What could savage change?
- Thread starter Jackomason
- Start date
I own quite a few savages, I don't compete so I cant comment on that aspect of the rifles.
The factory stock savage magazines are terrible, that is something the average hunter/shooter
will be affected by. They just don't fit, latch or stay secured with a damn.
I have a couple factory blue printed savage actions and they seem to be"tighter" and smoother than my other over the counter savages.
I have had my first issue with the dreaded savage extraction issue, it is back at savage for repairs.
What could they do? Make it as silky smooth as my 40 year old WIN 70 LA.
The factory stock savage magazines are terrible, that is something the average hunter/shooter
will be affected by. They just don't fit, latch or stay secured with a damn.
I have a couple factory blue printed savage actions and they seem to be"tighter" and smoother than my other over the counter savages.
I have had my first issue with the dreaded savage extraction issue, it is back at savage for repairs.
What could they do? Make it as silky smooth as my 40 year old WIN 70 LA.
So tighten up the race ways and DLC it? That might not be a bad idea.
I've gotta say, the savage I have for my wife (she shoots maybe once a year) works fine-ish but my biggest dislike is split between overall fit and finish or just the ugly submarine looking action. But I got it for $219...
Maybe a new bolt head, integrated or pinned 20MOA rail, DLC the whole thing and find a way to make a trigger that is more user friendly like with a actual housing. That's a lot to ask...
Yep buy a Tikka instead the Remington 5R's barrels run 100 FPS slower than everything else.
That is true. The 5R barrel runs slower. I had one on a Remington 700 in 260 and could not get close to published reloading data. I know its hard to get to the published data but it was much slower than expected.Yep buy a Tikka instead the Remington 5R's barrels run 100 FPS slower than everything else.
Yep Tikka barrels are well known to be 100 FPS faster than everything even a custom or an AI.
Absolutely a mass produced factory rifle. Lower numbers, but absolutely mass produced.
Fuck it Ill say it. Savages are UGLY. They will always be in the back of the pack because no one wants to show up with the ugly chic.
They have some good parts but the Action and bolt fell off the barricade and hit every rung on the way down before being stomped on with a boot.
As for a fix. Change the bolt shroud and bolt handle/knob to be more easy on the eyes.
They have some good parts but the Action and bolt fell off the barricade and hit every rung on the way down before being stomped on with a boot.
As for a fix. Change the bolt shroud and bolt handle/knob to be more easy on the eyes.
Honestly, if they would redesign the extractor and execute it better, add dual ejectors with better execution and stronger springs they would be leaps and bounds ahead. Also, if they would reprogram the cutting program for the cocking ramp and the notch at the top it could be a very smooth action.
I've gotten pretty serious about shooting matches lately, so I just put a TL3 in a Bravo, but I have been running a Savage for the last two years in Border Wars matches. Once I got everything squared away it was a reliable and smooth action. It needs a good trigger option with a redesigned sear.
Really, the only thing holding me back gun wise was the trigger and the ergonomics of the HSP stock I was shooting. The rest was trigger time and experience. My bighorn is breaking in nicely, but when it was new, the worn in Savage was smoother.
On the Savage, I had to replace the detent for the extractor and have dual ejectors installed to get it to run. I also had to tune the lengths of the dual ejectors and run a 110ba spring in the bottom one and a regular ejector spring in the top one. To smooth out the action I polished all the bolt internals, reduced the depth of the cocking notch at the top of the ramp, and set the firing pin fall to .250". I also installed a bolt lift kit. It probably has around 15,000 cycles on it between dry firing and shooting.
I was actually a little disappointed there wasn't a bigger difference between the TL3 and the worn in Savage.
I think if Savage would fix the issues with reliability and somebody came out with a decent trigger (maybe the new Jard) they would actually be decent. They are still ugly, but if I'm price shopping I'm looking for performance, not looks.
The other unknown is, How damaged is their reputation already? At the point I was at messing with mine, I'm starting to think I would have been better off to try the Jard trigger and buy a new stock. The reason I didn't is because I didn't want to keep wasting money and there aren't a lot of reviews out on the Jard. Plus I think when I burn up the Criterion prefits I have laying around in .243AI I will probably drink the Dasher Kool-aid.
I've gotten pretty serious about shooting matches lately, so I just put a TL3 in a Bravo, but I have been running a Savage for the last two years in Border Wars matches. Once I got everything squared away it was a reliable and smooth action. It needs a good trigger option with a redesigned sear.
Really, the only thing holding me back gun wise was the trigger and the ergonomics of the HSP stock I was shooting. The rest was trigger time and experience. My bighorn is breaking in nicely, but when it was new, the worn in Savage was smoother.
On the Savage, I had to replace the detent for the extractor and have dual ejectors installed to get it to run. I also had to tune the lengths of the dual ejectors and run a 110ba spring in the bottom one and a regular ejector spring in the top one. To smooth out the action I polished all the bolt internals, reduced the depth of the cocking notch at the top of the ramp, and set the firing pin fall to .250". I also installed a bolt lift kit. It probably has around 15,000 cycles on it between dry firing and shooting.
I was actually a little disappointed there wasn't a bigger difference between the TL3 and the worn in Savage.
I think if Savage would fix the issues with reliability and somebody came out with a decent trigger (maybe the new Jard) they would actually be decent. They are still ugly, but if I'm price shopping I'm looking for performance, not looks.
The other unknown is, How damaged is their reputation already? At the point I was at messing with mine, I'm starting to think I would have been better off to try the Jard trigger and buy a new stock. The reason I didn't is because I didn't want to keep wasting money and there aren't a lot of reviews out on the Jard. Plus I think when I burn up the Criterion prefits I have laying around in .243AI I will probably drink the Dasher Kool-aid.
So my first rifle “build” was a Savage stainless action from NSS. I put a PTG bolt head, NSS recoil lug, NSS upgraded ejector kit. I bought a criterion barrel in 6.5 cm and installed it in a XLR Element.
I had my action for a few weeks before the rest of the parts so I sit watching tv or the computer and cycled that action about a million times. The bolt got smother and the lift got lighter but it was still very easy to bind.
Got everything assembled on my kitchen table and took a Precision rifle course. It was 400 rounds in a weekend with nightly cleanings.
It didn’t make it to the last day without turning into a single shot. I replaced the ejector kit with another one from NSS and tried the stock one as well. Again no change. Replaced PTG bolt head and swap ejectors around. No combo would get it to run more then a mag.
The rifle shit well and I scored top shooter all weekend with it but it was sold when I got back home.
I had almost every “upgrade” you could have and it failed within 400 rounds of factory 6.5 ammo.
Sold it and built a true custom.
My advice if your thinking Savage to save money and get a cheap build then look at one of the $659-$800 actions and throw them in a Bravo stock. You’ll end up in a better place.
I had my action for a few weeks before the rest of the parts so I sit watching tv or the computer and cycled that action about a million times. The bolt got smother and the lift got lighter but it was still very easy to bind.
Got everything assembled on my kitchen table and took a Precision rifle course. It was 400 rounds in a weekend with nightly cleanings.
It didn’t make it to the last day without turning into a single shot. I replaced the ejector kit with another one from NSS and tried the stock one as well. Again no change. Replaced PTG bolt head and swap ejectors around. No combo would get it to run more then a mag.
The rifle shit well and I scored top shooter all weekend with it but it was sold when I got back home.
I had almost every “upgrade” you could have and it failed within 400 rounds of factory 6.5 ammo.
Sold it and built a true custom.
My advice if your thinking Savage to save money and get a cheap build then look at one of the $659-$800 actions and throw them in a Bravo stock. You’ll end up in a better place.
I run multiple Savage rifles without issue, but they all needed a lot of work to get there. If Savage wanted to improve their product they should build it with all the upgrades folks have mentioned. Do a better job polishing/finishing actions and triggers and they would be a much better entry level rifle. Better QC before shipping them. Nothing wrong with a Savage rifle, but it is just an entry level rifle with limits.
I think I’ll put my old savage back together tonight.
I have a 260 barrel sitting around all lonely and neglected.
I have a 260 barrel sitting around all lonely and neglected.
I really like their MSR10. Maybe I just got a good one, but it seems like a well thought out rifle. My first hunting rifle was a Savage and I played with them a bit years ago. I wouldn't buy another given all the great options out there. When it was pretty much just Remington or Savage, picking a Savage was an easier choice.
I am pretty new to Savage but like a lot of people here it is the gateway drug for me. I spoke with Shilen today and they knocked off their barrel interface and their bolt itself or a hybrid between them and Remington. In a lot of ways I think this thread is giving them a bad rap. Also on the business side they were just released from their old owner. I'm unsure of the politics but I'm here in Utah and friends at many of their other properties really disliked the ownership. There is a lot more to running a business than the output of the product or wanting everything for nothing. For example I can't believe how dirt cheap the Tactical is right now ($550 plus a manufacturers rebate) with what I think is a pretty decent offering. I'm learning more now on the specifics of the different actions. I will say last night at the indoor 100 yard range here, I was shooting .5 MOA with factory match and fucking floored with the performance. So much for not a lot, in my humble opinion. That said they have an info email, I'll forward this thread along. I'm sure a bunch of engineers and business people will say "fucking people on the Internet" understanding little of "they should just create a second brand" or all of the other off the cuff ideas. But the extraction comments and some badly needed upgrades I'm sure would go a long way and agreed that some mechanical innovations in the action would in fact go a long way. They are so close in many ways, as far as I can tell.
Wow!
That’s a big pile of words.
My savage will be shooting side by side with my custom action today.
Will be interesting to compare them in action.
That’s a big pile of words.
My savage will be shooting side by side with my custom action today.
Will be interesting to compare them in action.
You have a company that chases the most affordable means possible to build a bold action rifle. Rifles that get sold in places where the buyer dictates the margin to the manufacturer. (WalMart for instance)
Its the race to the bottom and they are the carp looking up at all the other fish.
If you want nicer stuff, you buy a nicer rifle. It's that simple.
Cheap and nice are rarely comfortable in the same bed.
Its the race to the bottom and they are the carp looking up at all the other fish.
If you want nicer stuff, you buy a nicer rifle. It's that simple.
Cheap and nice are rarely comfortable in the same bed.
Very true, even if the company would try and change that mindset for just one rifle. I'm not sure it would turn into anything more than another "lipstick on a pig" rifle. They'd really have to abandon their roots.
From the podcast with savage it sure sounded like the guys hands were tied by a crappy board.
I have built two rifles now based on a 111 Lady Hunter donors. Both are LA because I needed to run 6.5x55 via a detachable magazine. Basically I got these for the stock because my wife is tiny and there was literally no great balanced stock aside from a Lady Hunter platform...
Naturally both barrels were replaced- I gone with Krieger 5R 22” tubes 1:8, had it 1/2” threaded and slapped Seikins muzzle breaks on it (opened those up to .284 since shooting 6.5/264.
Accutrigger is not horrible but its not great either, unfortunately, there are no better options (aftermarket) for my rifles as it has a stupid bottom(triggerguard) bolt release.
Plastic parts (magwell guide and triggerguard). Bolt handles were obviously replaced.
No issues with factory poly clad magazines as far as feeding/functioning, mute point as we run 10rd custom mags from darkeagle custom (unlike 270 or 3006, 10th rd is a bitch on slightly beefier 6.5x55 stack). I did NOT have to open up bolt faces for my cartilage and extraction is just fine on both rifles. Bolt lift is - damn people, even with a custom handle be aware of your tube Diameter and thickness of winter gloves.
So, my Savage suggestions:
Add 6.5x55 as a caliber choice.
Get rid of plastic parts and bottom bolt release.
D/t for scope bases in THE SAME SIZE (270 and 30-06 donors had different diameter holes??? Ken Farrell one piece base does come in two different flavors for these, but kind of assumed both LA 111Lady Hunters would have been identical...).
Bolt lift.
Naturally both barrels were replaced- I gone with Krieger 5R 22” tubes 1:8, had it 1/2” threaded and slapped Seikins muzzle breaks on it (opened those up to .284 since shooting 6.5/264.
Accutrigger is not horrible but its not great either, unfortunately, there are no better options (aftermarket) for my rifles as it has a stupid bottom(triggerguard) bolt release.
Plastic parts (magwell guide and triggerguard). Bolt handles were obviously replaced.
No issues with factory poly clad magazines as far as feeding/functioning, mute point as we run 10rd custom mags from darkeagle custom (unlike 270 or 3006, 10th rd is a bitch on slightly beefier 6.5x55 stack). I did NOT have to open up bolt faces for my cartilage and extraction is just fine on both rifles. Bolt lift is - damn people, even with a custom handle be aware of your tube Diameter and thickness of winter gloves.
So, my Savage suggestions:
Add 6.5x55 as a caliber choice.
Get rid of plastic parts and bottom bolt release.
D/t for scope bases in THE SAME SIZE (270 and 30-06 donors had different diameter holes??? Ken Farrell one piece base does come in two different flavors for these, but kind of assumed both LA 111Lady Hunters would have been identical...).
Bolt lift.
