New loader needs help....

[EliMcBee]

Ok I am very new to reloading so I found a guy that reloads for a living ( don't know if he is more of a mass reloader or precision reloader) to show me the ropes. We built 100 rounds and checked them all out.

1. Seating primers. Is there a quality tool to seat primers the same every time? Does it matter if the primers are set exactly the same? If they are not the same what is a expectable difference?
2. Does moisture in the air cause any problems? He would leave the lid off of his powder thrower when not in use. Will the powder suck up moisture and effect any thing.
3. Is it a no-no to touch primers by hand? Do the oils from your finger do any thing?
4. When throwing powder some times it would over throw. He would simply reach in the tray by hand a pull out a small amount of powder and throw it back in the thrower until he had the correct charge. Is it ok to touch the powder?
5. After we had 100 rounds loaded we checked them all. We have 75% that were the same. We then separated them all out to length and went back to the press. If they were 2 thou long I set the dies down 2 thou and repressed to get the correct length. If they were 4 thou we set down 4 thou and repressed until we had them all the same. Is this the correct way to do it? Why are we getting different seating depths? Is it a difference in the bullets ( using 6.5 143 ELDX's) or is it a press issue?
6. Do you have to turn on your powder dispenser and let it warm up for 15 minutes? He had several RCBS Load Masters we were using. He did not think it needed to warm up so we simply turned on a ran with it. What about wind? We were in a open shop with the door open.
7. While running the press most every round had the same feel but we had a few that went in with almost no effort. He set those few aside and called them range rounds. Why does this happen?
7. This was all new ADG brass so I am sure I will have a done more questions when we get to the resizing dies, but we can leave that for a later date.

 

[KTAK]

Sadly I would say to find a new "teacher", so many things just not right.... mass reloader would be the best description as there is nothing precision about his process based on your questions... Get some books and start reading, you will learn a lot more than from this guy.

 

[ShtrRdy]

It sounds like you have a better idea of what to look out for than your reloader friend.

Now that you have a basic idea of what needs to be done do some more reading here and ask question if you can't find any answers to your question.

I'll try to answer some of your questions
#1 - the ench test guys like to seat primers by hand. Check out this sort of tool at Sinclair.com
#2 - I think moisture may have an affect on powder but I ha e been a le to prove it to myself. Most people do what your friend is doing.
#3 - it's generally okay to touch the primer but I try to limit that action when ppssible.
#4 - same answer as #3.
#5 - I disagree with this approach. It is better to strive for a common Cartridge Base to Ogive, CBTO, measurement.
#6 - yes, it is important to turn on an electronic scale and let it stabilize. Some people leave their electronic scales turned on all the time.
#7 - there are several possibilities for this to happen. A question for a separate discussion.
#8 - one thing regarding new brass is the optimum load will be different than for once fired brass.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I use a frankford hand primer. You can set the depth with and adjustable wheel and it gets em close enough that I cant really measure the difference. The important thing is to get the set deep enough.

I cover my powder thrower with the cap and then put towels over it to keep dust and shit from getting on it, i do that with all my equipment.

3&4... I use nitrile gloves when reloading and handling my brass. I don't like the idea of my skin oils getting on powder or the cartridge and degrading it. Non powdered nitrile gloves keep my grubby hands from contaminating anything. I grab powder out with tweezers usually.

5... I use a bullet comparator and measure every round with my calipers

6. No comment, I use a beam scale

7 differences in seating feel means your neck tension is not consistent. I run new brass through a full length sizer.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Yeah, I guess I'm not impressed by your friend's workflow as you describe.

You're asking good questions, but it would help to know what setup you are using as you begin your learning process. Progressive presses and cheap digital stuff increases effort to achieve consistency - not to mention inexperience.

I've been reloading shotgun, rifle, and handgun ammunition for over 50 years. I jumped down the precision rifle rabbit hole a bit over two years ago and started precision rifle cartridge handloading earlier this year. There is a big difference in slamming out 9mm or .223 loads for bangbangbangbangbang shooting or hunting rounds for 100-200 yards versus carefully-crafted cartridges capable of maximizing a fine rifle's accuracy. My previous rifle reloading experience was helpful in getting started with the precision arena, but I found out there's always more to learn.

My $0.02 regarding some of your questions:

• I've never felt it necessary to use a separate priming tool. You develop a good feel for what the primer seating punch is doing... if it's too hard to seat, or too easy, you feel it, and you also feel whether the seating depth is right with a little practice.
• I don't touch the open cup of primers (I try not to touch them at all).
• I dang sure don't put fingers on powder. Ever.
• I keep powders sealed in their original containers. I don't leave it in a measure hopper more than a day or two and the hopper cap is in place all the time. Does it matter? Don't know. That's what I've done for half a century and it seems sensible to me.
• Keeping powder sealed mitigates potential moisture absorption. I store components and do my loading in temperature-controlled environments so humidity has never been a "thing" for me personally.
• I have no experience with Chargemasters or other automated measuring devices, but I do have a good scale (A&D FX-120i) and a certified check weight for that scale. There is lots of good discussion/advice about scales and measuring approaches here. Fwiw, I can weigh a charge on my old RCBS/Ohaus beam scale and easily be within 0.05-0.08 grain when I check it on the FX-120i scale.
• Wrt to your question about effects of moving air on a scale - yes, it matters with a good digital scale. My scale, accurate to 0.02 grain or one small kernel of extruded powder, moves as much as 0.2 grains if I don't have the hood on the scale and the A/C comes on - the vent is directly above the scale, and I can SEE the numbers change on the scale as I feel the cool air move. Similarly, I see the display bounce around as much as 0.06-0.08 grains if the clothes washer or dryer are running at the other end of the house, even though I can't feel the vibration. In absence of these disturbances, the scale is rock-solid with zero drift.
• Bullet seating effort varies with neck consistency and prep. If you use a bushing size die and trim.chamfer case neck, you'll find more consistent seating effort - but there will still be some variance.

This handloading thing is a rabbit hole into a wonderland of pleasure and pain. There will be both. And there will be weird creatures with guns there. Enjoy the ride and understand there is a learning curve that lasts for years.

 

[EliMcBee]

Tools so far
1. Frankford press
2. Whidden dies
3. Frankford Platium tumbler
4. 21st century hand primer (just ordered)
5. RCBS Chargemaster lite
6. digital calipers

 

[KTAK]

Tools so far
1. Frankford press
2. Whidden dies
3. Frankford Platium tumbler
4. 21st century hand primer (just ordered)
5. RCBS Chargemaster lite
6. digital calipers

Cam lock bullet puller or similar... extremely handy and ensures you can use that bullet again after pulling it.... Hammer pullers are a pain in the arse

 

[antithesis]

Cam lock bullet puller or similar... extremely handy and ensures you can use that bullet again after pulling it.... Hammer pullers are a pain in the arse

Personal preference thing. My preference is 180 from yours. Hammer puller with a little foam in the nose to keep the bullet from hitting the plastic FTW.

 

[Crabcore]

I'm going to go ahead and agree with most of the posters above. I don't think your friend has a good grasp on the type of reloading you are trying to do.

I think one thing you can do which will really show if this is all working or not, is to go shoot the rounds over a chronograph. If your process was good, your numbers should be as well. Obviously the next thing is if the ammo shoots well or not. Those two things will give you the best feedback. Everyone loads a little differently, but we all want the same result. You need to find a process that works for you, in the end.

As to your questions:

• I seat primers with a Lee hand priming tool. Fast, cheap, lets you feel if your primer pockets loosened up. There are obviously "nicer" ones available. I find it fiddly to load on my press. ymmv
• i would avoid exposing your powder to moisture as much as you can. I drain my powder hoppers back into my powder jug when i am done.
• you should not really be hanlding primers. you will inevitably drop one here or there, or need to flip one over, but beyond that why would you need to handle them? if you have a press where you seat them one at a time, i would find a faster method to seat them.
• I do scrape a few kernels of powder out of my trays if i have an overthrow. I have 2 chargemasters, and this only occurs maybe 5 charges out of 100. Sometimes i just toss it back in and let it go through the whole dispense cycle again. Not sure if this is good or bad.
• That seems like an excessive amount of pointless measuring to me. I have my stuff set and leave it. If I make a change I will measure the first 5 or so to make sure i am dialed in. OAL length doesn't matter. Go measure some of your bullets. You will see a few thou variation. Base to Ogive is what matters. This is what you should be measuring when you measure your chamber to figure out your seating depth. Keep in mind if you shoot a hot cartridge, you can burn a few thousandths out of your throat in 100 rounds. A good load will not be affected by this.
• I always turn on my powder measures a few hours before i load, or in the morning when i go to work. Takes no time or effort, so i figure why not?
• I would not use a chargemaster where there is much if any air movement. I turn off my AC when i load because the vent is very close to where my chargemasters sit and it does affect them when the air kicks on. One thing I do recommend is have them plugged into a power strip that conditions the power going into them.
• I would wager your seating effort had variation because the brass was brand new. I run virgin brass through my resize die, but only far enough for the expander to go through the necks; i don't actually resize the case. After the first firing, and first full resize, they should all feel the same. After 5 to 7 firings you may notice more variation if you don't anneal because the necks will work harden a little bit each firing.

Like i said, go shoot the rounds you made. If you are happy you can experiment with removing steps you find tedious or too time consuming and see how that changes your results down range. Eventually you will find a happy equilibrium.

If those rounds totally suck and don't shoot, the hide can probably get you squared away

 

[EliMcBee]

My shop is building the new reloading bench( we might have got a little carried away with this) I should be up and running soon.

 

[Bertoli888]

21 Century hand primers is excellent for small batches.