185 Juggs. Where to start.

[JRM]

I was fortunate enough to come across some Berger Juggernauts at a shop I frequent and I'd like to give these a swing. These will be leaving a 20" 1:10 AIAX.
Im currently running 44grs of Varget, Win Brass, CCI Mag, all under a 175 SMK.
I have available Lapua and Winchester brass, FGMM and CCI Mag primers, IMR 4166, Varget, and 4064 (although great I prefer to stay away from in rifles I shoot year round). I don't have a Berger manual as I've never shot them.

 

[JoeBUtah]

I use 40.5 gr of IMR 4064 in my MilSpec 5R so a little longer barrel with 1:11.25 twist. Makes me look like I actually know how to shoot. Berger lists:

H4895; 36.5-40.5
IMR 4064; 37-41
Accurate 2460; 37-41.3
Ramshot TAC; 37-41.3
IMR 4895: 37.5-41.5
Varget; 37.5-41.6

My rifle has a long throat; too long to crowd the lands and Juggernanaughts differ from VLDs in that respect. I just settled for a consistant base to ogive length and they do the rest. Of course, YMMV....

eta: My guess is you'll like these bullets; a Berger manual is a good one to have on hand...

 

[JRM]

Thanks Joe. That's what I was looking for.
Do jugs have a tendency to favor a jump or jammed? I'll be doing a proper OCW with these bullets.
also, any experience with 4166?

 

[JoeBUtah]

Juggernaughts are not sensitive to the amount of jump; that's how they differ from other Bergers (VLDs) that are sensitive. As mentioned, the throat in that rifle is so long, if I try to chase the lands, I don't have enough bullet in the brass for enough neck tension. The Berger manual states a COAL of 2.810. I don't know off hand what my COAL is; I probably started out with that as a guide and then figured out a nice even number for cartridge base to bullet ogive. I use COAL for hand guns, but rarely for rifles; I prefer ogive length, but that's just a Joe thing. You could try just loading them to mag length minus and see how they do.

I've never used IMR 4166 in any load. Varget was my go-to for 175 SMKs. H4895 for 168 SMKs. I was at the range a couple of years ago and a guy was just killing it with 4064 and Juggernaughts. I haven't shot a 175 smk since then, and use the 168s just for foulers.

 

[JRM]

I have at least 700 175smk so I'm not hurting for a varget load. I will swing with the 4064 and juggernauts. It has served me well with the 168 SMK.
I will typically chase seating depth after I achieve a sufficient load through an OCW test. I don't want to like them too much since they are considerably more than the sierra counterparts. Thank you for taking the time.

 

[390fe]

I'm currently loading Juggs over maximum - when compared to the above listed data - with a charge of IMR 4064 , and getting 1/2 moa and better. Velocity is about 2,600 fps from a 24 inch barrel at my density altitude, base to ogive is 2.225".

They're pretty impervious to being jumped, I've loaded them 2.19 to 2.245 with no bad results, Federal loads them in their Premium Gold Medal Match to 2.8" overall length, and ABM loads them to both 2.8" and 2.95" overall length.

For reference, 2.15" base to ogive equals 2.8" overall length with a Berger Juggernaut.

 

[mason.ostrom]

JRM, Not trying to hijack the thread, if you want me to move this I will. Does anyone have any load data for using the 185 Juggernauts out of a gas gun? Ive been shooting 175gr SMKs out of my LR308 but i have a bunch of 185 Juggs left over from when I used them for FTR before moving to heavier bullets. Id like to use the 185 juggs as a match bullet in my LR308.

 

[Clearlight]

My load was 42.5 of AR 2208 ( Varget in US) , Lap Palma brass , CCI BR4 primer .
2620 fps out of 24 inch barrel . Safe in my rifle but work up as always . Seated them
about 0.020 off lands , but they are not too picky . I preferred this load over anything
else in that rifle . Slow but easily shoots inside anything else lighter in the wind .
This load had a sub 10 fps ES , the slightly loopier trajectory is not an issue for me
compared to lighter faster bullets .

 

[JRM]

No worries mason.
I was able to get a few rounds downrange. 41.2 imr 4064 node is looking pretty good. Gonna wiggle around a bit but velocities are sub 2500 out of my 20". I haven't put this into a calculator to see drop chart yet. But looks to be promise with some more tedious workup.

 

[mason.ostrom]

No worries mason.
I was able to get a few rounds downrange. 41.2 imr 4064 node is looking pretty good. Gonna wiggle around a bit but velocities are sub 2500 out of my 20". I haven't put this into a calculator to see drop chart yet. But looks to be promise with some more tedious workup.

That was out of your AIAX? Thats not bad velocity out of such a short barrel. If you made the transition to palma brass you'd almost certainly be able to beef that up a little bit.

 

[JRM]

That was out of your AIAX? Thats not bad velocity out of such a short barrel. If you made the transition to palma brass you'd almost certainly be able to beef that up a little bit.

That's correct. At this point as much as I enjoy loading I am just tired of pissing with different variables. I'm approaching 300 rounds through the rifle and probably half are different powders, different depths, primers, brass etc. The jug load so far is 41.2 IMR 4064, 210M, Lapua Brass, .002 neck tension, 2.258 to Ogive.
Im gonna load up a dozen and see how it does this weekend. Surprisingly 4064 is in short supply locally so this may go to the back burner if nothing locally rears its head.

 

[mason.ostrom]

Ill tell you that in my FTR rifle, when i used the 185 bergers, I was running 44gr Varget. The chamber is a long (0.177) throat, so you may not be able to get as much in. When i switched to palma brass I was able to use 44.9gr Varget and get another 100 FPS velocity without any high pressure signs.