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Bergara issues

Grizzgup

Private
Minuteman
Mar 2, 2025
11
6
PA
Hello all,

I have a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5cm. I’m loading 41.5G H4350 under 140g Berger Hybrid using starline LR brass. At 100 yards it’s shooting one hole. At 200 it’s shooting 4”. What’s going on? The only thing I can figure is it doesn’t like that node past 100yds. I’m 15-20k off jam (anywhere in that range holds great at 100yds) which is why I thought it’d do well at 200. Any thoughts would be appreciated
 
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What optic are you using ... and have you checked the mounting ... and have you tried a different optic? Frankly, "same hole" at 100-yards and "4 inch groups" at 200 yards doesn't feel like it's a reloading technique or component issue. But that's just my experiences. Final question ... are you checking velocity, and if so, how is it tracking on these reloads? If you're getting stable velocities, then this is even weirder.
 
If it's really shooting large sample size groups well at 100 yards, it should also shoot the same MOA sized groups at 200 yards. It's not an issue with the rifle or the load.

A large extreme spread in velocity won't show vertical dispersion until several hundred yards out.

It could be Parallax error in your scope, you should check that. The last place we want to check is the shooter itself, but that's often the cause.

I used to shoot bug holes at 100 with my AI, but often times 2-3" at 300. Like you, I was convinced that there was something wrong with my handloads. I spent hours at both the reloading bench and the range trying to figure things out.

Once I really learned and started to focus on the fundamentals of marksmanship, groups at distance fell right into place. At this point, they are the same size MOA, if not smaller at 300 and 600 for me. Same rifle, same hand loads, same barrel, same everything.
 
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I’m using a Burris XTR2 scope. I’ve not had good luck with any Burris (got a killer deal on this one which is why I’m using it). Everything is tight. Maybe I need to focus on the fundamentals more. My best friend is a police sniper, so I might have him shot if and see if it’s all over the place for him too. If so maybe I’ll call Burris.
 
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How is your shooting at longer ranges with other rifles. I was wondering if the rifle, handloads and scope all check out, you might be psyching your self out.

One other thought, shoot one round groups at 100 yards. You might be getting a bit of keyholing that is not detectable in large groups at 100 yards. I would suspect that would show up (keyholing) at 200 yards, but one never knows. Also, if nothing else is found, check the muzzle crown.
 
How is your shooting at longer ranges with other rifles. I was wondering if the rifle, handloads and scope all check out, you might be psyching your self out.

One other thought, shoot one round groups at 100 yards. You might be getting a bit of keyholing that is not detectable in large groups at 100 yards. I would suspect that would show up (keyholing) at 200 yards, but one never knows. Also, if nothing else is found, check the muzzle crown.
 
Here’s my RPR in 300 PRC the day before at 200
 

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There aren't that many things that could cause a "one hole" load at 100 yards to blow up to a 2 MOA load at 200 yards.

1) As @matt33 mentions, parallax would be the first thing I'd look at. While 100 to 200 yards isn't a large yardage difference, it could be enough in parallax adjustment that if either you're off in dialing it in or the scope is screwed up in that regard, that it could be a sizable portion of what you're seeing. I'm still skeptical that parallax could be so far off that it would be entirely responsible, but I'd start there.

To Test:
First, make sure you've got your parallax set correctly. Move your head side to side and up and down. The reticle should not move in relation to the target as you move your head. Adjust it until it doesn't.

Second, change the parallax relatively significantly and see if the scope's behavior changes (it should). If it doesn't, you may have a parallax issue with the scope.

Third, put another scope on it and test.

2) It could be you. Granted, if you're getting a one-hole group at 100 yards, you should be able to do well at 200. However, if your one-hole groups are from 3 shots, try 10 or 20 at each range and see what happens. Note that when I shoot for groups at 100 (or 200, or 300 - any range where I can see the bullet holes through the scope), I use orange dot stickers ($6.99 for 1000 1" dots at Amazon) and always dial in like 1/2 a mil to one side or another. The reason for this is that you always want a clean point of aim. Otherwise you end up sort of chasing the group, which opens everything up.

To Test:
First, are you zooming in with your scope when you go to 200? Try zooming out. It seems counter intuitive, but I find that more I zoom out (within reason and only out so far), the tighter my groups get. This is because when you're zoomed in more, you tend to chase the wobble. Not that this would account for everything you're seeing, but it could contribute.

Second, find someone who really knows precision shooting to check out everything. No offense to your law enforcement friend, but some of the law enforcement folks I've met that have had sniper training are not what I'd call experts in precision shooting. Know that most sniper engagements are less than 200 yards - training for that vs. hitting a 1 MOA target at a mile are two completely different regimens and skillsets. Maybe your friend is good, but ideally you want someone who has had a lot of experience with precision shooting across a number of different rifles.

With all that said, it's entirely possible that something with the bullet-load-barrel combo could cause a load that works at 100 to fall apart at longer ranges. This was proven to me in the first long range training I ever took - and Jeff Siewert devotes some pages to the subject in his book. However, it's highly unlikely that with today's quality components in a modern rifle you'd be creating a condition that would cause this - AND - while I've seen groups fall apart at like 500-600 yards, getting such a massive degradation while going from 100 to 200 feels like it has to be something else.

Lastly, while I doubt this is causing your issue, Starline brass works fine in an AR. For a precision bolt rifle, get some Lapua...
 
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There aren't that many things that could cause a "one hole" load at 100 yards to blow up to a 2 MOA load at 200 yards.

1) As @matt33 mentions, parallax would be the first thing I'd look at. While 100 to 200 yards isn't a large yardage difference, it could be enough in parallax adjustment that if either you're off in dialing it in or the scope is screwed up in that regard, that it could be a sizable portion of what you're seeing. I'm still skeptical that parallax could be so far off that it would be entirely responsible, but I'd start there.

To Test:
First, make sure you've got your parallax set correctly. Move your head side to side and up and down. The reticle should not move in relation to the target as you move your head. Adjust it until it doesn't.

Second, change the parallax relatively significantly and see if the scope's behavior changes (it should). If it doesn't, you may have a parallax issue with the scope.

Third, put another scope on it and test.

2) It could be you. Granted, if you're getting a one-hole group at 100 yards, you should be able to do well at 200. However, if your one-hole groups are from 3 shots, try 10 or 20 at each range and see what happens. Note that when I shoot for groups at 100 (or 200, or 300 - any range where I can see the bullet holes through the scope), I use orange dot stickers ($6.99 for 1000 1" dots at Amazon) and always dial in like 1/2 a mil to one side or another. The reason for this is that you always want a clean point of aim. Otherwise you end up sort of chasing the group, which opens everything up.

To Test:
First, are you zooming in with your scope when you go to 200? Try zooming out. It seems counter intuitive, but I find that more I zoom out (within reason and only out so far), the tighter my groups get. This is because when you're zoomed in more, you tend to chase the wobble. Not that this would account for everything you're seeing, but it could contribute.

Second, find someone who really knows precision shooting to check out everything. No offense to your law enforcement friend, but some of the law enforcement folks I've met that have had sniper training are not what I'd call experts in precision shooting. Know that most sniper engagements are less than 200 yards - training for that vs. hitting a 1 MOA target at a mile are two completely different regimens and skillsets. Maybe your friend is good, but ideally you want someone who has had a lot of experience with precision shooting across a number of different rifles.

With all that said, it's entirely possible that something with the bullet-load-barrel combo could cause a load that works at 100 to fall apart at longer ranges. This was proven to me in the first long range training I ever took - and Jeff Siewert devotes some pages to the subject in his book. However, it's highly unlikely that with today's quality components in a modern rifle you'd be creating a condition that would cause this - AND - while I've seen groups fall apart at like 500-600 yards, getting such a massive degradation while going from 100 to 200 feels like it has to be something else.

Lastly, while I doubt this is causing your issue, Starline brass works fine in an AR. For a precision bolt rifle, get some Lapua...
Thanks. I’ll check the parallax and see if that’s off. As I said, and in my last post you can see that I was shooting pretty decently (for me) at 200yds with my RPR in300 PRC with Peterson brass. I noticed I was getting ES’s in the high 70’s too. I wonder if this 5x fired brass is toast. Though I doubt it because I anneal after each firing and there’s no signs of head separation etc. parallax is definitely a consideration. So is this darn Burris scope, I really don’t trust that brand. But it’s one of their higher end models and I figured it’d be ok. Maybe I was wrong. Though if it was I’d think the issue would show up at 100 yds too. I’ll report back next weekend with what I find.