No, I did not forget about bears. I also did not forget about the moose, mountain lions and wolves that do NOT hibernate during the winter. Not to mention the human threat.
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AK-74 vs. Brown Bear outside of Anchorage
- Thread starter Anvil_X
- Start date
They're packing bolt-action rifles because they can't afford proper stopping rifles in double barrel (Heym, Holland & Holland) in 470, 500 NE or 577 Nitro Express which are the preferred Dangerous Game stopping rifles and are the proper rifles for stopping charges against large wounded dangerous game with the instant double trigger/second shot in case the first shot is a miss.
There's a big difference between a "hunting" rifle and a "stopping" rifle. Bolt-action rifles can get people killed. Pursuing a wounded dangerous game animal with any bolt-action rifle whether it's in 308 or 500 Jeffery is risky and stupid. I'm not arguing or disagreeing about the power of the cartridge or accuracy that comes in bolt-action rifles. Bolt-action rifles are great for hunting/sniping but, they're not for defensive speed during a charge in close proximity...
And yes, I personally would LOVE to have a Heym or H&H double barrel in 500/577 NE. It's not in many people's budget due to the fact that double barrel rifles, the good quality ones, not cheap poorly made Cabella's ones can cost $30k to $100k+. I'll take a semi-auto with 20 to 30 rounds of 556, 7.62x39 or 308 in Barnes TSX over a hail mary one shot bolt-action rifle. And, Alaskan State Troopers and local law enforcement in AK kill large brown bears with AR15's in 223/556.
This thread was created way back in 2013 because a guy in AK killed a charging brown bear with his AK74 in 5.45. Did he get fined/sued by the state for using an AK74 in 5.45 to stop a charge? In Alaska, does the state have a law requiring a minimum caliber restriction to use in self-defense against brown bears? Why would the state fine/sue anyone who shoots a brown bear in self-defense if the bear charges regardless of firearm/caliber? So, if you use an AK47 you get fined but, if you use a 50 BMG it's all good? Or, does it have to strictly be grampa's 30-06 made of wood featured in Field & Stream magazine? Phil Shoemaker killed a brown bear with a 9mm when it charged his clients...
Heck, a guy killed a polar bear with a 44 mag revolver...
Polar Bear Attack Stopped with a .44 Magnum in Alaska
On August 16, 2014, a Fish and Wildlife employee shot and killed a polar bear which was attempting to enter the tent they were sleeping in on Arey Island off the coast of the North Slope of Alaska.www.ammoland.com
Robert E Peterson killed a polar bear with a 44 mag revolver too...
Big Game African hunter explains why bolt-action rifles can get people killed to try to stop a charge. He almost got killed by a cape buffalo charge using a bolt-action rifle...
The troopers up here are using 12 ga shotties with slugs and buck. The only people using AR’s on game are the natives out in the bush, very successfully too.
Your facts are anecdotal, I very seriously doubt you have ever actually seen a bear outside the zoo.
Anyways, you do you kiddo. Tell your mom I said hi next time you go upstairs for a grilled cheese.
The AR15 is standard patrol rifle in the official equipment inventory for the Alaskan State Troopers.
Also...
How an Alaska police department increased shooting accuracy by changing its duty weapons...
How an Alaska police department increased shooting accuracy by changing its duty weapons
A crisp trigger, reduced recoil and smooth action make range practice a pleasure with this firearm
www.police1.com
And they have killed many brown bears with AR15's. And so have the natives "very successfully" using AR15's in 223/556. Thanks for proving my point that you don't need some bolt-action rifle to kill brown bears. So, what's the big deal? Again, this thread was started in 2013 about a Alaskan man who killed a brown bear with his AK74 in 5.45. He's a member here under the screenname Bergmann.
lol @ thinking that in order to kill a brown bear if you're a white male you need a bolt-action rifle, but "oh yeah the natives kill brown bears with AR15's very successfully." lol
There is this crazy belief almost like a dogma that has been created over the years among a certain group of white males online that in order to kill dangerous game it has to be from a bolt-action rifle but, they can't agree on what minimum caliber it starts at, 300 WM? 375? 416? 458 Lott? It just needs to be fired from a bolt-action rifle to have any real effect on the animal in their minds. But, natives successfully kill brown bears and polar bears with AR15's. lol The reality is that has to do with financial restraints, the more expensive double barrel rifle is superior within 50 yards at stopping a charge.
"The native brown skin when it touches the trigger it gives the 223/5.56 bullets magical spiritual powers that only the natives posses. The white man needs bolt-action rifles in 375 or 416 to have any effect on the brown bear." lol
This white man killed a Cape Buffalo with a handgun in 500 Linebaugh...
This white man stopped a Cape Buffalo charge with a S&W 500 handgun @ 2:10 in the video below...
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I know a few people who have hunted water Buffalo in Africa and none of them had double rifles. All of them had bolt action rifles.
One of the guys shot a grizzly with his 375 H&h also. He said after seeing the swath it tore through the forest. He might choose something bigger next time.
Show of hands who didnt know this guy was going to be a tard from post #1.
One of the guys shot a grizzly with his 375 H&h also. He said after seeing the swath it tore through the forest. He might choose something bigger next time.
Show of hands who didnt know this guy was going to be a tard from post #1.
That often has to do with $$$. A good double barrel rifle starts around $20,000 and goes up past $100,000+ dollars. 99.9% of people will settle for a $1,500 to $4,000 dollar bolt action rifle and rightfully so. I would not want to pursue a wounded dangerous game with one though.I know a few people who have hunted water Buffalo in Africa and none of them had double rifles. All of them had bolt action rifles.
One of the guys shot a grizzly with his 375 H&h also. He said after seeing the swath it tore through the forest. He might choose something bigger next time.
The AR15 is standard patrol rifle in the official equipment inventory for the Alaskan State Troopers.
Also...
How an Alaska police department increased shooting accuracy by changing its duty weapons...
How an Alaska police department increased shooting accuracy by changing its duty weapons
A crisp trigger, reduced recoil and smooth action make range practice a pleasure with this firearm
And they have killed many brown bears with AR15's. And so have the natives "very successfully" using AR15's in 223/556. Thanks for proving my point that you don't need some bolt-action rifle to kill brown bears. So, what's the big deal? Again, this thread was started in 2013 about a Alaskan man who killed a brown bear with his AK74 in 5.45. He's a member here under the screenname Bergmann.
lol @ thinking that in order to kill a brown bear if you're a white male you need a bolt-action rifle, but "oh yeah the natives kill brown bears with AR15's very successfully." lol
There is this crazy belief almost like a dogma that has been created over the years among a certain group of white males online that in order to kill dangerous game it has to be from a bolt-action rifle but, they can't agree on what minimum caliber it starts at, 300 WM? 375? 416? 458 Lott? It just needs to be fired from a bolt-action rifle to have any real effect on the animal in their minds. But, natives successfully kill brown bears and polar bears with AR15's. lol That has to do with financial restraints, the more expensive double barrel rifle is superior within 50 yards at stopping a charge.
"The native brown skin when it touches the trigger it gives the 223/5.56 bullets magical spiritual powers that only the natives posses. The white man needs bolt-action rifles in 375 or 416 to have any effect on the brown bear." lol
This white man killed a Cape Buffalo with a handgun in 500 Linebaugh...
This white man stopped a Cape Buffalo charge with a S&W 500 handgun @ 2:10 in the video below...
Jesus fuck man. Do yourself a favor and call AK fish and game, ask to talk with the bear biologist. Ask him these same questions, you’ll get a very similar reply. Can what you’re saying be done? Yes it can, should it be done? Probably not. 9/10 bears are easy to kill, it’s the 10th one that is going to maul you. Ask the biologist what the percentage of charges are that are bluff charges? Then ask him what’s going to happen after you drop one. It’s going to launch an investigation where you are going to have to prove you did everything in your power to avoid destroying that animal. That’s where the fines kick in, illegal take of a game animal, wanton waste, etc… You’re the type who will see your very first bear, shit your pants and shoot it because it’s going to charge. Just like the dude in 2005/2006 who shot a sow with twin cubs with a sks, on the Russian river, because he thought it was going to charge.
You’re using articles and anecdotal evidence to tell me about the stuff I fucking live. I’ve had more close bear encounters than you’ve ever seen bears in the zoo. I also have friends who are leo up here. Troopers, municipal police, etc… The dudes who have a decent chance of having to handle a wildlife call, absolutely have 12 gauges. Fuck, call any of the state trooper outposts yourself, ask to talk to the brown shirt, he’s the wildlife guy, ask him what his bear gun is.
I’ve met Phil shoemaker, he’s a super nice guy. I’ve also sat at the bar in Cold Bay, AK with some other long time bear guides, talking bears and bear rifles. Phil’s killed bears with all sorts of calibers, but ask him what is in his hands backing up clients? Sure, you can drop a bear with 556 with correct shot placement and enough rounds on target. I use to fly this little old native lady out of Crooked Creek, AK that shot her bears with a 22. “Takes four shots” she used to tell me. That said, I’ve seen multiple bears soak up 375 and 338 rounds, hit the tundra with each hit (all shoulder/lung impacts) bounce up like it’s a trampoline and keep running. What slowed them down was the 458. But you do you.
At this point, I’m out. But tell your dad if I don’t see some royalties from your mom and I’s only fans, I’m calling the lawyers.
Specifically for brown bear, would you prefer an ar in 5.56, ak in 7.62, or an A300 patrol in 12 ga w/ extended mag tube and slugs.
@supercorndogs I don’t see any hands.
Ar or scar 17. Prolly the scar
Pure fantasy land I only shoot thin skinned guilty animals. But I know the more shoots you have the better. Judging by my performance at unlimited round count versus normal matches
#accuracythroughvolume
Or get the fuck out.
I was watching a seasoned dangerous game hunter on YouTube the other day. He did use a double gun. He would broadside shoot the Buffalo with one barrel, then wait for it to get close on the charge and finish it with the other.
You're unhinged and unstable.
I respect many Biologists and Park Rangers. But, you have to be very careful with political activism and corruption in those professions and political lies. Some of them are activists who care more about the well-being of the bear than they do about the safety of the human. Some tell you that, "All you need is bear spray and that's it." Or, "Bear spray is more effective against brown bears than any gun."
It doesn't matter what gun or caliber you use to shoot a brown bear in self defense with, they are protected animals. I know this. If you have to shoot a brown bear in self defense with either a handgun, a semi-auto assault rifle or a bolt-action rifle you have to report it. They will treat it like a crime scene regardless of the weapon used and pull out the measuring tape and see how far the bear was when it dropped to your foot prints. It does not matter what firearm and caliber ammo you used. That's not the debate here. The debate here is which gun/operating system is fastest in responding to a bear charge? A double barrel rifle and semi-auto rifle gets off the second shot quicker than a bolt-action rifle does. That's the point I was trying to make, while you are focusing on the legal part after the bear has been killed.
A real self defense situation where the bear charges and is NOT a bluff charge, you are allowed to defend your life (DLP).
I have to protect myself in a self-defense situation and use the firearm that is best suited for my needs in that specific environment. I don't want a bolt-action rifle to carry around for self-defense if I'm caught off guard, ambushed and charged. I'm not focused on caliber, I'm focused on the gun's operating system, speed and how many bullets can be shot as fast a possible at point blank range.
Biologists and Park Rangers are not ballistic specialists and do not design and engineer bullets or test them on animals to see how effective they are. Tim Sundles, the owner of Buffalobore Ammo is and the people who work for him are experts and they know what works. For handguns against brown bear, he prefers a revolver in 500 JRH and 500 Linebaugh and he has shot many brown bears with them with hard cast bullets. He also designed the 9mm hard cast used by Phil Shoemaker that killed the brown bear as a DLP. He also talks about the corruption with Park Rangers he's personally dealt with who tried to entrap him.
And, Phil Shoemaker did NOT have any rifle on him when he was with his clients when they were charged and the brown bear was on top of them. He had a 9mm handgun. He explained why in the interview below...
Below, I'll trust Bergmann who was charged by a brown bear over you and your nonsense, your storytelling.
On the first page of this thread, a member here (Bergmann) shot and killed a brown bear with his AK74 in 5.45 after it charged him. Did he get fined or arrested? No. Why not? Because it was a DLP. Bergmann also posted a link to a story about the late Ken Cates who was killed in Alaska in 1999 by a brown bear, he had with him a bolt-action rifle and no sidearm. From the reports at the scene of the attack it looked like Ken might have had trouble operating the bolt in a high stress situation. Bergmann said on Page 3 that Ken might have had a better chance of surviving if he had a semi-auto. I think it's safe to say that if Ken was able to use an AK47, AR15, or FN SCAR etc and unload on the bear 10+ shots rapid fire he'd rather be alive and deal with the legal consequences instead of being killed...
True Life Fishing and Hunting Stories - Bear Attack
True life fishing and hunting stories from Tales of The Ultimate Sportsmen - Bear Attack
www.ultimatesportsmen.com
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