100yard group?

[towert7]

I was curious, what group size are people getting out at 100 yards with 22LR setups and calm wind?

I tried a few 100 yard shots and once I found where to hold I felt comfortable getting shots within 2.6inches using a bipod. I have a feeling this is a pretty poor grouping size, but wanted to ask and see.

Thanks

 

[VYD]

Re: 100yard group?

Wolf Match Extra and one of the Lapua loads print .5" at 100 yards indoors, benchrested.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: 100yard group?

In calm conditions, with a good rifle and ammo, consistent sub-MOA is possible. A light breeze will, however make things difficult.

What rifle and ammo are you shooting?

 

[Blanco]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Towert7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious, what group size are people getting out at 100 yards with 22LR setups and calm wind?

I tried a few 100 yard shots and once I found where to hold I felt comfortable getting shots within 2.6inches using a bipod. I have a feeling this is a pretty poor grouping size, but wanted to ask and see.

Thanks </div></div>


I haven't shot at 100 yards yet, but I'm averaging 0.3 inch groups at 50 yards with my 64 BR. That is about 40% better than 1 MOA. So, I'm guessing I would average 0.6 inch groups at 100 yards. I've only been shooting benchrest for one month, so I'm looking forward to eventually trying 100 yards.
By the way, that's with high quality ammo and low wind. Of course, that's just a theoretical number, since I haven't actually done it yet.



Cordially,
Blanco

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Towert7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was curious, what group size are people getting out at 100 yards with 22LR setups and calm wind?

I tried a few 100 yard shots and once I found where to hold I felt comfortable getting shots within 2.6inches using a bipod. I have a feeling this is a pretty poor grouping size, but wanted to ask and see.

Thanks </div></div>What kind of rifle are you using? If I use my Savage Mark II, nothing special about it, I can get about 1.7" five-shot groups at 100 yards. Ammo has some factor here too. I seem to get better groups with CCI "Green Tag" and the Remington "Eley" ammo. Oddly enough, this rifle seems to shoot CCI "Stingers" into about a 1.8" group at 100 yards too.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: 100yard group?

I have what i believe are the best custom built 22s money can buy. I have a 200 yard indoor range. I use a March 10x60 power scope. With a tuner set i can sometimes get 25 shots into .75 inches at 100. Not allways. On a couple of trips i have had 10 shot groups at .5 inches. Thats indoors at 75 to 80 degrees.

 

[CMH]

Re: 100yard group?

I shot a couple of 1.25-1.5" groups at 100 yards with a light wind out of a CZ 455 I had. I have an Anschutz arriving tommorow - we will see how it compares. As others have said ammo is key - bulk pack ammo out of the same gun was 4-5" out of the same gun under the same conditions.

Casey

 

[towert7]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What rifle and ammo are you shooting? </div></div>

I was using bulk Federal (525 pack) and a CZ452 thin barrel.

 

[towert7]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In calm conditions, with a good rifle and ammo, consistent sub-MOA is possible. A light breeze will, however make things difficult.
</div></div>

Excellent, that gives me something to aim for.
When I reach my limit with the federal ammo I'll switch to something a little more match grade.

 

[aloreman]

Re: 100yard group?

cz 452 with eley shooting just under an inch for 5 shots

 

[clayne_b]

Re: 100yard group?

I have never shot for 100 yard groups but have shot groups at 144 yards, best group i got was 5 shots 0.78 moa, Cz 452 scout, with cci sv

 

[7mm-08 Freak]

Re: 100yard group?

I just rebarreled a 10/22 with a suppresed tac sol and it shot .5 at 100 yds. I was real happy!

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Towert7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> what group size are people getting out at 100 yards with 22LR setups and calm wind?
... getting shots within 2.6inches using a bipod. I have a feeling this is a pretty poor grouping size....
Thanks</div></div>
of course it depends on the rifle, the ammo, and the shooter. nothing wrong with 2.6" if that's all that combo could do. if your 2.6" group is is repeatable time after time, then it's an excellent group for what you are using as it is consistant / relative to what you have either equipment or in skills set.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Towert7</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I was using bulk Federal (525 pack) and a CZ452 thin barrel. </div></div>
IMO, 2.6" with bulk 525 ammo and a sporter barrel isn't poor, switch to a standard velocity or match ammo. this should help pull in the groups more, probably by at least .75" tighter. second, adjust the trigger to be lighter and crisper, if it's a non adjustable, consider picking up an adjustable trigger for it. the ease of the squeeze will probably knock off at least another .25 of human error.

doing those two should bring you into a 1.5"ish area out of the gate. the CZ452 is a pretty darn good rifle, but may be as good as it's going to get with that sporter barrel, on average.

wasn't too long ago that 2.6" was awesome, but nowadays with better manufacturing processes of rifles, ammos, and more emphasis on using rimfires as a "serious precision platform" at 100+ yards, some folks are getting groups unheard of or not thought possible before.

although it's nice to strive for, i wouldn't expect under or at 1" at 100 yards with average equipment <span style="font-weight: bold">consistantly</span>, as you'll probably frustrate the heck out of yourself. in reality 1.25" to 2" would probably be viewed as good group using average / stock equipment, whereas the 40x / anschutz thoroughbreds should be at least 1.25" and under, <span style="font-weight: bold">consistantly</span>.

the "long range competition" sticky up top of the forum has several years worth of 100 yard group photos to browse to get a feel of what's working / average.

this thread will probably turn into another pissing match along the way on what to expect, but remember shooting a sub MOA group twice out of twenty times does not constitute a sub MOA rifle, and an "all day long" rifle doesn't describe what it printed the day before or after.

 

[gqllc007]

Re: 100yard group?

Here is a group at 100 yards with my Ruger 10/22 bench rifle. I used eley match ammo 10 rounds...circle is one inch

 

[clayne_b]

Re: 100yard group?

!!!WOW!!! thats all i have to say

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: 100yard group?

I get about .75" at 100 yards with my Savage Mark II thumbhole stock. I use CCI target 40 gr round nose lead at 1,070 fps.

Something to try before switching to "match" ammo. Can also be bought in bulk packs of 500 of you can find them.

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: 100yard group?

Double post...

 

[AHall]

Re: 100yard group?

100yrds ~50*f.
Savage mkII TR, centerpoint 4-16 set to x12, off bipod and rear bag.
Left federal bulk, right cci mini mag. Both 5 shot groups.

I don't expect to do this everytime. Haven't had a day to find what the rifle likes best and repeat for a solid repeatable grouping.

 

[NYCEGUY01]

Re: 100yard group?

This is from this morning.
Anschutz 1803.
Bipod with no rear bag etc... Just my shoulder.
Also, No scope.
I wanted to play with the sights for a while before mounting glass...
I think I can do better. Im going to play this way for a bit.

CCI standard Velocity Green Tag ammo...

 

[jthyttin]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gqllc007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a group at 100 yards with my Ruger 10/22 bench rifle. I used eley match ammo 10 rounds...circle is one inch

</div></div>

No way that target shows a 1" circle with .22" holes...

 

[AR-180]

Re: 100yard group?

I just tested an Anschutz Match 54 with CCI standard, T22 and several very pricey brands. I was getting 10 shot groups between 1.5" and 2" at 100 yards in a light breeze. I was using a 16x scope.

I would love to see some test targets where people could put 5 sub-moa groups on one target.

 

[AR-180]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jthyttin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gqllc007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a group at 100 yards with my Ruger 10/22 bench rifle. I used eley match ammo 10 rounds...circle is one inch

</div></div>

No way that target shows a 1" circle with .22" holes... </div></div>

Perhaps 1" CTC.

 

[hessian]

Re: 100yard group?

Shot a monthly match in Iowa in mid-80's. 10 ring was 2 in. and x was1 in. You had to shoot 40x to win. Win 52 and Rem. 40x and Eleyweretops mostly. I used aWaltherand could not pass 38x. Lotsa fun. Still got some practice targets.

 

[jeffm]

Re: 100yard group?

Towert7. Most .22's will not consistently shoot under moa at 100. The groups talked about above are world class groups. 2.6” is typical of the ammo you are shooting. I have a CZ 452 sporter that I shoot around 5000 rounds a year through. With high end ammo it might average 1.5” at 100. With low end ammo I am at your 2.6”

 

[anthony1]

Re: 100yard group?

I have an anshultz, a rem40x, a win 52 and 531, kimber82g, cz varmit, and a few mark mark II's. I've been shooting rimfires since I was 6, Im almost 35 now.

I'll say this, I dont feel confident saying I could definitely go shoot a 5 shot sub moa group right now with any of those rifles. I've never shot consistent sub moa groups at 100yds ever, nor have I ever seen anyone in real life do so, yet I always hear alot of stories about people doing it online. Unless your in zero wind and shooting top of the line ammo sub moa isnt gonna happen with any consistency.

 

[GotCox]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jthyttin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gqllc007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a group at 100 yards with my Ruger 10/22 bench rifle. I used eley match ammo 10 rounds...circle is one inch

</div></div>

No way that target shows a 1" circle with .22" holes... </div></div>

ha ha ha ha I absolutly agree!! That guy is full of crap. 22lr is .223 or almost 1/4 inch wide per hole. So 4 shots strung in any direction would be 1 inch. Yet he has like 6 shots strung together and it is still 1/2 the bull. I love it when people try and pull some BS like that. Normal for the 10/22 crowd.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an anshultz, a rem40x, a win 52 and 531, kimber82g, cz varmit, and a few mark mark II's. I've been shooting rimfires since I was 6, Im almost 35 now.

I'll say this, I dont feel confident saying I could definitely go shoot a 5 shot sub moa group right now with any of those rifles. I've never shot consistent sub moa groups at 100yds ever, nor have I ever seen anyone in real life do so, yet I always hear alot of stories about people doing it online. Unless your in zero wind and shooting top of the line ammo sub moa isnt gonna happen with any consistency.
</div></div>

This is the best answer so far and an honest one. A sub 1 inch group happens from time to time. I shoot 3 to 4 days a week. And i can usally get a couple of groups under an inch. I dont know why but some days me and my guns are on track. 2 days latter with the same ammo that shot 1 inch will only shoot 1.5 some times bigger. But i have been surching for that half MOA 100 yard 22 for years. I guess it keeps me going. I have sold guns that shoot lights out for the buyers and didnt for me.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: 100yard group?

+ 1 Nesikabay and anthony1

I shoot Anschutz 64's and 54's, Rem 40XB's, and Win 52's with several top match ammos. Each rifle has its own preference. I do not shoot in formal comps so I don't spend the money on Eley Tenex ammo. I shoot the majority of my rounds prone, with bipod and no rear rest. I do on occasion shoot from the bench off bipod and no rear rest.

For me group size is relative to the number of rounds fired to formulate the group. I can consistently place "the right" 3-5 shots in less than 1 MOA group at 100 yards. Run the number of rounds fired to 10 and that group size more often than not exceeds 1 MOA. Take the number of rounds fired up to 25 and the average group will be greater than 1.5 MOA at 100 yards.

I do not weigh or sort my ammo by rim thickness or in any way at all. It comes out of the box and I shoot it. If I were shooting in formal competetion I might go this far, but I doubt it. I would more than likely spend the extra money on top quality tuner and "Top Tier" ammo and save the time.

Here is what I have done in 2011. These are my average rounds fired and group size at 100 yards with Anschutz 64 & 54, 40 XB, 52B shooting Wolf Match, Fiocchi ammos. I have fired approximtely 4,500 rounds of 22 LR thus far in 2011.

3 shot group - 0.75 MOA
5 shot group - 1.1 MOA
10 shot group- 1.4 MOA
25 shot group- 1.85 MOA
50 shot group- 2.25 MOA

Yes, I shoot a whole box of ammo into a single target from time to time, particularly when I am practicing trigger control and consistent cheek welds on various rifles. Having done this I can tell you that there is almost always 1-2 fliers from each box of ammo. Even when it is match grade ammo.

These are averages and yes, I on occasion I shoot a much better group. By the same measure, I on occasion, should have stayed at home and made some points with the wife, cause my shooting sucked that day.

Nesikabay, I would be overwhelmed to get a rifle/ammo combo that would consistently get me sub MOA groups for 25 rounds fired at 100 yards. For me you know it must be a "repeater" though.

Those who can consistently shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards, that consist of 10 rounds and more per group are far better shots than I.

 

[Blanco]

Re: 100yard group?

Aquatic-Robotic, the issue of what group size to shoot when testing ammo or rifle accuracy is one all shooters struggle with.
You might enjoy reading a couple of technical articles that deal with that topic on www.border-barrels.com. One is on "group statistics" and the second one is on "group analysis". There are also several other excellent articles on this site that I have personally enjoyed and benefited from.

Cordially,
Blanco

 

[NUTT]

Re: 100yard group?

On my most recent outing...

CZ 452, Silencerco Sparrow SS, Wolf MT.

5-shot groups, 65 degrees, humid, very light wind

50 yard - 0.3"
100 yard - 0.9"

 

[Cserv]

Re: 100yard group?

Savage MkII FV(all stock), Centerpoint 4-16x40(usually at 10x),Harris 9-13 bi-pod and rear bag, and Wolf MT's on a good day will get me around 1-1.5" a few times. This with me doing it all right. Anything more than a couple mph breeze and things open up. I also haven't replaced my stock or bedded it, or adjusted my trigger down. I shoot the rifle as it came. Still, not to shabby performance. IMHO.
Eric

 

[tansinator]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an anshultz, a rem40x, a win 52 and 531, kimber82g, cz varmit, and a few mark mark II's. I've been shooting rimfires since I was 6, Im almost 35 now.

I'll say this, I dont feel confident saying I could definitely go shoot a 5 shot sub moa group right now with any of those rifles. I've never shot consistent sub moa groups at 100yds ever, nor have I ever seen anyone in real life do so, yet I always hear alot of stories about people doing it online. Unless your in zero wind and shooting top of the line ammo sub moa isnt gonna happen with any consistency.
</div></div>

Nailed it! I shoot about 5000+/- rounds a year with 54 Anschutz with Wolf and this sums it up.

Eddie

 

[sweetbeard]

Re: 100yard group?

Savage MkII TRR-SR
CCI Standard ammo.


5 shot 100yd group

5 shot 50ft group

 

[isaaccarlson]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayne_b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never shot for 100 yard groups but have shot groups at 144 yards, best group i got was 5 shots 0.78 moa, Cz 452 scout, with cci sv </div></div>

And three of those shots were touching...I think it is safe to call the other two fliers.

 

[clayne_b]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clayne_b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never shot for 100 yard groups but have shot groups at 144 yards, best group i got was 5 shots 0.78 moa, Cz 452 scout, with cci sv </div></div>

And three of those shots were touching...I think it is safe to call the other two fliers.

</div></div>

lol i wish i could blame it on that. more shooting groups at that range will tell.

Here are a few pics guys 144 yards

 

[1979brj]

Re: 100yard group?

CCI = Good Stuff..

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: 100yard group?

Good stuff Anthony, Nesikabay and A-R... the 40X-B groups I have documented average 1.04" with my best ever being 0.53" at 100 yards. I use only R50 in my rifle.

On any given day I can shoot lights out... or lights FULLY on! LOL!!

 

[noahmercy]

Re: 100yard group?

My CZ452 ZKM plunks 5 shots into .75-1.0 inch all day long if conditions are right. That is with standard velocity ammo, off a good bench rest, and with my Nikon Monarch set at 7X (as high as it goes). The high-velocity stuff I shoot- Winchester Power Points and CCI Velocitors- go into an inch and a quarter or less most of the time (occasional flyers can open groups a half inch, but they are rare). The absolute worst group I've ever gotten was about two and three quarter inches, and that was with ammo where each round sounded completely different from the last. My ZKM is the least ammunition-sensitive rimfire I've ever shot.

I bought my 452 back in 2002, when I was peddling guns for a living. Every customer who bought one back then was blown away by the accuracy. I don't have any personal experience with how the newer ones shoot, but it seems like maybe their barrel tolerances aren't as precise as they once were, since most folks report groups about twice what mine delivers. Most also seem to suffer from dependence on premium ammo.

One thing that may very well help shrink groups (aside from copious practice) is to fire lap the barrel. Many- if not most- rimfires benefit from fire lapping. It tends to make them less ammo-sensitive and I've seen some remarkable reductions in group size...like over 50% smaller on one Henry I did for a friend! Also check your muzzle crown. A nearly microscopic burr or notch there can turn a great rimfire into a scattergun.

 

[shooter65]

Re: 100yard group?

10 @100 with a Kidd semi / Wolf ammo.
Target is a 300 meter International Target Reduced to 100 Yards. A-33

Wish I could do this all the time.

 

[tansinator]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10 @100 with a Kidd semi / Wolf ammo.
Target is a 300 meter International Target Reduced to 100 Yards. A-33

Wish I could do this all the time.

</div></div>

Great shooting there Shooter65.

 

[ryanmc]

Re: 100yard group?

Orange dot 0.75" dia, 1" squares for reference.

Best group so far, 5 shots, 100yds prone in field with bipod, calm day, Wolf MT, dime covers all 5

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...all day long... if...</div></div>

 

[cab0154]

Re: 100yard group?

my cz 452 with some lapua midas. 10-15 mph gusts. i was shooting around the gusts. i was very surprised it managed to average sub MOA.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: 100yard group?

^^^^good depiction on how one measures / publicises groups.

center to center or outer edge to outer edge?

all of these above covers an area larger than 1" at 100yards, but the center to center measurement brings it under 1".

i think this is where alot of folks get confused.

it's interesting that most will take a higher point value if a line is broken in competition on a best edge, but then not use the same standard when measuring groups.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

Re: 100yard group?

+1 TP

IMHO, Correct group measurement is outside edge of two widest shots minus bullet diameter and this is exactly the way CAB did it.

In my previous post here, I posted average group sizes over the course of 9 months shooting. This includes across all weather conditions as well.

I have shot some 5 shot groups at 100 that are just under. 5 MOA, but that is atypical and well below my average after nearly 5000 22 lr rounds fired in 2011.

I read a number of the articles suggested in this thread. I tend to agree with the 7 shot group ideology. I would take it one step further and suggest that 5 - 7 shots groups = 35 shots total fired during a single range session. Averaging those 5-7 shots groups would be an excellent representation of the shooter/rifle/ ammo capability under the conditions encountered during that session.

Yea, I know, I tend go off the deep end at times.

I for one, have enjoyed this thread and all the input.

AR

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: 100yard group?

it's definately a culture / generation change kinda thing, like "fraction of an inch adjustments" going to MOA, then MIL, the older ways were outer edge to outer edge when talking groups.

i'm sure there are a more than a few ol' bucks out there that'll argue the point.

 

[towert7]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aquatic_Robotic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I for one, have enjoyed this thread and all the input.

</div></div>

Me too. I have learned a lot. I'm eager to go out to the range again and see how I compare to last time.

 

[nesikabay]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My CZ452 ZKM plunks 5 shots into .75-1.0 inch all day long if conditions are right. That is with standard velocity ammo, off a good bench rest, and with my Nikon Monarch set at 7X (as high as it goes). The high-velocity stuff I shoot- Winchester Power Points and CCI Velocitors- go into an inch and a quarter or less most of the time (occasional flyers can open groups a half inch, but they are rare). The absolute worst group I've ever gotten was about two and three quarter inches, and that was with ammo where each round sounded completely different from the last. My ZKM is the least ammunition-sensitive rimfire I've ever shot.

I bought my 452 back in 2002, when I was peddling guns for a living. Every customer who bought one back then was blown away by the accuracy. I don't have any personal experience with how the newer ones shoot, but it seems like maybe their barrel tolerances aren't as precise as they once were, since most folks report groups about twice what mine delivers. Most also seem to suffer from dependence on premium ammo.

One thing that may very well help shrink groups (aside from copious practice) is to fire lap the barrel. Many- if not most- rimfires benefit from fire lapping. It tends to make them less ammo-sensitive and I've seen some remarkable reductions in group size...like over 50% smaller on one Henry I did for a friend! Also check your muzzle crown. A nearly microscopic burr or notch there can turn a great rimfire into a scattergun.
</div></div>

Just when you think you have heard it all. Fire lap your rimfire barrel lol. It will make it shoot better.

 

[noahmercy]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

One thing that may very well help shrink groups (aside from copious practice) is to fire lap the barrel. Many- if not most- rimfires benefit from fire lapping. It tends to make them less ammo-sensitive and I've seen some remarkable reductions in group size...like over 50% smaller on one Henry I did for a friend! Also check your muzzle crown. A nearly microscopic burr or notch there can turn a great rimfire into a scattergun.
</div></div>

Just when you think you have heard it all. Fire lap your rimfire barrel lol. It will make it shoot better. </div></div>

Have you tried it? Many mass-produced rimfires have more generous tolerances than custom or high-end ones (obvious, right?). I've seen quite a few that had tight spots under the threads, and fire lapping took out the restriction. A bullet that gets sized down and then has to try to re-obturate to fit the bore and engage the rifling is not going to be as accurate as one that leaves the chamber and travels down a bore with parallel sides (or even slightly constricting towards the muzzle).

I've also seen some pretty rough leades. Same thing...a bullet torn up as it engages the rifling is not likely to shoot as accurately as a bullet that has a smooth transition from chamber to rifling. Fire lapping removes burrs and high spots on the leades creating that smooth transition.

Fire lapping is not likely to help an Anshutz or 40X, but I've seen improvements in several inexpensive mass-produced rimfires.

David Tubb offers rimfire lapping kits, so feel free to LOL at him, too.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: 100yard group?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noah Mercy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My CZ452 ZKM plunks 5 shots into .75-1.0 inch all day long if conditions are right.

I bought my 452 back in 2002, when I was peddling guns for a living. Every customer who bought one back then was blown away by the accuracy. I don't have any personal experience with how the newer ones shoot, but it seems like maybe their barrel tolerances aren't as precise as they once were, since most folks report groups about twice what mine delivers. Most also seem to suffer from dependence on premium ammo.

</div></div>

about 10,000 hours of research and 7 CZ rimfires (most of them newer than 2002) lead me to believe otherwise. All of my newer CZs will shoot better than 1.5" groups almost every time (wind conditions permitting). .75" groups at 100 yards happens almost every trip to the range........along with some 1" and 1.25" groups. I have followed CZs religiously on rimfirecentral.com for years now and have come across nothing that suggests older CZs are more accurate than a new CZ452. <span style="text-decoration: underline">If you truly have information that can prove this i would be delighted to get a link to it</span>. The only distinction that seems to ever be made between older and newer CZs is in regards to the older BRNO models, which are also not known for consistently outshooting a new CZ452.