Just wondering if this is too far fetched to think I, or anybody for that matter, can get .5 moa at a mile. Custom built 338 Lapua, sub .5 moa at 1000. Just for conversation...
Don't have the above rifle yet.
Don't have the above rifle yet.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Doable, I have never done it, but doable.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/
Doable, I have never done it, but doable.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Not sure with 338LM but doable with some of the other cartridges that allow more shooter error percentages and have better BC projectiles to assist in downrange accuracy.
Not sure with 338LM but doable with some of the other cartridges that allow more shooter error percentages and have better BC projectiles to assist in downrange accuracy.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Later, I know what you are saying. And maybe someone can once in a while shoot a .5 MOA group consisting of a few selected shots under ideal conditions, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/</div></div> If you only count three of his shots the group is even smaller. Count two shots and the group shrinks again. Otherwise, 22.5" divided by 17.6 is....
Later, I know what you are saying. And maybe someone can once in a while shoot a .5 MOA group consisting of a few selected shots under ideal conditions, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/</div></div> If you only count three of his shots the group is even smaller. Count two shots and the group shrinks again. Otherwise, 22.5" divided by 17.6 is....
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Later, I know what you are saying. And maybe someone can once in a while shoot a .5 MOA group consisting of a few selected shots under ideal conditions, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/</div></div> If you only count three of his shots the group is even smaller. Count two shots and the group shrinks again. Otherwise, 22.5" divided by 17.6 is.... </div></div>
Thats exactly why I prefer not to shoot groups but to shoot individual targets even at same distance. I just get better personal use and feel for things that way. Variables change too quick in the ELR game IMO to shoot "groups". Even when shooting same target the TOF, Time to recalculate solution, etc makes it feel like its new shot to begin with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Later, I know what you are saying. And maybe someone can once in a while shoot a .5 MOA group consisting of a few selected shots under ideal conditions, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/</div></div> If you only count three of his shots the group is even smaller. Count two shots and the group shrinks again. Otherwise, 22.5" divided by 17.6 is.... </div></div>
Thats exactly why I prefer not to shoot groups but to shoot individual targets even at same distance. I just get better personal use and feel for things that way. Variables change too quick in the ELR game IMO to shoot "groups". Even when shooting same target the TOF, Time to recalculate solution, etc makes it feel like its new shot to begin with.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Agreed. So, to put his question another way, can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?
I'll make it even easier: Forget the cold bore first round hit; I'll give you two sighters if you can guarantee the next three hits in a row.
Agreed. So, to put his question another way, can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?
I'll make it even easier: Forget the cold bore first round hit; I'll give you two sighters if you can guarantee the next three hits in a row.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Nope but thats what appeals alot of people to "groups" due to even if it is what would be considered a "miss" for all practical purposes it gets to count in groups without adverse affects as long as remainder of shots are in that area.
Nope but thats what appeals alot of people to "groups" due to even if it is what would be considered a "miss" for all practical purposes it gets to count in groups without adverse affects as long as remainder of shots are in that area.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Doable, or repeatable? Doable says even a blind dog gets lucky once in a while. The question is can you repeat the results with any regularity?
Doable, or repeatable? Doable says even a blind dog gets lucky once in a while. The question is can you repeat the results with any regularity?
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Ha Ha Ha, good one Nine. I asked the above question because I just hadn't put any thought into it but let my mouth run before firing up my brain in a conversation earlier today about .5 MOA at 1760.
I will have results in a month or so as I wring out my new rifle at a mile. "can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?" Graham, when you put it that way, for me that would be one hell of a lucky shot to first round, or even 3rd round hit.
I will of course cherry pick my day to shoot, but in all honesty I will be very happy to get close to MOA at the mile mark.
Thanks for the feed back.
JtP
Ha Ha Ha, good one Nine. I asked the above question because I just hadn't put any thought into it but let my mouth run before firing up my brain in a conversation earlier today about .5 MOA at 1760.
I will have results in a month or so as I wring out my new rifle at a mile. "can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?" Graham, when you put it that way, for me that would be one hell of a lucky shot to first round, or even 3rd round hit.
I will of course cherry pick my day to shoot, but in all honesty I will be very happy to get close to MOA at the mile mark.
Thanks for the feed back.
JtP
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?" I will of course cherry pick my day to shoot, but in all honesty I will be very happy to get close to MOA at the mile mark.
Thanks for the feed back.
JtP </div></div>
Jim, just out of curiosity, what is the longest shot that you have ever made? Please don't take the wrong way. I am just trying to get a sense for your "comfort" level shall we say when it comes to long range, or ultra long range shot as defined by Later. A 9" plate will look pretty damn small at the distance that you want to shoot. Obviously, you first will need a gun that can produce a true 0.5 MOA at 1200 + yards consistently. Then you are going to need a consistent "operator" with a damn good knowledge of reading the wind at that distance. I can assure you at that distance the wind is going to be different for every shot you take. It is not going to be easy. I guess your question should really be can you hit a 1/2 MOA target "frequently" at 1760 yards? I am sure that there are folks out there that can do that. But I am sure there aren't that many around.
I have below is a standard size metal target at 1575 yards. I hit four shots. It took more than just 3 -4 shots to get the doping correctly. That target looks damn small at 1575 yards (I am still a bit away from your 1760 yards). I am happy if I can hit a human size metal silhouette at 1 mile.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "can you hit a 9" plate consistently at 1760 yards with a .338?" I will of course cherry pick my day to shoot, but in all honesty I will be very happy to get close to MOA at the mile mark.
Thanks for the feed back.
JtP </div></div>
Jim, just out of curiosity, what is the longest shot that you have ever made? Please don't take the wrong way. I am just trying to get a sense for your "comfort" level shall we say when it comes to long range, or ultra long range shot as defined by Later. A 9" plate will look pretty damn small at the distance that you want to shoot. Obviously, you first will need a gun that can produce a true 0.5 MOA at 1200 + yards consistently. Then you are going to need a consistent "operator" with a damn good knowledge of reading the wind at that distance. I can assure you at that distance the wind is going to be different for every shot you take. It is not going to be easy. I guess your question should really be can you hit a 1/2 MOA target "frequently" at 1760 yards? I am sure that there are folks out there that can do that. But I am sure there aren't that many around.
I have below is a standard size metal target at 1575 yards. I hit four shots. It took more than just 3 -4 shots to get the doping correctly. That target looks damn small at 1575 yards (I am still a bit away from your 1760 yards). I am happy if I can hit a human size metal silhouette at 1 mile.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
1 mile with my AR 50. I also shoot quite a bit at 1245 yards.
Target board is 36"x48".
This is a group I shot at 950 last week with my 6.5Lapua . Two outside shots fired first to correct for wind, then 5 for effect. They went 5.5".
1 mile with my AR 50. I also shoot quite a bit at 1245 yards.
Target board is 36"x48".
This is a group I shot at 950 last week with my 6.5Lapua . Two outside shots fired first to correct for wind, then 5 for effect. They went 5.5".
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Somewhat close to the 1/2 MOA objective on a very calm day with 30-375 Ruger.240 SMK's at 2775 FPS.
2 groups on the target.One 7 shot group on the top and a 9 shot group on the bottom.Pretend,and pick the five closest in each group.On the top group there are two shots touching and the bottom group 3 shots into 1.5 inches.In the middle of the lower group there are six shots that would have hit a 9 inch plate.I would never have had results like this if it wasn't so calm.
1800 yards away
Steve
Somewhat close to the 1/2 MOA objective on a very calm day with 30-375 Ruger.240 SMK's at 2775 FPS.
2 groups on the target.One 7 shot group on the top and a 9 shot group on the bottom.Pretend,and pick the five closest in each group.On the top group there are two shots touching and the bottom group 3 shots into 1.5 inches.In the middle of the lower group there are six shots that would have hit a 9 inch plate.I would never have had results like this if it wasn't so calm.
1800 yards away
Steve
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
You wouldn't be shooting a nine inch disk, you would be shooting an 18 inch target if you are not shooting groups. AS 1/2 MOA at that point becomes "POI within 1/2 MOA of POA" That means 9 inches + or - of POA. If you were hitting a 9 inch target at a mile you would be within 1/4 MOA, a much more difficult task. Just my understanding of the question posed.
At one mile consistently hitting within 1/2 MOA of POA with a cold bore is going to be tough. Hitting within 1/2 MOA of your last shot a little easier so long as conditions are fairly constant. Which are you testing, the gun or the shooter? There are guns out there easily capable of 1/2 MOA at a mile.
You wouldn't be shooting a nine inch disk, you would be shooting an 18 inch target if you are not shooting groups. AS 1/2 MOA at that point becomes "POI within 1/2 MOA of POA" That means 9 inches + or - of POA. If you were hitting a 9 inch target at a mile you would be within 1/4 MOA, a much more difficult task. Just my understanding of the question posed.
At one mile consistently hitting within 1/2 MOA of POA with a cold bore is going to be tough. Hitting within 1/2 MOA of your last shot a little easier so long as conditions are fairly constant. Which are you testing, the gun or the shooter? There are guns out there easily capable of 1/2 MOA at a mile.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doable, I have never done it, but doable.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/
</div></div>
Doable or extremely lucky?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doable, I have never done it, but doable.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f36/3-806-group-1-680-yards-29645/
</div></div>
Doable or extremely lucky?
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 mile with my AR 50. I also shoot quite a bit at 1245 yards.
Target board is 36"x48".
This is a group I shot at 950 last week with my 6.5Lapua . Two outside shots fired first to correct for wind, then 5 for effect. They went 5.5". </div></div>
Yes - you have pictorial proof that when you remove wide shots from a shot grouping, the group becomes smaller, regardless of the distance it was shot at or the rifle used to do the shooting.
If one were to get their SD down into single digits then use a machine rested (bolted to a concrete pillar) projectile launcher one would find that as the amount of atmosphere between the rifle and the target directly effects the ability to fire the projectiles into the same spot.
My point is, once you remove the shooter and the load from the equation, what do you have left? What does your original question really set out to prove or dis-prove?
Please do not take this as criticism Jim. My posts like this are purely to promote further thought on a line of thinking someone is following, like you in this case. What are you trying to prove? In the quest for that proof, how many variables can you eliminate and how will you eliminate them?
Back in the late 90's Dr. Taylor and others published a series of articles in Precision Shooting that involved his "Balanced Flight" theory, the bigger cases, the .408 bore diameter, heavy rifles, and lathe-turned projectiles. We are 10+ years (and many lawsuits) post that work yet people are still asking the same questions. Did they really answer anything? Did they really invent something or change the way bullets fly or create a theory and methodology that can be scaled up and scaled down in an order to improve accuracy and repeatability in existing small arms and artillery?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim the Plumber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1 mile with my AR 50. I also shoot quite a bit at 1245 yards.
Target board is 36"x48".
This is a group I shot at 950 last week with my 6.5Lapua . Two outside shots fired first to correct for wind, then 5 for effect. They went 5.5". </div></div>
Yes - you have pictorial proof that when you remove wide shots from a shot grouping, the group becomes smaller, regardless of the distance it was shot at or the rifle used to do the shooting.
If one were to get their SD down into single digits then use a machine rested (bolted to a concrete pillar) projectile launcher one would find that as the amount of atmosphere between the rifle and the target directly effects the ability to fire the projectiles into the same spot.
My point is, once you remove the shooter and the load from the equation, what do you have left? What does your original question really set out to prove or dis-prove?
Please do not take this as criticism Jim. My posts like this are purely to promote further thought on a line of thinking someone is following, like you in this case. What are you trying to prove? In the quest for that proof, how many variables can you eliminate and how will you eliminate them?
Back in the late 90's Dr. Taylor and others published a series of articles in Precision Shooting that involved his "Balanced Flight" theory, the bigger cases, the .408 bore diameter, heavy rifles, and lathe-turned projectiles. We are 10+ years (and many lawsuits) post that work yet people are still asking the same questions. Did they really answer anything? Did they really invent something or change the way bullets fly or create a theory and methodology that can be scaled up and scaled down in an order to improve accuracy and repeatability in existing small arms and artillery?
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You wouldn't be shooting a nine inch disk, you would be shooting an 18 inch target if you are not shooting groups. AS 1/2 MOA at that point becomes "POI within 1/2 MOA of POA" That means 9 inches + or - of POA. If you were hitting a 9 inch target at a mile you would be within 1/4 MOA, a much more difficult task. Just my understanding of the question posed.</div></div>That 'understanding' would also make it easier to hit the target.
The difference between plus one half and minus one half is one, whether on a plate or on paper. 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You wouldn't be shooting a nine inch disk, you would be shooting an 18 inch target if you are not shooting groups. AS 1/2 MOA at that point becomes "POI within 1/2 MOA of POA" That means 9 inches + or - of POA. If you were hitting a 9 inch target at a mile you would be within 1/4 MOA, a much more difficult task. Just my understanding of the question posed.</div></div>That 'understanding' would also make it easier to hit the target.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
I guess it all depends on what is being asked whether it is possible I can see the question as asking one of 3 possibilities.
If the question is "cold bore shots at a 1/2 MOA sized target consistantly." I know I cant do it.
If the question is can someone hit w/n 1/2 MOA of POA consistently it is a little more probable. (no that I can do it, but that some who knows thier stuff can)
If the question is can someone shoot a 1/2 MOA group at a mile then I would say that has been laid to rest, yes doable.
I guess it all depends on what is being asked whether it is possible
If the question is "cold bore shots at a 1/2 MOA sized target consistantly." I know I cant do it.
If the question is can someone hit w/n 1/2 MOA of POA consistently it is a little more probable. (no that I can do it, but that some who knows thier stuff can)
If the question is can someone shoot a 1/2 MOA group at a mile then I would say that has been laid to rest, yes doable.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
The range (hay field) that the Elberton, GA gun club uses to host it's 1,000 yard matches is going to be out to 1 Mile for the scheduled June Match. We are going to be shooting at a 7 ft. dia. saw blade & I just hope to hit it! I'm sure everyone will get better with practice but my goals are just to hit the thing anywhere at first. You have to be a member of the Elbert County Gun Club to shoot ($85.00 the first year I think)but maybe we'll be able to speed up the learning curve if some more experienced shooters show up.
The range (hay field) that the Elberton, GA gun club uses to host it's 1,000 yard matches is going to be out to 1 Mile for the scheduled June Match. We are going to be shooting at a 7 ft. dia. saw blade & I just hope to hit it! I'm sure everyone will get better with practice but my goals are just to hit the thing anywhere at first. You have to be a member of the Elbert County Gun Club to shoot ($85.00 the first year I think)but maybe we'll be able to speed up the learning curve if some more experienced shooters show up.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Woodsmack:
You are wrong in your entire reply, sit back and read up and research some more man. MOA is related to distance(yardage). Half MOA at 100yd is NOT same ruler size as Half MOA at 1000yds.
Thanks
Woodsmack:
You are wrong in your entire reply, sit back and read up and research some more man. MOA is related to distance(yardage). Half MOA at 100yd is NOT same ruler size as Half MOA at 1000yds.
Thanks
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
The Aussies did it repeatedly during their caliber selection as I'm sure many other have, which is one reason it's so widely used.
If it's capable.. it's capable. Variables and human error will always be constants.
The Aussies did it repeatedly during their caliber selection as I'm sure many other have, which is one reason it's so widely used.
If it's capable.. it's capable. Variables and human error will always be constants.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Variables and human error will always be constants. </div></div>
LOL, think about what you said.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fredo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Variables and human error will always be constants. </div></div>
LOL, think about what you said.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
I had the same reaction... and then decided the wording was intentional.
I had the same reaction... and then decided the wording was intentional.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Not putting any pressure on me are yah Jim!!!
Although, we have both seen stranger things happen with the big 338's. I have seen some 3 to 5 shot groups from a couple of 338 Edges at 1800 that hover around the 9" mark. We will find out soon.
Not putting any pressure on me are yah Jim!!!
Although, we have both seen stranger things happen with the big 338's. I have seen some 3 to 5 shot groups from a couple of 338 Edges at 1800 that hover around the 9" mark. We will find out soon.
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Ha Ha Ha yup, got the faith in you Travis!
If Shayla's, yours and Jesse's rifles are any indication, I'll not have to worry. With a calm overcast day here we Will find out what it will do at 1760. Hope you will make it over then and play as well. I'm getting wound up to get a 1000 yard+ 'chuck kill this spring as well.
JtP
Ha Ha Ha yup, got the faith in you Travis!
If Shayla's, yours and Jesse's rifles are any indication, I'll not have to worry. With a calm overcast day here we Will find out what it will do at 1760. Hope you will make it over then and play as well. I'm getting wound up to get a 1000 yard+ 'chuck kill this spring as well.
JtP
Re: 1/2 MOA at 1760 yards doable??
Thanks JTP. I will be over there quite a bit this spring and summer shooting with you guys. Also hoping to get the 1000+ yd chuck on video.
Thanks JTP. I will be over there quite a bit this spring and summer shooting with you guys. Also hoping to get the 1000+ yd chuck on video.
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