People ask me why I don't like Sig.......

ToddM

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I should just make a handout of this. :) This is why I don't like Sig.....among tons of other things there are so many lemons in their barrel lotteries.

Let's start with my Gen 2 MPX 16" with a red dot. These are typical groups 6-8" out of it at 50yds, 115gr, 147gr, match ammo etc. doesn't matter. It runs fairly reliable as far as MPX's go but the accuracy is abysmal. $500 combat handguns print better groups than this in a rest with match ammo at 50yds. Shot off an accutac bipod and rear bag. Tried all the tricks, removing the muzzle device, making sure the barrel was torqued properly, adjustable gas block, even tried a different bolt since I had one replaced when Sig changed firing pins. Doesn't matter if it's off a bipod or bags. It's a shotgun. I would expect something like this, especially with better match ammo to easily hold 3-4" at 50yds. I've seen JP-5's do close to that at 100yds with match ammo. Some of these almost look like the bullets are starting to tumble.

Screen Shot 2025-07-04 at 1.43.57 PM.png


Then let's move onto my MCX Legacy 16".......these are two sets of groups at 50yds. Both are 3 separate groups of 5 rounds each (the far left round on the right target is actually part of the left target's groups). The one on the left with typical 55gr AE ammo (no one expects much out of that) the group on the right is Barnes 69gr. No sight adjustments mind you, shot off an accutac bipod and rear bag. Actually worse than the groups shot out of the MPX.....that alone is impressive! This barrel was actually returned to Sig a couple years ago and I was told it tested to their specs. I've done all the things, barrel nut torque, removed the flash hider in case it was torqued on too hard, all the things. It's a shotgun even with match ammo. I can say without a doubt this is the worst shooting barrel accuracy wise I've ever had. No tumbling here, the bullet holes you can find on a target at 100 are still clean holes.

Screen Shot 2025-07-04 at 1.44.31 PM.png


Now you might just say "Oh that guy just bitter and doesn't know how to shoot. Well here's a 20rd group (4 separate groups of 5 shots) with the same 69gr Barnes ammo shot out of a virtus barrel installed on the exact same optic (1-6x)/upper/lower (different tapered bolt of course for the virtus) today as well, shot off the same bipod and rear bag. Except this group is at 100 yds. Still not as impressive as a couple of my JP barreled AR's with match ammo (especially considering Sig charges $900 for a barrel) but for a 1:7 Sig barrel, of a bipod and rear bag, and 4 separate groups, It's more than acceptable.. The downside is the weight of the Virtus barrel destroys the gun's balance and you lose the best part of the MCX (light weight and balance) in the process.

Screen Shot 2025-07-04 at 1.47.41 PM.png

I could go on, we could get into the issues I had to solve with my 320 X-five to get it to run, but those were fairly easily solvable.
 
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Pics fixed hopefully. Yeah I could rant about Sig for hours, even the government is learning their stuff sucks. Genius marking hype though, man they could sell ice to eskimos in winter.

I bought my MPX, MCX, and a P320 X-five around the same time, and prior to that I'd had good luck with Sig, that said they were P226's and mostly German ones at that. Those 3 guns have caused me more headache than all my other guns combined in at least 10 years, and that's saying something after having to deal with Beretta CS.
 
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Was RO'ing a match a couple years ago. Dude comes up with an MCX if I remember correctly. I don't know anything about them and he notices me checking it out. Proceeds to walk me through all the special features and tell me how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and how he "knows a guy" that got him a deal so it only cost him about as much as a nice JP rifle.
Then I get to watch it shit the bed for three minutes straight and struggle to hit a 10" plate at 200 yards. Dude wasn't so talkative after that.
 
The problem is SIG USA, and if SIG/Sauer is smart they'll spin it off/sell it off and require the successor to be named as not a SIG company/product. All that fat dollarage from gov contracts must have been needed at SIG/Sauer's end of things, somehow. As a historic company they will regret that dollarage influx because of the reputation damage it's done.
 
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I should just make a handout of this. :) This is why I don't like Sig.....among tons of other things there are so many lemons in their barrel lotteries.

Let's start with my Gen 2 MPX 16" with a red dot. These are typical groups 6-8" out of it at 50yds, 115gr, 147gr, match ammo etc. doesn't matter. It runs fairly reliable as far as MPX's go but the accuracy is abysmal. $500 combat handguns print better groups than this in a rest with match ammo at 50yds. Shot off an accutac bipod and rear bag. Tried all the tricks, removing the muzzle device, making sure the barrel was torqued properly, adjustable gas block, even tried a different bolt since I had one replaced when Sig changed firing pins. Doesn't matter if it's off a bipod or bags. It's a shotgun. I would expect something like this, especially with better match ammo to easily hold 3-4" at 50yds. I've seen JP-5's do close to that at 100yds with match ammo. Some of these almost look like the bullets are starting to tumble.

View attachment 8721715

I purchased a Sig MPX-K pretty recently. Mine printed like that off rest and rear bag at 25. Different ammo, 115, 124, 147. It was an absolute joke for what I paid for it. Different muzzle devices and can. It did not matter. I was going to purchase the ILWT barrel but I spoke with the owner who was very helpful. He suggested having the bbl recut and threaded. I took it to local gunsmith who cut it just past that stupid taper. The gun now shoots acceptably. May be worth a try.

This will be my last Sig product as well.
 
That's interesting, and we've seen other reports over the years where removing a muzzle device on Sig's can significantly increase accuracy, the idea being the overtorqued device causes constriction at the end of the barrel, but I wonder if for some barrels just removing it is not enough and the barrel was permanently damaged and setting it back and recrowning it is the only fix for those.
 
Yeah I have a couple German X-five's P226s that are amazing, and Sig certainly seems to push new designs out that are appealing, it's the execution of them that seems lacking. Pretty much every new design they've released for almost 10 years that was not based on the P226 has had significant issues after release that should have been caught in testing. There's always stuff that can show up after tens of thousands are in the wild being used over time, but designs like the MPX were on Gen 3 before it was even 3 years old, MCX had issues out of the gate. 320 had issues, 365 had issues, P210 had issues, the list goes on. The other problem is their product turnover rate is so high that (which makes them tons of $) that parts/accessories wise you quickly can be out of luck. The MPX/MCX are not that old by gun standards, but they both already have 3+ generations of which many parts are not compatible between them, so if you have an older generation model, aftermarket support is quickly abandoned. It's genius marking, as long as sales hold out and they don't destroy their reputation like Cohen did with Kimber, who has never recovered. With the LEO/Mil contracts and much longer established reputation before he took over Sig has been able to resist their reputation being damaged too much, but you can see it taking it's toll. More and more people are down on Sig these days.

I suspect their new 2011 will have issues as well.
 
The problem is SIG USA, and if SIG/Sauer is smart they'll spin it off/sell it off and require the successor to be named as not a SIG company/product. All that fat dollarage from gov contracts must have been needed at SIG/Sauer's end of things, somehow. As a historic company they will regret that dollarage influx because of the reputation damage it's done.
Yeah, pretty much change the name like sti did. Spotty quality and piss poor CS at STI, now we're staccato and make "super great 2011s."
 
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I have the 226, 227, and 229. Never had a problem with any of them. Was issued the 320 at work and had more problems in 2 days of shooting than I had in over 10 years of ownership. Not to mention I don't trust it. They just don't make'm like they used to.
 
Yeah, pretty much change the name like sti did. Spotty quality and piss poor CS at STI, now we're staccato and make "super great 2011s."
I appreciate the cynicism and reality-based example, but SIG/Sauer is not STI. The wisdom of history in one company (SIG/Sauer) may have been silenced by unky's bucks temporarily but you do not get to the level SIG/Sauer was on, globally, by end of 20th Century by selling half-arsed stuff. If you spin off/sell a company it is very possible to make restrictions on name use and to make a later PR campaign to distinguish the fakers, if the fakers arise.

Flip side worst case is, of course, your scenario.
 
I used to be the biggest Sig fanatic. I discovered their pistols more than 25 years ago, my older P226's and 228's were amazing. My earliest one even came with a test target signed by Hans Gruber or somebody. The level of pride that was taken to make arguably the finest combat handgun in the world at that time was obvious.

Ron Cohen destroyed that once great company. They even cheapened the old classic P-Series pistols. Take a look at the newer external extractor versus an earlier external extractor. It is much larger now, it goes into the slide serrations. I'm virtually positive they changed the design because they are now using cheap third world MIM extractor's, they needed additional mass to get the same strength from the pot metal they now use. They are an absolute joke of a company, it makes me sad.
 
If anyone remembers the public tar & feather for Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken the junk bond boys of the 80s, well that's what good old Ronnie has to look forward to, once people get enough distance to see this was all SIG USA and not SIG/Sauer the historical company.

About the MPX -- I thought of getting one, or a CZ Scorpion, to run in PCC class in USPSA. But then started hearing about MPX issues and decided to build my own PCC. Which I did for less $$ than either an MPX or Scorpion. And it has run w/o hitches unlike the MPXs I hear about or witness in matches.
 
Was RO'ing a match a couple years ago. Dude comes up with an MCX if I remember correctly. I don't know anything about them and he notices me checking it out. Proceeds to walk me through all the special features and tell me how it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and how he "knows a guy" that got him a deal so it only cost him about as much as a nice JP rifle.
Then I get to watch it shit the bed for three minutes straight and struggle to hit a 10" plate at 200 yards. Dude wasn't so talkative after that.
Were you able to keep a straight face? I would have been laughing my ass off. I bet This was that dude after the match:

giphy.gif
 
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I guess I'm in the minority here, classics Sigs are.....well classic. I have a bunch of those. They just plain work and are lasers. I have two 320s from retiring from my small dept. of around 100.

We had the 320 from 2016, started with a plain jane carry and they still have them with no plans to drop it. We had no problems with 320 whatsoever. Our last and current issue is a 320 RXP carry. The ERT guys beat those things up so bad sometimes the optic shattered but the pistols never fired on their own.


We had 516 SBRs with a happy switch (ERT) and cans. Those things ran like a top and were pretty accurate for a SBR. No parts breakage. One of the guys purchased the MCX in .308 a couple of years ago when I sent my firearms instructors to the mother ship for training (I couldn't go) and he was able to purchase it at a significant discount but it was still expensive. Last I knew he was happy with it. I would have got one too had I been able to go but work got in the way for me.

I have an Xten comp that I'm really really liking but with all of the videos of the pistols firing in the holster, especially the one that came out a couple of days ago I don't trust it to carry it anymore. Damn shame too because it's a sweet shooter with full house 10mm loads. Very controllable...

My complaint has been how they drop and or change products with no notice. And the way they are handling the 320 debacle has boxed them into a corner. I would be very happy of Cohen left....
 
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