22-250 or 22 Creedmoor

[nick338]

If doing a custom rifle with a 6.5 twist to run 90 gr A-tips or 95 Sierra Matchkings, other than maybe 50 fps difference is there any reason to go with a 22 Creedmoor over a standard 22-250? Is barrel life going to be similar?

Not looking for a 3500 fps laser beam and I've looked at the form factor for all .22 caliber bullets. I like the downrange performance of the heavier loads vs the lightweight, speed loads.

 

[spife7980]

There can be if you are feeding from a mag wit the 22-250s banana shape.

 

[nick338]

Yes mag feeding is important.

 

[spife7980]

Just go creed if its not already chambered for 22-250. Might be tough to find headstamped brass right now but thats just because its awesome and everyone wants it. I love mine.

 

[nick338]

I was told by Peterson probably March or April. Action, stock and barrel have been ordered but are at least 6 months out so brass isn't really a concern.

What bullets do you run in it and how is your barrel life?

 

[spife7980]

Im 26" 7 twist shooting 85 rdfs at 3400 when new and 90° during the summer and now its 3450 at 40° with alpha brass and rl26.

I have 700 rounds on this barrel and its still shooting 3" at 500 in 5 rounds groups during a load development check though just like it did at 100 rounds. Unfortunately Ill not be shooting it for awhile as I am out of small primers to use it with so I cant really speak to how much longer it will go at this point. But its awesome.

Ill have a second short one that I just I finished that is a 18" 8 twist coyote gun with 77tmks but I havent gotten/found the large primer brass for it yet. (I have large primers, not small)

 

[nick338]

Shit I have 1k of Federal 205M's I don't need. Wish I could get them to you.

 

[Ledzep]

Why do people buy 6 and 6.5 twist 22 cal barrels? When you push small caliber stuff like this I always aim for the MINIMUM to reliably stabilize the projectile (1.2-1.4 SG) unless you're running it at pooch velocity. Faster twists tear up jackets and if there happens to be any eccentric mass in the bullet (in reality there always is, just a matter of how much), spinning it faster only makes accuracy worse.

Anyway, 22-250 and run it mild because at a 6.5 twist you pop over 300,000 RPM at a whopping 2700 fps...

The more overbore you go, the slower powder you burn, the more carbon fouling becomes an issue. Clean it often and potentially polish the throat. Expect bullets to blow up. Basically on command if you pop off 15-20 in short order.

ETA: Not claiming this will work for everyone at every elevation and temp, but I have a 1:8 twist 22-250 that stabilizes 88's, 90 VLD's, and 90 A-tips just fine. YMMV.

ETA2: For those who are going to say "Well, I get the most BC possible when it's over 1.5 SG"... What is the BC of an exploded bullet?

 

[nick338]

Why do people buy 6 and 6.5 twist 22 cal barrels? When you push small caliber stuff like this I always aim for the MINIMUM to reliably stabilize the projectile (1.2-1.4 SG) unless you're running it at pooch velocity. Faster twists tear up jackets and if there happens to be any eccentric mass in the bullet (in reality there always is, just a matter of how much), spinning it faster only makes accuracy worse.

Anyway, 22-250 and run it mild because at a 6.5 twist you pop over 300,000 RPM at a whopping 2700 fps...

The more overbore you go, the slower powder you burn, the more carbon fouling becomes an issue. Clean it often and potentially polish the throat. Expect bullets to blow up. Basically on command if you pop off 15-20 in short order.

ETA: Not claiming this will work for everyone at every elevation and temp, but I have a 1:8 twist 22-250 that stabilizes 88's, 90 VLD's, and 90 A-tips just fine. YMMV.

ETA2: For those who are going to say "Well, I get the most BC possible when it's over 1.5 SG"... What is the BC of an exploded bullet?

When I ordered the barrel from Bartlein and told them what bullets I was interested in, 6.5 twist is what they recommended.

 

[nick338]

I also shoot at 250 feet of elevation and sub 30 degree temps so that plays into as well.

 

[nick338]

Why do people buy 6 and 6.5 twist 22 cal barrels? When you push small caliber stuff like this I always aim for the MINIMUM to reliably stabilize the projectile (1.2-1.4 SG) unless you're running it at pooch velocity. Faster twists tear up jackets and if there happens to be any eccentric mass in the bullet (in reality there always is, just a matter of how much), spinning it faster only makes accuracy worse.

Anyway, 22-250 and run it mild because at a 6.5 twist you pop over 300,000 RPM at a whopping 2700 fps...

The more overbore you go, the slower powder you burn, the more carbon fouling becomes an issue. Clean it often and potentially polish the throat. Expect bullets to blow up. Basically on command if you pop off 15-20 in short order.

ETA: Not claiming this will work for everyone at every elevation and temp, but I have a 1:8 twist 22-250 that stabilizes 88's, 90 VLD's, and 90 A-tips just fine. YMMV.

ETA2: For those who are going to say "Well, I get the most BC possible when it's over 1.5 SG"... What is the BC of an exploded bullet?

What is your elevation and average temp so I have something to gauge if I want to slow the twist down?

 

[spife7980]

Id be concerned with the heavy hornadys as they have so many reports of tearing apart but I dont hear much about the other heavy bullets these days. Im going 344k rpms with the rdfs in my 7twist and havent had any issues though I am watching out for them. 6.5 is overkill as is 7 twist but I dont think its undoable with the matchking or even a good lot of the elds.

 

[nick338]

I hear a lot about Hornady ELD's and some A-tips blowing up, probably a lot less A-tips out there so the feedback is probably relative to the sample size and I'm guessing the jackets aren't much different. It's definitely something I want to avoid altogether if possible so maybe a step back in twist and/or staying away from Hornady bullets in general on this build is the way to go.

The Berger 85.5 looks interesting and I could probably run an 8 twist where I'm at.

 

[Ledzep]

1800-3000ft, usually 27.5-28.0 inHg for baro. Shoot year round 20-110 degrees.

 

[b6graham]

i have a 22LRV from WTO (6XC parent) and shoot a 25" 7 twist kreiger

37.6gr H4350 gets 95SMKs to 3140
same load blows up 88ELDMs at 3175

have a friend shooting a 6.5 twist and he blows up 95SMKs at 3175

 

[padom]

I've been shooting a 26" Bartlein and a GM both in 7 twist 224 in 220TB for 2yr now. Slinging 90 smk at 3050fps and barrel life in the 2500-3000 range. Your looking at closer to 2000 with GM button and closer to 3000 with Bartlein... all shot from a TL3 with MDT mags. Super accurate, consistently 0.5moa at 900yd


If speed is your only goal than 22-250 or 22cm but you give up a lot of barrel life... otherwise 22BR or 220TB.....

These 90smk are shooting so good to 1000 I have yet to even try the 1000 95smk I have here. The ballistics match my 6.5cm dope to 800yd and to 1000 the wind is just slightly more than 6.5cm

 

[blackblue]

Just a thought, would a gain twist barrel help with the blowups?

 

[nick338]

Changed to a 7.5 twist to keep options open. Not going to over-spin and blow up bullets just to be able to shoot a 95 SMK.

 

[CarbonMTN]

Im new to reloading so help me out.

I'm looking forward to building a 22 CM with the 95 SMK but I want to keep the speed 2700-3000fps. Can I under charge the powder, or could that cause problems?

 

[BiggBeans]

so how do you get a 22-250 to feed correctly from an AICS mag? because ive been thinking about doing the same. and 22-250 brass is easy to get here

 

[nick338]

Im new to reloading so help me out.

I'm looking forward to building a 22 CM with the 95 SMK but I want to keep the speed 2700-3000fps. Can I under charge the powder, or could that cause problems?

So I'm not an experienced reloader by any means but I would think if you are undercharging enough, the case fill will be deficient and any consistency in your loads will be non-existent.

 

[Ledzep]

So I'm not an experienced reloader by any means but I would think if you are undercharging enough, the case fill will be deficient and any consistency in your loads will be non-existent.

It's very dependent on the powder, cartridge, bullet, etc... I've shot some phenomenal groups (both MV spreads and accuracy) with ~70% case fill loads. Talking .4-.5 MOA for 20 shots with 6-9fps SD. That said, the worse you get, the more subject you are to powder-forward vs. powder-rearward variation in pressure and MV.

To the original question, yes, you can down load within reason. Most reloading data lists starting loads that are pretty mild. Hornady book has 400fps spread in most cartridges.

 

[nick338]

It's very dependent on the powder, cartridge, bullet, etc... I've shot some phenomenal groups (both MV spreads and accuracy) with ~70% case fill loads. Talking .4-.5 MOA for 20 shots with 6-9fps SD. That said, the worse you get, the more subject you are to powder-forward vs. powder-rearward variation in pressure and MV.

To the original question, yes, you can down load within reason. Most reloading data lists starting loads that are pretty mild. Hornady book has 400fps spread in most cartridges.

Wasn't that the big complaint with 300 Norma early on with the powder column shifting up or down causing swings in mv due to the nature of the ammo and how it was being carried in the field and a lack of powder to fill the case before overpressure?

 

[Ledzep]

Yep, powder forward and powder rearward can cause shifts in MV and pressure in some circumstances. Again, it depends on which powder in which case.

My case was 32gr of Varget with a 140gr ELD-M at 2407fps. 3 different strings (20 ea.) were all under 1.1" at 200yd, SDs were 8, 7, and 4 fps. IMHO the 4fps SD was luck. Most everything else I've ever done is 7-12fps so I'd imagine the true SD of the combination in the 6-9fps range. Stellar regardless.