Is there something more than just a run on primers or are frickin UFO,s snatching them up. Does anyone truly know whats up with shortages. Im glad i stocked up yrs ago but dam if i was short i would be in a pickle. It must be a marerial shortage because if i was a manufacturer my machines would be humming 24/7.
Is it a primer conspiracy or corona virus.
- Thread starter DannyBoy
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Thats what i was thinking, the big guys gobbling up everything. There must be some serious govt restrictions to get into the bullet , brass and primer business because it seems like a pretty lucrative place for a start up.
- Mar 15, 2018
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We are in the Super Bowl, World Series and Stanley Cup of Ammo and ammunition components demand. Unprecedented, unheard of, the greatest surge since 2008. The fuck clobbering to end all fuck clobbering’s of buying. It makes no sense for commercial ammunition manufacturers to invest millions of dollars and train dozens of new operators for a demand that will likely disappear after the November elections (God wiling) and have all of that new equipment and investment sitting idle.
Now go back and read the first paragraph, “…since 2008”. Remember this next year after things return to normal and plan accordingly. There was about a 12 year window for buying when both reloading components and ammunition were plentiful.
Now go back and read the first paragraph, “…since 2008”. Remember this next year after things return to normal and plan accordingly. There was about a 12 year window for buying when both reloading components and ammunition were plentiful.
I’m guilty
Last time there were cci 450’s I bought 15k simply bc almost all my different reloads use them, and my match rounds just don’t have the low es/sd without them
Yes I also bought 5k of Remington 7-1/2 just as a backup knowing I could either use them in my high volume 223 in a pinch or trade for 450’s down the road
Sure I might be considered a hoarder but at least I’m setup for a while on primers, varget, and h4350, at least enough to last two years at my current usage rate
Guess I’m just one of those guys that live by the condom theory, I’d rather have and not need, then need and not have
Plus what’s another few hundo on gun stuff in the grand scheme of things
I too have plenty 450,s but low on 41,s and needing to pump out some rounds for the AR,s now that their a little scarce too, when the kids all show up thats the first thing they want to do, go bang away. Want to make sure they have safe rounds. Has anyone used anything else with zero slam fire incident.
Multiple wammy...
-More ammo production to meet demand and ammo manufacturers make more money selling ammo than components. So less primers for reloaders
-Ammo cost is high making reloading more attractive. I do not reload 9mm if I can buy it for $160/1000 but will if it is $300/1000.
-Ammo is in short supply due to hoarding and new shooters so people who normally do not reload are now.
-Add all this to covid closed companies and raw materials for suppliers are in short supply. Metals and chemicals come from China which closed down for a couple of months.
Perfect storm to not have primers. Hoarding will continue, especially with the polls showing Biden ahead. Do not expect the shortage of ammo, guns and components to be much better befre december if Trump wins or next year if Biden wins.
-More ammo production to meet demand and ammo manufacturers make more money selling ammo than components. So less primers for reloaders
-Ammo cost is high making reloading more attractive. I do not reload 9mm if I can buy it for $160/1000 but will if it is $300/1000.
-Ammo is in short supply due to hoarding and new shooters so people who normally do not reload are now.
-Add all this to covid closed companies and raw materials for suppliers are in short supply. Metals and chemicals come from China which closed down for a couple of months.
Perfect storm to not have primers. Hoarding will continue, especially with the polls showing Biden ahead. Do not expect the shortage of ammo, guns and components to be much better befre december if Trump wins or next year if Biden wins.
New gun owners buy more ammo so guys that may have only been slightly into reloading are trying to build stock piles as well.
But disagree about stocks coming back if Biden wins...
I've learned my lesson. Stock up when you get a chance. I bought 10k CCI #450s from Brownells about 2 months ago.
If anyones in S Texas, Texas gun shop in Corpus Christi is loaded with bout every primer out there. A tad pricey but its only money
. Most 1k $50, match and BR,s $90 but cartridges dont go bang without em so wth.You're forgetting all the panic buying after Sandy Hook and the 2012 election. That double whammy screwed up ammo availability for a long time.
Tough times.
I learned an important lesson then.
I have enough primers and powder to ride out a pretty good storm now.
Amateur numbers, I know. Working on it
Don’t feel bad man, I’m behind the 8 ball too. Only got 2k 205m’s but gonna try and buy another case soon if at possible. I don’t reload in bulk but I want to have enough to shoot for a while
Learned my lesson back in 2008. Havent really been out of anything since then. That being said I dont think there is really that bad of a shortage going on right now considering myself and 4 buddies just bought 25k pistol primers for 109/case the other day from a local dude. IMO we are well ahead of any real shortage.. we are just in that time where sellers recognize that people are panic buying and start jacking up the prices. Still deals out there to be found and plenty of primers to go around. When all those private sellers start drying up, that's when the real shortage begins.
It can be a good business, but there are problems.
Start up cost is high if you want to actually make a profit.
You need a place where you can legally Manufacture ammunition. Temp controlled building with some room to test your products for pressure and velocity. Accuracy testing of rifle rounds needs 100yds min.
Machinery to make the ammo. $$$$$$
Powder, brass, bullets and primers. 1 million primers doesn't last a week. Think about that...
Test barrels for pressure and velocity.
Actual firearms for function testing.
A big assed safe (room sized) to safely store them.
Computers
Tools
People to load.
People to QC
People to package
People to keep inventory and ship.
Someone to answer the phone.
At least one sales person.
Good luck getting good people.
You'll need monthly/annual contracts.
Contracts to be supplied with packaging materials, bullets, brass, powder and primers or you can't produce.
It goes way deeper than this, but I listed these just to give you an idea on the basics if you want to produce anything in volume.
Can you manufacture commercial ammunition in your garage? Of course, it's been the startup of many companies like Black Hills.
Do a lot of cost analysis and be realistic about production rates before you decide to jump in.
Lol, i know exactly what your saying. Im in no way considering jumping into that game, im retired Navy and I just closed down my pest control business because cant get anyone to work. Their content to sit on their ass at home and collect fat ass unemployment benifits, our tax dollers hard at work
. I still have my full time job so im not hurting. Would have loved to kept a handfull of people in a job but not worth the hassle, besides my wife ran all tha Pest stuff and shes ready to retire and play with all her critters. Im finding plenty of primers in local gun shops so must not be as bad as it seems or just not many reloaders in south texas lol.
Glad you can find primers.
Nothing available around the Tampa area. All the shelves are wiped out except for a little 410, 28ga and some 10mm.
Hunting ammo is available, but I reload so I'm not going to spend $1.50-$3.00 per round to buy stuff I don't need.
Reloading components including even dies and presses are gone.
That's okay for right now, they'll be for sale in the next year.
Nothing available around the Tampa area. All the shelves are wiped out except for a little 410, 28ga and some 10mm.
Hunting ammo is available, but I reload so I'm not going to spend $1.50-$3.00 per round to buy stuff I don't need.
Reloading components including even dies and presses are gone.
That's okay for right now, they'll be for sale in the next year.
Texas gun shop in Corpus Christi is loaded, maybe can give em a call and work something out to get some shipped if in need of some. The $20 haz fee sucks but 4 beers in my favorite resturant cost that so why not
. The owners seems pretty cool so never know. Im going to be out making my rounds today so i will hit a few more and see who has what and if their willing to ship. Im a month and half away from some muzzle loader hunting with my buddys in Colorado and lots of varmits that need tending too so Lots of 20 tac rounds to crank out. And on that note, is there anyone that shoots that round? Like to hear from ya. Mine is an absolute lazer.
I've got a pair of 204R, but not the Tac.
Next fun gun will be a 20 VarTarg on a CZ 527. It is currently a 221 FB, but the barrel got rusted inside because it had been left in a soft case and it had been wet.
It still shoots under 1/2", but it won't hold for long.
For me, if I built another 20 on a full length 223 case, it would be the 20 Practical. Neck diameter change only and it's ready to rock.
Of course, fireforming on live critters is total fun.
Next fun gun will be a 20 VarTarg on a CZ 527. It is currently a 221 FB, but the barrel got rusted inside because it had been left in a soft case and it had been wet.
It still shoots under 1/2", but it won't hold for long.
For me, if I built another 20 on a full length 223 case, it would be the 20 Practical. Neck diameter change only and it's ready to rock.
Of course, fireforming on live critters is total fun.
I screwed up last time I ordered primers years ago and didn't get any 34's... Dangerously low. Now everyone is out! Looked on GB and found a guy with a couple hundred boxes for sale at $32ea. so I picked up 10k for $320 plus the $32 hazmat and $32 shipping.
If anyone is interested it's PH Bullets and Brass on GB. Just search for CCI 34.
I need to start buying ammo though, not to use, just to sell every so often when shit like this happens.
If anyone is interested it's PH Bullets and Brass on GB. Just search for CCI 34.
I need to start buying ammo though, not to use, just to sell every so often when shit like this happens.
I live in the land of rust here on S texas coast and im right on the water so i feel your pain. Im with you on the practical, was thinking bout converting one of my old bolt guns before because I have so much bulk 223 brass i could seriously put a dent in the P dog population, cheap shooting fun gun for sure. Ive done some light reading on it but now i feel that fire getting going so thanks for the motivationI've got a pair of 204R, but not the Tac.
Next fun gun will be a 20 VarTarg on a CZ 527. It is currently a 221 FB, but the barrel got rusted inside because it had been left in a soft case and it had been wet.
It still shoots under 1/2", but it won't hold for long.
For me, if I built another 20 on a full length 223 case, it would be the 20 Practical. Neck diameter change only and it's ready to rock.
Of course, fireforming on live critters is total fun.
You need the proper FFL too, don't forget that. Anything over a certain amount is no longer considered a "hobby" when being sold. I don't know what this is but I recall reading it somewhere. Local licenses, etc., and I shouldn't need to tell 'ya this needs to be an LLC.
Then there's storage and a proper magazine that's been inspected by the local fire marshal on top of meeting codes and regulations for that type of business in your area. Are you zoned for it?
Insurance. OMFG insurance. And a lawyer, you need a GOOD idiot and liability statement that will hold up, also you need to know your actual exposure and liability. Find a good lawyer, an NFA lawyer may be a good place to start.
SOP for handling of explosive materials. Grounded workstations? Assume all employees are idiots. Redundant safeties and QC batch testing. ONE bad load in the wrong weapon held by the wrong person can cost you millions. Ever made a mistake reloading?
A small garage setup is one thing and even then you can find yourself sitting on too much powder and primer --one brick of primer IIRC is equivalent to a hand grenade in explosive potential? So a large business doing it is essentially sitting on a bomb if not handled properly.
Due to cost of pressure testing, pretty sure large powder mfg., etc., will pressure test loads for small businesses but not individuals. Not sure if there's a cost or a limit of how many they do or what but I know they do it. That's your biggest hurdle really for small batch/custom handloads.
FWIW, the commercial loading presses look a lot like pill presses and that may be what they are... A spinning drum with dies and cams and presses and pulls shit, really fast, like one blur fast. They're very expensive, very precise and look like a super pain in the ass to maintain but I could be wrong... I seen one guy rig up several Dillon 1050's to a motor and belt assy., all sorts of alarms and shit, and it'd run in his garage automatically. Auto shutdown when it ran out or something went wrong. Looked cool, but it was obviously a pain in the ass and I figure with what he had into it all total, plus time and effort, he could have just bought a commercial one... I bet all he did was load primer tubes and swap those all day long, not to mention unfucking the primer mechanism now and again when it jams due to debris. Wow. NOT the way to go man!
Finding people to buy into a custom load business is hard and then manufacturing enough bulk range ammo on Dillon gear for profit I think is equally hard. I'd keep it a hobby to begin with if I were you, but I'd get the LLC and the insurance for sure if you plan on selling it. Dip your toes, don't jump in. I've thought about this myself but always get talked out of it.
Don't go here unless you're willing to dive deep.
www.saubier.com
They'll help you spend your money.
I was a production manager for an ammunition company.
I wouldn't try to do it for a living as the owner.
No way in hell.
I hear 'ya! Like I said, I've entertained it enough to look into it, it's not for me. If it was just loading a good basic range load recipe and going with it I would, but it's NOT that simple as you know.
I'll just have to stick with loading my own and being content with the savings and quality from that.
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