I've often wondered that lol. How much 'drift' or 'creep' there was overall in metrology devices used by the NIST. Is theirs right? Checked by whos? lol
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Toughest scope mounts?
- Thread starter Mj30wilson900
- Start date
There are still some rings out there that must be lapped unfortunately. For ex the old issue A.R.M.S rings that were issued in the Army a while back. I was buying some a few years back, even after reading that thread on here that was trying to warn people off from that company. Yep, they were right. Those rings were ALLLL KINDS of fucked up on multiple planes or axis. Lapping only help one axis, but still had to do it. I still find rings from time to time that arent perfectly round, and would squeeze the scope tube from top to bottom if they arent lapped.
If a mount can’t take a small difference in a torque wrench variance then it’s a piece of shit to begin with. Definitely not tough.
Remember years back no one used torque wrenches but we seemed to not have our mounts break. lol Now we worry about double and triple calibrations. Lol
Remember years back no one used torque wrenches but we seemed to not have our mounts break. lol Now we worry about double and triple calibrations. Lol
Toughest? Seems like 419 is a pretty clear winner here. They've done plenty of stunts to prove their point.
Runner ups in my opinion:
Hawkins (my personal favorite)
Gray ops (holy balls are they proud of it)
Badger
Seekins
I'm probably forgetting a few.
ARC has been pretty weak in my experience. Mine and a buddy's MBrace mounts cracked and broke right at the hinge with no major impacts. My going theory is cold temps caused it. The LRF bridge is tough as hell but the rings, not so much.
Runner ups in my opinion:
Hawkins (my personal favorite)
Gray ops (holy balls are they proud of it)
Badger
Seekins
I'm probably forgetting a few.
ARC has been pretty weak in my experience. Mine and a buddy's MBrace mounts cracked and broke right at the hinge with no major impacts. My going theory is cold temps caused it. The LRF bridge is tough as hell but the rings, not so much.
I've heard a couple reports of this, but haven't seen any pictures-- and I'd love to see some if you have them. It's fairly obvious the expected failure point of the ARC design would occur in hinge pins themselves or in the "fingers" for the hinge pins in the base or rings caps. I have yet to have any failures in my sample size (10 mounts and 1 set of rings.) Not saying the ARC design can't fail, but they appear to be failing at a far lower rate than say scalarworks where you can easily find lots of pictures of broken ring hinges. If I had one of my ARCs fail I'd switch brands again, just like I did with Spuhr, only this time I'm not waiting until I have a 45% failure rate to change brands, lol
How cold was it when you had the failures? Several of my M-brace mounts have seen lots of use and bouncing around on quads and side by sides with heavy razor gen 3s and S&B 5-25s down in the 15-30f range for a couple years now with no issues, but that's not as cold as is it gets elsewhere...
I suppose if I really wanted to torture test them I could stick them in a thermal chamber here at work... they'll go down to -321F, but that's a bit excessive, lol.
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Post #64
I've only seen 2 break like this personally, but I've read plenty of reports of this happening to others. Really a shame. Cool company and a good price point for an otherwise good product. Temps were in the 0°F to -10°F range. Mine went first, then a couple weeks later my buddy's did the same shit.
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Nist goes to some insane precision. Im a person that regularly goes to +-0.0001" and have made offsets of 0.00003" on diameters. Their stuff is crazy.
Veritasium went further (in previous videos) into how the change went from masses to the newer definition.
The crazy part of that is a unit of measure can technically change over time because the standard we use to define it can change super slightly over time.
Thanks for that, exactly as I expected a failure to look and where to occur. Wonder if they got some bad material combined with a design that leaves minimal margin in that area especially if there's some material or process variability.
I may have to turn one of my ARC mounts into a test piece, come up with a test fixture, and subject it to some impacts between say 70 to -50F...
I'll continue to run mine up until I have a failure; at this point they have proved far more reliable than Spuhr for me.
Except that the true standard for all units traces back to a physical constant that doesn't change. The kilogram was the last based on a physical object. Dig into Veritasium's videos. Search "Veritasium kilogram" on YouTube and watch from oldest to newest. "Veritasium nist" is another good one.
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Well I went Area 419. After reading the comments and scanning numerous mounts I found that I wanted 7075 aluminum with hard anodized coating and stainless hardware. These are line bored together and serialized all of which is time consuming but is done above and beyond I feel. I saw some of the you tube videos about these that impressed me so hopefully they work well for me. Thank you for all the suggestions.
Hawkins was my second choice as I hear a lot of pros using their stuff as of late.
Hawkins was my second choice as I hear a lot of pros using their stuff as of late.
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You don't buy a new one every time? Peasant.
Yes, plus cerakote, etc. I know ERATAC takes them, but somebody ghosted me when I tried to order. Not mentioning any names…euroconnor
They have a new modular mount coming out. Should be awesome! Everything Hawkins is first class.
First of all they aren't $600, they are $500. They have qd mounts that cost more but the basic mount is like $515, up from 475.
Second, about 25% of that is customs duty. They used to be 375 before mile high or whoever got caught not paying import duty on them and had to pay a check that I heard a rumor was around 1.5m in back duties (which could be bs) , but either way a big cost is because they are made overseas in a first world nation and unlike shit from China and Asia they aren't skirting the law. Grey ops are $400 and that's without any import fee. They actually cost more than a spuhr when you compare them that way.
3rd the issues are mostly fixed. They redesigned the clamp bar years ago, which was the most likely failure point. The fastners are softish but that is probably by design. Better to break a faster or a bar than the actual machined mount.
If you aren't a thoughtless gorilla you will most likely never have any issues. Use some common sense, torque tools and not to many ugah ugahs.
I have mounts from spuhr, badger, Hawkins, grey ops and 419. They all work well. However in the future I will probably be buying 419 mounts. IMO they are the best designed and machined as well as being a very good price point. Hard to beat them right now. Fit and finish is above the rest.
I own Badger, NF, Hawkins, MPA, MDT, and AADMOUNT one piece mounts. I haven't tested them but based off beefiness and type of material used I'd guess the AADMOUNT would be the toughest because it's super thick in all the right areas and made completely of 7075-T6 where most other mounts main bodies are made of 6061 except for maybe the high end NF mounts, Badger condition one, and Area 419.
The AADMOUNT is definitely beefier than the NF and Area 419 and it shows in weight and you'd probably have to beat the shit out of any of these to actually know if one was actually tougher. I would probably go NF or Badger since I've personally gotten fucked up stuff from Area 419 with lack luster customer service and AADMOUNT are very hard to come by.
The AADMOUNT is definitely beefier than the NF and Area 419 and it shows in weight and you'd probably have to beat the shit out of any of these to actually know if one was actually tougher. I would probably go NF or Badger since I've personally gotten fucked up stuff from Area 419 with lack luster customer service and AADMOUNT are very hard to come by.
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Agree on these.
There are all sorts of fancy attachments schemes for both the rail to mount/ring interface, as well as for the ring itself.
I have a hard time understanding how they are somehow dramatically superior to a through bolt with a large hex nut for the mount/rail, and a 4 (or 6) bolt cap for the ring.
I can't imagine a scenario where an appropriately machined mount/ring of the above material wouldn't be stronger than the scope it is holding.
As such many manufacturer's products are adequate for this. The last few mounts I have purchased have been a Geissele, as they can found on sale frequently, and an Area 419, as that application needed a diving board mount.
For the diving board, the Area 419 has a good attachment interface, and has not had any issues with coming loose.
I would put a Seekins LRF mount into the mix. They are solid.
Badger MAX - Seekins - Grey Ops - AREA 419
Badger MAX - Seekins - Grey Ops - AREA 419
Never tried a Seekins mount but if they are like their rings then they are excellent and will be more than tough enough. Seekins has a great rep and for a good reason.
I usually don't use my rifle to beat or pry things; I mainly use it to shoot. The scope will break before any high-quality mount will. But I guess if you need the world's "toughest scope mount," then carry on.
Mile High seems to think Spuhr mounts are ok; they are still selling them. Just because there have been a small number of failures doesn't imply that the brand is flawed.
Agreed. I have had the clamp bar crack on 3 different mounts. MHSA sends a free 2-piece replacement buts it’s still annoying. No my first recommendation anymore.
Why would someone even bother trying one/risking when you can save a couple hundred bucks and buy a mount from an other brand that has a better track record and might even be lighter.
It’s insane to spend the extra $$ on Spuhr these days.
Which makes it funny when people are making fun of the OP, “why do you need the most durable mount? Any mount will be more durable than any optic you put in it.”
I would trust the new SPUHR mounts. But with that said, Area 419 mounts are awful hard to beat. Depending on what rifle/optic combo I’d also consider, Badger, Seekins, Retillia, Geissele. Pretty sure GDI is still kicking too.
Funny you said this. The last 3 mounts I purchased were badger, Reptilia, area 419.
Me too!! Area 419 on a Seekins SP-10, Badger C1 on an LMT MRP & Reptillia on an SR-15. The Badger C1 and Reptillia are very similar. That Area 419 though…. Chef’s kiss
I agree but I have had more than my share of mounts where the scope moved or they had a crack start to form during usage. I just want a easy button and buy once cry once. I have a spuhr on another rifle and it has done just fine but their are a lot of new companies that are producing great stuff and wanted to know a ring or mount that could withstand some abuse.
I'd love to see this ASAP but I think we'll be lucky to see it released before 2027
I must have well over 12-15 Spuhrs at this time, and never ever had an issue.
Have only tried on 419, and it worked so far but I prefer what I'm used to.
So my vote is on Spuhr.
Have only tried on 419, and it worked so far but I prefer what I'm used to.
So my vote is on Spuhr.
Oh ok. Can you tell me how many Spuhr mounts are in service and how many have failed? You’ve got to know those numbers to make the statement that you did.
I agree got to know the numbers. Companies make design changes and revision changes for the betterment of products all the time. Spuhr is making it right by sending replacements. Still a great mount but at that price I was looking for an alternative option.
I know there are continuous threads about Spuhr clamping rails breaking to include the new ones. Maybe there’s 3rd revision now ? Plus the top caps cracking. Plus binding scopes up.
How many threads have you seen with similar about G , Nightforce , Badger , tier 1 , etc.
There’s a LOT of Badger and NF mounts out there. You might hear about 1-2 failures.
The side clamp design is a lot beefier on the current generation. More material and the screws are now countersunk instead of sitting on the top.
I don't have any experience with them yet. Have a new Spuhr mount sitting at home waiting for a scope. First impression seems very solid.
Also they are the only manufacturer with more than two height options. If you want a cantilever lower than 1.5" i couldnt find an alternative.
Here in Europe, all "high end'ish" mounts are around 400€ and above. But the US made stuff is hard to get sometimes.
I don't have any experience with them yet. Have a new Spuhr mount sitting at home waiting for a scope. First impression seems very solid.
Also they are the only manufacturer with more than two height options. If you want a cantilever lower than 1.5" i couldnt find an alternative.
Here in Europe, all "high end'ish" mounts are around 400€ and above. But the US made stuff is hard to get sometimes.
True but top dog always gets the most hate. Added to that the cost of their product being the highest tier pricing.
How many people who had problems admit they did something wrong or didn’t torque properly. It’s all unproven. Don’t doubt the failures but no one has come out with a video showing proper setup and the spuhr failing.
Don't know why people are in such denial about the Spuhrs being such a shit product. They ALL crack in the same spot. I really don't think proper torquing is going to help with this issue. It's a design/material issue. I get it, you spent good money on a product thinking it's the best on the market. But it's not, so you have to defend it.
I’m just going to be over here saving 50% $$ and getting a better product, e.g. Area 419, Badger, NF, etc.
Well I did go area 419 mainly due to their you tube videos and recommendations.
