Chasing zeros

[skidhc]

I am fairly new to precision rifle shooting and am really struggling with elevation. Even after truing my solver (Kestrel) data It seems right on sometimes but not at other times. In fact, for stages that involve multiple distances, I am often right on for one distance but off for others. Where should I be looking to solve the problem?

Thanks,
Stephen

 

[Ledzep]

Larger sample size to get a better feel for what's truly going on. Shoot a 10 shot group to set zero. Shoot at least 10-20 shots for MV data. Shoot at least 10 shots on cardboard/paper at range (600-800) to true with.

Garbage in garbage out

 

[Covertnoob5]

If you’re off sometimes and on sometimes then your data isn’t true.
First things first confirm MV with a good chrono (magneto, labradar, etc) then true out the BC at minimum 1k yards. The further the better tho.
after those things perhaps run a tracking test on your scope just to confirm it’s working as it should.

 

[skidhc]

If you’re off sometimes and on sometimes then your data isn’t true.
First things first confirm MV with a good chrono (magneto, labradar, etc) then true out the BC at minimum 1k yards. The further the better tho.
after those things perhaps run a tracking test on your scope just to confirm it’s working as it should.

If it were consistently off at certain distances, I would know what to do - the problem is that it is right sometimes and not other times. As an example, at a two day match this past weekend we shot a stage at 705 yards on both days - day one I hit nothing (couldn't see misses) but on day two every shot I fired was an impact. I had a solid position/hold both days so maybe it is a scope tracking issue? Is it common for them to track correctly sometimes but not always?

 

[Krob95]

If it were consistently off at certain distances, I would know what to do - the problem is that it is right sometimes and not other times. As an example, at a two day match this past weekend we shot a stage at 705 yards on both days - day one I hit nothing (couldn't see misses) but on day two every shot I fired was an impact. I had a solid position/hold both days so maybe it is a scope tracking issue? Is it common for them to track correctly sometimes but not always?

Are you shooting hand loads or factory? Also what scope are you using? How old is it?

 

[skidhc]

Are you shooting hand loads or factory? Also what scope are you using? How old is it?

Handloads and Bushnell DMRII Pro that is about a year old.

 

[CShooter92]

Is your kestrel adjusting your dope for atmospheric conditions? If you're on sometimes, and off others, it could be that your dope is just set for one atmospheric condition. Once the conditions change, your dope is off.

 

[skidhc]

Is your kestrel adjusting your dope for atmospheric conditions? If you're on sometimes, and off others, it could be that your dope is just set for one atmospheric condition. Once the conditions change, your dope is off.

It is set to “live” environment and I have two velocity measurements taken at different temperatures built in as well (and MV Temp on - for some reason it turns it off when you push the profile from the app to the device so you have to do this manually).

 

[Covertnoob5]

If it were consistently off at certain distances, I would know what to do - the problem is that it is right sometimes and not other times. As an example, at a two day match this past weekend we shot a stage at 705 yards on both days - day one I hit nothing (couldn't see misses) but on day two every shot I fired was an impact. I had a solid position/hold both days so maybe it is a scope tracking issue? Is it common for them to track correctly sometimes but not always?

As far as the scope is concerned it’s possible that it’s accurate on the way up but not on the way down if that makes sense. For example if you need 3.8 mils when you dial up exactly 3.8 mils it’s on but if you accidentally dial 4 then go down .2 it could be off.

Now granted that’s a very rare occurrence but I know one guy that had that issue with a top tier optic no less.

As far as the match, I’m not sure what to tell you. Maybe the spotters couldn’t see the impacts on day 1? Small caliber? Tough weather?

I was at a 2 day match this past weekend as well, but it was squad RO/Spot and honestly if it wasn’t for the good glass and experienced spotters in my squad we would’ve had a hell of a time spotting impacts with the 6BR’s in our squad at longer distances.

 

[Boltyboi]

Do you have access to a chrono? Have you had good results with your hand loads on another rig?

Sounds to me like there are 3 possibilities.
Balistic software is off. If this is the case, then it should really only rear its head at longer ranges. If you are shooting at 300 or 400 yards, you shouldn't be in "cant see my misses" territory becuase of this. What ranges are these issues happening?

How consistent is your 100 yard zero? Every time on the money? If so that should mean the scope is tracking well... Try eliminating the turrets. Do a box test and a group where you wildly play with the elevation and return to zero between each shot.
Do another with the windage

For hand loads that's hard to narrow down without a chrono.

Are you sure everything is mounted up properly? Probably wouldn't be the issue if it's just an elevation issue and not windage, but it cant hurt to check that all your screws are properly torqued and loctighted. Maybe the base is a littlewiggly?

That's all I got

 

[skidhc]

As far as the scope is concerned it’s possible that it’s accurate on the way up but not on the way down if that makes sense. For example if you need 3.8 mils when you dial up exactly 3.8 mils it’s on but if you accidentally dial 4 then go down .2 it could be off.

Now granted that’s a very rare occurrence but I know one guy that had that issue with a top tier optic no less.

As far as the match, I’m not sure what to tell you. Maybe the spotters couldn’t see the impacts on day 1? Small caliber? Tough weather?

I was at a 2 day match this past weekend as well, but it was squad RO/Spot and honestly if it wasn’t for the good glass and experienced spotters in my squad we would’ve had a hell of a time spotting impacts with the 6BR’s in our squad at longer distances.

Yes

As far as the scope is concerned it’s possible that it’s accurate on the way up but not on the way down if that makes sense. For example if you need 3.8 mils when you dial up exactly 3.8 mils it’s on but if you accidentally dial 4 then go down .2 it could be off.

Now granted that’s a very rare occurrence but I know one guy that had that issue with a top tier optic no less.

As far as the match, I’m not sure what to tell you. Maybe the spotters couldn’t see the impacts on day 1? Small caliber? Tough weather?

I was at a 2 day match this past weekend as well, but it was squad RO/Spot and honestly if it wasn’t for the good glass and experienced spotters in my squad we would’ve had a hell of a time spotting impacts with the 6BR’s in our squad at longer distances.

That makes total sense - backlash. I have shot iron sights for years (like 30+) and that was an issue early on and I kinda got in a habit of taking my scope to zero then back up for every stage just for that reason.

6.5x47 and very good spotters on this particular stage (both days) so don't think they were missing them (they were calling impacts whether or not the hit indicator went off so I am pretty confident what they knew what they were doing).

 

[Covertnoob5]

Yes

That makes total sense - backlash. I have shot iron sights for years (like 30+) and that was an issue early on and I kinda got in a habit of taking my scope to zero then back up for every stage just for that reason.

6.5x47 and very good spotters on this particular stage (both days) so don't think they were missing them (they were calling impacts whether or not the hit indicator went off so I am pretty confident what they knew what they were doing).

oh yea 6.5x47 shouldn’t be very difficult at all to spot. Hmm have you been able to confirm at your home range?
how many mils were you missing by at the match?

 

[skidhc]

Do you have access to a chrono? Have you had good results with your hand loads on another rig?

Sounds to me like there are 3 possibilities.
Balistic software is off. If this is the case, then it should really only rear its head at longer ranges. If you are shooting at 300 or 400 yards, you shouldn't be in "cant see my misses" territory becuase of this. What ranges are these issues happening?

How consistent is your 100 yard zero? Every time on the money? If so that should mean the scope is tracking well... Try eliminating the turrets. Do a box test and a group where you wildly play with the elevation and return to zero between each shot.
Do another with the windage

For hand loads that's hard to narrow down without a chrono.

Are you sure everything is mounted up properly? Probably wouldn't be the issue if it's just an elevation issue and not windage, but it cant hurt to check that all your screws are properly torqued and loctighted. Maybe the base is a littlewiggly?

That's all I got

Yes, I have a Magnetospeed and an Oehler 35P - mostly use the Magneto now that I have proved repeatedly that the values it gives are EXACTLY the same as the Oehler.

When I don't change anything in between matches (which I haven't done recently), 100 yard zero seems very solid/consistent but I will try your suggestion to see if I see any problems.

I have trued my MV and BC based on actual impacts out to 1200 yards (did this just a few weeks ago at K&M) - so not to say that the numbers aren't right but I have made an effort to ensure that they are.

Can't be sure if it is just elevation and not wind at this point. Before the match (and before checking zeros at 100), I checked ring and mount torque as always. After that, shot 8 rounds into an approximately 0.5" hole (guessing based on the size of the dots available), right where they should have been. Mount is a Spuhr 4001 and is pretty solid. However, I do not have any Loctite applied on any of it.

 

[Steel head]

If your on live all the time with your kestrel the temp will often rise and will calculate for a higher DA.
Twirl the kestrel to clear the sensors then lock the conditions.

 

[CBeck]

As an example, at a two day match this past weekend we shot a stage at 705 yards on both days - day one I hit nothing (couldn't see misses) but on day two every shot I fired was an impact.

Day 1 - wind. Day 2 - less or no wind?

 

[skidhc]

Day 1 - wind. Day 2 - less or no wind?

Day 2 -more wind

 

[skidhc]

If your on live all the time with your kestrel the temp will often rise and will calculate for a higher DA.
Twirl the kestrel to clear the sensors then lock the conditions.

I do the twirl thing before I look up data for the distance(s) of the stage I am about to shoot but you are saying do this once (in the morning I guess or maybe mid-day on Friday) and lock it? Aren't you missing out on potential environmental condition changes that could affect your zeros you do that?

 

[47guy]

you need to sit down with your kestrel and the instructions and got through every icon in the kestrel and figure out what it off...you have some bum info somewhere just need to find it....

make sure you true north in holding true
make sure your scope height is exact
make sure you measure a bullet and enter it do not use the default
temp MV.....put a couple rounds in the freezer over night then take them to the range in an ice chest in a baggy on ice at the range let 2 rounds sit on your defroster at full heat for 15-20 minutes and have 2 rounds in your truck so they are around 60deg.

leave all these rounds where they are and grab 1 round at a time and get it in your gun and shoot it as fast as you can do not give it time to cool down or warm up...shoot all 6 like this and record the velocities then enter them in the temp MV.....my numbers are 32deg 2955...65deg 2975...95deg 2998

i was to the point i was going to sell my kestrel...hated it because of the same issue your having but once i sat down with the instructions printed out and went through every icon and checked that the info was as close as i could get it my kestrel is dead nuts all day every day now....i run my kestrel live all the time...its never locked.

 

[Sig Marine]

Fundamentals (eye relief, trigger press and follow through, check weld, pressure on the rifle, breathing, NPA), eye fatigue, parallax, mirage, direction of light...the list goes on. Until you have solid fundamentals and can do many of the things listed above consistently regardless of shooting position, your POI can/will change. Scope tracking, environmentals and truing your app/ballistics are important but only a part of the solution.