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PRS Limiting MDs to Only 4 Matches Per Year?

Why not contact your regional director and get a direct answer? It's seems to me like a pretty reasonable suggestion.
Sure does. Funny that you can’t actually share that information yourself. Sure, sure, I get it that it’s all on the down low, not settled, may change, etc.

See, I actually was in management for much of my career and I found that when people are treated like adults and not classroom children with favorites and all that entails, then people respect and understand decisions.

What you fail to understand is that I am asking a reasonable question. When I’m told that I should go directly to the regional manager and ask that question, that tells me immediately that I will be fed a line or if I get the truth I’ll be asked to keep it quiet until it’s the right time. Secrets in a vacuum.

Sort of like hiw our government is run. We’re in a ‘need to know’ basis situation and we don’t need to know, in someone’s estimation.
 
Sure does. Funny that you can’t actually share that information yourself. Sure, sure, I get it that it’s all on the down low, not settled, may change, etc.

See, I actually was in management for much of my career and I found that when people are treated like adults and not classroom children with favorites and all that entails, then people respect and understand decisions.

What you fail to understand is that I am asking a reasonable question. When I’m told that I should go directly to the regional manager and ask that question, that tells me immediately that I will be fed a line or if I get the truth I’ll be asked to keep it quiet until it’s the right time. Secrets in a vacuum.

Sort of like hiw our government is run. We’re in a ‘need to know’ basis situation and we don’t need to know, in someone’s estimation.
I can't share it because I don't know it. I don't care to know it. We don't have a policy like that in my region, even if we did I'm still going to shoot the matches I want to shoot. It doesn't matter if they are PRS or not or if it's at different ranges.

The info I know, I shared, because I was privy to that info.

You didnt ask a question, you made a statement, followed up by several assumptions about the reasoning for the possible policy.
 
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https://tenor.com/bgriF.gif

Your haircut op? Jk, but on a serious note, just chill. People have stuff to do and like grilling and napping. We live in a world where Cell phones make people want information at that exact moment at that exact time in an exact way. Step away from the phone and go fishing.
 
The UKD thing would be tough. The only person who may get hosed on it would be the first person in a squad, after that, everyone else will know the distance, unless it's a truly blind stage.
I’d love to see UKD & variations of UKD

Hang a 2moa square target with a 3moa square target below it, but with the lower target 24” closer to shooter with a slight overlap/no gap. 4 or 6 shots, 60 seconds. Top plate is 2 or 3 points, lower 1 point.

Gives shooter option of sacrificing 2 points to get a first hit on the lower larger target & check range/correct.

This stage is called the Raw Dog
 
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Ah, so we’re getting somewhere. So that’s a change from the previous 2023 season then.

Let’s say though for arguments sake that a club has been running 6 matches per season, and gets full attendance at them all, which has been quite normal in the region for the past three/four years. That’s a bit different than the sorta extreme examples you used. But I get it.

This is to try and get larger attendance numbers at each match in the southeast region, right? Yes? No?

Nothing to do with falling attendance at some larger matches?

I could see it going both ways. I'll use the "easy" example again in a different way. Club A has 6 matches per year and Club B has 6 matches per year. They are close enough they share enough shooters to be significant. All 6 matches for both clubs are for PRS regional points in the same region.

Club A's matches are significantly easier and that results in more shooters showing up for easier PRS points.


There's a couple ways to view this as league management:

- Just let people vote with their wallet. Do nothing.

- We're trying to create a competitive environment as well as make sure there are still enough "easy" matches for the newer or more casual shooters. We will limit some matches enough that people who want points will have to go to other venues, and the casual shooters can still shoot the "easy" match even though its not for PRS points this month......as they don't care about the points.


Now, there's obviously other things like a larger venue losing attendance because other clubs start hosting matches more local to some shooters, which in turn means less shooters travel further to the larger venues. Now things get a bit dicey. One could argue that the large establishment has been around longer and will continue to be around, so it may be worth looking into how to possibly "protect" the venue. The problem is always going to be criticisms of favoritism and such. Which is tough.


I'm sure most of us have seen local shooter communities "harmed" by too many clubs. Meaning you have one or two clubs that have pretty good attendance (say 50 or so per month. clubs with 80+ or more a month are a totally different animal).......and are doing things pretty well overall. But for whatever reason one, two, or three clubs pop up in the vicinity. Now those 50 shooters a month have other options which seems good on its face. But they can't just shoot every weekend (most can't, some can) and they have to choose where to shoot.

Next thing you know, you now have three matches a month that have 20 or less shooters. People stop showing up since so small, or an MD stops the good match because it's not worth their time anymore for 20 or less. Then that area/region has to rebuild everything once they all die out. Happens fairly often.



So, as a regional director of a league, you may find yourself in a tough spot when say K&M (just saying that because you used it as an example) starts losing attendance because smaller clubs start popping up that syphon shooters. If the reason is because people don't like the K&M matches, so be it. But if the reason is simple due to locality and such......you're in a much, much tougher spot.

If you as a regional director believe there's a fair chance that the other clubs will fizzle out, but K&M will still be there when the dust settles, you may find that it's in the league/region's best interest to impose limits as to not destabilize the region.



Not saying any of these scenarios are what's happening. Just that things can be much, much more complicated that someone just watching out for a range like K&M. Regardless if they are right or wrong, they may actually be attempting to make tough decisions they believe are in the best interest of the region/league in the long run.
 
MDs are being limited to only 4 matches per year for PRS in 2024.

Rumor has it that K&M is not filling all of their matches this year, 2023. Anyone think that the two are connected? Or just sheer coincidence?
Trolled, and got the pissing match you were hoping for . Bravo !
 
This thread has turned into rambling arguments in typical SH fashion, but there is NOT a 4 match limit in 2024. I am on the MD committee and have heard nothing of the sort.
No way, the op heard the news from 2 friends, who heard it from 4 friends, who made it up with 6 friends. How could the information be wrong?
 
No way, the op heard the news from 2 friends, who heard it from 4 friends, who made it up with 6 friends. How could the information be wrong?
Hahaha! Super funny, but childish and stupid.

Also, you can’t read. But thanks for the laugh.
 
Thanks for your info. What region?
I'm in the NW region, so I suppose it is possible that this has been discussed within a different region and their supporting MDs. But nothing on the national scale, nor changes to the rules that are discussed in committee and then published at the end of each season.
You sure about that?
See above
 
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I'm in the NW region, so I suppose it is possible that this has been discussed within a different region and their supporting MDs. But nothing on the national scale, nor changes to the rules that are discussed in committee and then published at the end of each season.

See above
It’s only the SE region
 
It’s only the SE region
If true, then the thread title and first several posts need to be edited since this is misleading at best and a senseless drama starter at worst. If the SE decides amongst themselves to limit venues to 4 matches thats on them. But it IS NOT a PRS rule that affects anywhere else.
 
If true, then the thread title and first several posts need to be edited since this is misleading at best and a senseless drama starter at worst. If the SE decides amongst themselves to limit venues to 4 matches thats on them. But it IS NOT a PRS rule that affects anywhere else.
If prs enforces it, then isn’t it a prs rule?
 
If true, then the thread title and first several posts need to be edited since this is misleading at best and a senseless drama starter at worst. If the SE decides amongst themselves to limit venues to 4 matches thats on them. But it IS NOT a PRS rule that affects anywhere else.

That wouldn't matter all that much in the grand scheme.

If PRS allows the region to do it, then that is the same as supporting/encouraging it. That's also how national rules get "tested." Seeing how it works in smaller regions. So, yes, a rule in a single region absolutely should be known to everyone. As it could easily impact everyone in PRS.

Not saying it's a good or bad rule. But the thread title and first few posts aint that big a deal.
 
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Also, this thread is quite tame and not all that bad. Things would be far more productive everywhere if threads were similar.
 
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It's good to keep in mind that that the decisions that come out of the PRS organization are largely influenced and decided by all the match directors who vote on these sort of things.
 
If it is in the SE only I wonder how Pigg River would run their matches and allow Andy and Brian to run their matches at the same location.

Because Pigg is in the Atlantic Coast Region. They kicked VA, NC, and SC out of the SE Region a few years ago.

I'm honestly a little surprised you know the VPRC guys and don't know the AC region is a thing.
 
This may be a silly question and I apologize if it's in the wrong thread.
How does one find out what matches are worth points for PRS?
Or, how do I find out how the points system works?
I've shot many matches, in and out of my division and sometimes I never see my PRS score change?
Appreciate the input.
 
This may be a silly question and I apologize if it's in the wrong thread.
How does one find out what matches are worth points for PRS?
Or, how do I find out how the points system works?
I've shot many matches, in and out of my division and sometimes I never see my PRS score change?
Appreciate the input.
 
This may be a silly question and I apologize if it's in the wrong thread.
How does one find out what matches are worth points for PRS?
Or, how do I find out how the points system works?
I've shot many matches, in and out of my division and sometimes I never see my PRS score change?
Appreciate the input.
You may not be awarded points if your PRS ID is entered wrong also.

If not you have to manually claim your score on the PRS website.
 
I never thought I was overly smart, however, I never could find any info on the scoring in the PRS site, I even asked, and it got blurrier. All I know id 300 is the magic number, and I'm not there yet.
 
I'm guessing I still don't understand it. My score has been the same for the last three months. I shot a match a couple of weeks ago, still in the 2023 season, better than I have shot before, and my score never changed.
https://www.precisionrifleseries.com/faq-1/

See the first one. Hit claim a score. Select your name from the match you wish to claim a score from. Wait a day or 2. Done.
 
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I never thought I was overly smart, however, I never could find any info on the scoring in the PRS site, I even asked, and it got blurrier. All I know id 300 is the magic number, and I'm not there yet.
Not to sound stupid but you do know the magic number is for your best 3 matches
 
Over the summer during my travels, I spoke to several PRS match directors and competitors, the most in-depth conversation I had was with Ryan from Big Dog... it's pretty much considered the average PRS member has a 3 year life span before being burned out, or just fading away because of the tempo.

They never thought it through and they just raced to the bank vs building a sustainable system. It can continue for a long time puttering along and have a semi healthy following of bowling shooters, the guys who don't really care and just want to hang out because the matches are close enough. But it's getting apparent nobody benefited from this model but the guys at the top.

Grow the sport was a punch line, not a mission statement, it was grow my bank accounts while pushing off responsibility and failing to create an actual sport.
 
Getting back to the subject at hand. Nice way to limit participation is to limit the number of matches. Normal progression is to allow those to hold matches and sooner or later, the weaker, poorly attended matches will fall by the wayside.

Of course, we could do what the American Waterski Association does and make one qualify to shoot at certain matches. That really puts a damper on the middle to lower scoring groups. Makes a fellow want to find something else to do.

All this is bound to put a damper on the sport. The key word is “limit.”

What everyone seems to miss, and some of us old timers have seen in other sports is the progression of a sport.

Waterskiing. In the 1950’s it was the hottest thing going. Even got articles written in the National Geographic about the sport. Had a really nice Professional tour in the 1980’s - 1990’s. Unfortunately two things happened. First, water skiing is a hard sport to learn. The competitive aspects are Really Hard. Costs Lots and Lots of money to boot. As I said, started out the hottest thing going. Participation leveled out and then with other sports and an aging participation base, it has fallen to the wayside.

Remember Cowboy action shooting? It all but killed most other shooting sports. But it was danged expensive. And, it became a game, favoring teenage shooters. Expensive yes, teenagers with lots of money, no, older shooters were no longer competitive, yep they still shoot CAS, but nothing like was seen 20 years ago. And it truly was expensive.

I am a former match director in IHMSA. Started out with a bang in the 70’s. Was so big that one had to make a reservation to shoot at a match. Matches started at daybreak and finished when it was too dark to shoot and still not everyone got to shoot. That was the 1980’s. My matches, basically created to try to bring the sport back to North Louisiana, first (with a free meal, and a ten buck entry fee) brought 20 to 25 entries. The last two matches, only Brenda and I showed up.

See the pattern, gets started, people find out about it and it seems like fun, sport explodes, competitors start getting old, loose interest because they simply are not capable of being competitive and it all tapers off.

Some still go strong, but in shooting sports where the competition is hard or one particular group starts to dominate, it all goes away.

I hope I am not predicting the future of PRS, but at 75, with only 25 - 30 more years left to live, I may not see it.
JFC here we go off on the watersking bullshit again.

There are reasons to limit matches and reasons not to. The bigger issue is politics coming into play, people trying to rule their little sand castle and like frank said, clicques. Some people have seen behind the curtain and the shit that has gone down with PRS over the last decade. Some good, some great, some bad, some terrible. I still think its a great organization but we should always be striving to make it better, make it more accessible and more standardized so it can be taken seriously as a sport
 
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Over the summer during my travels, I spoke to several PRS match directors and competitors, the most in-depth conversation I had was with Ryan from Big Dog... it's pretty much considered the average PRS member has a 3 year life span before being burned out, or just fading away because of the tempo.

They never thought it through and they just raced to the bank vs building a sustainable system. It can continue for a long time puttering along and have a semi healthy following of bowling shooters, the guys who don't really care and just want to hang out because the matches are close enough. But it's getting apparent nobody benefited from this model but the guys at the top.

Grow the sport was a punch line, not a mission statement, it was grow my bank accounts while pushing off responsibility and failing to create an actual sport.
Do you think with Shannon selling of majority share to Ken things will change?

Shannon did some despicable shit between trying to kill NRL and putting MD's into a really tough spot.

IMO the best thing that could happen is the officiating body become a non profit, and all money raised goes into making the events better, developing more ranges and supporting MDs. I always wonder if companies would be more willing to donate products and cash to an organization if they knew most of the money rolling in is going to support the sport, not as pure profit to the owners so they can turn their home range into something like a country club.

I look at what guardian is able to accomplish and wonder if something similar could happen with PRS, with a portion of the proceeds going towards a charity we all can support.
 
Holy shit people, we’re still at this? I reached out and found out that none of this is even true. This whole thread is baseless, hearsay, and conjecture. All anyone who was curious had to do was ask the regional director or someone else in the know. It took me 45 seconds to find their contact info and figure this out. But I guess it’s easier to keep dogpiling on a thread where several people in the know have already called it out for not being true.
 
I'm guessing I still don't understand it. My score has been the same for the last three months. I shot a match a couple of weeks ago, still in the 2023 season, better than I have shot before, and my score never changed.
If your hit % relative to the winner is not higher than previous ones your score will not change.
 
Getting back to the subject at hand. Nice way to limit participation is to limit the number of matches. Normal progression is to allow those to hold matches and sooner or later, the weaker, poorly attended matches will fall by the wayside.

Of course, we could do what the American Waterski Association does and make one qualify to shoot at certain matches. That really puts a damper on the middle to lower scoring groups. Makes a fellow want to find something else to do.

All this is bound to put a damper on the sport. The key word is “limit.”

What everyone seems to miss, and some of us old timers have seen in other sports is the progression of a sport.

Waterskiing. In the 1950’s it was the hottest thing going. Even got articles written in the National Geographic about the sport. Had a really nice Professional tour in the 1980’s - 1990’s. Unfortunately two things happened. First, water skiing is a hard sport to learn. The competitive aspects are Really Hard. Costs Lots and Lots of money to boot. As I said, started out the hottest thing going. Participation leveled out and then with other sports and an aging participation base, it has fallen to the wayside.

Remember Cowboy action shooting? It all but killed most other shooting sports. But it was danged expensive. And, it became a game, favoring teenage shooters. Expensive yes, teenagers with lots of money, no, older shooters were no longer competitive, yep they still shoot CAS, but nothing like was seen 20 years ago. And it truly was expensive.

I am a former match director in IHMSA. Started out with a bang in the 70’s. Was so big that one had to make a reservation to shoot at a match. Matches started at daybreak and finished when it was too dark to shoot and still not everyone got to shoot. That was the 1980’s. My matches, basically created to try to bring the sport back to North Louisiana, first (with a free meal, and a ten buck entry fee) brought 20 to 25 entries. The last two matches, only Brenda and I showed up.

See the pattern, gets started, people find out about it and it seems like fun, sport explodes, competitors start getting old, loose interest because they simply are not capable of being competitive and it all tapers off.

Some still go strong, but in shooting sports where the competition is hard or one particular group starts to dominate, it all goes away.

I hope I am not predicting the future of PRS, but at 75, with only 25 - 30 more years left to live, I may not see it.

Every successful sport or game limits participation from the lowest level all the way to the highest levels. Ever single one.


Now, we can talk about which types of limitations are good and bad....that's fine. But to just blanketly say that limits are bad....has been proven wrong historically in most every instance.
 
Holy shit people, we’re still at this? I reached out and found out that none of this is even true. This whole thread is baseless, hearsay, and conjecture. All anyone who was curious had to do was ask the regional director or someone else in the know. It took me 45 seconds to find their contact info and figure this out. But I guess it’s easier to keep dogpiling on a thread where several people in the know have already called it out for not being true.

You said a region is limiting. So, all that isn't "true" is that it isn't currently a national level thing.

But, that doesn't mean it won't be. And it doesn't hurt to discuss the implications if it were to find its way into national rules. Plenty of rules in PRS and other games started out at a regional level.

This thread isn't hurting PRS in any way.
 
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Do you think with Shannon selling of majority share to Ken things will change?

Shannon did some despicable shit between trying to kill NRL and putting MD's into a really tough spot.

IMO the best thing that could happen is the officiating body become a non profit, and all money raised goes into making the events better, developing more ranges and supporting MDs. I always wonder if companies would be more willing to donate products and cash to an organization if they knew most of the money rolling in is going to support the sport, not as pure profit to the owners so they can turn their home range into something like a country club.

I look at what guardian is able to accomplish and wonder if something similar could happen with PRS, with a portion of the proceeds going towards a charity we all can support.

Between internal conversations in our business and discussions with other businesses.......to be completely honest, very few really look too far into things very deeply.

It's basically a decision based on the amount of ROI we/they believe donating something will have. As long as the organization isn't inherently terrible/bad/not moral (PRS isn't even close to that bad).....it doesn't matter much exactly how the owners of the league make their profit.....as long as the donated product will garner enough advertising to make up the lost revenue.

Of course something as pure charity as Guardian will get some extra consideration.....there's only so much room for that. Companies will donate some extra stuff because the cause is a really good one like Guardian.....but at a certain point, it still comes back to dollars and cents.
 
You said a region is limiting. So, all that isn't "true" is that it isn't currently a national level thing.

But, that doesn't mean it won't be. And it doesn't hurt to discuss the implications if it were to find its way into national rules. Plenty of rules in PRS and other games started out at a regional level.

This thread isn't hurting PRS in any way.
You need reading comprehension skills. I never said a region is limiting. Someone else did. I said it was “possible” but that it wasn’t nation wide. I then checked and the SE is NOT doing that. It doesn’t even affect me but nobody in this thread was willing to ask or figure it out. Now I’m telling you that no regions or national PRS are limiting venues. Hence this thread is a retarded waste of time. You can discuss the pros/cons sure, but the thread starts off by repeating hearsay that simply isn’t true. Start a new thread if you want to bash or praise PRS, I don’t care. But don’t feed rumors that have been proven incorrect.
 
You need reading comprehension skills. I never said a region is limiting. Someone else did. I said it was “possible” but that it wasn’t nation wide. I then checked and the SE is NOT doing that. It doesn’t even affect me but nobody in this thread was willing to ask or figure it out. Now I’m telling you that no regions or national PRS are limiting venues. Hence this thread is a retarded waste of time. You can discuss the pros/cons sure, but the thread starts off by repeating hearsay that simply isn’t true. Start a new thread if you want to bash or praise PRS, I don’t care. But don’t feed rumors that have been proven incorrect.
Who did you check with? I believe I did check and probably higher up the food chain.