12 dead at Washington Navy Yard

[MilDot1960]

John,
I can't debate about a tragedy like that, nor deeply entering in politics_
_ said that,in my opinion, the fact that I'm wearing an army/navy/a.f./uniform should legit me to carry firearms, everywhere,everytime_
(otherwise I would volunteer for the boy-scouts or the salvation army)_
If my country don't allow that, but my country is allowed to ask me to sacrifice and die at his will, wearing the same uniforms of above, it's my country that don't trust on me_
my statement above could be wrong, but I'm stupid serious about that, until here, if not all for respect to the involved victims, _

(If I would allowed to answer you less seriously, but for sure without any joy, I must admit that only in A.C.M.E. I can trust, "here") _
Mario_

Yes Mate, I understand My only thought is that all you Guys should be Armed, Your in a Military Complex and Fire Arms are Part of your Kit, I know If I had been that Nut and 2 dozen people had turned around and pointed 24 9mm/45s at me I would have needed a change of cloths, I would think that would deter anyone or atleased make them think twice, I know I would, But there again I like people and I have always tried to do the right thing no matter the cost,

God Bless America,

John

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

The lack of weapons on a military base is unreal. Private security on bases is stupid. The lack of weapons training for military personal is even worse. It amazing how all the old school military ways have been swept away. Best part is anybody in the military that stands up to hold on to proven methods is committing political suicide. I grew up in a town where every body carried a gun either on them or a long gun in the truck . Most had both . Local crime was 0. Moved to the city where only crooks carry illegal guns and there was a crime every 30 seconds. WTF moved back to a place where everybody carrys and crime is almost non existent. IF a dumb country boy like me can figure it out you can't ever convince me this shit is not being done on purpose. Used to be when the police were in over their heads they called the Military now we have scumbags killing on base and they have to call the police because their private security is a joke. In the Bible it is written "In the end of days wrong will be right and right will be wrong". Well you don't have to slap me in the head too many times to know what time it is. My question is how much more will it take before the rest of the blind see !

 

[armorpl8chikn]

The whole thing is sad and a tragedy he should have never been able to buy a gun with 2 previous incidents. The problem is the 2 previous incidents never stuck. Having said that Zimmerman had 2 previous incidents as well he assaulted a police officer (ATF). And he put his hands on his ex girlfriend. Both incidents that would have prevented him from having a gun as well. But those incidents never stuck ether. One is now a hero and one a low life murderer! So the shady past of one is easily overlooked while the others is now from and center. I just find it interesting that's all.

On another note

Why trained milltitary can't carry is beyond me

Ahh so you in fact have no shame and as some have suspected, merely a troll. Thank the stars I am no mod.

 

[High Binder]

"Shotgun Joe" Biden will probabaly not have any words of 'wisdom' for us this time...

 

[zmann]

Good Ol' Jim is dead set on exposing this false flag...saying he can prove the article came out the night before. *shrug

Jimstonefreelance.com - The new root of truth.

 

[eli polite]

I'm a troll why ? because I don't agree about 1 person?

I am hugely pro 2a my entry family all 5 of us! From my self to my 9 YO son each have there own long rifle, AR, and hand gun . We have family range time at least twice a month and some of the best times I have ever had with my family are at the range. I support the NRA, local ranges, and events. I have petitioned the senators of my state to loosen restriction for RESPONSABLE gun owner and stiffen laws for those who break the law. So I'm a troll because I'm tired of loose cannon low life's endangering my right and my family's rights to enjoy one of our favorite pass times and rights as Americans. That makes me a troll?

For me this has more to do with "behavior" and "ACOUNTABILTY" for that behavior. Suicide shooters have no character, honor, or accountability to there actions. there cowards. This has happened twice now on military bases. WHY! are our armed forces NOT ARMED!!! Who's accountable for that! WTF is going on here ! If you lost some one in this incident you should be seriously questioning the leadership about why they were not able to defend them selves. How can Aaron Alexis have 2 separate incidents involving discharging a fire arm and not actually have it on his record stopping him from purchasing a fire arm "LEGALY" in the future? OH but wait if we go by the same mentality surrounding Zimmerman's past He wasn't convicted there fore it never happened rite! So I guess I'm a troll because I have ZERO tolerance for men who put there hands on a woman and assault police officers. I guess because I don't support that type of behavior I'm a troll and I don't care about my rights.

Its because I care about my rights that I don't care for people like Aaron Alexis, John Allen Muhammad, Adam Lanza, Obama, Biden, and thousands of others that threaten this country by there actions and yes Zimmerman is on that list (no where near the top of it). We should be represented by nothing less than the most honorable men and women. I want to see honor, accountability, trustworthiness and decency brought back. Because I believe that I'm a troll?

Gun safety should be thought in school and military personnel and citizens for that matter should be able to carry both openly and canceled to prevent horrible tragedy's like this. Every able body American should have to serve 2 years in the armed forces and be able take the issued weapon home at the end of there service. BUT! I'm a troll because I believe if you assault an officer you loose that right. If you put your hands on a woman you loose that right. I guess I'm a troll than!

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Eli Polite,
You use every chance to attack Zimmerman for what ever reason and feel it is your duty to beat him down at every turn . THAT is what makes you a TROLL . Now please go back under your bridge and wait for the goats.

 

[Win.308]

Seems to me that you don't believe in innocent until proven guilty, he was let off on all accounts correct and apparently him being acquitted by a jury of his peers doesn't make him innocent either right. How about both parties involved in this past are ignored and the incident at hand they were involved in be looked at. One went into a military installation and killed 12 people. The other was having his head smashed on concrete and shot the aggressor in self defense. I guess he should have just laid there and been the one killed then the story would not have made headline news.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[ArcticLight]

Zimmerman: There was an identical case going on at the exact time, racial roles reversed, same outcome.


As for the shooting, I'm getting daily updates on it, 12 innocent people lost their lives. Four of them were people I've worked with and WOULD be working with in my new role.

Lets have some respect for the dead.

 

[ArcticLight]

The lack of weapons on a military base is unreal. Private security on bases is stupid. The lack of weapons training for military personal is even worse. It amazing how all the old school military ways have been swept away. Best part is anybody in the military that stands up to hold on to proven methods is committing political suicide. I grew up in a town where every body carried a gun either on them or a long gun in the truck . Most had both . Local crime was 0. Moved to the city where only crooks carry illegal guns and there was a crime every 30 seconds. WTF moved back to a place where everybody carrys and crime is almost non existent. IF a dumb country boy like me can figure it out you can't ever convince me this shit is not being done on purpose. Used to be when the police were in over their heads they called the Military now we have scumbags killing on base and they have to call the police because their private security is a joke. In the Bible it is written "In the end of days wrong will be right and right will be wrong". Well you don't have to slap me in the head too many times to know what time it is. My question is how much more will it take before the rest of the blind see !

Note: Within two minutes officers were on scene, within 7 minutes there were 15+ cops with AR15's and they refused to wait for SWAT.
They went charging in to overpower suspect, first two guys got taken down, the remainder took down suspect.

There was no lack of weapons, and that the PD did this is a good thing as they stay trained on CQB, very few trained people on a navy base except for anti-T for ships but that training is akin to police reserve officers.

I don't think this one could have been handled any better EXCEPT TO SAY that the clearance and CAC issuance should have been examined closer. They hand out clearances now like candy instead of making everyone get an SSBI.

 

[MilDot1960]

I dont know why this has taken this turn, But We should not Muddy the waters, If we cant stand together on this what will we do if things go South in a Big Way.

God Bless America.

John

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Scotttu,
You are right when seconds count the police are minutes away. I don't know how many times you have been down range and unarmed. I for one hope you or anyone else never gets to feel that horror. The world is a terrible place. I have two words for all "be prepared" Every member of the Military should be armed at all times as should ever member of law enforcement. That being said why should the be the only ones. An armed populace is a polite populace. I love to here the response times to violent crimes . Here is one fact for you Most fights last less than 60 seconds with all resulting in to damage to 1 or more partys 90 present of the time its the victim not the aggressor . Tell the victims or their familys the cops got there fast enough. Furthermore many members of the Military has lost life or limb because their MOS did not require weapons training or their training was less than a day maybe two.When the shit hits the fan every member of the ARMED FORCES should be capable in defending this country and EACH OTHER. Remember this was a Military base . Full of people sworn to defend this country from all enemys foreign and domestic or has that been done away with too. Next thing you know we will have Russian troop on American soil to assist FEMA and you can bet they will be armed and have mastered the task of combat!!!

 

[ArcticLight]

Scotttu,
You are right when seconds count the police are minutes away. I don't know how many times you have been down range and unarmed.

I am never unarmed. My mind is my weapon. Firearms are a tool, as are my hands, a broom, a stick. I teach Shotokan Karate and that's lesson #1. Rely on a tool and it will fail you.

Rely on yourself.

I've read stats on both sides of the house, I do believe in security, I believe in the 2nd Amendment. I also k now that 99% of the population is not prepared to deal with it.

However, the sheep in America continue to amaze me. There should be some qualification required after seeing 4 AD's here...Not everyone is cut out for this...
After watching the population vote in the county prosecutor, FOR THE THIRD TIME - he's on a personal vendetta to close down our range because 4 prosections all failed....and they JUST re-elected him.

The population is not worthy of a right they refuse to support. They got the gov they deserved and voted for. We, unfortunately, have to live with teh aftermath and provide security for the sheep. We, are the wolves.

I'm getting daily updates from the supervisor there.

Navy Yard Shooting Victims Remembered

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

I saw ninja catch a load of a 12ga, once. He did not get up but he thought he would. I guess the shooter had a better mind.

 

[wilecoyote]

"Spinach don't work well against 000bucks"
(Popeye)

 

[Tripwire]

They have succeeded....the context of the Second Amendment is now soley about personal defense....even here.

My head hangs in shame........

 

[MarinePMI]

SMH...the Navy's answer is to ensure the background checks are more detailed.

The Marine Corps answer? Commandant just said that every Marine on guard/duty will now have live ammo. Problem solved.

'nuff said.

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

"Will now have live ammo" What a great idea!! What will they think of next

 

[pmclaine]

I hope it means more than the 5 rounds I was allowed while standing back gate at Camp Geiger.

 

[MarinePMI]

"Will now have live ammo" What a great idea!! What will they think of next

Yeah, ya think?

I hope it means more than the 5 rounds I was allowed while standing back gate at Camp Geiger.

I wouldn't count on it, but then again, for some nut jobs, the deterrent of 5 rds is probably enough to discourage any ideas of a soft target.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Good on the cops that arrived first and not waiting, just getting into the sht and taking this guy out, same with that cop with the nutcase shooting the Sikhs up in Wisconsin area, normally they wait for the jack booted power rangers to show up while the killing go's on. Being an old Sergeant and knowing how half the privates act on the range under close supervision, I think it should be left up to the unit level command on who gets to carry and who doesn't, I would never let an officer carry, E-5 or Corporal and above, NCO's only in my opinion. Anyone who ever had to do CQ on payday night would take pause before giving everyone loaded guns, it would make for some good stories but there would be a lot more than 14 or 28 dead per year, not from ill will or violence toward one another just from the stupid sht privates do, they do some inexplicable sht, hold my beer and watch this, I bet I can shoot this empty JD bottle off your head etc etc. Be on guard and protect your rights, all your rights, anything less than whats prescribed in our founding documents leads to serfdom and worse. Most here have taken the oath, it doesn't end when you ets or retire in my opinion. Trust no one.

 

[pmclaine]

Yeah, ya think?



I wouldn't count on it, but then again, for some nut jobs, the deterrent of 5 rds is probably enough to discourage any ideas of a soft target.

Ill take 5 over none any day.

 

[pmclaine]

Good on the cops that arrived first and not waiting, just getting into the sht and taking this guy out, same with that cop with the nutcase shooting the Sikhs up in Wisconsin area, normally they wait for the jack booted power rangers to show up while the killing go's on. Being an old Sergeant and knowing how half the privates act on the range under close supervision, I think it should be left up to the unit level command on who gets to carry and who doesn't, I would never let an officer carry, E-5 or Corporal and above, NCO's only in my opinion. Anyone who ever had to do CQ on payday night would take pause before giving everyone loaded guns, it would make for some good stories but there would be a lot more than 14 or 28 dead per year, not from ill will or violence toward one another just from the stupid sht privates do, they do some inexplicable sht, hold my beer and watch this, I bet I can shoot this empty JD bottle off your head etc etc. Be on guard and protect your rights, all your rights, anything less than whats prescribed in our founding documents leads to serfdom and worse. Most here have taken the oath, it doesn't end when you ets or retire in my opinion. Trust no one.

Well there is the report that the Capital Police Special Tactics guys arrived on scene with the first rifles and were asked to assist by the Metro Police. They called the Capital to tell their supervisors they were going in and they were told to stand down. They were the first long arm equipped team on scene. They were ready to go, well trained, and they were told to depart the scene and return to the Capital. This was reported for a short time after the shooting, in the British press mostly, than it went away. Form the reports the police officers were not too happy about being told they could not engage.

If true what the heck is wrong with the people that are supposed to have your back?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/24153252

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rd-capitol-police-swat-team-recalled/2834079/

 

[ArcticLight]

Well there is the report that the Capital Police Special Tactics guys arrived on scene with the first rifles and were asked to assist by the Metro Police. They called the Capital to tell their supervisors they were going in and they were told to stand down. They were the first long arm equipped team on scene. They were ready to go, well trained, and they were told to depart the scene and return to the Capital. This was reported for a short time after the shooting, in the British press mostly, than it went away. Form the reports the police officers were not too happy about being told they could not engage.

If true what the heck is wrong with the people that are supposed to have your back?

BBC News - Navy Yard: Swat team 'stood down' at mass shooting scene

Report: Capitol Police thwarted from aiding at Navy Yard

That's not what happened, 7 guys went in without approval, from 3 different agencies. First two guys caught buckshot, guys 3-7 put bad guy down.

Besides, UK news? - Puh.........anti-gun and somewhat anti-USA.

 

[pmclaine]

That's not what happened, 7 guys went in without approval, from 3 different agencies. First two guys caught buckshot, guys 3-7 put bad guy down.

Besides, UK news? - Puh.........anti-gun and somewhat anti-USA.

I'd imagine people on here would have better info and that is good to know.

The UK news may be anti gun and anti USA but ours is pro gun, pro Republic?

 

[MilDot1960]

That's not what happened, 7 guys went in without approval, from 3 different agencies. First two guys caught buckshot, guys 3-7 put bad guy down.

Besides, UK news? - Puh.........anti-gun and somewhat anti-USA.

The Press in the UK might be Anti Gun, but Not one of them Have ever use one because of the Lie's they are told,

But most of all the UK IS NOT Anti USA and the Press are not also Because the USA Makes Good News, Like all Press they are Bottom Feeders and they will twist and EDIT any Story to Make it suit their Needs,
and it Does'nt matter if the US is Pro RePublic or Not,.

It has no meaning to the General Pulic of the UK if the US was being run by the Gay Nazi Party, So lets not bring Politics in to this thread, Because 99% of the UK dont even understand how US Politics works


john

 

[ArcticLight]

Eli Polite,
You use every chance to attack Zimmerman for what ever reason and feel it is your duty to beat him down at every turn . THAT is what makes you a TROLL . Now please go back under your bridge and wait for the goats.

Debated this with a guy yesterday. Had martin not been out buying the chemicals for his drugs (Codine drink), had he been put in jail for the 11 burglaries from when his backpack at schol was confiscated...had all of that happened this incident never would have happened.

Trevon should have been in jail except for some feel good race law that was trying to lower statistics on colored people being arrested at school. I have ZERO issue about race, NONE, but when we make these feel good laws just for the numbers and a KNOWN criminal is set free and then later killed I ask who is at fault?

The law. But this thread is not about that incident, or the other one where a black man shot an unarmed white man in the same week and was ALSO acquited.


That said, someone in NAVSEA set up an online memorial, still working on it but it was a nice gesture.

I went back through the list of names, I knew four of the victims:

Naval Sea Systems Command Victims of Sept. 16, 2013 Online Memorial from Never-Gone.com

Michael Arnold
Martin Bodrog
Arthur Daniels
Sylvia Frasier
Kathleen Gaarde
John Johnson
Mary Knight
Frank Kohler
Vishnu Pandit
Kenneth Proctor
Gerald Read
Richard Ridgell

They were loved by many and will be dearly missed by all friends, family and co-workers