Quantico Shooting Club - Worth the Drive?
- Thread starter _Thor_
- Start date
ETA - Beat by Chrome, but his post didn't display until I replied, should have cleared my cache...
Apparently it's a wolf spider momma. They were by the pits used for moving electronic targets. Difficult to tell from the picture, but there are about 50 revetments for electronic targets. Small ones are about 3' square and 30" deep and the large ones are about 40'x 5'x5'. If the range was flat this would be easy but there are 8 burms that cross the range and create slopes that zero-turns don't appreciate and the revetments add more challenges. Anyways, I'm out there in a bit and will finish up today.
I'll be looking over the matchbook this evening and will asking questions to the group for improvements with the understanding the book isn't the match or how it's run, but it's a starting point for my knowledge improvements.
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Rob01, I have not been there in a while (Feb or March cant remember) and you are correct, some of my other friends said the last few matches they have had to get the pass as well as have a RealID. I was wrong in saying that is all you need was the realid now.
Also Good Shooting Saturday.
Thanks man. Saturday was first match since April so was worried about the sore back and rusty skills with no practice but made it work even with the lightweight 18” barrel lol
Update - I spoke with three members from Teams this morning, all were in agreement the last match had challenges. We spoke at length, which confirmed shooter concerns previously reported. Interestingly, they used the same term I think DBD mentioned in his post about gimmicks. While PRS Rimfire may have gimmicks, there should be none in centerfire.
The range trash we took off Ironman this weekend that was buried in the growth:
A slithering critter I ran into while clearing an area. Not sure what it is, but I unassed quickly.
- I am leaning heavily towards offering any shooter from the August match a free match in future; it's only right
- I surveyed the props and threw several away - Why wooden props were used when we have several steel props is unknown, but fixable for future
- I ordered some tank trap steel knuckles from Big Dog Steel so we can construct a firm tank trap until we have a steel one fabricated
- I'm working to source tube steel locally to replace wooden props with steel equivalents - just have to find a welder
- I spoke with the WTBn Advanced Training (who have engineers) to see if they have the skill
- I'll see if I can beg Public Works if needed. We provide the steel to Advanced Trng and they then do the work order. Long way around the cul-de-sac, but it might work
- WTBn is transferring some shooting benches from R1 storage to Ironman; they are basically new and will be a decent stage prop for a modified prone
- I'm working with Teams to clear space beyond the target line and into the tree line. It will take heavy machinery, but at least they can schedule the work
- I've modified the Matchbook and am reviewing each stage
- Can the stage be successfully run on the assigned firing lane?
- Does the PAR time correspond to the stage design and give the shooter sufficient time to move between targets while offering sufficient time to engage targets
- I updated the DQ section to note shooters delaying the line, not being ready to shoot, disruptions, etc.
- Even though we have cleared the range, I think the lack of a backdrop will still be an issue as many shots cannot be spotted for splash, just trace
- I will ensure each stage has a different colored t-posts so acquisition is enhanced - Something like orange then red, orange then red, etc.
The range trash we took off Ironman this weekend that was buried in the growth:
A slithering critter I ran into while clearing an area. Not sure what it is, but I unassed quickly.
Use a color wheel to choose; complementary, triadic or tetradic color separation depending how many you need next to each other. Red and orange will blend when next to each other.
An example if you start with red:
I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. All Stage 1 T-posts will be (for example) Blue, all Stage 2 posts will be Orange, all Stage 3 posts Blue, etc., not that there would be alternating colors per stage. I think there's enough separation per lane to make this work.
cooperhead, maybe?Update - I spoke with three members from Teams this morning, all were in agreement the last match had challenges. We spoke at length, which confirmed shooter concerns previously reported. Interestingly, they used the same term I think DBD mentioned in his post about gimmicks. While PRS Rimfire may have gimmicks, there should be none in centerfire.
Al l for now, back to work on making improvements.
- I am leaning heavily towards offering any shooter from the August match a free match in future; it's only right
- I surveyed the props and threw several away - Why wooden props were used when we have several steel props is unknown, but fixable for future
- I ordered some tank trap steel knuckles from Big Dog Steel so we can construct a firm tank trap until we have a steel one fabricated
- I'm working to source tube steel locally to replace wooden props with steel equivalents - just have to find a welder
- I spoke with the WTBn Advanced Training (who have engineers) to see if they have the skill
- I'll see if I can beg Public Works if needed. We provide the steel to Advanced Trng and they then do the work order. Long way around the cul-de-sac, but it might work
- WTBn is transferring some shooting benches from R1 storage to Ironman; they are basically new and will be a decent stage prop for a modified prone
- I'm working with Teams to clear space beyond the target line and into the tree line. It will take heavy machinery, but at least they can schedule the work
- I've modified the Matchbook and am reviewing each stage
- Can the stage be successfully run on the assigned firing lane?
- Does the PAR time correspond to the stage design and give the shooter sufficient time to move between targets while offering sufficient time to engage targets
- I updated the DQ section to note shooters delaying the line, not being ready to shoot, disruptions, etc.
- Even though we have cleared the range, I think the lack of a backdrop will still be an issue as many shots cannot be spotted for splash, just trace
- I will ensure each stage has a different colored t-posts so acquisition is enhanced - Something like orange then red, orange then red, etc.
The range trash we took off Ironman this weekend that was buried in the growth:
A slithering critter I ran into while clearing an area. Not sure what it is, but I unassed quickly.
Target acquisition is never the problem. One of the unique things about that range is all the targets are within the shooting lane. Makes it super easy to ensure you are shooting at right targets. The actual issue was there were targets that could not be seen line of sight from shooting positions. I wouldn't waste to much time or money painting tposts. You won't see em anyway.
Updates: I appreciate the hints, tips and advice all have contributed in the thread, I'm working them to make improvements with each suggestion in mind. The real failure here was leadership and that means me. Tim left, Dan got super busy with life and our third MD was doing his best. I assumed skills sets would translate and clearly they did not. I'll oversee improvements and hopefully we can gain back the credibility we lost. Review and let me know what still may need an increased focus.
1. Any JULY match participant will receive a free match, good through at least the end of 2025. It's a small gesture but necessary.
2. I'm seriously considering limiting match participation to 40 people total; 4 squads of 10 people. With 9 stages, that allows us to stagger squads so there is an empty stage between them and the next squad. That allows squads to move freely to the next stage and hopefully builds a buffer for the slow squads so the match has an acceptable pace.
3. I spoke with Tim Friday and we have ideas for props and improvements. While we can't implement immediately, we have obtained other props to replace those that were not to standard and that we can use for next Saturday's match. New props will be constructed from tube steel and be robust enough that will probably still be in use when I reach my expiration date.
4. We bought a gently used Terrapin X and will be using it to confirm distance to targets. I reviewed the PLRFs the team was using and was not satisfied they were to the level needed to assure accuracy. I will take DBD's suggestion and park a big shinny truck next to every shooting position to validate ranges.
5. Visitor Control may have changed their policies again, requiring match participants to get a day pass to attend, or be a member of the club for a one-year DBIDS card, at least that's what the weekend crew told me. As I said before, that's not our agreement so I'll re-engage next week when the boss is available. Short-term work around is to make a special member card for match participants to allow yearly DBIDS.
6. I threw out a number of props and moved others so Teams could use / abuse them as needed. I made clear we will focus on quality and only use serviceable and stable props that will be staked.
We bought three differing sized cable spools - a 54", 42" and a 36". These replace the single 54" that was past its prime.
We bought tank trap knuckles and built a new tank trap. We have three knuckles and will build traps of differing sizes for use.
We bought swing set knuckles and built a slant prop for use.
We ditched the old and worn shooting benches and replaced them (thanks to WTBn) with new, unused versions for modified prone.
We're reviewing the current steel props to ensure they will be stable for competition use, and we will be repainting them this week.
What have I missed???
@TheOE800 @Baron23 @Jingoist @Rob01 @chrome @DeathBeforeDismount @smoothy8500 @Lastsaint21 @Tritiumdials @olive drab @_Thor_ @Thirdtimeisacharm @hlee @Shoots700’s @davsco @6.5SH
1. Any JULY match participant will receive a free match, good through at least the end of 2025. It's a small gesture but necessary.
2. I'm seriously considering limiting match participation to 40 people total; 4 squads of 10 people. With 9 stages, that allows us to stagger squads so there is an empty stage between them and the next squad. That allows squads to move freely to the next stage and hopefully builds a buffer for the slow squads so the match has an acceptable pace.
3. I spoke with Tim Friday and we have ideas for props and improvements. While we can't implement immediately, we have obtained other props to replace those that were not to standard and that we can use for next Saturday's match. New props will be constructed from tube steel and be robust enough that will probably still be in use when I reach my expiration date.
4. We bought a gently used Terrapin X and will be using it to confirm distance to targets. I reviewed the PLRFs the team was using and was not satisfied they were to the level needed to assure accuracy. I will take DBD's suggestion and park a big shinny truck next to every shooting position to validate ranges.
a. NOTE: Teams were using Maztech 15k's (mil models no less) but I was unsuccessful in my attempt to borrow them. 
b. We still have the LIMFAC of late day range access; we can only access the range for setup Friday afternoon. While the match book is done, we won't have final target ranges until late Friday.
5. Visitor Control may have changed their policies again, requiring match participants to get a day pass to attend, or be a member of the club for a one-year DBIDS card, at least that's what the weekend crew told me. As I said before, that's not our agreement so I'll re-engage next week when the boss is available. Short-term work around is to make a special member card for match participants to allow yearly DBIDS.
6. I threw out a number of props and moved others so Teams could use / abuse them as needed. I made clear we will focus on quality and only use serviceable and stable props that will be staked.
We bought three differing sized cable spools - a 54", 42" and a 36". These replace the single 54" that was past its prime.
We bought tank trap knuckles and built a new tank trap. We have three knuckles and will build traps of differing sizes for use.
We bought swing set knuckles and built a slant prop for use.
We ditched the old and worn shooting benches and replaced them (thanks to WTBn) with new, unused versions for modified prone.
We're reviewing the current steel props to ensure they will be stable for competition use, and we will be repainting them this week.
What have I missed???
@TheOE800 @Baron23 @Jingoist @Rob01 @chrome @DeathBeforeDismount @smoothy8500 @Lastsaint21 @Tritiumdials @olive drab @_Thor_ @Thirdtimeisacharm @hlee @Shoots700’s @davsco @6.5SH
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For match flow I would recommend 9 stages of 6-10 shooters max. This gives you the option if needed to throw out a stage if you HAVE to and still count as points match.
Smaller squads on every stage will move much faster flow wise. You dont want squads moving around, that will disrupt match flow more than you would think. Experienced MDs have hashed this out over hundreds of matches so no need to try and reinvent the wheel. We already know what works for efficient and smooth flow.
Looks like you are taking everyone's comments to heart and trying your best..which is all anyone could ask. So thank you for that.
Just 2 small comments on those props.
1.The steel rooftop needs some anti skid for safety. You don't want people sliding around with loaded guns. Always plan the stage for worst case scenario....rain and wet conditions.
2. The steel ladder should not be shot from the top rung or you need to give shooter options such as 5 positions but need to move every position so they can use the 2 or 3 viable spots depending on their heights. They had a match there where we had to climb that and hang off the top and shoot it a few years ago. Super unsafe.
If you have time you should come to some other regional matches. Get an idea of different prop ideas and see how they run the match. You might be surprised how much you can learn and pick up just watching a few different venues run matches.
Smaller squads on every stage will move much faster flow wise. You dont want squads moving around, that will disrupt match flow more than you would think. Experienced MDs have hashed this out over hundreds of matches so no need to try and reinvent the wheel. We already know what works for efficient and smooth flow.
Looks like you are taking everyone's comments to heart and trying your best..which is all anyone could ask. So thank you for that.
Just 2 small comments on those props.
1.The steel rooftop needs some anti skid for safety. You don't want people sliding around with loaded guns. Always plan the stage for worst case scenario....rain and wet conditions.
2. The steel ladder should not be shot from the top rung or you need to give shooter options such as 5 positions but need to move every position so they can use the 2 or 3 viable spots depending on their heights. They had a match there where we had to climb that and hang off the top and shoot it a few years ago. Super unsafe.
If you have time you should come to some other regional matches. Get an idea of different prop ideas and see how they run the match. You might be surprised how much you can learn and pick up just watching a few different venues run matches.
I shoot regularly at Peacemaker and am a member. Don't shoot matches there. I drive to PA or MD for Mason Mason-Dixon when I can.
Draft Matchbook posted to PS; will be updated once distances are obtained on Friday.
Arrangements made with MCBQ to weld up new props once steel is obtained.
Terrapin received and will be integrated.
Working resolution to base access with one-year pass, but won't be solved this go. Anyone attending do the DBIDS pre-registration and report to the VCC early Sat morning with proper ID to get a pass.
Arrangements made with MCBQ to weld up new props once steel is obtained.
Terrapin received and will be integrated.
Working resolution to base access with one-year pass, but won't be solved this go. Anyone attending do the DBIDS pre-registration and report to the VCC early Sat morning with proper ID to get a pass.
If nobody else has thanked you foraccepting constructive criticism, investigating for yourself, and working your ass off getting it all straighten out and improved….well, I will.
Doing a hell of a job, my friend.
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