None of that is evidence. It points to bad things, but none of it is determinative of anything at all. Look, I wish Trump won too, but I am not going to renounce my sanity in his defense.
- Thread starter QuickNDirty
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That is certainly true, and I qualified it as "thus far." Bottom line is that, unlike most legal proceedings, a case like this is won in the court of public opinion, so there is little incentive for these lawyers to hold bombshells back. No court is going to overturn an election without a public mandate to do so, and while that is probably a legally problematic reality, it is also perhaps a political necessity.
"your honor....yes my client is covered in the victims blood....yes my client is holding the murder weapon.....yes my client was the only person on the scene.....yes my client previously announced his intentions to murder the suspect.....but your honor, none of that is evidence that proves he is guilty."
"Thus far" will like stretch to eternity.
Though you talk big, I seriously doubt you're connected in any way shape or form to the legal battles going on.
I don't talk big, and I am not connected to any of the legal battles going on.
Sessions is a fine guy. Not a swamp Republican. His failing was incompetence, which is what doomed much of the Trump administration.
Wray seems useless. McCain was awful.
I think Barr is generally correct in what he has done. I know people wanted other outcomes, but you get what you get. His view of the country and constitution is, largely, correct.
Romney, despite his pathetic bluster, never hurt anybody. His vote on impeachment did nothing, his vote on ACB did a lot.
There is a big difference between McCain and a random Republican with whom I sometimes disagree.
That is simply your opinion and far from a statement of fact.
Quite honestly your delusions of political intelligence are getting boring.
Not doing your job is the same as doing the work of the Communists.
Failure to act, when its your duty to do so, in the face of wrong makes you as guilty as those committing the crime.
I am going to answer this honestly, and in good faith. I believe that, if there is overwhelming evidence of fraud, then there will be the public support for it, but I do not know that overturning an election on a narrow technicality is even what the founders would have hoped for, especially since I don't think they saw the Supreme Court as this ultimate power it is now. Bottom line is every government rests, at its foundation, on the people legitimizing it. That was the whole reason for the claim of divine right of kings, and it is what undergirds the constitution. Just the reality of power.
In order for someone to understand that they first have to understand the concept of duty. The person you directed that answer to seems to not be one of them.
This was a particularly funny recall... That fucker Kemp tried/did the same shit this time.
Last Sunday a judge, within a 7 hour timespan, ordered that .gov NOT fuck with the voting machines for 10 days, then reverted that order, then re-ordered it...
apnews.com
Last Sunday a judge, within a 7 hour timespan, ordered that .gov NOT fuck with the voting machines for 10 days, then reverted that order, then re-ordered it...
APNewsBreak: Georgia election server wiped after suit filed
A computer server crucial to a lawsuit against Georgia election officials was quietly wiped clean by its custodians just after the suit was filed, The Associated Press has learned...
apnews.com 
@Choid - you say you didnt “say that” because it wasnt a blatant statement.
some understand the deeper statements in what people say. My 3rd grader can do it.
welcome to the new Hide club. RustyTromboneGiver in OR is part of it too.
Known as Club de la Douche.
some understand the deeper statements in what people say. My 3rd grader can do it.
welcome to the new Hide club. RustyTromboneGiver in OR is part of it too.
Known as Club de la Douche.
I saw an unofficial report that Trump actually won 410 in the college if the truth were reported. Per the confiscation of the German clandestine server.
I personally believe that’s what actually happened.
Look at the gains he made compared to 2016 in big blue cities!
Fraud is fraud. The nature or scope of it is irrelevant. Narrow technicality is what defines the rule of law.
Popular opinion/public support isn't what undergrids the Constitution. Its foundations are classical, not fleeting (which is what public support is) and not understood by an uneducated population.
BTW by definition, the divine right to rule is the complete opposite of popular legitimacy. It stood in spite of.
I have no clue what you are talking about, but whatever. As I recall he voted for Biden, which makes him far different from me. I am just giving my analysis of what I have seen. Nothing else. But go fuck yourself nonetheless.
This. Which is why traitors are traditionally met with exacting justice.
No one is gonna spoon feed you the answers. The machine manipulation is a complicated subject. The obvious fraud is obvious, and you need only look at the actions being taken by the courts and other .gov types, as well as the endless supply of testimonies, to get a decent picture of how it all went down.
Feehan V. Wisconsin is gonna be nuts.
The latter statement is incorrect. The Divine Right claim was what made the crown legitimate to uneducated masses who had been subjugated and ruled by religion for centuries.
As to the other, I agree that the foundations of the Constitution are classical, with a good dose of Enlightenment, but the truth remains that, like the King's right, the ability of the constitution to remain the law of the land is dependent on its popular legitimacy. Without that it becomes meaningless, no matter how exquisite a document it might be. Like it or not, there is sometimes a balancing act in maintaining its power.
i wonder if these fucktards believe Kim Jong Un actually gets 100% of the vote in N. korea as well......i mean, thats what the polls say, right?....thats what the media says, right?.......must be true.
Lol, clownworld...
Just need the dead body.
It's like if someone went missing. You have numerous people give testimony and statements they saw the missing person stuffed into a trunk of a car. The witnesses can describe in great detail what happened. The witness statements largely collaborate each other. Additionally, phone GPS data shows the person was in fact in the area described by the witnesses. No other evidence was found at the scene.
"Well, I need to see the dead body otherwise nothing to see here"
Just need the dead body.
It's like if someone went missing. You have numerous people give testimony and statements they saw the missing person stuffed into a trunk of a car. The witnesses can describe in great detail what happened. The witness statements largely collaborate each other. Additionally, phone GPS data shows the person was in fact in the area described by the witnesses. No other evidence was found at the scene.
"Well, I need to see the dead body otherwise nothing to see here"
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This thread has helped me fill out my ignore list quite nicely.
This election won’t be overturned on technicalities. It will be turned over on provable vote switching, driving ballots across state lines, injection of fake ballots, evidence tampering, bribery, and influence of enemy foreign actors.
Joe fucking Biden is not the most popular president in history. Joe Biden did not receive more actual votes than Obama. Joe under performed everywhere except for a few key areas where ballot stuffing and cheating was rampant.
Look, I am about as anti-democracy as anybody you will find, but that doesn't change the facts about the legitimacy of government. There are plenty of legitimate non democracies, even ones I detest and would never support, but governments depend on being seen as legitimate for their continued existence. An election being overturned by nine unelected judges, likely in a 5-4 vote, is not good for legitimacy. Hence my earlier comment that in a case like this it benefits the lawyers not to keep any information secret, because only a groundswell of public opinion could lead to an overturn that would be seen as legitimate. I'm not saying I like it any more than you do, but it is the fundamental understanding of power in politics.
Sorry if I have offended so many on here by giving my analysis. It is how I honestly see it, not how I wish it to be.
so if there is evidence that the election was stolen, and it goes to the SC, and they rule in favor of trump......that is bad for legitimacy?
a legal ruling based on evidence is bad for legitimacy?
so its much better to have an illegitimate govt for the sake of "legitimacy"...?
are you seriously fucking retarded?
i really dont know why you are such a dick hopper for "public opinion".....the public is retarded......you can have video evidence of joe biden groping children.....but so long as the media goes "no he wasnt groping her, he was just giving her a 'strong embrace' " they will believe it.....
hell, biden is on video claiming he has the most "extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in history"......and the media literally came out and said "oooooh no, thats not what he really meant".......and people just forgot about it.
who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes.
jesus just look at all the riots from police shootings.....a cop is not charged when he shoots an armed man trying to kill them.....and the "court of public opinion" riots and burns down cities.......should we send innocent cops to prison to appease the mob?.......fuck there is video evidence proving their innocence, and they still riot.
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Trump didn't lose. The dems cheated and got caught. The evidence is there and is being presented in court. My hope is that justice be served and those involved are charged & tried. My fear is we are only teaching the cheaters to cheater better in the next election which is why my hope for justice is crucial.
Choid (and others) has shown his true colors. The "I support Trump, but..." narrative is fucking bullshit. And now he's on here trying to convince us to accept the results and move on with our lives. Nice try cupcake. Now go fuck yourself.
Also, for fun, look up the definition of choid.
Is this what facebook is like these days?
OK, I will bow out of the Bear Pit Politics. Just FYI, I have never voted for a Democrat, would never, and am certainly not a Biden troll. I have literally the same goals as you guys, just see the tactics differently. It bodes badly for the future that somebody like that would be reviled in a community, especially when some obvious Dem trolls, who are egging the whole narrative on in there get naive back slaps. It is the road to ruin.
the "road to ruin" is letting an obviously stolen election go uncontested......go be a beta bitch somewhere else.
i'll have to find that thread. and i never said no fraud. frankly it seemed to defy statistics that when trump was clearly ahead with 90% of votes in, that he still lost some states. but defying statistics doesn't necessarily = massive fraud (but it certainly doesn't rule it out either).
I'm disappointed reading about anyone willing to pull the plug on something so significant as this election and the game clock doesn't read :00 yet. One of the reasons conservatives are where we are right now is because progressives NEVER quit
I suspected that your pseudo-intellectualism was a cover for ignorance. Now you've confirmed it.
While you are correct that politics depends on popularity to maintain its power over its adherents, you confuse politics with legitimate governance and with the rule of law. They are nowhere near close to being the same thing.
So how is Biden as President going to be seen as legitimate?
Surrender in the face of so much evidence of fraud dos not provide him legitimacy.
Biden got more votes than the Messiah?
Biden underperformed Hillary in all cities except 5 swing states?
People much smarter than I have been calling (worrying) about this mob-rule shit for centuries. Most notably, de Tocqueville, who talked about Tyranny of the Majority in his Democracy in America.
Democracies were thought vulnerable to majority tyranny in two distinct forms. Firstly, tyranny that operates through the formal procedures of government. Tocqueville drew attention to this scenario, wherein “politically speaking, the people have a right to do anything”.
Alternatively, the majority might exercise moral or social tyranny through the power of public opinion and custom. Tocqueville lamented this new form of “democratic despotism”. He was concerned about the potential abandonment of rationality if a claim to rule is based upon numbers, and “not upon rightness or excellence”.
It's amazing that men like him and others in those days called themselves Liberals. Tocqueville and John Stuart Mill both strongly railed for individual liberty, separation of powers and limits on government. "Liberals" today are straight up Communists.
Democracies were thought vulnerable to majority tyranny in two distinct forms. Firstly, tyranny that operates through the formal procedures of government. Tocqueville drew attention to this scenario, wherein “politically speaking, the people have a right to do anything”.
Alternatively, the majority might exercise moral or social tyranny through the power of public opinion and custom. Tocqueville lamented this new form of “democratic despotism”. He was concerned about the potential abandonment of rationality if a claim to rule is based upon numbers, and “not upon rightness or excellence”.
It's amazing that men like him and others in those days called themselves Liberals. Tocqueville and John Stuart Mill both strongly railed for individual liberty, separation of powers and limits on government. "Liberals" today are straight up Communists.
Biden getting more votes than Obama is a total red herring. There were more total votes cast. Reagan got a higher percentage of votes, but less total votes too. It is not meaningful.
Look, my point is this. There is a five percent chance, at best, of changing the outcome here. The reason is that there is little hard evidence of fraud. There is a lot of soft evidence, but not hard. There is about an 80% chance of winning the senate in GA. All resources should be spent there, because it is a more important outcome, and one that can actually do something to advance our cause, or at least foil their cause.
You are too black and white. Yes, the rule of law and politics are not the same thing, but without an understanding of power politics, you don't get to rule over anything. Machiavelli goes over this quite clearly, you should read both the Prince and the Discourses. There is no perfect government, but rule one is having something to govern. The likelihood of a better system replacing the constitutional one we have now is approximately zero, so there is value in conserving it. I imagine that leftists are salivating at the idea of delegitimizing the whole thing, because they clearly have plans for their newer, better way.
While you are right about de Toqueville, you are wrong about Mill. He was one of the first "liberals" to betray liberty while playing lip service to it. His father was much better.
Lol
Like I believe fox anymore!!!
Biden's election cannot be de-legitimized when it's illegitimate to begin with. The basis for your entire argument is false.
First of all, your probability numbers are completely made up. Second of all, a war is fought in multiple fronts. One doesn't abandon a strategic defensive position, leaving it wide open, to concentrate forces on a tactical offensive.
It's not either/or.
Places change, and their people along with them. The founders would have been kicked out of the Ivy league had they been in it for the past 10 years. Just like JFK would have been kicked out of the Democrat party if he were to revisit it over the past 10 years. A person at Harvard in the early years of this nation would not only have been a scholar of the bible, but spoke it in biblical Hebrew. The average Harvard grad today detests the values of the Bible, and probably couldn't name most of the major characters in that book.
You can't get through thick skulls this election isn't over nor has it been decided. It's further proof the media, to their credit, have bred an entire population of lemmings who will be ensnared by their net. I don't like what the media has done, but I respect their patience and persistence. They laid out a long term plan with schools from elementary through college + the media and poof.....50 years later they have an army of dolts.
In all reality, trump won the vote handily. Will he be re-sworn in as POTUS? That is another story. Depends on how much deeper the rats have tunneled into our government.
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