1st 600yd Target - What’s my Error(s)

[MaverickNH]

My first time shooting past 300yd, at our club’s annual “Shoot what you Brung" Prone Day. I was shooting a Rem700P 308WIN 24in barrel, with SWA 175 SMK and Bushnell 6-24x5- FFP scope, on 20x (glass gets hazy past 20x). The stock is OEM with an adjustable cheek riser added. Sunny, low 90s, very little breeze.

At 200yd, I shot 200-12x, and we moved back to the 600yd line. More folks needed the coaches to get on paper, so I had less technique coaching, this being a newbie day. But I thought I’d ask if the pattern suggests any systematic error. If this were pistol, I’d have said it was my grip and trigger squeeze.

I’ll get back for some practice and matches me surely pick up some coaxing and tips from my club members.

[Edited to fix several rifle/ammo description errors ]

 

[ma smith]

Interesting post, OP. What is the scale of the Target?

 

[jolofree]

Hm ya, original Rem factory barrel? My .223 700P won't stabilize anything heavier than 69gr past 50yds.
Nice target - 24 holes, sighters ?

 

[RGStory]

Interesting post, OP. What is the scale of the Target?

OP's picture states NRA MR-1. If so, please find attached.

 

[Newbie2020]

Good cheek weld without leaning the rifle over to the right with a “heavy head”?

Pulling straight backward with the graspers of the strong side hand?

vertical ONLY manipulation of the buttstock using the support hand?

Gradual backward trigger press?

Do the cross hairs settle back on the target after recoil or is the rifle bouncing left or right during recoil?

 

[MaverickNH]

Hm ya, original Rem factory barrel? My .223 700P won't stabilize anything heavier than 69gr past 50yds.
Nice target - 24 holes, sighters ?

I left that 308Win part out - doh! And 175gn SMK - doh, doh!

Yes, four sighters as I came down from 60 1/4 MOA clicks to 42 to hit.

That target schema is what we were using - 6 inch X.

 

[jolofree]

.308Win shooting a "SWA 77gr SMK" ?
My Rem .308 700P has a 24" barrel.
Yours is 26", new model ?

 

[MaverickNH]

Good cheek weld without leaning the rifle over to the right with a “heavy head”?

Pulling straight backward with the graspers of the strong side hand?

vertical ONLY manipulation of the buttstock using the support hand?

Gradual backward trigger press?

Do the cross hairs settle back on the target after recoil or is the rifle bouncing left or right during recoil?

All, not consistent for sure. My 1st at 600yd and 1st with serious mirage. While shooting over grass, the target sometimes almost faded away. With old eyes (63, -7 diopter lenses, astigmatism and presbyopia too) I wasn’t sure if it was me or the mirage - probably some of both.

I might be hooked...

 

[MaverickNH]

.308Win shooting a "SWA 77gr SMK" ?
My Rem .308 700P has a 24" barrel.
Yours is 26", new model ?

I’ll bet it’s a 24in - do those measure from the rear of the chamber (bolt face) or elsewhere, to the crown?

 

[smoothy8500]

very little breeze.

I wasn’t sure if it was me or the mirage

Pretty respectable for your first foray into F-class. The mirage may have caused the 1 MOA vertical dispersion of shots due to the target appearing to float around. Dropping magnification down to 16X helps a little. I'm assuming you didn't do any wind calls or windage adjustments for that Left-to-Right breeze? You had wind moving your rounds up to 2 MOA Right.

Keep it up and take notes of the conditions for each shot. Watch the mirage, it will indicate changes in wind speed and direction that are closer to the target vs what you notice at the firing line.

 

[theLBC]

77gr .308?

 

[sinister]

Good performance. Center of the group generally on the water-line, maybe a minute-and-a-half to the right. Call it a half-minute for rifling drift, and a half- to a minute right.

Did you dial or hold any correction during the match?

When shooting with a coach, you are responsible for holding for elevation, and he is supposed to be responsible for windage errors (since he's supposed to be on a higher magnification spotting scope and is supposed to be the better wind reader).

 

[jolofree]

77gr .308?

Accelerator from back in the day = 10 ^ @ 600

 

[b6graham]

you suck at calling wind?

load doesnt look awful. just need more practice

 

[308pirate]

Good performance. Center of the group generally on the water-line, maybe a minute-and-a-half to the right. Call it a half-minute for rifling drift, and a half- to a minute right.

That is pretty good elevation hold for first time at 600

I bet most of his right drift is wind plus some hold error. Noobs have no idea about how to use mirage to read the wind.

 

[308pirate]

you suck at calling wind?

I bet you did too when you started

 

[308pirate]

My first time shooting past 300yd, at our club’s annual “Shoot what you Brung" Prone Day. I was shooting a Rem700P 308WIN 24in barrel, with SWA 175 SMK and Bushnell 6-24x5- FFP scope, on 20x (glass gets hazy past 20x). The stock is OEM with an adjustable cheek riser added. Sunny, low 90s, very little breeze.

At 200yd, I shot 200-12x, and we moved back to the 600yd line. More folks needed the coaches to get on paper, so I had less technique coaching, this being a newbie day. But I thought I’d ask if the pattern suggests any systematic error. If this were pistol, I’d have said it was my grip and trigger squeeze.

I’ll get back for some practice and matches me surely pick up some coaxing and tips from my club members.

[Edited to fix several rifle/ammo description errors ]


View attachment 7641585

600 yards will magnify everything. Without being there, just looking at that target, I'd say your prone position needs some relaxation, your ammo might benefit from some tweaking to shrink ES and SD, and you need more seat time and research into how to use mirage to read the wind. Just the opinion of a former NRA Highpower Rifle Master.

In case you're wondering, that is not an NRA F class target. That is the target used by NRA competitors using a sling and shooting coat to support the rifle, so it's very generous. F class competitors (bipods/front rests) use a similar target with a 6 MOA aiming black but all scoring rings are half the size.

Overall, B+ for a first effort.

 

[smoothy8500]

...your ammo might benefit from some tweaking to shrink ES and SD

Nice thing about the Shotmarker or Solo system is the velocity and SD stats are given. Seems his SouthWest AMMO had an SD of 12.7, so that’s pretty decent. The vertical dispersion was probably due to skills and fundamentals issue.

 

[308pirate]

Nice thing about the Shotmarker or Solo system is the velocity and SD stats are given. Seems his SouthWest AMMO had an SD of 12.7, so that’s pretty decent. The vertical dispersion was probably due to skills and fundamentals issue.

Doh....forgot about that. Those things weren't around in my day so I forget how useful they are.

 

[smoothy8500]

I hear you....And let's not forget about it eliminating poor pit service.

 

[308pirate]

And let's not forget about it eliminating poor pit service.

Hell, eliminating ALL pit service.

A chore I did my best to perform well while absolutely hating every second of it.

 

[MaverickNH]

Thanks for the advice, all. I’ll admit I didn’t even look at the flags for wind-calling - I was cooking in the sun

I was wondering why some of the coaches were using the ShotMarker app on a tablet AND a spotting scope - now I have a clue!

It turns out my left sock full of parking lot gravel wasn’t the best rear bag - lots of fiddling. Guess I’ll buy a good one now.

As my SWA ammo supply dwindles, I’ll look to start handloading - I collected tools, powder, brass, bullets and primers but never had the time. Now, it’s load or pay crazy $$$ for good ammo.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I loved doing pit service. It was my main time for talking and learning from the other competitors.

Offhand I'd say the wind and maybe some problems with keeping the crosshairs level were accountable for the rightward stringing, since the impact drops as it moves away from the center. Accept that although it may be relatively calmer where you're shooting from, there could be crosswidns along the trajectory. This is where reading mirage at variable distances can be especially helpful. Assuming you are right handed, I'm thinking the rightward dispersion is less related to trigger manipulation. If left handed, then more. Cheek pressure does the same.

I am also assuming a scope adjustment upward just prior to the rounds hitting where the yellow ring is. Looks like you stopped and cleaned up your act right about then.

Those way up there are probably related to uneven shoulder pressure. As the rifle recoils, it tends to shift aim upward. A consistent hold and shoulder pressure will improve this.

Get a genuine rear bag. I fill mine with airsoft beads; those beads are expensive though.

When you do get into handloading, avoid blaming your dispersion on the ammo, rushing out to get the newest and best handloading bells and whistles. K.I.S.S. Just concentrate on good load development and maintain consistency in your handloading steps and shooting technique with basic implements; handloading speed and effort need to be consistent. If it takes a lot of effort, there's probably a mistake being made.

As a former rifle instructor, I can certify to you that when errors involve machines and people, it's really far more likely to originate with the humans. Custom adjustable dies work great, but you can get the same results by taking your time adjusting basic dies. Always lube those cases, and clean the dies afterward.

My .308 competition load is commercial brass (Starline usually) F/L resized (even when Brand New), 175 SMK loaded to 2.815" COAL (Max Mag Length), CCI BR-2 Primer, and 42.2gr of IMR-4064. It's been around this site for well over a decade, and seems to be working in a lot of 308's, including semi's.

As your handloading experience grows, get a Little Crow Gun Works Case Trimmer II with the proper inserts by case design, and an RCBS Case Prep Center. For speed and accuracy charging the cases, I use an RCBS Chargemaster Lite.

Greg

 

[HogsLife]

My first time shooting past 300yd, at our club’s annual “Shoot what you Brung" Prone Day. I was shooting a Rem700P 308WIN 24in barrel, with SWA 175 SMK and Bushnell 6-24x5- FFP scope, on 20x (glass gets hazy past 20x). The stock is OEM with an adjustable cheek riser added. Sunny, low 90s, very little breeze.

At 200yd, I shot 200-12x, and we moved back to the 600yd line. More folks needed the coaches to get on paper, so I had less technique coaching, this being a newbie day. But I thought I’d ask if the pattern suggests any systematic error. If this were pistol, I’d have said it was my grip and trigger squeeze.

I’ll get back for some practice and matches me surely pick up some coaxing and tips from my club members.

[Edited to fix several rifle/ammo description errors ]


View attachment 7641585

I’d venture to say you’re either light on the wind call or incorrect Narural Point of Aim. and I’d Lean towards the latter. Make sure body position is square to target and youre straight behind the rifle. NPA is a big deal. Need to make sure that when you are completely relaxed, the crosshairs are where they need to be. Don’t muscle rifle into position. If you do, the rifle will return to where it “naturally” rests when you’re completely relaxed (as yo it should be when your squeezing that trigger) and after the shot.

You need to adjust body position until where that rifle naturally rests in relation to the target is where you want it to go

I’ll typically get behind the rifle; get set; close eyes, take a deep breath and let it out. Without changing anything, open your eyes and see where your cross hairs are aligned. If not right, adjust body and repeat the process until it’s right.

Not bad at all tho. Grouping is good. Means your being consistent in whatever you’re doing wrong. Easy to fix that.