Maggie’s And there goes private transfers...
- Thread starter DavidK
- Start date
Ist that ironic how the "rulers" were just talking about this not long ago.....and low and behold the shooter used this "loophole"
They got rid of private sales in NJ a couple of years ago.
Had zero impact on crime.
Only thing accomplished was adding $15 for a NICS check and $25 transfer fee to every sale.
Had zero impact on crime.
Only thing accomplished was adding $15 for a NICS check and $25 transfer fee to every sale.
That seems common. It seems that every time gun control is brought up in Congress, we have a mass shooting. Hmmm...
its only a matter of time until all transfers are through FFL's
just wait until reloading is a thing of the past
if the anti gunners had a clue reloading would be gone immediately
i can buy pounds and pounds of powder unchecked
just wait until reloading is a thing of the past
if the anti gunners had a clue reloading would be gone immediately
i can buy pounds and pounds of powder unchecked
That’s because gunpowder is NOT an explosive it’s classified as an accelerant......
Yeah, if they ever go after reloading I think you'd have a lot of people building separate sheds to stockpile powder and components.
Of course having a few hundred pounds of powder stored together in one place could lead to some interesting problems...
Seems like the common man knows that laws do not stop crimes, to bad the sheep can't seem to grasp that simple concept.
You must have forgotten, its not about stopping any crimes.
Private transfers arent going anywhere.
Background checks on private sales is common in many states. Yeah its annoying and an inconvenience but you can still do it.
Really Trump should be thinking about trying to barter for something gun owners actually want like reciprocity, constitutional carry, and hearing protection aka supressors or whatever.
Background checks on private sales is common in many states. Yeah its annoying and an inconvenience but you can still do it.
Really Trump should be thinking about trying to barter for something gun owners actually want like reciprocity, constitutional carry, and hearing protection aka supressors or whatever.
Trump made an announcement Monday about gun control and how he was working with both sides of the aisle in the house and senate to come up with a plan. He is throwing away the 2020 election.
I'd trade background checks on private sales for reciprocity and repeal of NFA.
Yeah, just saying if were going to get screwed at least give us the reach around so we get something out of it.
yup
No Cocaine in this country- can't buy it legally
no Prostitution in this country - can't buy it legally
etc
etc
etc
next will be a 30 min commercial safe to keep guns locked up at all times
No Cocaine in this country- can't buy it legally
no Prostitution in this country - can't buy it legally
etc
etc
etc
next will be a 30 min commercial safe to keep guns locked up at all times
Except as has been PROVEN with this president and this set of Republicans with the whole Bump Stock confiscation without compensation, and totally refusing to advance the hearing protection act, we will wind up getting NOTHING and our enemies (as well as the enemies of Trump and the Republicans) will get another win.
Trump and the Republicans are really that STUPID
I guess we'll see how it goes, but it looks like Trump is heading for a 1 term presidency.
I probably won't vote for him or the republicans if they do another big gun control BS and give us nothing.
Might as well get some political mileage out of it & show what happens to folks that backstab the folks that put them in power.
I'm not totally sure of it.
We had 8 years of a full on Communist leaning left wing president who pretty much got zero done on gun control & actually opened up bump stocks and pistol braces.
Our freedoms might actually be safer if the Republicans just have a slim majority in the senate and nothing else and feel rather desperate to stay in the club house. At least then they might take a break from the backstabbing.
If that's the case and we have a D president, what's to stop them from instituting gun control by fiat, just like Trump did with bumpstock?
I agree mostly. What we all hope for is mostly wishful thinking. I doubt we have many more wins in our column before the Boogaloo.
Hell I'd just about trade a national gun registry for the repeal of nfa, and national reciprocity.
I'm already on a couple "I own a gun" government lists. What's the worst that can happen with another one...they come for them and the fun can start. We can hit that hard reset button.
I'm already on a couple "I own a gun" government lists. What's the worst that can happen with another one...they come for them and the fun can start. We can hit that hard reset button.
Here is why your barter quote is ill informed. The reason that many folks at the top on the left want universal background checks is because it creates a de facto registration system. The only reason it doesn’t do so now is because the presence of private sales prevents the records from being considered accurate since you might have sold those guns to someone else.
Did you know that when you fill out a 4473 it must be retained by the FFL for 20 years or until cessation of business and then must be turned over to the ATF to be kept IN PERPETUITY. these forms contain make, model, serial number, and your DL number, address, name, social security number, physical description, etc.
That IS registration.
You sure that it had no impact on crime?
I’d bet that lots of folks committed crimes since, who otherwise would not have.
New laws make new criminals and new criminals amount to new funding for a very big industry.
It’s not just the blue haired lesbians who want to erode your rights. Politicians don’t care what those broke bitches want.
Ahhhh, you are aware of the firearm black market that exists in every major city in this country right? That law is worthless to keep the guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them as you so state. That law is designed to specifically keep and or reduce law abiding citizens from obtaining firearms themselves.
AZ is a free state where private sales are legal. I’ve only sold to people with CCW permits that I know were background checked, so I’m not arming anyone who can’t pass a background check. This current shooter is the first one I can recall who got their weapon through private sale, the timing is certainly suspect.
I wouldn’t care about a background check if there were some specific legislation preventing the Gov’t from creating a defacto registry. Allow the records on all sales to be retained by the dealer for a max of one year and then destroy or something. Unfortunately that is like letting the fox guard the henhouse and the data will be misused at some point.
We as a community need to do more public outreach. My wife and I always invite people to the range and give them an introduction, hopefully changing some minds. Today we were discussing taking people shooting and then taking them to the store and paying for a new AR lower that they fill out the 4473 on. This would put more AR platform rifles into the hands of more people, allowing more of them to have skin in the game to care about legislation affecting us and them. Maybe it’s a terrible idea, but we as a community need to do something.
The govt knowing that you have firearms is not the issue. Them knowing which ones, how many, and infringing my right to sell my personal property without their permission is the issue.
Only an accurate and reliable list is an effective tool for confiscation.
Only an accurate and reliable list is an effective tool for confiscation.
I wish they would just start printing a discreet mark on the back of the drivers license of all prohibited persons.
Then, when you want to buy a gun, whether from a dealer or a private citizen, show your DL and off you go. You wouldn’t even need a 4473 but I am sure the dealer would keep a private record of sale for a while for his own purposes anyway.
Then, when you want to buy a gun, whether from a dealer or a private citizen, show your DL and off you go. You wouldn’t even need a 4473 but I am sure the dealer would keep a private record of sale for a while for his own purposes anyway.
As a fellow resident of WA, and yes on the wet side of the state, I have to disagree with you. This law has not prevented the criminals from illegally obtaining firearms. Just look in the news every couple months and read about the local gun store having a truck driving through its front windows and grabbing 40-50 rifles and pistols in the middle of the night. You should see the staggering number of reported vehicle and residential burglaries that result in stolen firearms. I am in LE and talk to criminals every day that have zero respect for the laws they broke and all have multiple methods of obtaining drugs or firearms at a moments notice. They laugh about how easy it truly is. This law did not lower the amount of firearms from criminals whatsoever. We've always had laws on the books that have tried to enforce the same ideas.
I agree completely, but feel he could care less about any of that, that's why he isn't trying to bargain for any of it.
Its a paper file buried in a filing cabinet in the basement. Ever tried to track down proof you sold a firearm years later? Not so easy.
Paper file likely scanned, OCR'd and dropped into a database that they can sell to google or China. What good is information if you don't monetize it?/
Whatever helps keep their fingers off triggers AND PRESERVES OUR LIBERTY, I'm all for it.
FIFY
Actually, the ATF has had to be reprimanded several times for creating easily searchable firearms transaction databases which is an act that is a direct violation of very explicit law.
No one can stop or prevent private sales. Fantasy land right there.
Same applies to cocaine, heroine and murder. Please be sure to only go through the approved channels for those - you know, legality and all.
P.S.: Dear fucking criminals. Please remove all serialization and traceability from your tools. Thank you for your understanding.
Same applies to cocaine, heroine and murder. Please be sure to only go through the approved channels for those - you know, legality and all.
P.S.: Dear fucking criminals. Please remove all serialization and traceability from your tools. Thank you for your understanding.
I'm not shocked that we finally got a mass shooting that used a weapon which was privately transferred. I mean, we can't all sit here and say stuff like "criminals are going to get guns any way they can", and then act surprised when a nutcase who was rejected by NICS finds a work-around.
Is the timing suspicious? Certainly. But given the number of nutcases, and the number of private transfers, and the number of people who pull a trigger in anger each and every day, the odds were not exactly slim on this event occurring at any particular point in time. Instead of looking for conspiracy, blame those who exploit events like this to further their agenda. And also, some of those in favor of the 2nd Amendment might need a broader set of talking points than to repeatedly taunt that "you see, background checks don't work anyway!".
I don't know that those two parameters can be met simultaneously. The term "slippery slope" gets abused far too often, which is unfortunate because that's exactly what we're standing on whenever we talk about revoking someone's rights. Further complicating matters is the fact the mental health ain't exactly settled science.
While I am all for the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of those who are not mentally healthy (manage the person, not the hardware), the potential for abuse is quite frightening. Anti-gunners of any type could "weaponize" mental-health provisions even more easily than we throw around conspiracy and terrorism charges at any group of two or more people that act in a disagreeable manner. Talk to any pilot or truck driver that has gotten themselves medical'd out of a job, multiple that problem a thousandfold, and now we've got an idea of what it'd be like to have a dime dropped to the national mental health hotline by your doctor/pharmacist/neighbor/local LEO/disgrunted employee/ex-spouse or whomever you pissed off that particular morning.
Is the timing suspicious? Certainly. But given the number of nutcases, and the number of private transfers, and the number of people who pull a trigger in anger each and every day, the odds were not exactly slim on this event occurring at any particular point in time. Instead of looking for conspiracy, blame those who exploit events like this to further their agenda. And also, some of those in favor of the 2nd Amendment might need a broader set of talking points than to repeatedly taunt that "you see, background checks don't work anyway!".
I don't know that those two parameters can be met simultaneously. The term "slippery slope" gets abused far too often, which is unfortunate because that's exactly what we're standing on whenever we talk about revoking someone's rights. Further complicating matters is the fact the mental health ain't exactly settled science.
While I am all for the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of those who are not mentally healthy (manage the person, not the hardware), the potential for abuse is quite frightening. Anti-gunners of any type could "weaponize" mental-health provisions even more easily than we throw around conspiracy and terrorism charges at any group of two or more people that act in a disagreeable manner. Talk to any pilot or truck driver that has gotten themselves medical'd out of a job, multiple that problem a thousandfold, and now we've got an idea of what it'd be like to have a dime dropped to the national mental health hotline by your doctor/pharmacist/neighbor/local LEO/disgrunted employee/ex-spouse or whomever you pissed off that particular morning.
Yep. You are right. There is no perfect solution, however, I think I posed a pretty good one earlier in this thread that I think would go a really long way towards cleaning up the loopholes in our system and actually enhance liberty at the same time.
That said, whenever given a choice between increased regulation or liberty in a matter that is specifically governed by the phrase “shall not be infringed” it is our duty to choose the liberty, even if we feel a little less safe.
There is usually a third option that will get us 90% of the safety and all of the liberty if we look honestly and earnestly, but it seems all the leftists honest and earnestly want is control of you and me.
That said, whenever given a choice between increased regulation or liberty in a matter that is specifically governed by the phrase “shall not be infringed” it is our duty to choose the liberty, even if we feel a little less safe.
There is usually a third option that will get us 90% of the safety and all of the liberty if we look honestly and earnestly, but it seems all the leftists honest and earnestly want is control of you and me.
So the next one will have to be done with an 80% lower that "somebody" finished......
Anyone who is an advocate for any type or regulation, control, or tracking is an absolute idiot and an enemy of Freedom and Society.
Simply because, any "law" will ONLY be adhered to, recognized, or even noticed by LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. And that is the problem. Criminals DON'T FOLLOW/ADHERE TO/RESPECT the law. So they are going to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, with complete disregard, disdain, disrespect, and disinterest in/for any type of control or civility in any way.
The ONLY thing a law is going to do, is hamper a law abiding citizen. They are already NOT the problem to begin with, and yet you want to hamper them more, "for the good of the children"?????????
In what universe is this a good idea? I mean seriously, look to ANY of the other countries that have taken such measures already, and see if ANY of them have actually done any good. I mean 'historically',,,, has it actually worked? NO.
Not once,
Not ever,
Not anywhere.
Oh, but maybe, just maybe,,,, you are so delusional that "this time" it will work, because YOU say it so, and do so with a different voice, or use a different word, and then you'll change the world and direction of human development.
Yeah, I thought not. Please people, wake up, shake the sand out of your head and see the problem for what it truly is. I can't believe I had to say this, on this site.
Simply because, any "law" will ONLY be adhered to, recognized, or even noticed by LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. And that is the problem. Criminals DON'T FOLLOW/ADHERE TO/RESPECT the law. So they are going to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, with complete disregard, disdain, disrespect, and disinterest in/for any type of control or civility in any way.
The ONLY thing a law is going to do, is hamper a law abiding citizen. They are already NOT the problem to begin with, and yet you want to hamper them more, "for the good of the children"?????????
In what universe is this a good idea? I mean seriously, look to ANY of the other countries that have taken such measures already, and see if ANY of them have actually done any good. I mean 'historically',,,, has it actually worked? NO.
Not once,
Not ever,
Not anywhere.
Oh, but maybe, just maybe,,,, you are so delusional that "this time" it will work, because YOU say it so, and do so with a different voice, or use a different word, and then you'll change the world and direction of human development.
Yeah, I thought not. Please people, wake up, shake the sand out of your head and see the problem for what it truly is. I can't believe I had to say this, on this site.
I can't believe the number of fucking Quislings on this forum. Un-fucking-believable.
Since those that want new gun laws know very little about anything related to the subject, i propose a new law that states:
Anyone with a violent felony or misdemeanor, can not purchase a firearm.
All full automatic weapons are illegal unless possessed by an authorized person.
All sales between private individuals of differing states are required to process through an ATF licensed vendor and are subject to a NICS background check.
They'll be satisfied knowing SOMETHING was done to satiate their concerns/fears.
Or how about something on your government issued photo identification that indicates you are unable to own a firearm, like an organ donor but different. All photo identification might have to be updated more frequently, but the infringed usually have their identification confiscated at the time of their arrest. The "mentally questionable persons" are still a tangent that will be reliant upon those within their daily lives.
This process could also be subjected to a vouch by reference.
Anyone with a violent felony or misdemeanor, can not purchase a firearm.
All full automatic weapons are illegal unless possessed by an authorized person.
All sales between private individuals of differing states are required to process through an ATF licensed vendor and are subject to a NICS background check.
They'll be satisfied knowing SOMETHING was done to satiate their concerns/fears.
Or how about something on your government issued photo identification that indicates you are unable to own a firearm, like an organ donor but different. All photo identification might have to be updated more frequently, but the infringed usually have their identification confiscated at the time of their arrest. The "mentally questionable persons" are still a tangent that will be reliant upon those within their daily lives.
This process could also be subjected to a vouch by reference.
This is nonsense. You need to read the twitter war between Ocrazio and Dan Crenshaw. This type of law can turn family members into felons. But hey, who cares about constitutional rights if you can sleep at night knowing the peons are appeased...
Sounds pretty good right up til you somehow find yourself on the wrong end of an anonymous phone call reporting that you have firearms and lose them without any kind of due process. Please, use your mind to think 3 steps ahead. These people are not interested in protecting you or any other constituent.
I'll say it one more time for the slow, the Second Amendment is the only thing keeping the Bill of Rights in place at this exact point in time!
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