Newbie question

SargentRay

Diligentia-Vis-Celeritas
Minuteman
Hello gang and thank's for having me. To make a long story short i come from a Law enforcement background, as such i have decent experience with handguns but only recently got into rifles so i know very few things about them. I started out with an AR-15 last fall and living in Canada nobody knows if they are going to ban/confiscate the AR,s in a near future or not. So i've been thinking about getting a non restricted rifle in case push comes to shove one day. I've been trying out different rifles in varying calibers at the range and so far the Tikka T3 in 308 seems to be my preference. My question is do we absolutely have to buy a complete rifle and take off the stock in order to fit the action/barrel into a modular system or can they be bought separately without a butt stock on them ? I know this must be a silly question but so far everyone i asked at the range didn't have any other answer beside "Call Tikka and ask". I'll call them of course if i ever find a number, but just wanted to check among connaisseurs first.
 
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Tikkas are great rifles. I've never heard of being able to buy a Tikka barreled action only.

I've got a T3 Varmint model in 22-250 and it's a tack driver. I've thought about replacing the stock but it shoots so well I'm just going to leave it as it came.
 
First off, Welcome to the Hide!

Tikka’s are by far my favorite factory rifle. I also have a custom built off a Tikka action. That said, have you looked into the Howa barreled actions? I haven’t seen a factory Tikka barreled actions offered in the wild, unless for sale here in the PX. Howa makes a great barreled action in all the popular flavors (6mm, 6.5mm and 308)

You can probably score one for $500-ish. Throw it into a chassis/stock of your choice and not deal with the left over parts.
 
I started out with an AR-15 last fall and living in Canada nobody knows if they are going to ban/confiscate the AR,s in a near future or not. So i've been thinking about getting a non restricted rifle in case push comes to shove one day.

Hoping that never comes to pass but if it does it would be nice if all AR owners told Trudeau to eat a dick....Oh, wait, he already does.

You can find lots of reading on here and if you do you will get some good gear.

As messed up as your laws are, like ours, I think you may have a little more access to some "exotic" stuff that we dont.

Personally Im a fan of Remington 700s or Winchester Model 70s with the best quality big ass diameter barrel installed by a first class builder in a finely bedded stock.

Good luck.
 
Tikkas are great rifles. I've never heard of being able to buy a Tikka barreled action only.

I've got a T3 Varmint model in 22-250 and it's a tack driver. I've thought about replacing the stock but it shoots so well I'm just going to leave it as it came.
Ok thank's you see that's already a better answer that what i got so far. Like i said i know so little about long guns, i ask a lot of questions and i learn as i go along. You also bring up a very interesting point about getting a chassis in the first place, in the sense that the wooden stocks like the Sporter's just looks so good it would be a hame to remove it and let it die in a cub-board or something ya know ? That's also a point where i have so much to learn. Would a modular chassis really improve my accuracy for bench rest 100 or 200 yds target shooting ?

Thank's for the reply
 
First off, Welcome to the Hide!

Tikka’s are by far my favorite factory rifle. I also have a custom built off a Tikka action. That said, have you looked into the Howa barreled actions? I haven’t seen a factory Tikka barreled actions offered in the wild, unless for sale here in the PX. Howa makes a great barreled action in all the popular flavors (6mm, 6.5mm and 308)

You can probably score one for $500-ish. Throw it into a chassis/stock of your choice and not deal with the left over parts.
Hello Lunchbox27 and thank's for the welcome, i'm favoring Tikka only because i tried it out at the range and could only compare with a few other rifles like savage and Remington. Can't say i liked the feeling of the Savage (but it was just me perhaps) but the Remington was very good too. It's just that the Tikka's action felt that much smoother. But to answer your question i did come across the Howa 1500 APC Canadian Predator as a kit complete with a 4-16 x 50 scope and red/white color scheme during my research. In the video that i saw the shooter seemed to struggle a bit when closing the bolt maybe a bullet length issue though. It sure looks nice and with that option i would indeed not have to deal with spare parts. It is pretty cheap at 1,500$ too, but i know so little about the brand i really can't say if it would be a good buy for me.

Thank's for the reply as well
 
Hoping that never comes to pass but if it does it would be nice if all AR owners told Trudeau to eat a dick....Oh, wait, he already does.

You can find lots of reading on here and if you do you will get some good gear.

As messed up as your laws are, like ours, I think you may have a little more access to some "exotic" stuff that we dont.

Personally Im a fan of Remington 700s or Winchester Model 70s with the best quality big ass diameter barrel installed by a first class builder in a finely bedded stock.

Good luck.
Hello to you too pmclaine, for sure i see more Remington 700s at the range than anything else, it must mean something right ? Then again at 58 years old i'll probably only get one precision rifle until i die, so i'm thinking i might as well invest a little more and, well you know just buy once. Of course as you put it, with a very good bull barrel i might just be as satisfied with a Remington than anything else. I haven't made up my mind yet of course so i'll look at everything out there before i commit to a brand or a system. To be honest my first choice was to build something in 223 Rem caliber since i already am familiar with that cartridge and do my own reloads for the AR. But when i spoke about that at the range guys were laughing at me, some saying it was a "Sissy. caliber others telling me it was an unstable caliber under drastic temperature changes. I don't know much about long guns but i'm starting to know my way around powders and to my knowledge temperature impacts powder performances more than anything else, especially with a heavy barrel. I love the camaraderie out there on the range but sometimes things you hear are just not helpful, counterproductive in fact.

Thank's for your reply

P.S. forgot to mention concerning Trudeau i can tell you he is going down in polls everyday, all gun owners wish Canadians will kick him out in October, in favor of Andrew Sheer who is a gun owner himself and swore to repeal C-71 and never ban ARs. But with the Liberal party you never know, they are powerful and have all the right wealthy friends to bail them out when shit hits the fan. They might not get re elected as a majority government but they could form a coalition government with another party, which would be just as bad as having them a Majority. Our future as gun owners at the moment doesn't look too good unfortunately.
 
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Sounds like you have some counter-productive people at the range. The .223 Rem is a fine cartridge - depending on what you want to do. It's predecessor is the .222 Rem which was the most accurate cartridge used in Benchrest many years ago. Its shortcomings would be limited energy for hunting and lower Ballistic Coefficient for longer ranges.

As you probably know the .308 Win is an accurate cartridge as well.

Where the Chassis or Fiberglass stock are a benefit is stability under all weather conditions and abuse. A wood stock can work well if it's sealed and not exposed to extremes. These types of stocks usually have some means to adjust Pull Length and Cheek Rest.

If you want to do stricktly bench rest type of shooting you will ( eventually ) want a stock with a wide forend. True Benchrest rifle forend are something like 3 inches across so they rock less.

Feel free to ask questions here and do some searching and reading. It sounds like you would get more accurate information here.

Have fun!
 
Sounds like you have some counter-productive people at the range. The .223 Rem is a fine cartridge - depending on what you want to do. It's predecessor is the .222 Rem which was the most accurate cartridge used in Benchrest many years ago. Its shortcomings would be limited energy for hunting and lower Ballistic Coefficient for longer ranges.

As you probably know the .308 Win is an accurate cartridge as well.

Where the Chassis or Fiberglass stock are a benefit is stability under all weather conditions and abuse. A wood stock can work well if it's sealed and not exposed to extremes. These types of stocks usually have some means to adjust Pull Length and Cheek Rest.

If you want to do stricktly bench rest type of shooting you will ( eventually ) want a stock with a wide forend. True Benchrest rifle forend are something like 3 inches across so they rock less.

Feel free to ask questions here and do some searching and reading. It sounds like you would get more accurate information here.

Have fun!
No kidding, what i mostly observed from many folks at the range, especially the older ones is that they absolutely have to have the last word in any conversation. Problem is most times when confronted with actual facts they keep holding on to their points of view with often times just a bunch of lies or they will say they didn't understand my question or that i wasn't clear enough about something. It took me a few months to figure out which people were honest and which were outright liars. I remember one guy who interrupted me in a conversation with another member about how i was having difficulty attaining one MOA @/100 yds with my DDM4V7, he blatantly told everyone present he could easily shoot dime size groups at 100 with his 10,5" Norinco AR-15. I just couldn't refrain myself from calling him a bullshitter and i never spoke to him again. The very next week he showed up at the range with 2 female guests. Wanting to impress them no doubt he had brought like 4 different guns. I remember him very clearly shooting his famous Norinco, i kid you not he could barely make 6" groups. Everybody there that day laughed at him so much we never saw him at the range again, this was in December. But i digress.

Back to your interesting answer i knew and agree with the facts and history of the .223 Rem caliber. I simply find it pleasant to shoot compared to stronger calibers that sometimes give me a headache, you know shooting a few feet away from a guy with a 6.5 CM with a muzzle break on ? Logically at my range the longest distance being 200 yds why would i need a bigger caliber than .223 ? But us shooters don't we want to always be ready for that one time we do something different, like going on an invite to a bigger range ? Here in my area though (and the whole province for hat matter) the SQ (our provincial police) have closed down most if not every gun range over 200 yds. They said it was always because of noise complaints, but a 100 or 200 yd range isn't less noisy than a 1,000 yd one, in reality they kept the smaller exterior ranges opened so they can use them (on rentals) for their own training and annual mandatory qualifications. So any hopes of serious long range training here is just a dream. Hence why i might seem so undecided on a caliber at this point. But hey i'll eventually figure out what is best for me along the way, with the help of guys like yourself hopefully.

Reading your response about the stability of chassis and other materials than wood just made me realize why one of the shooters i get along with at the range always brings his AR-15 on rainy days. He calls it his Rain Gun, now i understand why. I just realized now at this instant that he never brings his Tikka Sportster when it's raining. It all makes sense now. Also i didn't know about the wider forend size fact, it makes perfect sense though, a bare barrel will cant much easier, i get it. Thank you for that input, i'll remember it :)
 
Read on the internet or look at the ballistic yourself a 223 with 77 TMKs will out shoot a 308 with 175 smk to 1000 yards. I have one comp rifle in 223 and am getting ready to build another because there cheaper to shoot just as accurate and in the wind make you a better shooter even though the bc of the bullets is getting close to 6mm. I would say at the club matches I shoot it isn’t uncommon for 2 or 3 including the winner sometimes to be shooting a 223 a very capable cartridge. As far as the tikka vs the Remington tikka by far. I have owned at least 15 Remington 700 probably more but my tikka is butter smooth even compared to my custom bighorn actions. I have a vendor I talk with up in Canada and he has explained the gun laws to me so I have a little understanding. I would get what you want the first time and keep it. A tikka doesn’t have a horrible stock and magazine factory but a $350 bravo and arc mag is a great upgrade and you can sell the old stock and mag to cover half the cost. Just my 10 cents.
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone at a public range that I didn’t already known that wasn’t full of shit. I don’t frequent public ranges but my last trip was probably the best. Two guys were shooting at the 200 yard line and in between strings I ask what he was shooting. I think he said it was a 270 and they couldn’t get it on paper. I ask if it was on paper at 100 and he said no they bore sighted it at the gun shop so it should be close. I suggested that he not waste anymore ammo and move over to the 25 to get it on paper which they did to my surprise. They shot three times as manny rounds out of that poor pencil barrel deer rifle at 25 yards than I did out of my m24 contour target rifle at 200 yards. My barrel was hot that barrel had to be bending. Sorry for the long story DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU HERE AT THE RANGE
 
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"concerning Trudeau i can tell you he is going down"


Truer words were never spoken, question is "On who?"




I just built a .223 version of the USMC M40 sniper from Vietnam. It's a joy to shoot.

Weirds me out kind of as its fit makes me think of my .308 but when it recoils "I'm like what the hell!"

 
Read on the internet or look at the ballistic yourself a 223 with 77 TMKs will out shoot a 308 with 175 smk to 1000 yards. I have one comp rifle in 223 and am getting ready to build another because there cheaper to shoot just as accurate and in the wind make you a better shooter even though the bc of the bullets is getting close to 6mm. I would say at the club matches I shoot it isn’t uncommon for 2 or 3 including the winner sometimes to be shooting a 223 a very capable cartridge. As far as the tikka vs the Remington tikka by far. I have owned at least 15 Remington 700 probably more but my tikka is butter smooth even compared to my custom bighorn actions. I have a vendor I talk with up in Canada and he has explained the gun laws to me so I have a little understanding. I would get what you want the first time and keep it. A tikka doesn’t have a horrible stock and magazine factory but a $350 bravo and arc mag is a great upgrade and you can sell the old stock and mag to cover half the cost. Just my 10 cents.
I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone at a public range that I didn’t already known that wasn’t full of shit. I don’t frequent public ranges but my last trip was probably the best. Two guys were shooting at the 200 yard line and in between strings I ask what he was shooting. I think he said it was a 270 and they couldn’t get it on paper. I ask if it was on paper at 100 and he said no they bore sighted it at the gun shop so it should be close. I suggested that he not waste anymore ammo and move over to the 25 to get it on paper which they did to my surprise. They shot three times as manny rounds out of that poor pencil barrel deer rifle at 25 yards than I did out of my m24 contour target rifle at 200 yards. My barrel was hot that barrel had to be bending. Sorry for the long story DONT BELIEVE WHAT YOU HERE AT THE RANGE

Good morning bschneiderheinze, hmmm very very interesting stuff in your reply. I would indeed like to keep going with the .223 Rem caliber since i'm pretty familiar with it by now and i have my whole reloading bench set up for it . In fact the 77gr bullets are my next test subjects. Here the market is so small, i have to wait until reloading supply stores re stock on Varget powder believe it or not. Should take a few weeks according to the guy at the counter. So far i've only played with 55 and 62gr bullets with CFE-223 powder, a combination ok for plinking i guess but far from the accuracy i'm looking for, but i imagine this is also due to the AR-15 platform's limitation. Again i have to agree with you about the Tikka's smoother action compared to others. I might be a newbie but this i felt immediately. After reading your reply and before going to bed i watched a few reviews of the Bravo stocks and they were all quite positive. The aluminium plate reinforcing the system seems like a real good idea. The biggest advantage though is certainly the price. For a smaller caliber such as the .223 i would not hesitate to use it. I'm saying this after watching this Mark & Sam video, where Mark adresses muzzle jump:

Now about your funny story out on the range, please don't apologize, i love reading such anecdotes, in fact it could be the subject of a new thread all of it's own. Funny how 2 guys and a salesman it seems, couldn't figure the simple proper procedure to sight in/zero a scope. I mean it takes just a bit of research on the subject to get a good idea of how it's done. his is exactly how i did it the first time i tried my AR and scope; Went to the 50 yd field, put a standing target at 25 and shot maybe 4 or 5 bullets before finding a good zero. I waited until the next week to dare go at the 100 yds field and then it was just a matter of tweaking it a little bit. Since then i've moved on to a more powerful FFP Vortex 5-25x50 scope in MRAD which i'm getting use to. Really it's no rocket science (well it sort of is when you think about it right ?) Thank's for your helpful reply, i appreciate it man.
 
Welcome.

As to your question... when trying to "spec" a rifle the way I want...and if yer willing to consider used equipment... I'll always check gunbroker.com. You can find barrelled actions / stocks individually sometimes, or maybe even the gun exactly the way you want it.

Thank you for serving your fellow man.

Sorry about your political situ.
 
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Truer words were never spoken, question is "On who?"




I just built a .223 version of the USMC M40 sniper from Vietnam. It's a joy to shoot.

Weirds me out kind of as its fit makes me think of my .308 but when it recoils "I'm like what the hell!"


Morning to you too pmclaine, i just watched the Sniper's Hide historical video about ehM40s, quite fascinating to learn how the platform evolved over the years. I have to say the whole system looks quite sturdy, guess it had to be "Army proof" right ? With a heavy barrel recoil must be so minimal.

About Trudeau, as scary as it sounds the way you put it, i still have to agree. Hope my fellow Canadians vote the right way in October...
 
Welcome to the rifle world. I'm a relative newcomer as well (two years now) after decades of American skeet competition. I also started off with an AR-15 and wanted more.

So, my first precision bolt rifle was a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM. It was a very, very capable rifle, giving 1/2" 100-yard groups with every decent factory round I fed it. I would still be shooting that rifle had I not had the opportunity to pick up a custom rifle for a very attractive price. I sold my Tikka in one day (multiple offers). The only negatives on the Tikka were (a) any upward pressure on the magazine totally, utterly stopped the bolt from closing and (b) Tikkas (at least the 6.5CM) have a long throat which tends to lower velocity a little as compared to the exact same round in most other barrels- handloading eliminates that differential. (Also, there are some here who will vehemently argue about that, but Lowlight has a video that acknowledges the fact as he replaced the ACCURATE factory Tikka barrel with a Bartlein gain-twist one.)

If you are limited to 200 yards in range, a .223 makes a lot of sense for the reasons already noted, plus a .223 barrel is going to last twice as long as a 6.5CM or other overbore caliber barrel (.223 and .308 both last 5k rounds +/-). Larger calibers certainly have their appeal, but shooting a precision 6.5CM or even a .308 at no more than 200 yards is like buying a Porsche to drive to the grocery store. I have a Tikka .223 Varmint in an MDT (Canadian company; they're great to deal with!) chassis which consistently gives me 1/2-MOA groups out to 300 yards with factory ammo.

Another approach to consider is rimfire in addition to whatever centerfire you choose. You will find a very passionate group here dedicated to the Vudoo V22 platform (kinda the ultimate tactical-format .22) as well as the much less expensive but still competent CZ 45x and Tikka T1X platforms. Rimfire is its own world with its own "rules" which arise from the fundamental limitations of the cartridge.

If you're already set up to handload .223, seems to me that's the most obvious place to start. Now you get to hear why different people are sure this or that factory rifle is "best" for the new shooter (for me, it's Tikka, period). O, and optics. Again, since you're range-limited, I personally see no reason to buy a top-tier scope at this point. I skimmed a lot of the preceding posts but I seem to recall mention of the gen-2 Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50. I have that scope on my Vudoo .22, and out to 300 yards (max range to which I regularly shoot .22), I see no practical difference between it and the gen-2 Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 scope on my 6.5CM.

Enjoy the ride, and hang on tight to your wallet!
 
Welcome.

As to your question... when trying to "spec" a rifle the way I want...and if yer willing to consider used equipment... I'll always check gunbroker.com. You can find barrelled actions / stocks individually sometimes, or maybe even the gun exactly the way you want it.

Thank you for serving your fellow man.

Sorry about your political situ.

good morning and thank you for the welcome garandman.
Before i answer let me tell you how impressed and touched i am every time somebody thank's me for my service. This is typically American, nobody around here ever tells me that. In fact most people will go on and rant about the police as soon as they find out i was once a cop. You guys have different values on the matter. Wether it be LE or military the average honest hard working American is respectful and thankful of the people who serve or have served in the past. The first time i realized this was last summer when vacationing in New York state; A bunch of NYPD officers where in the hotel lobby i was staying in for some sort of meeting and they were trying to find someone to take a group picture. Of course i volunteered and took a few shots with their iPhone as well as a few as with my camera. After i introduced myself as an ex cop they all came to me and shook my hand thanking me for my service. At the time i was only retired for one week and i got pretty emotional, every one present understood perfectly. It's one of those moments i'll never forget.

Ok now about used equipment well i have no problem buying second hand stuff except perhaps for a barrel, in the sense that it's hard to tell if a barrel is worn out especially when buying on line. Funny we should talk about barrel's life since i had this conversation with the same guy i get along with i mentioned before. At one point he asked me how long i thought a barrel lasted. Of course i tried to give him a smart answer taking into account the caliber, pressures the barrel had to endure and so on and so forth and ending up answering something like a few hundred to a few thousands shots depending. He looked at me and smiled and said: "The answer is 2 to 3 seconds". It took me a while to figure that one out, but i understood what he meant. I.E. every time a bullet goes through a barrel it wears it out a little, but only lasts for .000001 sec (or something like that) after thousands of rounds the total wear time logically only comes out to a few seconds right ? So since that moment i've been thinking of how risky it is to buy a used barrel. This being said i suppose buying from someone you know and trust is less of a risk. But i will certainly go check out gunbroker.com who knows what i could find there. thank's for the tip :)
 
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Before i answer let me tell you how impressed and touched i am every time somebody thank's me for my service. This is typically American, nobody around here ever tells me that. In fact most people will go on and rant about the police as soon as they find out i was once a cop. You guys have different values on the matter. Wether it be LE or military the average honest hard working American is respectful and thankful of the people who serve or have served in the past.
I came of age in the Vietnam era (mid-'60s - mid-'70s). Things were very different then. My father was career Army. He was spit on when he came home. As a teenager, I was shot and seriously wounded by a momentarily-careless hunting partner; I was denied aid at a civilian hospital because I was a military dependent. I wonder if today's appreciation for military and LE grew out of that shameful period.
 
So, my first precision bolt rifle was a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM. It was a very, very capable rifle, giving 1/2" 100-yard groups with every decent factory round I fed it. I would still be shooting that rifle had I not had the opportunity to pick up a custom rifle for a very attractive price. I sold my Tikka in one day (multiple offers). The only negatives on the Tikka were (a) any upward pressure on the magazine totally, utterly stopped the bolt from closing and (b) Tikkas (at least the 6.5CM) have a long throat which tends to lower velocity a little as compared to the exact same round in most other barrels- handloading eliminates that differential. (Also, there are some here who will vehemently argue about that, but Lowlight has a video that acknowledges the fact as he replaced the ACCURATE factory Tikka barrel with a Bartlein gain-twist one.)

If you are limited to 200 yards in range, a .223 makes a lot of sense for the reasons already noted, plus a .223 barrel is going to last twice as long as a 6.5CM or other overbore caliber barrel (.223 and .308 both last 5k rounds +/-). Larger calibers certainly have their appeal, but shooting a precision 6.5CM or even a .308 at no more than 200 yards is like buying a Porsche to drive to the grocery store. I have a Tikka .223 Varmint in an MDT (Canadian company; they're great to deal with!) chassis which consistently gives me 1/2-MOA groups out to 300 yards with factory ammo.

Another approach to consider is rimfire in addition to whatever centerfire you choose. You will find a very passionate group here dedicated to the Vudoo V22 platform (kinda the ultimate tactical-format .22) as well as the much less expensive but still competent CZ 45x and Tikka T1X platforms. Rimfire is its own world with its own "rules" which arise from the fundamental limitations of the cartridge.

If you're already set up to handload .223, seems to me that's the most obvious place to start. Now you get to hear why different people are sure this or that factory rifle is "best" for the new shooter (for me, it's Tikka, period). O, and optics. Again, since you're range-limited, I personally see no reason to buy a top-tier scope at this point. I skimmed a lot of the preceding posts but I seem to recall mention of the gen-2 Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50. I have that scope on my Vudoo .22, and out to 300 yards (max range to which I regularly shoot .22), I see no practical difference between it and the gen-2 Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 scope on my 6.5CM.

Enjoy the ride, and hang on tight to your wallet!
[/QUOTE]

Love you guys

Hello
Welcome to the rifle world. I'm a relative newcomer as well (two years now) after decades of American skeet competition. I also started off with an AR-15 and wanted more.

So, my first precision bolt rifle was a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM. It was a very, very capable rifle, giving 1/2" 100-yard groups with every decent factory round I fed it. I would still be shooting that rifle had I not had the opportunity to pick up a custom rifle for a very attractive price. I sold my Tikka in one day (multiple offers). The only negatives on the Tikka were (a) any upward pressure on the magazine totally, utterly stopped the bolt from closing and (b) Tikkas (at least the 6.5CM) have a long throat which tends to lower velocity a little as compared to the exact same round in most other barrels- handloading eliminates that differential. (Also, there are some here who will vehemently argue about that, but Lowlight has a video that acknowledges the fact as he replaced the ACCURATE factory Tikka barrel with a Bartlein gain-twist one.)

If you are limited to 200 yards in range, a .223 makes a lot of sense for the reasons already noted, plus a .223 barrel is going to last twice as long as a 6.5CM or other overbore caliber barrel (.223 and .308 both last 5k rounds +/-). Larger calibers certainly have their appeal, but shooting a precision 6.5CM or even a .308 at no more than 200 yards is like buying a Porsche to drive to the grocery store. I have a Tikka .223 Varmint in an MDT (Canadian company; they're great to deal with!) chassis which consistently gives me 1/2-MOA groups out to 300 yards with factory ammo.

Another approach to consider is rimfire in addition to whatever centerfire you choose. You will find a very passionate group here dedicated to the Vudoo V22 platform (kinda the ultimate tactical-format .22) as well as the much less expensive but still competent CZ 45x and Tikka T1X platforms. Rimfire is its own world with its own "rules" which arise from the fundamental limitations of the cartridge.

If you're already set up to handload .223, seems to me that's the most obvious place to start. Now you get to hear why different people are sure this or that factory rifle is "best" for the new shooter (for me, it's Tikka, period). O, and optics. Again, since you're range-limited, I personally see no reason to buy a top-tier scope at this point. I skimmed a lot of the preceding posts but I seem to recall mention of the gen-2 Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50. I have that scope on my Vudoo .22, and out to 300 yards (max range to which I regularly shoot .22), I see no practical difference between it and the gen-2 Vortex Razor 4.5-27x56 scope on my 6.5CM.

Enjoy the ride, and hang on tight to your wallet!

Hello DownhillFromHere, wow i just love all the great replies i am getting here, it exceeds my expectations although i knew i came at the right place for answers.

Funny you should mention the Tikka T3X TAC A1 and Lowlight's video since i watched it twice yesterday. i understood completely what he said except the part of the left hand twist having something to do with the northern hemisphere (lost me a little there but i'll look it up).

About the caliber choice, yeah i agree the logical choice would for me be the .223 Rem and i could go on with my load development, i hadn't considered barrel's life but you've got a good point for sure. Also very true getting an overbore caliber barrel would be quite overkill for my limited range.

I'm getting to know the MDT chassis more and more everyday and it was in fact my initial plan to put a Tikka T3X barreled action in one of them. But the looking at everything available out there i sort of got side tracked. Perhaps i should stick with my initial plan hey ?

At my range we also have a 22 lr league, it's a very select group which only shoot during their reserved time at the range. We seldom see them around, but they do seem to have a lot of fun together, competing in and out of the province in different matches. It is something i might consider along the way, but for the moment i take it one step at a time. The low cost of ammo is certainly very appealing but then again these guys all have super expensive rifles and scopes. So one day perhaps but not now for me ya know ?

As for the scope i went with the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24 x50. I does have more chromatic aberration at the very edges of the viewfinder and lacks any kind of reticle illumination but it was the logical choice for my limited range, besides we can not shoot later that 6 pm so reticle illumination was pointless. It costs less than half the price of it's PSTs big brother but does the job just fine as far as i can tell.
Many thank's for you input
 
I came of age in the Vietnam era (mid-'60s - mid-'70s). Things were very different then. My father was career Army. He was spit on when he came home. As a teenager, I was shot and seriously wounded by a momentarily-careless hunting partner; I was denied aid at a civilian hospital because I was a military dependent. I wonder if today's appreciation for military and LE grew out of that shameful period.
Oh my god that's painful to read, i mean getting shot Jesus ! You see although i understand what you are saying about the civilian hospital refusing you, here in Canada it is very hard for the average joe to grasp that concept. We have many problems in this country for sure, but we have free access to healthcare (which we pay through our income taxes so not really free at all). The system is not perfect far from it, the waiting time in emergency rooms is incredibly long but you always get proper treatment (sooner or later). About the Vietnam war, although i was just a kid (born in 1961) we could see some of it on the news. It's only much later in life well in my 20s that i realized the real scope of that war and the humongous price of human lives it has cost your country. To this day i can't watch a Vietnam movie, it's just too painful to see how war vets were not welcomed as heroes like they should have been. I know the views have changed on this over time and governments but from my part of the world it seemed like too little, too late. I hope you fully recovered from you injury, god bless.
 
Oh my god that's painful to read, i mean getting shot Jesus ! You see although i understand what you are saying about the civilian hospital refusing you, here in Canada it is very hard for the average joe to grasp that concept. We have many problems in this country for sure, but we have free access to healthcare (which we pay through our income taxes so not really free at all). The system is not perfect far from it, the waiting time in emergency rooms is incredibly long but you always get proper treatment (sooner or later). About the Vietnam war, although i was just a kid (born in 1961) we could see some of it on the news. It's only much later in life well in my 20s that i realized the real scope of that war and the humongous price of human lives it has cost your country. To this day i can't watch a Vietnam movie, it's just too painful to see how war vets were not welcomed as heroes like they should have been. I know the views have changed on this over time and governments but from my part of the world it seemed like too little, too late. I hope you fully recovered from you injury, god bless.


What everyone loses sight of, what the left here and everywhere wants to hide, is the human toll in Vietnam after the war was lost.

Still though countries need to fight their own internal conflicts.

Glad to help if they are willing to pack their own weight, many in VN were, but our politics keeps backing leaders with no moral compass other than one the reads "Me, Me, Me, Me" in all cardinal directions.
 
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What everyone loses sight of, what the left here and everywhere wants to hide, is the human toll in Vietnam after the war was lost.

Still though countries need to fight there own internal conflicts.

Glad to help if they are willing to pack there own weight, many in VN were, but our politics keeps backing leaders with no moral compass other than one the reads "Me, Me, Me, Me" in all cardinal directions.


TRUTH !!