F T/R Competition 215g berger Hybrid

[paul T]

In process of building FTR rig with 32inch 1 in 10 twist barrel to shoot the 215g hybrids and 185g hybrid-juggernaut bullets for 800-1000y and have few questions i need to ask, If i get reamer to suit the Long 215 hybrid would long throat also suit the shorter 185g bergers?
apart from better wind bucking abilities does the 215 hybrid have any other advantage over the lighter 185g weight bullets for 1000y,
Was there many shooters at this years ratton FTR matches using the heavier 215-230g bullets ifso how did they fair against shooters using the lighter 185g bullets.

 

[BC 6.8]

Nik Taylor won the World Championship and he was shooting the 200 gr Berger Hybrid.

 

[paul T]

Thanks for info.

 

[memilanuk]

Nik Taylor won the World Championship and he was shooting the 200 gr Berger Hybrid.

In all fairness... the guy that got #2 was shooting B155.5BTs and #3 used B185OTM Juggernauts. It's not as much the arrow as the injun, and at Raton, the luck of the draw on which relay ya got. There were a lot of good shooters present, and Nik had to stay on top of things and capitalize on the conditions presented to him, so I'm not trying to take anything away from him. But I am saying that just because he used a B200 Hybrid (a damn fine projectile, in my limited experience with it) doesn't *necessarily* mean its the best choice for anyone else.

Was there many shooters at this years ratton FTR matches using the heavier 215-230g bullets ifso how did they fair against shooters using the lighter 185g bullets.

As for this... there were a slug of 'em, mostly on the Michigan F/TR teams (A & B), coached by Bryan Litz. From the sounds of things, they used (for the most part) a common gunsmith (John Pierce, of Pierce Actions), with a lot of them running his action to boot. I talked with him a little about the reamer they used... he mentioned it had something like a .310 or .320 freebore, which effectively turns it into a 215-230gn only chamber. By way of comparison, the 2013 US FTR reamer uses a .170 freebore, and with the B185OTM there is ~150 thou of bearing surface left in the neck. With a .310 freebore you'd be left with no choice but to jump - a lot. That in and of itself may not be a complete show-stopper - I've ran B155.5BTs with a fair degree of success in the past with ~.100 of bearing surface in the neck, and jumping 45-50 thou, and I've jumped 6.5mm B140VLDs even more in order to get them to shoot in certain guns. Whether the different versions of the Berger .30 cal 185gn bullet would be quite as tolerant of that much jump is not something I've had to test as of yet.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[BC 6.8]

Monte - I totally agree with you that winning has way more to do with WHO is behind the rifle versus what is coming out of it. I was just giving the OP some info that he asked for.

 

[paul T]

Thanks for Info Monte, Talked with few members of Irish FTR Team who also mentioned conditions at Raton were very challenging to say the least with large swings with wind direction and patterns from gusts to swirling wind conditions, they also were shooting the exellent 185g bergers.

 

[Down South]

In all fairness... the guy that got #2 was shooting B155.5BTs and #3 used B185OTM Juggernauts. It's not as much the arrow as the injun, and at Raton, the luck of the draw on which relay ya got. There were a lot of good shooters present, and Nik had to stay on top of things and capitalize on the conditions presented to him, so I'm not trying to take anything away from him. But I am saying that just because he used a B200 Hybrid (a damn fine projectile, in my limited experience with it) doesn't *necessarily* mean its the best choice for anyone else.



As for this... there were a slug of 'em, mostly on the Michigan F/TR teams (A & B), coached by Bryan Litz. From the sounds of things, they used (for the most part) a common gunsmith (John Pierce, of Pierce Actions), with a lot of them running his action to boot. I talked with him a little about the reamer they used... he mentioned it had something like a .310 or .320 freebore, which effectively turns it into a 215-230gn only chamber. By way of comparison, the 2013 US FTR reamer uses a .170 freebore, and with the B185OTM there is ~150 thou of bearing surface left in the neck. With a .310 freebore you'd be left with no choice but to jump - a lot. That in and of itself may not be a complete show-stopper - I've ran B155.5BTs with a fair degree of success in the past with ~.100 of bearing surface in the neck, and jumping 45-50 thou, and I've jumped 6.5mm B140VLDs even more in order to get them to shoot in certain guns. Whether the different versions of the Berger .30 cal 185gn bullet would be quite as tolerant of that much jump is not something I've had to test as of yet.

YMMV,

Monte

Monte,

My new FTR rig has two barrels, one chambered for 185/200s and the other barrel chambered for the 230s. When i was doing barrel break in and just running some rounds through the 230 (9.25 twist) barrel i shot some 185 juggernauts just to see what they do. I loaded them 2.290 base to ogive for no ryme or reason which was jumping them .110 to the lands. I then proceeded to shoot a 10 shot group at 100 yards off the bipod (Pheonix). The group measured .489, just under half inch so i would say they don't mind the long jump. That was with 43gr N-150 and BR2 primers. The funny part is that i just picked 43 gr cause it sounded good and i knew it wasn't gonna be a high pressure load......lol

 

[pappy83]

My kid was on the Michigan f class team she used the 215 berger but with a CBI barrel with only .090 free bore it worked if you look at scores she shot quite well with that setup. Her barrel likes the 185 juggernaut better for shooting small groups but the 215's worked well enough. Her next barrel will have .120 free bore so she can still shoot both bullets. Her coal was 3.035 with the 215's she averaged 2602fps out of that barrel which was a little faster then expected.

 

[Denys]

Let me just say that planning to run 2 very different bullets in the same rifle is not optimum, in my opinion.

I have been running the same bullet and load for the last several years and I believe that helped me do quite well in Raton, (~22nd overall (6th Expert) with 1244-31X in FCNC; and 43rd with 425-24V in FCWC). I did not feel under-gunned or outclassed in any way with my 180gr JLK LBTs. So my advice to the OP would be pick one bullet, learn it, live it, love it. I will also say that picking one bullet for practice and club matches and another for big matches is counter-productive.

 

[Dshooter]

Let me just say that planning to run 2 very different bullets in the same rifle is not optimum, in my opinion.

I have been running the same bullet and load for the last several years and I believe that helped me do quite well in Raton, (~22nd overall (6th Expert) with 1244-31X in FCNC; and 43rd with 425-24V in FCWC). I did not feel under-gunned or outclassed in any way with my 180gr JLK LBTs. So my advice to the OP would be pick one bullet, learn it, live it, love it. I will also say that picking one bullet for practice and club matches and another for big matches is counter-productive.

+1 ...you can run more than one bullet out of a specific chamber but the ones you have are 2 different worlds. You could round between say a 175 berger up to around the 200 hybrid and they should shoot well out of a specific chamber.
AND AS FAR AS PIERCE ENGINEERING....stay away. They'll build you a great shooter if your on a shooting team but that's about it. Severely hosed mine up. They had an unlimited budget and time to do it. I pick it up and it eats brass, the longer milled mag opening won't feed, base won't screw down because threads weren't chased and lastly, supplied them with a 185 jug dummy round and get it(gun) back with .225 free bore, which gave me over .100 jump to the lands with the way I had the dummy set up; which was seated long to make up for jump! Horrific workmanship and incompetent smith. But on the other hand I can shoot 230s out of it...WTF

 

[Donald]

For me the 215gr works well, the advantages are not large but they are there if you can use them.

 

[tsweetsam]

The one who shoot heavier do not got advantage due to comparing with more recoil.

 

[XTR]

If you throat to load the 215 you will not be able to shoot the 185s w/o jumping them something in the 100 or more range, and if you throat to shoot the 185s the 215s will be way back into the case.

You can set a rifle up for 230/215, 215/200, or 200/185 and others.

The US team won the World Championship using 185s.

The top three finishers in the individuals at the Worlds were 200/155/185

In the end the difference in the bullets may help you get over the next two people above you at a National level match. To get more than that you need to make better wind calls.

 

[jsthntn247]

A .169 freebore will allow you to shoot the 215's and the 185's. The 185's will have around .160 bearing surface in the case and the 215 will be right at the neck shoulder junction. I have that reamer and shoot both so I know.