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Short Barrel Ranch Rifle Cartridge Choice

W

Wiley2019

Private
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2022
64
42
Texas
#1
I’m looking to rebarrel my old Tikka T3 243 into something to use as my ranch rifle/truck gun to keep in my rig daily. I’d like it to be as short as reasonably possible, and I’d like to use factory ammo just for the cost and convenience in a gun that will be abused and fired a lot. I’ve got a peak44 stock on the way and a Leupold VX3 that’s been waiting to be put on something. The cartridges I’m looking at as of now are 6CM, 25CM, 6.5CM and of course good old 308. Open to other chambering suggestions as well. Duties will include dispatching coyotes, feral hogs, and whitetail if the opportunity presents itself during season. Likely maximum range on live targets will be 400 yards just given the brush and topography of my place. I currently use a 22CM at 22” but I’d like it to be a few inches shorter for getting it out the truck window easily and quickly. I’d build another 22CM shorter but that’s boring. Rifle will be suppressed full time.

Yes I realize I’m giving up performance with factory ammo and a short barrel but this tool isn’t going to be about maximizing performance, it’s about easy handling and being capable enough to be useful. I know there’s plenty of posts about short barrels but I’m looking for experience specifically with factory ammunition. So who’s running factory ammo in a 16-20” rifle, what cartridge and muzzle velocities are you getting? Have you seen good kills on small to medium size game with your setup?
 
#5
The minimum barrel length to get 100% powder burn out of a 6.5CM is 21", and the smaller Creedmoor calibers like .25cal, 6mm and 22 cal will need longer barrels. If you want to go shorter than 21", the 308Win will be best if you want maximum energy on target and are okay with a bit of recoil. If you want low recoil and okay with less energy on target, then .223.

100% Powder burn in my opinion is the most under discussed topic in rifle shooting at the moment. If you are not burning 100% of the powder, you are just creating additional recoil for absolutely no benefit. At the same time you have lower accuracy potential and fouling up suppressors more than need be.

Companies are constantly following what the market wants, not needs. Hence the reason you see so many sub 24" magnum rifles out there.
 
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#8
DRAKENBURG said:
The minimum barrel length to get 100% powder burn out of a 6.5CM is 21", and the smaller Creedmoor calibers like .25cal, 6mm and 22 cal will need longer barrels. If you want to go shorter than 21", the 308Win will be best if you want maximum energy on target and are okay with a bit of recoil. If you want low recoil and okay with less energy on target, then .223.

100% Powder burn in my opinion is the most under discussed topic in rifle shooting at the moment. If you are not burning 100% of the powder, you are just creating additional recoil for absolutely no benefit. At the same time you have lower accuracy potential and fouling up suppressors more than need be.

Companies are constantly following what the market wants, not needs. Hence the reason you see so many sub 24" magnum rifles out there.
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I agree, more blast and recoil is true as well as worse es/sd. Plenty of big name factory and custom guns are putting in work while not burning 100% in the barrel. The owners of said rifles could care less 2 or 5% escaped.

You DO gain velocity running a 6creed vs a 6BR at 16". At 400yd the es/sd won't be a problem. Unless it is subsonic they all have plenty of blast.
 
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#11
Evlshnngns said:
I agree, more blast and recoil is true as well as worse es/sd. Plenty of big name factory and custom guns are putting in work while not burning 100% in the barrel. The owners of said rifles could care less 2 or 5% escaped.

You DO gain velocity running a 6creed vs a 6BR at 16". At 400yd the es/sd won't be a problem. Unless it is subsonic they all have plenty of blast.
Click to expand...
Agreed fully, as I said in the original post I’m well aware that I’m giving up performance here. If I was trying to make the absolute best precision rifle, we wouldn’t be talking about short barrels. I’m just trying to knock down a hog or coyote as effectively as I can. In that particular situation, getting to the rifle out and on target quickly without having to navigate a long barrel and suppressor around obstacles in the vehicle, is more critical to success than getting ideal ES and sub 1/2moa groups. Some energy and precision lost is better than not getting the shot off at all, within reason of course. It’s not a rifle that’ll be used for matches or precious drawn tags. I just want the cartridge chosen to be as effective as possible, while fitting a size class that makes it as useful as possible in a very particular situation.
 
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#15
I have an ancient 7x57 Mauser 20” barrel with iron sights. It does creditable work as a truck gun. Right at 7 pounds. 7-08 ought to perform similarly.

That said, my previous truck gun was a K-98 rebarreled in .308. Nothing wrong with an 18” 308 for deer, hogs, and coyotes while out riding fence lines.
 
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#16
This is my 20” 6.5 creed in the stock. I’ll pretty sure it’s a stocky’s. 7.5 lbs all up, and the scope and silencerco adapter weigh 1.5 lbs, so 6 lbs-ish for the rifle with Sportsmatch 30mm rings.

The 17-1/2” 308 has a Athlon 2-12, so the weight savings with the bigger bore and shorter barrel are offset by the additional scope weight.

With the can on (AB Warthog), it’s not unwieldy, and with the can off, the brake tames recoil.

IMG_9973.jpeg

IMG_9974.jpeg
 
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#18
david walter said:
This is my 20” 6.5 creed in the stock. I’ll pretty it’s a stocky’s. 7.5 lbs all up, and the scope and silencerco adapter weigh 1.5 lbs, so 6 lbs-ish for the rifle with Sportsmatch 30mm rings.

The 17-1/2” 308 has a Athlon 2-12, so the weight savings with the bigger bore and shorter barrel are offset by the additional scope weight.

With the can on (AB Warthog), it’s not unwieldy, and with the can off, the brake tames recoil.

View attachment 8717412
View attachment 8717416
Click to expand...
Thanks for checking on that, it’s right around where I’m hoping to weigh in.
 
#20
Is the 243 toast or is it just time for a change ? A 243 shooting something in the 70-85gr range really sounds pretty ideal for what you're doing.

For years a 22-250 shooting 55gr core-lokts was my daily truck/tractor/four wheeler rifle. Im on the 6mm kick now though ever since my foray into the 243AI. Toasted that one shooting 55's at 4k plus. There's a soon to be dasher barrel in my lathe right now. It'll be finished just shy of 22"
The plan for it is 70-95gr bullets at the moment.

A short 308 is pretty good all the way around. I had a 16" that I traded. Wish I had it back. My current 308 bolt gun is a 20"
With a can inside a truck it's a little unwieldy. A 7-08 finished at 18" shooting 120's would probably fit the bill nicely.

All that said given the choices you listed I'd go 6 creed. Decent factory offerings. I'd probably shoot the eld-vt.
 
#21
Old Man with Gun said:
Going short, factory ammo and limited to 400yds, it is hard to beat a 308.
Click to expand...

This right here.

Have round the gantlet of shorties and the 308w gives best velocity and weight ratio. 155 hybrids are ideal to pick-up some speed, but still get best powder burn.

If you're not reloading, T308T.
 
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#22
In your shoes I'd be shooting a 6cm. 80gr eld VT, 90gr tgk, 90 nosler ballistic tips. The 308 makes sense too, but there will be 2x as much recoil. I handload an 18in 6cm, 112 Barnes or 109 eldm at 2950 with rl26. I know eldm 108 factory was right around 2780 in that barrel. That bullet kills very well too.
 
#25
I havent bought factory ammo in atleast 15 years, so i have no idea what manufactures offer in each, but my 16" 6CM and 14.5 308 with pinned keymo brake are great from the truck and box blinds.

130gr TTSX are solid options if you go the 308 route.

Quickload shows that 12-14 of the powders i have on hand are burning 98% on average in the 16 inch barrel. No, its not perfect, but its good enough.

As you mentioned, you understand the lack of efficiency and are willing to accept the tradeoffs.

(Coming from a guy that also runs a 16" 300 SAUM)
 
#26
KYAggie said:
I would go 18-20” 6.5 with a 120-130 grain bullet; hard to beat on those animals you listed. I have two 20” 6.5’s, one on a Solus action and the other a AR10. Both perform very well. I run Barnes 127 LRX’s and 129 ABLR’s through them.
Click to expand...

This is the trick with shorter barrels.

I have an 18" 6.5 CM barrel, and 123 Scenars go ~2850 fps (reloaded). Factory Hornady 140's are about 2500 fps.
 
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#27
AMG04 said:
I havent bought factory ammo in atleast 15 years, so i have no idea what manufactures offer in each, but my 16" 6CM and 14.5 308 with pinned keymo brake are great from the truck and box blinds.

130gr TTSX are solid options if you go the 308 route.

Quickload shows that 12-14 of the powders i have on hand are burning 98% on average in the 16 inch barrel. No, its not perfect, but its good enough.

As you mentioned, you understand the lack of efficiency and are willing to accept the tradeoffs.

(Coming from a guy that also runs a 16" 300 SAUM)
Click to expand...
I run a 19” 300wsm so trust me I know sometimes the fade off is worth the extra BOOM
 
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#28
There is some discussion about recoil. Why?
I can't imagine the recoil of anything mentioned being an issue for occasional shooting like the OP described.

Can you spot for yourself with some cartridges but not others? I wouldn't expect any light rifle to do well at that
 
#30
To me, recoil isn't much of a factor since a big magnum is out of the question. I also don't consider modern Creedmoor-class cartridges in <22" barrels to be hearing safe, even with a suppressor. So additional hearing protection is mandatory (for me)... and since I'm doing that, I might as well save myself the 4-6 inches and leave it off. YMMV.

Having farted around with "ranch rifles" and truck guns for a while now myself, I will trade a little portability for MPBR and faster follow-up shots - because you'll likely not have time for application of a rangefinder... So the braced 10.5" ARs and 16.5" bolt guns aren't for me either. Again, YMMV.

If someone told me that I had to build another ranch rifle tomorrow, I'd end up with an 18" 22/6 ARC on an AR. You could go a step further and put a folding stock adapter on it too if you wanted. That is still short enough to fit perpendicular next to you in the cab of a truck or SxS, but long enough to get some velocity with the right bullet.
 
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#31
diggler1833 said:
To me, recoil isn't much of a factor since a big magnum is out of the question. I also don't consider modern Creedmoor-class cartridges in <22" barrels to be hearing safe, even with a suppressor. So additional hearing protection is mandatory (for me)... and since I'm doing that, I might as well save myself the 4-6 inches and leave it off. YMMV.

Having farted around with "ranch rifles" and truck guns for a while now myself, I will trade a little portability for MPBR and faster follow-up shots - because you'll likely not have time for application of a rangefinder... So the braced 10.5" ARs and 16.5" bolt guns aren't for me either. Again, YMMV.

If someone told me that I had to build another ranch rifle tomorrow, I'd end up with an 18" 22/6 ARC on an AR. You could go a step further and put a folding stock adapter on it too if you wanted. That is still short enough to fit perpendicular next to you in the cab of a truck or SxS, but long enough to get some velocity with the right bullet.
Click to expand...
I have to say, I just chambered a 22arc for a friend of mine on a ruger american, and I was pretty impressed. Finished it at 18"

Not sure what factory fodder would do but he's loading 80's running 2900. About to do another one for my brother on a tikka. I think he's going to use the full blank. May cut it down to 24" but he doesn't want to go under that. It ought to be pretty fast.
 
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#32
Wiley2019 said:
I’m looking to rebarrel my old Tikka T3 243 into something to use as my ranch rifle/truck gun to keep in my rig daily. I’d like it to be as short as reasonably possible, and I’d like to use factory ammo just for the cost and convenience in a gun that will be abused and fired a lot. I’ve got a peak44 stock on the way and a Leupold VX3 that’s been waiting to be put on something. The cartridges I’m looking at as of now are 6CM, 25CM, 6.5CM and of course good old 308. Open to other chambering suggestions as well. Duties will include dispatching coyotes, feral hogs, and whitetail if the opportunity presents itself during season. Likely maximum range on live targets will be 400 yards just given the brush and topography of my place. I currently use a 22CM at 22” but I’d like it to be a few inches shorter for getting it out the truck window easily and quickly. I’d build another 22CM shorter but that’s boring. Rifle will be suppressed full time.

Yes I realize I’m giving up performance with factory ammo and a short barrel but this tool isn’t going to be about maximizing performance, it’s about easy handling and being capable enough to be useful. I know there’s plenty of posts about short barrels but I’m looking for experience specifically with factory ammunition. So who’s running factory ammo in a 16-20” rifle, what cartridge and muzzle velocities are you getting? Have you seen good kills on small to medium size game with your setup?
Click to expand...
From what you list, .308 would be my choice.
 
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#33
Wiley2019 said:
I’m looking to rebarrel my old Tikka T3 243 into something to use as my ranch rifle/truck gun to keep in my rig daily. I’d like it to be as short as reasonably possible, and I’d like to use factory ammo just for the cost and convenience in a gun that will be abused and fired a lot. I’ve got a peak44 stock on the way and a Leupold VX3 that’s been waiting to be put on something. The cartridges I’m looking at as of now are 6CM, 25CM, 6.5CM and of course good old 308. Open to other chambering suggestions as well. Duties will include dispatching coyotes, feral hogs, and whitetail if the opportunity presents itself during season. Likely maximum range on live targets will be 400 yards just given the brush and topography of my place. I currently use a 22CM at 22” but I’d like it to be a few inches shorter for getting it out the truck window easily and quickly. I’d build another 22CM shorter but that’s boring. Rifle will be suppressed full time.

Yes I realize I’m giving up performance with factory ammo and a short barrel but this tool isn’t going to be about maximizing performance, it’s about easy handling and being capable enough to be useful. I know there’s plenty of posts about short barrels but I’m looking for experience specifically with factory ammunition. So who’s running factory ammo in a 16-20” rifle, what cartridge and muzzle velocities are you getting? Have you seen good kills on small to medium size game with your setup?
Click to expand...
250 savage is your answer.
 
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#34
I have a 16.5” 6.5 creed that runs a 123 Scenar at 2840 with h4350.
Loaded below book max.

16” .308 that slings fgmm 175s at 2600 (fast barrel). Barrel is a truck axle, so while fun, not really handy in a rig or for a grab n go rifle.

Gonna see about some 130 TMK or Barnes in another 16.5” .308 I have for some more speed for a handy truck rifle and critter getter.

I like .308 a lot for a short bolt gun.
But the short 6.5 creed is darn impressive
 
#35
Have you actually shot a deer sized animal with a 125 NBT out of a 308? Your response leads me to think you have not, but know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy, who’s uncle, on his mother‘s side, once shot something with a 125 ballistic tip, and it blew up, or that’s the excuse he gave when he didn’t recover the animal.

I have. And got similar results to what Grok says.

4O6shootist said:
And explosive!
Click to expand...
IMG_0001.png
 
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#36
david walter said:
Have you actually shot a deer sized animal with a 125 NBT out of a 308? Your response leads me to think you have not, but know a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy, who’s uncle, on his mother‘s side, once shot something with a 125 ballistic tip, and it blew up, or that’s the excuse he gave when he didn’t recover the animal.

I have. And got similar results to what Grok says.


View attachment 8718261
Click to expand...
I grew up shooting everything with lighter for cal nosler ballistic tips, as my uncle was a huge fan of fast and light as he did our reloading. So yes, 25-06 270win 30-06. I saw dramatic damage on game with these bullets. Very short necks on the wound channels and then heavy fragmenting. Granted we were pushing these bullets faster than a short barrel 308 would. These were like poor man weatherby loads. We did our best to stay off the shoulders as meat loss was pretty heavy, but just in the crease resulted in many bang flops.
 
#39
I’ve NEVER been a fan of the .308. However, for your purposes, a short barrel and feral hogs on the menu, it’s very hard to beat.

Therefore, of the rounds you mentioned, I would strongly suggest the .308.

If long range wasn’t an issue, I’d think the old 35 Remington would be a great choice, but ammo is hard to find, and even finding a rifle chambered for that round is going to be difficult. The new straight cased .35’s from Winchester are a bit too anemic for my tastes so, I am not throwing those out for consideration.
 
#42
Why is rifle overall length never discussed?
A Rem788(or Steyr SSG69) has an app 2" longer barrel than a T3 for the same ROL.
In Europe the Blaser R8 gives us 3"+ extra barrel length vs a T3 for the same ROL. A R8 in 375H&H with 23" barrel has app the same ROL as a T3 with 20" barrel..

With the "new" craze for short barrels I have never understood why a high quality "788" with rear locking lugs is not made in the US. An old Steyr mod M in 30-06 (or in 9.3x62) is actually shorter than a Rem 7.
 
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#43
My favourite rifle these days is my 18" 6.5 creed. Chassis has a folding stock so nice and compact I mostly shoot handloads in it but my 140gr ELDM load is pretty much the same as the factory 140gr ELDM ammo I've run in it, goes about 2600fps. For your application with probably less time to range (I have an Impact 4000 on mine), I'd try the 100gr ELVT, should be nice and flat.
 
#45
Unless the 243 barrel is shot out or otherwise damaged/unusable, I'd just shorten that to 16" and roll with it. My dad bought a short Rossi 243 single shot for all of his grand kids to deer hunt with, and it's killed everything it's been pointed at with regular ol' factory loaded 100 grain Corelokts that you can buy everywhere.

If you are set on rebarreling it, I'd go 6.5 Creedmoor. I had a factory Tikka barrel shortened to 18" on my 6.5 Creed for a while. I could still make hits to 1000 yards on steel with ease shooting Hornady 140 gr ELD-Ms. I'd probably give a lighter bullet a try for your intended use like the 120 gr ELD Match or 123 gr Scenar.
 
#49
TorF said:
Why is rifle overall length never discussed?
A Rem788(or Steyr SSG69) has an app 2" longer barrel than a T3 for the same ROL.
In Europe the Blaser R8 gives us 3"+ extra barrel length vs a T3 for the same ROL. A R8 in 375H&H with 23" barrel has app the same ROL as a T3 with 20" barrel..

With the "new" craze for short barrels I have never understood why a high quality "788" with rear locking lugs is not made in the US. An old Steyr mod M in 30-06 (or in 9.3x62) is actually shorter than a Rem 7.
Click to expand...
^^^This. Total overall length matters a great deal for opportunity pest control.
 
#50
I have a bunch of 16" bolt guns that all get used riding around in the truck and for hunting. The handiness to me is worth the speed loss, especially if you're riding around in the truck and likely shooting things within a couple hundred yards.

Any of these are good enough options:
308
7mm-08
6.5 creed
6 creed
243

All the animals I've popped with the above rounds didn't know the projectile was moving a couple hundred fps slower. Heck, I've probably killed more pigs with a 10" 300 blackout with an eotech than anything else and that's moving at a slightly faster speed than my son's slingshot.
 
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