1st time load developing blitz

[earthquake]

So I've amassed enough brass after firing all my factory ammo. I just bought a bunch of bullets and am buying powder/primers. I'm heading back east for Turkey day and want to attempt to roll my own for the first time (my pops has reloading equip...I don't)

Anyway, I need to reload ~500 rounds of .308 ammo, but am not sure which powder to go with. This is probably a one time deal, so should I just pick one powder for this, or would it behoove me to pick up two or three different kinds?

.308 chambered SS, 5R Bartlein, .299 bore finished at 20"
1:11.25 twist
175 SMK
Win brass

I was getting about 2,550 fps from Southwest's match ammo in this gun, and about the same from Black Hills. I'm hoping to find an accurate enough load, with a bit more (100 fps?) MV. The range reports I've read on this site seem to indicated that Al2000MR could do this for me.

After doing a LOT of reading on here, I think I was going to grab about 3-4 lbs of Alliant 2000MR. OR, should I do 2lbs of the Alliant and then say, a pound of Varget and a pound of 4895 or....?

In a nutshell, should I just pick one and go, or try a couple different for this one-time reloading blitz?

Also, finally, I'll be shooting this load development test back in OH (~700' ASL), but live/shoot in CO between 5,000' - 9,000' ASL. Does that make a difference when looking at 100 yd. groups?

Sorry for the long thread, but I'm new to reloading and wanted to try it myself first before paying someone else to do it for me, or diving into it whole-hog. Thanks!

 

[insight3b]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

I would get some surplus pulled RE15

http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

 

[TrapperT]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

I would suggest working with one powder and primer combo. Varget will offer great accuracy and it is one of the better powders for the .308. It also is great in temperature extremes. Second, CCI BR2 primers work very well with Varget and would be my first choice for primers, although I have shot a lot of .308 with Federal 210M's also. The Varget/CCI combo has worked in many, many guns.

If you're loading from a mag stick with the recommended OAL of 2.800". Although when seating bullets, I prefer to measure from base of cartridge to ogive using a Sinclair comparator.

BTW - don't get to hung up on speed. Higher speed will not necessarily equate to better accuracy.

Just my .02....

 

[turbo54]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

If you told me I had one chance at making accurate 308 ammo for an unknown rifle, I'd try:

175smk
44.0gr Varget
2.800"
whatever primer
whatever brass

 

[George63]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

1st, sort your brass by headstamp - hopefully 1 type will dominate( or if they actually are all win you are GTG), then maybe weigh the others, avoid using any that are + or - more than 5 grains from the dominate

if you are able to do some testing during the reloading, the simplest would be say 10 samples of 4 rds each, of the above load, varying by .1 gr each at magazine length (43.5 - 44.4 varget) - using the dominate brass; almost certainly this will be enough variation to make 1 or 2 of the samples stand out from the rest

with or without testing, keep the ammo loaded in the dominate brass separate, use it to get your comeups - use the ammo in the other brass for utility/casual practice

3lbs of varget would do the 500 with the 44 gr +- load

no issues with load development at a different altitude

 

[George63]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would get some surplus pulled RE15

http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html </div></div>

not the best advice for a new/occasional reloader - better to stay with a common powder

 

[insight3b]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

George,
It is just tuned RE15 so that the SCAMP machines can throw a single charge for the desired velocity. Use RE15 data and work up
and it is the cheapest to be found

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you told me I had one chance at making accurate 308 ammo for an unknown rifle, I'd try:

175smk
44.0gr Varget
2.800"
whatever primer
whatever brass </div></div>

In all the "pet loads" I've read for .308 and a 175 gr bullet this load is right in there. For a similar barrel I use 43.5 gr Varget with a 175 BTHP for my "go to load".

 

[George63]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">George,
It is just tuned RE15 so that the SCAMP machines can throw a single charge for the desired velocity. Use RE15 data and work up
and it is the cheapest to be found </div></div>

while you use r15 info the surplus powder loads do not line up with the name brand powder- better to start with a less confusing/more available name brand powder

I like/ use a lot of the surplus powders, but again it is not the advice to give to a new reloader

I also thought cheaper was the better starting option - not so much anymore

 

[George63]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you told me I had one chance at making accurate 308 ammo for an unknown rifle, I'd try:

175smk
44.0gr Varget
2.800"
whatever primer
whatever brass </div></div>

In all the "pet loads" I've read for .308 and a 175 gr bullet this load is right in there. For a similar barrel I use 43.5 gr Varget with a 175 BTHP for my "go to load". </div></div>

like above, if you can do some testing some where in the 43.5 -44.4 varget will 99% have it covered

 

[insight3b]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: insight3b</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would get some surplus pulled RE15

http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html </div></div>

not the best advice for a new/occasional reloader - better to stay with a common powder </div></div>

It is common powder. If you were to look at the link and scroll down to RE15 and read it you will see what I'm talking about.
It is a noncanister grade of RE15 that is pulled from M118 SB LR..the reason the entire lot of ammo was scrapped that this powder came from is because it didn't meet the standard for M118 LR's velocity parameters.

IF you are a new reloader and decide to buy this powder follow the directions in the link(start low and work up) which is exactly what you should do if you crack open a brand new bottle of RE15

 

[LawnMM]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

If you are doing a mass reloading blitz, I would try and get an idea of your load ahead of time. Look at the reloading depot for ideas.

I think Varget and RL15 are the two favorites for 308. I would really suggest you look at the Hornady 178HPBT projectiles. You can get them for a good 7-8 bucks a box cheaper than the Sierra 175s and they have a higher BC.

Hogdon's starting charge for Varget with 175gr projectiles is 42gr with a max of 45gr. My pet load is 43.8gr and I've been thinking of making a trip out to the range to do some chronograph work. If you want to push a few of mine through your rifle over the chronograph to see what you get for velocity I'd be willing to help a fellow LR shooter out.

I highly recommend the 178 HPBTs and Varget, the CCI BR2s are a little pricey, but when you do the math they only run about 5 cents a round when you buy a brick of 1000. Its proven to be a very consistent load.

My advice on your actual load development, controversial as it may be, is to shoot everything over your chronograph first and ignore the group sizes. Group size variations typically have more to do with the shooter than the load. When you get something that looks good on paper with single digit SD's and an ES that you can live with, THEN shoot it for group size and see how it does at 100 and 300 group size wise.

I doubt you will find a group with tight numbers that doesn't group well.

Rich

 

[earthquake]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

I forgot to mention that I will load to 2.800 COAL since I haven't measured my chamber yet (nor am I sure how), and that my rifle is mag-fed (AICS mags).

This is all good info, well received, and appreciated. Funny though that not one person suggested the powder I'd originally inquired about (Alliant 2000MR). I'll probably start out by picking up 3lbs of Varget, and a box of CCI BR2 primers.

I've heard that it helps when pouring extruded powders to use a 6" "drop-tube", so I'll look at one of those too.

I should be able to shoot out to 700 yds while in OH at my uncle's house. Was thinking of re-reading TresMons posts here about doing ladder tests. Would be interested in working these loads out at 300yds and 500yds too.

Well anyway, my questions were answered, so I'll start out with one pow/primer combo. Will do a full write-up/range-report when I'm done. Thanks again!

*<span style="text-decoration: underline">Edit to add</span>: I'm using the 175 SMK's because I just bought 500 of them (for only $85!) so that's what I'm going with. Will look into the 178's some other time though, but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

You won't need a drop tube, that's only if you are maxing out cartidge capacity with powder. You will hit the pressure wall before a compressed load with Varget.

 

[justinbaker]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

if you dont have a drop tube, then just pour the powder slower than normal

 

[30SMK]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LawnMM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You won't need a drop tube, that's only if you are maxing out cartidge capacity with powder. You will hit the pressure wall before a compressed load with Varget.

</div></div>

At 43-44grs of Varget with a 2.800" COAL that will be compressed in a 308 no matter what brass you are using. It will by no means fill the case up but it will be compressed.

 

[earthquake]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

Good lord this is more time intensive than I thought it would be! So far I've only loaded 40 rounds of 500. Not sure if I want to be a reloader as I can't imagine ever having the time to do this right.

I'm a stickler for precision and it seems I can't get a consistent reading from my digital scale when weighing powder, or when measuring COAL and brass length. It also seems like the die won't seat bullets to the same depth.

Checking and rechecking and re-weighing everything over and over is turning me off. I did fire what I loaded and there were no pressure signs. I did 20 rounds with 43.0 gr and 20 with 43.5 gr. I wasn't impressed with the groups. Factory ammo groups better. How much should I expect to have reload to get good shooting ammo. I know they were my first ones.

 

[scottsnipe]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good lord this is more time intensive than I thought it would be! So far I've only loaded 40 rounds of 500. Not sure if I want to be a reloader as I can't imagine ever having the time to do this right.

I'm a stickler for precision and it seems I can't get a consistent reading from my digital scale when weighing powder, or when measuring COAL and brass length. It also seems like the die won't seat bullets to the same depth.

Checking and rechecking and re-weighing everything over and over is turning me off. I did fire what I loaded and there were no pressure signs. I did 20 rounds with 43.0 gr and 20 with 43.5 gr. I wasn't impressed with the groups. Factory ammo groups better. How much should I expect to have reload to get good shooting ammo. I know they were my first ones. </div></div>

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading!!! It can be very tedious but usually very rewarding. I had a similar set up and loaded 44gr of varget with a 175smk also but i seated the bullet to 2.790 as mine liked the jump better. Also when you find the OAL you want make sure you remeasure at the olgive because most of the time the metplat(tip) has variences and can throw your measurements off.

 

[culater]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

Dude Stop what your doing and check yourself.You should get off the(digital scale when weighing powder).These scales are not very reliable unless you pay for the $900 type. Go with the RCBS 10-10 scale.Do a ladder test where you start with 42gr and move up your charge by .2 gr until you get to max in the book your using.when the load starts to group then take note and start a load development with a .1 gr difference.Shoot 5 shot groups and pick out the best one.When shooting your 5 shot groups have a chrongraph and take notes of your speed.You need to buy powder with same lot number because different lots of powder will burn different rate.Buy a 8lb varget will solve that and buy 500 bullets pack in the same lot also.Find someone local that can help you out and speed you up.

 

[nso123]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

I don't think I would even consider loading 500 rounds of anything until I found a good load for the rifle. Like everyone has said, Varget is a great powder. Measure off the ogive using a comparator due to how the tip of SMKs are formed. You may find that your rifle is picky about what it likes to shoot, and you may really have to fine tune it.

 

[earthquake]

Re: 1st time load developing blitz

OK, good advice, thanks. I'm noticing that the bullets I bought (pulled) are pretty beat up too. I think I want to stick with it, and since I won't have time to load anything else until I get back to CO, I'm going to buy my own press kit and do it myself SLOWLY and methodically. I do have a few Q's...

1. Brass length? Does length matter, as long as I don't exceed max? 2.015" is max from what I've read, and I notice that most, not all, are ~2.016 - 2.018, so I was trimming. Got most down to ~2.008 - 2.013". Either the brass trimmer isn't clamping perfectly between pieces or the calipers are klugy.

2. I started using a balance scale and a powder trickler, which seemed to ease my mind. The thrower was throwing 43.4 - 43.6gr as shown by the electronic scale, then I'd pour that onto the balance scale (set for 43.5) and confirm. If low, I'd trickle more in until it levelled. Is this o.k.?

3. I'm looking at getting the Hornady reloading kit with bushing dies etc., found it for $299 and comes with just about everything except dies. Good kit?

4. If I buy this, I'm going to reload everything I shoot, 9mm, .308 and I'm building a .264....if I do start reloading, should I chamber in .260 or 6.5CM? I was leaning CM since I wasn't planning on reloading. Is it worth it to load CM? I couldn't find any info on loads in the Speer, Lyman, or Nosler loading manuals I looked at yesterday....only .260 Rem. (couldn't find a Hornady manual to look at)

So yeah, I'm going to stop loading for now until I can do it slowly on my own terms back in CO. I think it's kind of growing on me, now that I look at it as a hobby and not a blitz thing!

Thanks again.