Annealing/Sizing Advise

[JsnSanko]

I bought some processed 7.62X51 brass.

These things are close to 0.015 long, and am having to move the shoulder that far. First batch I did came out good. I annealed. Moved the shoulder. Held the press for 8 seconds and hit my target. The press took considerable force.

Two questions.

1-Should I anneal after because of how far I moved the brass?
2-Should I be doing a different process?

 

[RickyRacer87]

Well myself I think I'd do that much of a bump in more than one pass and anneal between the two. It can't hurt to anneal it without firing all it's going to do is not overwork the brass and that's always a good thing.
Just my two cents...

 

[JsnSanko]

Well myself I think I'd do that much of a bump in more than one pass and anneal between the two. It can't hurt to anneal it without firing all it's going to do is not overwork the brass and that's always a good thing.
Just my two cents...

Ok. So following your advice I removed the 0.004 shell plate and sized a batch with the 0.010 (Redding Competition Shell Holders). They came out 1.622 with a 0.400 comparator. So that really was a start. Is it too much to move to a 0.006 after an annealing which will give me 0.004 movement and clearance for a gas gun chamber in a Ranier Arms Ultra Match Barrel. My chamber measures 1.622 exact. I have not had to set shoulders back this much before with Lake City 5.56, the 7.62 stuff is much harder to work with.

 

[RickyRacer87]

Well you need to bump it back to your desired head space. And there shouldn’t be a problem moving it that much I wouldn’t think. But if that brass is really tough Annealing will only help. A little at a time can’t hurt anything.

 

[supercorndogs]

Its normal for military 7.62 brass to be hard to size. The cases have thick walls. Anneal it once, size it in one step, and shoot it. Quit overthinking it. I can not think of any reason sizing it in steps would be better. You are pushing the shoulder the same distance no matter how steps you do it in.

A couple questions.

If its processed why are you having to size it?

What did they fire it in that has a chamber that is .015 longer than your chamber?

How did you decide how much to size the cases?

 

[JsnSanko]

Won’t say where I got the brass. If was consistent. Mostly 07 LC brass. Did get 30 pieces of LC LR 07, and some 06 LC also.

That said. My chamber with fired FGMM is 1.622 with a Hornady 0.400 comparator. As said above. A Rainer Ultra Match Barrel. Aero BCG. Aero Upper and Lower. A lot of other stuff.

So being a semi AR-10 I am shooting for I am going for 1.618. Most of the brass I bought is at 1.633. Hence the 0.015. I don’t know. Don’t care. Don’t want to get in a pissing contest. Just speaking the numbers. My calipers.

Processed means they polished it before hand. should probably stick to Kaleo Arms Brass. They say unprocessed. That’s where the 5.56 I have got has came from with great results.

This is why I am asking. Shooting for 0.004-0.005 under my chamber. Per all the stickies above per an AR.

The site said processed not me. Primers has to be punched and I had too process the primer pockets. Sorry. Reamed the primer pockets. All the stuff in the stickies.

 

[Steel head]

Sounds like machine gun brass.
Anneal it and resize it but remember it’s had an excessive stretch on that first firing so keep an eye out for the doom ring and case head separations especially since you’re using it on a gasser.

 

[supercorndogs]

Make sure it chambers also, that MG brass often needs hit with a small base die.

 

[Steel head]

Make sure it chambers also, that MG brass often needs hit with a small base die.

 

[JsnSanko]

Sounds like machine gun brass.
Anneal it and resize it but remember it’s had an excessive stretch on that first firing so keep an eye out for the doom ring and case head separations especially since you’re using it on a gasser.

Yep. A lot of searching. Not all of it was. I got 22 rounds (out of 200, Lapua would have been cheaper lol) stamped LC 07 LR. All that stuff was 1.622-1.624 and a lot more consistent. After the first in my firearm firing I will do the paperclip feel. Just want to get around FGMM. I can shoot that right at an inch at 100. Trying to improve from there.

 

[Shoots 700's]

When I used LC machine gun brass I had to use a small base body die and trim alot. For whats the brass is used for,it works fine

 

[elfster1234]

Usually need to run it thru twice for that much bump. Imperical wax is your friend

 

[r.tenorio671]

....sounds like the vendor just tumbled them to clean them. When a website claims "Processed", need to verify what their definition of "processed" is, if they detail it. The claim of "Processed" can vary greatly, but at a minimum it will be cleaned, either chemical wash or tumbled, primers still in the cases. Fully processed will be decapped, sized to SAAMI spec, trimmed to SAAMI spec and then cleaned (dry, wet, washed). Regardless, any 1x fired surplus brass should always be sized in YOUR dies that are set to YOUR chambers dimensions and trimmed to YOUR chambers dimensions before use.

Annealing beforehand will certainly ease the shoulder bump process and normalize the neck tension, a single pass is all that's required. That 1st time sizing will seem "harder", but after that and fired in YOUR chamber, the amount of force to resize will ease up.

A small based sizing die isn't always needed, but you can check that by using one of the resized case to make a dummy round and see if it will chamber properly. Caveat: An insufficient shoulder bump can prevent full chambering and give a false reading that makes it appear that a small base die is needed. An overly long seated bullet can jam in the lands and do same. Individual bullet style of ogive is a factor when choosing a seating depth,

...FWIW, an invaluable tool I've been using for multiple calibers is the Sheridan Slotted gauges. Takes all of the guessing out of trim length, shoulder bump and bullet seating, I can't recommend it enough --->> https://sheridanengineering.com/product/308-win-ammunition-gauge/

 

[JsnSanko]

Usually need to run it thru twice for that much bump. Imperical wax is your friend

Question on the imperial wax. I have been using Hornady One Shot for ease. Dump in a cardboard box. Spray down. Shake up. Seems to work ok. Any advantages to the Imperical Wax?

 

[Ravenworks]

Are you letting the one shot dry?

Imperial is gold standard

 

[JsnSanko]

Are you letting the one shot dry?

Imperial is gold standard

No, why? Shake it up, for a minute or so. Then start sizing.

 

[r.tenorio671]

No, why? Shake it up, for a minute or so. Then start sizing.

....."shaking it up" helps to distribute the lube on all surfaces of the cases. I use a concoction of lanolin & alcohol in a spray bottle and put the casings in 1gal freezer ziplock bag then spray a few squirts on them than just close the bag up and massage them around, open the bag and let the alcohol evaporate. I use that same bag all the time as the accumulated lanolin overspray stays in it for next use. Granted, I wet tumble after to remove the lanolin. I have never had a stuck case with that lube. When I'm setting up dies or some other kind of test, I use the Imperial was as I'm typically dealing with a single case as I measure, adjust, remeasure. The Imperial wax is absolutely "slick" and just rubbing your finger across it then rubbing the case is all that's needed, slow, but very effective.

 

[Choid]

Small base dies are dogshit that just compound the problems they are meant to solve. If you think you need a small base die to solve your problem, what you really need is to rollsize the brass.

 

[elfster1234]

Question on the imperial wax. I have been using Hornady One Shot for ease. Dump in a cardboard box. Spray down. Shake up. Seems to work ok. Any advantages to the Imperical Wax?

Check out this video of mine at time stamp 7:15

 

[Ravenworks]

No, why? Shake it up, for a minute or so. Then start sizing.

I was told to let it dry a bit.

 

[spife7980]

I was told to let it dry a bit.

You’re supposed to so the carrier can fully evaporate away so you’re not compressing liquids in the die

 

[JsnSanko]

Check out this video of mine at time stamp 7:15

Thanks for that. Including at the end cleaning the dies. I was not shown that by the person that taught me reloading. But I bet he shoots 100 rounds a year.

Good info all. Thanks. A lot of the other stuff in the video I was already doing. The lube and cleaning I think will make me a bit more consistant. Was wondering why as the count went up the brass shrunk on the length to datum over 250 cases. 1.618 down to 1.616. Chamber is 1.622 on fired from my firearm. So that was some learning there.

 

[supercorndogs]

You’re supposed to so the carrier can fully evaporate away so you’re not compressing liquids in the die

I.E-The liquid trapped will cause inconsistent sizing from case to case. It feels to me like the lube works better when the carrier has evaporated. I think not letting the carrier evaporate may be the cause of a lot of One Shot stuck cases.

 

[elfster1234]

Thanks for that. Including at the end cleaning the dies. I was not shown that by the person that taught me reloading. But I bet he shoots 100 rounds a year.

Good info all. Thanks. A lot of the other stuff in the video I was already doing. The lube and cleaning I think will make me a bit more consistant. Was wondering why as the count went up the brass shrunk on the length to datum over 250 cases. 1.618 down to 1.616. Chamber is 1.622 on fired from my firearm. So that was some learning there.

Awesome! Here is the entire 5 part start to finish finish:
5part video start to finish reloading playlist