their lives in each of these shootings. Maybe we dont need police anymore. Or at least they should shut the fuck up with this hero bullshit and just admit they are revenue collectors and armed agents of the Dem and Repub parties. No interest in anything else.
I'm sad to say this is the first I've heard of this young man.Not too long after the Texas church shooting there was a massive apartment blaze in Bronx, NY started by an unattended stove. A US Army soldier who just returned home to be with his family rushed into the building, now engulfed in flames, and single-handedly helped between 6 and 16 people flee or carried them out, then ran back inside to see if any more people were trapped inside. He sacrificed his life doing a most noble act of chivalry.
Did he have to go in that building? Most certainly not. Did he go in anyway? He most certainly did, as the selfless hero he was.
Meet Emmanuel Mensah...A MAN amongst men:
R
Time to put guns and gun training into the hands of formerly unarmed coaches and teachers. Problem solved.
The job of the police, really is, to just arrive post-incident and record the details, as well as secure the body of the DEAD would-be shooter.
2017 was a year of A LOT of heroes who were not paid to put their lives on the line, but did.
I'll say it and I don't give a damn if it's politically incorrect. Sheriff Scum-Bag was too busy kissing the asses of Islamic terrorists than to care about protecting the community. He's a typical leftist POS.
Apologies in advance for posting these videos as they make me puke but you need to see what a POS he and some of his deputies are.
The deputy is a POS that belongs to CAIR. He's a terrorist - period. The Communist News Network is putting their spin on this video but there is no doubt that Ms. Kauffman is correct on this one.
Apologies in advance for posting these videos as they make me puke but you need to see what a POS he and some of his deputies are.
The deputy is a POS that belongs to CAIR. He's a terrorist - period. The Communist News Network is putting their spin on this video but there is no doubt that Ms. Kauffman is correct on this one.
Truly stunning incompetence and misfeasance (and arguablyl malfeasance). I went through the whole timeline. It was not easy. But it revealed jaw-dropping inaction on the part of BCSO.
cops need to be held to the same legal standard as a civilian, self defense is no different for a cop than it is for a civilian. No more two tiered legal system, its bullshit and a major reason cops are hated by a large and growing section of this country..
Cop enters school to respond to a call,,,, no special protection needed
Cop confronts a citizen shooting other citizens, cop shoots murderer dead, viola ...done
Civilian hears shooting inside a school, enters school confronts citizen shooting other citizens, draws his carry pistol and shoots murderer dead,, viola,,,, done
Why does a cop need special protection?
Cop enters school to respond to a call,,,, no special protection needed
Cop confronts a citizen shooting other citizens, cop shoots murderer dead, viola ...done
Civilian hears shooting inside a school, enters school confronts citizen shooting other citizens, draws his carry pistol and shoots murderer dead,, viola,,,, done
Why does a cop need special protection?
Cops arrive after citizen shoots the murderer. All is quiet, so cops enter building now that it's safe. Cops see citizen/hero and kill him/her cause he/she has a gun.
thats a possibility, if cops actually have the balls to enter building which evidence shows they dont so we shouldn't have that problem right?
sadly
I gotta say, I lived in Broward for 15 years, I shot a lot with the BSO, we shared the same range, everyone of them were good dudes, not a prick amongst them. This event took place under this sheriff Israel, that mother fucker is a cancer. I don excuse the guys who showed up and did nothing though. I am shocked at how fast a department can change with bad leadership. Or maybe it was there already and I never recognized it Any officer that was there and did nothing should do the last honorable thing though.
I gotta say, I lived in Broward for 15 years, I shot a lot with the BSO, we shared the same range, everyone of them were good dudes, not a prick amongst them. This event took place under this sheriff Israel, that mother fucker is a cancer. I don excuse the guys who showed up and did nothing though. I am shocked at how fast a department can change with bad leadership. Or maybe it was there already and I never recognized it Any officer that was there and did nothing should do the last honorable thing though.
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