What NOT to do during and after a defensive shooting.

[Blue Sky Country]

From the details available at the moment, it looks like it started off as a good shoot. However, the victim made a series of bad decisions after that and is now facing a murder charge...

Dallas man accused of fatally shooting burglar and going back to bed before calling 911

A Dallas man is accused of fatally shooting a burglar outside his Old East Dallas home Thursday and going back to bed before calling police nearly...

www.dallasnews.com

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A Dallas man is accused of fatally shooting a burglar outside his Old East Dallas home Thursday and going back to bed before calling police nearly two hours later.

James Michael Meyer, 72, has been charged with murder. He was in the Dallas County Jail in lieu of $150,000 bail Friday evening.

According to an arrest warrant affidavit, officers were dispatched at 7:04 a.m. on a home invasion call in the 5400 block of Philip Avenue, near Interstate 30 and Grand Avenue, where they found the body of an unknown male face down in a park behind the home.

Dallas-Fire Rescue workers noted that blood on the body was dry and eventually determined that the person had been dead for some time.

Meyer told police that he had been awakened about 5 a.m. by noise outside and saw someone trying to break into his storage shed with a pickax when he looked through the window, the affidavit said.

Meyer said he grabbed his handgun and chambered a round, then came out of his home yelling at the person to stop what he was doing and not come any closer or else he'd shoot.

Instead, he told police, the person took several steps toward him, so he fired his gun, according to the affidavit.

At that point, the burglar dropped the pickax and ran toward the park.

Meyer said he fired an additional shot "into the night" in the direction of the park, even though "from the suspect's accounts, the threat of serious bodily injury against him was over when the complainant dropped the pickax and ran off," the affidavit said.


Meyer said he didn't know whether he had struck the person, so he went back to bed.

As the sun began to rise, Meyer again looked outside and saw "a black bag" in the park. Upon closer inspection, he found the individual lying face down in the park.

Meyer's wife called an attorney for advice before Meyer called 911, the affidavit said.

According to the affidavit, he refused to answer the dispatcher's questions, saying repeatedly that he was the victim of a crime and that medical assistance was needed.

When investigators couldn't find any spent shell casings, Meyer told them he had thrown them in the trash.

Neighbors told investigators that they'd heard three gunshots about 5:15 a.m., contradicting Meyer's account of the number of shots fired.
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What had been a perfectly good shoot is now a murder charge.

All right. Now let's see where he fucked up...

1. When the threat has been neutralized, STOP SHOOTING. This guy did not only fuck that part up, he decided to fire blindly into the darkness in "the direction of the park". Way to go, Einstein.

2. If you are going to alert the police, DO SO ASAP after the threat has been neutralized.

3. You live in an urban area. There are witnesses. Make sure your story fits the bill if and when you decide to open up to investigators.

4. When has tampering with evidence at a hot crime scene ever been a smart idea?

5. Last but not least... KEEP YOUR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT. There is a time for talking. When you don't have legal guidance and are not yet in a state of mind where you can remain in control of the situation, DON'T do it. Don't think you can talk your way down from whatever level of fucked up you are in. It ain't gonna happen. You will only tie the noose that you will hang yourself with. Remember, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that you say WILL be used against you. They will look for ways to do it. That is their job and what they are paid to do.

 

[Blutroop]

K.i.s.s.

 

[Odindad]

I thought it was legal to use deadly force against theft after dark in Texas. I remember some guy got off for shooting a prostitute who refused to perform and kept the money. I believe it goes back to horse and cattle rustling. It has to be after dark, though.

 

[Blutroop]

I thought it was legal to use deadly force against theft after dark in Texas. I remember some guy got off for shooting a prostitute who refused to perform and kept the money. I believe it goes back to horse and cattle rustling. It has to be after dark, though.

That is correct.

 

[Blutroop]

That’s a prime example why you need to know what to say to. He told cops he fired a additional shot after the guy ran.. he shoulda said something like I shot in the direction of the threat with something in his hands and continued firing until I lost sight of it in the dark.

 

[MtnCreek]

Diarrhea of the mouth.

 

[candyx]

He must of had expensive lawn tools in that shed to blast the dude.

 

[EddieNFL]

From what I read, he didn't kill him over a weed wacker. He shot him because he attacked with a pickax. Up to that point, he's golden.

 

[Spblademaker]

“Everything you say can and WILL BE USED AGAINT you.” Talk to your lawyer, not police, first.

 

[supercorndogs]

"Kill someone for an inanimate object." I feel that is gross mischaracterization.

He was removed from society by his own doing, the man with so little regard for his fellow man, he will destroy property and attack someone to take what is not his.

72 year old man, getting robbed, now getting railroaded.

Robber killed on his first ever attempt at a B an E.

I wonder if he killed anyone robbing them, the times he did not get caught.

 

[supercorndogs]

"Snatched defeat from the laws of victory."

Nope, railroaded by stupid technicalities and people who are willing to prosecute him for them. I for one truly and honestly don't care that he did and said any of those "stupid" things, and don't think they should warrant a murder charge.

He should have called the police right away. Oh well. Give him a stern warning, next time you shoot at someone who runs away into the darkness, call the police right away. Done.

He didn't know if the guy ran off to gain cover, pull his gun, and return fire. That shot into the darkness could have prevented that.
{Just as stupid of a concept, as saying a couple wrong phrases changes self defense to murder.}

I wouldn't have done most of the things old man did. I would have called 911, grabbed a rifle and watched the robber through the window.

 

[MtnCreek]

One man can't control what the law is but he can control his own actions. Right and wrong don't mean shit in our judicial system. He screwed himself with his own words.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Part of the problem is that the person unfortunately lives in the Communist controlled city of Dallas where Criminals are what the DA and city government love.

The DA and local politicians don't like the hoi poi taking out their voting base unless they are one of their "elite" buddies.

It also sounds like a really stupid attorney if he didn't tell them to say the bare minimum of facts and nothing else.

My guess is if they get a decent lawyer they will probably win at trial on appeal.

Dallas is the kind of place where if you see somebody about to do a mass shooting, you almost have to let them kill a couple folks first before you shoot them or the DA is going to be trying to press murder charges on you.

 

[supercorndogs]

Well, we all have personal beliefs and thoughts on what we believe right and wrong are. Problem is that our personal beliefs are meaningless in the face of statutory law.

For example, Personally I hold the same personal view as you stated so there will not be a critique from me on your beliefs.

That being said- the law is the law and that's what the state of Texas has legislated and passed.

Those "technicalities" you reference are there for a reason and are necessary to prevent worse situations.

They are there to protect criminals. They are little freedom stealing things that have been sold to us like snake oil, what if, what if, what if. Their necessity is debatable. Society isn't any safer with this man in jail.

 

[Alabusa]

He will do serious time for shooting when there was no threat. At least the perp wont be preying on anyone else.

 

[candyx]

Dude ran into the park and died, why report it .

 

[Centerfire01]

I can totally understand why the guy did what he did. I personally would not have chosen that course of action, but the average gun owner would have done even less. Feel sorry for the guy being in a world of World of hurt currently.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Hard to believe someone would discharge a firearm in what appeared to be self defense and then go back to bed without calling the Police. I guess nothing surprises me anymore now.

VooDoo

 

[candyx]

Hard to believe someone would discharge a firearm in what appeared to be self defense and then go back to bed without calling the Police. I guess nothing surprises me anymore now.

VooDoo

One of our local Range Officers who was in the Special Forces told us best weapon for home defense was a shotgun with bird shot. Take shot lower stomach which he said would drop anyone then call Law Enforcement after perp bleeds outs.

 

[MtnCreek]

One of our local Range Officers who was in the Special Forces told us best weapon for home defense was a shotgun with bird shot. Take shot lower stomach which he said would drop anyone then call Law Enforcement after perp bleeds outs.

By special forces, I assume you mean the shortbus type.

 

[candyx]

Owner of the range said he was legit and he didn't look like he needed a weapon to neutralize anyone.

 

[MtnCreek]

Owner of the range said he was legit and he didn't look like he needed a weapon to neutralize anyone.

I had a guy tell me my high cal sales mk12 mod 1 upper on mostly spec built lower was a pos civilian rifle and nowhere near the quality of his issued m4. He was in the Army and therefore an expert.

The idea that birdshot to the stomach is the way to go is retarded.

 

[oneshot86]

yep

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

As is gutshooting a perp and leaving him to bleed out before calling the police. Where does this stupid shit come from?

VooDoo

 

[Centerfire01]

One of our local Range Officers who was in the Special Forces told us best weapon for home defense was a shotgun with bird shot. Take shot lower stomach which he said would drop anyone then call Law Enforcement after perp bleeds outs.

If the dude talks about his time in SF, he was an enabler.

 

[MadDuner]

I am having trouble with the idea that an Adrenalin surge during the shooting would allow anybody to go back to bed. The policing the brass and statement of firing into the dark - then waiting until it was light out before calling LEO are all working against the guy. More than likely - he was hoping the guy made it farther away before expiring, and hoped for no witnesses. The poor old guy made some poor decisions for sure.

I will freely admit that it’s only too easy to armchair quarterback after the fact also.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Maybe it's because I'm city born and raised but round here if shots are fired, the cops get called asap. One does not just say " oh well" and go back to bed.

VooDoo

 

[MadDuner]

Maybe it's because I'm city born and raised but round here if shots are fired, the cops get called asap. One does not just say " oh well" and go back to bed.

VooDoo

In some cities - gunshots are all too common of an occurrence for people to bother phoning them in.

 

[Blutroop]

Guy is 72 years old. When he was a kid cops would see you drunk and give you a ride home. This was likely the first time he shot anyone. He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed but it seems simple to me he didn’t know his third shot actually hit the guy. Coulda been using a revolver too. I’ve lived in areas were I wouldn’t call cops just because I’d had a justified shooting. Not all cops but all big cities like Dallas and Houston have bad eggs. In some of the places I’ve lived when you call the cops they give you a hard time because they actually have to work instead of addressing the one that has broken a law. The guy was right and legal till he opened his mouth. He either should have been a better shot or shoulda stopped when the guy disappeared into darkness. It matters not if he even has anything in that shed per Texas law. The criminal was trespassing at night. I’m curious to see how the trial plays out and how many times the guy was shot. And all this in the same city that cop shot a man in his apartment? Dallas has always been a shithole but..

 

[MtnCreek]

As is gutshooting a perp and leaving him to bleed out before calling the police. Where does this stupid shit come from?

VooDoo

When I was a kid the sheriff came to talk to my parents after a couple of house break ins in the area. He told my dad that if he shot someone breaking in the house and they made it back outside, it would look better if he drug them back in. I didn't understand how stupid that statement was till many years later.

Btw, on hearing gunfire at home, son just put 8 mags through a fns9c, 3 mags through an ar and helped me shoot about 10 mags through a 1911. Almost forgot, he shot 11 expensive rds of 45 through a g30 too. Still no cops. Lol.

 

[Zeroit]

When I was a kid the sheriff came to talk to my parents after a couple of house break ins in the area. He told my dad that if he shot someone breaking in the house and they made it back outside, it would look better if he drug them back in. I didn't understand how stupid that statement was till many years later.

Btw, on hearing gunfire at home, son just put 8 mags through a fns9c, 3 mags through an ar and helped me shoot about 10 mags through a 1911. Almost forgot, he shot 11 expensive rds of 45 through a g30 too. Still no cops. Lol.

Where I live and hear gunfire it's considered the sound of freedom any time of day or night. If I called 911 every time I heard that I would have been banned from 911 a long time ago. I have worked in some pretty rough areas in the city at all hours different situation still gunfire is quite common.

 

[TheGerman]

So he shot some dude and then went back to bed?

Gangster.

 

[Blutroop]

Yeah, I'm there with you but I believe you would agree that if a crime was committed and it was you who fired aimed shots at an alleged perp that its a different level of requirement to report than just responding to random pops in the night.

Wouldn't you?

It is yet to be determined wether or not a crime has been committed.

 

[Zeroit]

Yeah, I'm there with you but I believe you would agree that if a crime was committed and it was you who fired aimed shots at an alleged perp that its a different level of requirement to report than just responding to random pops in the night.

Wouldn't you?

Absolutely. Those random pops and some fully automatic fire also ward off some nefarious activities the hard core badguys are fully aware the the area is armed and support our police officers rare but shit happens. Go 5 miles from here totally different world . Daily they try to wear out the cops and firefighters and do a fine job of it.

 

[Blutroop]

Technically correct, all we can go on is the information in the media but I doubt they made up the story, planted the bag and all that so for the moment its a safe assumption ( but not as a finding of fact by a trier of fact) that the victim was shot in commission of a crime as reported.

Now if his name was Trump I would consider that the media made everything up and the victim was Arkancided to add effect.

So the dead guy was actually in a trash bag? I read it as the 72 year old looked out and saw a black object like a trash bag in the daylight.

 

[Blutroop]

Absolutely. Those random pops and some fully automatic fire also ward off some nefarious activities the hard core badguys are fully aware the the area is armed and support our police officers rare but shit happens. Go 5 miles from here totally different world . Daily they try to wear out the cops and firefighters and do a fine job of it.

I can still remember all the full auto gunfire on New Years in Houston..

 

[Blue Sky Country]

One of our local Range Officers who was in the Special Forces told us best weapon for home defense was a shotgun with bird shot. Take shot lower stomach which he said would drop anyone then call Law Enforcement after perp bleeds outs.

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...told us best weapon for home defense was a shotgun with bird shot.
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Wow. Simply just wow...

 

[powdahound76]

On the topic of birdshot.

It does not work!
I have personally witnessed it’s (bird shot, 7 and 8) failures at killing people at very close range, out of a hunting shotgun, in areas much more likely to “bleed em out”.

Neck? Yep
Femoral artery in groin (closest it is to surface)? Yep
Sick, yes. Almost dead? Not at all and would not have died from blood loss.

If you want to kill effectively with a shotgun, get buck shot or slugs.


As for the subject at hand, many poor choices in a row it would seem. Or so the media would tell the story......

 

[TACC]

The other thing is the guy is 72 years old, he may not really care if they come get him, in his mindset, he took care of business.

 

[wade2big]

He must of had expensive lawn tools in that shed to blast the dude.

I think the crook was stupid for dying over a weed eater.

 

[wade2big]

He will do serious time for shooting when there was no threat. At least the perp wont be preying on anyone else.

A man should legally be able to pursue a thief until the thief is dead. Only then is he not a threat. These laws need to be changed. I do not like laws that protect criminals and that criminalize the victim.

 

[Snuby642]

I hope the old home owner gets off.

Thief / asailant got what they deserved.

Probably did not know if asailant was hit or not.
If asailant ran off into the darkness figured was not hit and did not want to deal with dpd.

Good thing he had a clear backdrop.

I say no harm no foul and would let him walk if on his jury.

 

[wade2big]

Think about that for a minute.

Where would that end?

I was exaggerating a bit with that statement. My point is that as long as a man commits a crime while he is backing up, the law protects him. These insane laws are helping to break down society as well. Think about your statement a bit as well. Where would that end and where has it gotten us so far?

 

[DukeGSP]

the guy is 72.... he was wakened by a intruder. he got his gun and went outside to confront the guy. the homeowner told him to stop and don't come any closer. the dude decided he was going to gamble with God's fate and well we all know how the story ends. should he have blindly shot into the dark? probably not, but at the same time who on here has been put into that kind of situation where your thought process stayed normal throughout the entire event? i'll wait....

he's 72, more than likely never pointed a gun at anyone. he had to protect his property and his wife. let's say the guy missed, that dude would probably come back a little more prepared and with a different motive next time. you try sleeping with that on your mind. I'm honestly glad to hear the guy didn't make it, he woke up and made that decision to do what he did and he got the ultimate punishment. I don't see the homeowner doing any time. I believe there will be a trial of some sort but, you can't sit here and tell me just because the man went to bed for a couple of hours that that makes him a murderer. is he wrong? maybe, but I don't believe he's a murderer.

change my mind.

 

[DukeGSP]

OK, I've been on the trigger end both in a theft scenario and execution of duty. I would love to hear your ( or anyone's for that matter) justification for firing wildly in the dark with target ( and possible friendlies) presence and locations unknown. That's the kind of conduct that should be banned. That's the kind of conduct liberals use to paint all of us with the "bubba brush". Its also one of the reasons they are winning the battle of hearts and minds at the moment.

What "could be done"? oh, you mean red flag laws? I guess than answers where you stand on them because if its a "just consideration" in one instance, its good for all of them. What "may" happen jurisprudence is dangerous.

In this case the difference between him being a "murderer" versus a "justified homicide" is going to rest with the specific Texas statute and this guys conduct accordingly. That has yet to occur nor have all salient facts been revealed. That's the job for a jury and based on the media account AND HIS OWN STATEMENT he has violated portions of the law.

So, lets get the facts and see what the trial results are before we get too deep defending ( or prosecuting) him in spite of the fact that what's been revealed so far paints a picture close to murder ( as defined in Texas statute)

Personally I don't believe he should be convicted of murder either and I'm in the camp that the perp got what he deserved but the guys actions don't qualify for an NRA safety award nor does he deserve a commendation. That said, his actions do appear actionable based on the media account.

I agree. but I never said I agreed with him on firing blindly into the "dark area" but I don't believe that should be one of the deciding factors on if this man does time or not. I don't know what it's like to be on the trigger end of a situation or on the other end. I would like to sit here and think that I would be clear minded and make the right call but I can't lie and say I know I would 100%. I honestly don't think anyone can until the situation happens. it's not something you can MENTALLY prepare for. I think this particular situation would be the one I would want to deal with if I ever had to deal with pulling a trigger. I believe I would have the short time to think about what I'm prepared to do while heading outside to confront the perp.

waking up in the dead of night to someone at the foot of my bed or in my house is something different. but you also have to take in consideration of this man's age and his ability to physically protect his self. I don't know of many older gentleman who will square up with someone (I'm assuming ) at least half his age. I'm not saying this 72 yr old man is a town hero and deserves the key to the city but he by law, protected his property and wife.

the media is the one telling the story right now, we don't know the 100% truth of what happened. who gets to decide how threaten someone feels or doesn't feel to justify shooting in self defense? I'm sure what threatens me at 31 is different for someone older. there's a lot of things that we have to factor in. it's a shitty situation for both.

but yet, the media is glorifying the shooter.... forget the fact that this guy was 200% in the wrong and breaking the law. the media just highlights the shooter... lets not hold the dead guy accountable at all.

 

[DukeGSP]

OK, first the media is going to do what the media does and nothing you or I want is going to change that.

Based on the media account ( we both acknowledge the accuracy and completeness is probably lacking as well as a deliberate slant)

The charge of "murder" isn't based on the initial act of attempted breaking/entering and when he popped him first. ( seems like that was fine)

The onus appears to be that 2nd shot ( where even the old man admitted he was running away and no longer a threat) is the issue ( not reporting a crime is a crime itself but its not "murder" under the statute EXCEPT when it can be legitimately argued that by depriving medical attention was a direct contributor to a would which may not have inherently been fatal)

Both of those are "fine points" I agree and highly arguable but both apply in this case based on the accounts in the media.

yes sir, and I agree with everything you say. was the second shot necessary? in our minds, no. but which way did he run? what if the guy had to run towards him to get out of a gate? we don't know. I think we're ALL judging too quickly (as agreed on already)

lets say the perp didn't die? what would've the cops done then when he called them two hours later?

 

[Blutroop]

Think about that for a minute.

Where would that end?

With very few thieves

 

[MtnCreek]

...I would love to hear your ( or anyone's for that matter) justification for firing wildly in the dark with target ( and possible friendlies) presence and locations unknown...

Recon by fire.

 

[MtnCreek]

On the topic of birdshot.

It does not work!
I have personally witnessed it’s (bird shot, 7 and 8) failures at killing people at very close range, out of a hunting shotgun, in areas much more likely to “bleed em out”.

Neck? Yep
Femoral artery in groin (closest it is to surface)? Yep
Sick, yes. Almost dead? Not at all and would not have died from blood loss.

If you want to kill effectively with a shotgun, get buck shot or slugs.


As for the subject at hand, many poor choices in a row it would seem. Or so the media would tell the story......

I've rung enough necks to know sometimes it's lacking for birds too.

 

[Blutroop]

the Guy should not have fired blindly into the dark. There is something missing from this story though. Was the dead guy on top of a pick axe or was it laying in the yard? It would be interesting that a guy could possibly miss two closer shots then fire a third “in the general direction” that proves to be a kill shot. We need more info before we continue to armchair quarterback this event. I’ve been both shooter and shot at. I’ve assisted cops and been at gunpoint from them and we shouldn’t be reading to much into a 72 year old that didn’t call cops until we know more. I can see lots of explanations but there is to little info right now.