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PRS Limiting MDs to Only 4 Matches Per Year?

lash

lash

Swamp Rat
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 28, 2012
14,067
33,193
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Central Florida
#1
MDs are being limited to only 4 matches per year for PRS in 2024.

Rumor has it that K&M is not filling all of their matches this year, 2023. Anyone think that the two are connected? Or just sheer coincidence?
 
#9
Any source for this? I checked with a local MD and they are planning more than 4 matches this year. Our new regional director runs a monthly club match at his range, and many other of our MD's run more than 4 per year. It's less than a month after the finale and we've already had 3 PRS regional points matches so far.

I could see this being a thing for Pro Series matches where there are a limited number of slots available and they try not to have matches on the same weekend, but definitely would not make sense for club matches.
 
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#10
I do not have the source for this honestly. It came from a friend who runs our local centerfire PRS matches and was grumbling that he was being limited to 4 matches instead of the 6 matches per year he normally runs. And we currently don’t run any two day matches here.

I was hoping that someone that does know could shed some light on this. Trying to shake out the truth so to speak.
 
#12
Sheldon N said:
Could possibly be a regional decision, perhaps limited space on the calendar and more MD's who want to run matches. I suspect that would be something a regional director would handle.
Click to expand...
If so, then it makes total sense. Guess which region K&M is in?

You think local PRS matches hel in central and south Florida are affecting attendance in Tennessee? I don’t. I do however think that it will encourage MDs to run more outlaw matches. I don’t think this is going to turn out like they want it to.
 
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#13
lash said:
If so, then it makes total sense. Guess which region K&M is in?

You think local PRS matches hel in central and south Florida are affecting attendance in Tennessee? I don’t. I do however think that it will encourage MDs to run more outlaw matches. I don’t think this is going to turn out like they want it to.
Click to expand...
I doubt k&m would bitch about that. Pretty sure most of the money there comes from places other than prs matches. Its way too nice of a place to pay for with a handful of matches every year
 
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#14
M4orturnate said:
I doubt k&m would bitch about that. Pretty sure most of the money there comes from places other than prs matches. Its way too nice of a place to pay for with a handful of matches every year
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You may well be correct. I know that they do a brisk military and LE business.

I still do wonder about the wisdom and reasoning behind this. Am certainly interested in hearing from someone who knows and can shed some light on that.
 
#16
Just assuming this is correct (fair chance it isn't)......

The likely reason is that it's very easy for someone to completely dominate a single club. Let's say shooter A shoots at club X. Shooter B shooters at club Y.

Shooter B is a better shooter than A, but club X is much easier. Shooter A wins three matches and goes into regional finale with 300pts. Shooter B was top 5 mostly in his much harder club and might not even stand a chance to win the regional championship with his season total. Even though Shooter B's top 5's were much harder than Shooter A's wins.

Obviously clubs can run as many matches as they want. But if true, would only be able to submit four matches for PRS points.



The end result is a possibly more fair regional point series, as well as encouraging shooters to shoot outside their local club more. Since it's very likely they will need to shoot more than 4 matches for a good season score.
 
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#17
PRS Rimfire is a textbook example. Rimfire is objectively easier than centerfire. And there are many more rimfire clubs (much easier to run rimfire matches at small ranges). So, you end up with many, many shooters who crushed their local matches for 300pts.

Going into the season finale, if you don't have 300pts, and your goal is to possibly win the series, you should just stay home and not pay for the travel. As it's almost mathematically impossible for you to overcome those with 300pts.
 
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#19
Ours has a couple of club matches that do not count for PRS points. We usually get about 20 to 25 shooter’s. At those matches I get to make it in the top 10 as compared to our PRS matches.
 
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#21
I used to run many of the CF matches here, including some of the first PRS matches held. I’ve since just focused on the .22 matches. I might be tempted to run an outlaw match or two just to do some things that are verboten in PRS, like real or modified KYL stages that require a person to actually choose or pay the consequences.

Or hostage stages where you actually lose points by hitting the hostage, like it should be. You take a bad shot, it costs you.

Or actual unknown distance stages where people are not allowed to use rangefinders. Though I admit that would be hard to do these days with everyone having a rangefinder in their pack.
 
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#22
@lash The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.
 
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#24
lash said:
I used to run many of the CF matches here, including some of the first PRS matches held. I’ve since just focused on the .22 matches. I might be tempted to run an outlaw match or two just to do some things that are verboten in PRS, like real or modified KYL stages that require a person to actually choose or pay the consequences.

Or hostage stages where you actually lose points by hitting the hostage, like it should be. You take a bad shot, it costs you.

Or actual unknown distance stages where people are not allowed to use rangefinders. Though I admit that would be hard to do these days with everyone having a rangefinder in their pack.
Click to expand...

The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.
 
#25
Rio Precision Gunworks said:
The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.
Click to expand...
Having an ego bigger than your skill should be penalized.
 
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#26
kindabitey said:
@lash The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t have to be true. We did a 22 match in northern Illinois that had an ukd stage and you were dq’d if you shared the info with anyone.
 
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#27
Rio Precision Gunworks said:
The flip side is when you have "gambling" stages. There have been plenty of matches (prior to PRS rules prohibiting) won where someone takes an "all or nothing" shot on a stage where you get zero or you get 10 points....where others chose a safer route and ended up with 4 or 6 points on a stage using a different strategy.

Of course one can argue it's no different than something like Hail Mary passes or a lucky buzzer shot in the NBA, and they wouldn't be wrong. But, PRS has the prerogative that they wish to eliminate those particular luck aspects (there's plenty of other luck aspects still in PRS). And if those prerogatives were all that detrimental, people would be voting with their wallets.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree and am neither bitching about PRS nor suggesting that anyone should change. Nor do I think that’s what everyone wants. But change and difference can be refreshing now and then.
 
#31
Geno C. said:
Doesn’t have to be true. We did a 22 match in northern Illinois that had an ukd stage and you were dq’d if you shared the info with anyone.
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We had UKD rimfire matches and here and I despise those......people cheated and if it was your first stage......you got hosed. PRS shouldn't be about luck of the draw and gamer stages.....I like it at 1 point per impact.
 
#32
J_D said:
We had UKD rimfire matches and here and I despise those......people cheated and if it was your first stage......you got hosed. PRS shouldn't be about luck of the draw and gamer stages.....I like it at 1 point per impact.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree. It’s kinda sad that PRS developed to help hide the cheating so that it’s not obvious.

It didn’t used to be that way. But since people suck, I did say that it would be difficult to do these days.

Anyway, you have the good fortune of having that option.
 
#38
But it does exist then? Are you going to spoon feed it or offer a full explanation?

Just the southeast region? Just the East? Reason?

You do realize that without factual information, rumors get started. That’s what this thread was started in order to illustrate. Keeping members informed just makes sense.
 
#40
Mormegil87 said:
I can say with 100% certainty it is not a PRS wide policy as of an hour ago.

It is a decision for a region. If you want more details, contact your MD buddy or the regional director and ask, rather than hopping on the hide.
Click to expand...
Or maybe the PRS regional management should communicate with their members. Making it so that people find out by word of mouth or forcing them to make special efforts to find out facts is stupid. Maybe you don’t get that.

Hopping on the Hide was to get someone to open up. What we have so far is a smattering of information and then we get to fill in the blanks.

How is that so hard to get? As one person, I could do a whole bunch of scrounging around for the full story and likely would get the same dancing around the subject that I’ve gotten so far.

That might satisfy me, but what about everyone else that catches wind of it?

Is this some super secret thing that must be held close to the vest? That’s how it sounds so far.

I’m doing the communicating that those that should be aren’t doing. If I get it wrong, then that’s on you and PRS regional management.
 
#41
It's on me? I'm not PRS Regional management. I'm just a guy with connections that had some info pass along.

There are a number of reasons that info hasn't been put out. Maybe they are still finalizing details of the policy? Maybe they are solidifying schedules first, so they can release it all at once rather than piecemeal. It's possible that the 4 matches is just a starting point as here2learn posted above.

As a shooter, I don't need to know if a 4 match policy is in place or not. I just need to look at the schedule and see how many I can make it to.
 
#42
Here2Learn said:
as it pertains to the southeast there is no 4 match cap. MDs start by submitting 4 matches they want to be affiliated with the PRS and we go from there. A MD can hold as many matches as they want, but the PRS tries to balance shooter demand within a region. if a facility runs 20 matches a year, it doesn’t make sense for them to all be PRS affiliated matches. More than likely they would have minimum attendance.
Click to expand...
Ah, so we’re getting somewhere. So that’s a change from the previous 2023 season then.

Let’s say though for arguments sake that a club has been running 6 matches per season, and gets full attendance at them all, which has been quite normal in the region for the past three/four years. That’s a bit different than the sorta extreme examples you used. But I get it.

This is to try and get larger attendance numbers at each match in the southeast region, right? Yes? No?

Nothing to do with falling attendance at some larger matches?
 
#43
Mormegil87 said:
It's on me? I'm not PRS Regional management. I'm just a guy with connections that had some info pass along.

There are a number of reasons that info hasn't been put out. Maybe they are still finalizing details of the policy? Maybe they are solidifying schedules first, so they can release it all at once rather than piecemeal. It's possible that the 4 matches is just a starting point as here2learn posted above.

As a shooter, I don't need to know if a 4 match policy is in place or not. I just need to look at the schedule and see how many I can make it to.
Click to expand...
I know, I know. I should just be a good little member and toe the line and keep my thoughts and questions to myself. Not stir the pot. Don’t worry about the things I’m not supposed to worry about.

Just sign up and spend my money. Don’t concern myself about the man behind the curtain sorta thing, right?

Gotcha. 👍🏻
 
#44
Or have a little patience or as suggested maybe contact your regional director.

You made a statement. You didnt ask if the PRS was limiting the number of matches a range could hold. You made and posted an assumption that it was because K&M wasn't filling 2023 matches, despite both the Kahles PRC and GAP Grind both sold out. It would appear, that you came here first, to stir the pot.
 
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#45
Mormegil87 said:
Or have a little patience or as suggested maybe contact your regional director.

You made a statement. You didnt ask if the PRS was limiting the number of matches a range could hold. You made and posted an assumption that it was because K&M wasn't filling 2023 matches, despite both the Kahles PRC and GAP Grind both sold out. It would appear, that you came here first, to stir the pot.
Click to expand...
Okay, you convinced me. I’ll wait in line for my ration of information…
 
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#47
Mormegil87 said:
Why not contact your regional director and get a direct answer? It's seems to me like a pretty reasonable suggestion.
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Sure does. Funny that you can’t actually share that information yourself. Sure, sure, I get it that it’s all on the down low, not settled, may change, etc.

See, I actually was in management for much of my career and I found that when people are treated like adults and not classroom children with favorites and all that entails, then people respect and understand decisions.

What you fail to understand is that I am asking a reasonable question. When I’m told that I should go directly to the regional manager and ask that question, that tells me immediately that I will be fed a line or if I get the truth I’ll be asked to keep it quiet until it’s the right time. Secrets in a vacuum.

Sort of like hiw our government is run. We’re in a ‘need to know’ basis situation and we don’t need to know, in someone’s estimation.
 
#48
lash said:
Sure does. Funny that you can’t actually share that information yourself. Sure, sure, I get it that it’s all on the down low, not settled, may change, etc.

See, I actually was in management for much of my career and I found that when people are treated like adults and not classroom children with favorites and all that entails, then people respect and understand decisions.

What you fail to understand is that I am asking a reasonable question. When I’m told that I should go directly to the regional manager and ask that question, that tells me immediately that I will be fed a line or if I get the truth I’ll be asked to keep it quiet until it’s the right time. Secrets in a vacuum.

Sort of like hiw our government is run. We’re in a ‘need to know’ basis situation and we don’t need to know, in someone’s estimation.
Click to expand...
I can't share it because I don't know it. I don't care to know it. We don't have a policy like that in my region, even if we did I'm still going to shoot the matches I want to shoot. It doesn't matter if they are PRS or not or if it's at different ranges.

The info I know, I shared, because I was privy to that info.

You didnt ask a question, you made a statement, followed up by several assumptions about the reasoning for the possible policy.
 
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#49
https://tenor.com/bgriF.gif

Your haircut op? Jk, but on a serious note, just chill. People have stuff to do and like grilling and napping. We live in a world where Cell phones make people want information at that exact moment at that exact time in an exact way. Step away from the phone and go fishing.
 
#50
kindabitey said:
The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.
Click to expand...
I’d love to see UKD & variations of UKD

Hang a 2moa square target with a 3moa square target below it, but with the lower target 24” closer to shooter with a slight overlap/no gap. 4 or 6 shots, 60 seconds. Top plate is 2 or 3 points, lower 1 point.

Gives shooter option of sacrificing 2 points to get a first hit on the lower larger target & check range/correct.

This stage is called the Raw Dog
 
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