22 Creedmoor with 85.5 Berger Hybrids

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
I’ve been floating around the hide for a lot of years now and have enjoyed every minute of it. Every now and again I find myself having a hissy fit when I cannot find the information I am looking for. It has finally donned on me that maybe I should be a part of the solution and post the things that I had been looking for and can’t find. My hope is it may help the next guy that is looking.

I’ve recently started down the road of load development for my 22 Creedmoor. My intention is to use 85.5 Berger’s as I have 1000 of them. The rifle is as follows.
Defiance ruckus
Manners EH1 gen 2 mini chassis
24” carbon 7 twist Paradigm barrel
Jewel

So far I have done a 10 round pressure test using Peterson LRP brass Fed 210 match and H4350 loaded at 2.700 The results were I found slight pressure at 37 grains in the form of flattened primers, that charge resulted in 3115fps. There was an interesting flat spot in speed between 36.6 and 36.8 yielding velocitys of 3082fps and 3085fps. I’m sure the barrel is gunna speed up so I guess we will see. It seems like a long stretch to copper creeks advertised 3250fps with 4350 and the 85.5

Moving forward I think I will pressure test some more powders behind the 85.5s to help some people if you are interested let me know.

I have the following powders I am willing to try

H4350
Hybrid 100V
RL26
H1000
H4831SC
N160
N165
IMR 7828
IMR 7977
Retumbo

If anyone has any interest in testing these powders before stocking up let me know. For myself I think I’ll try some slower powders and see if I can get a bit more speed in a stable node as coyote season is upon us.

Thanks for reading. Happy shooting
 
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spife7980

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Feb 10, 2017
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You’re really going to like rl26 in that 22 creed. My load is right at the max of 43.5 but it shoots 3350 with an 85 rdf in alpha brass, 26” 7 twist.
 
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Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Thought I would update my findings today as I have been testing Lapua 6mm Creedmoor brass today with 4350
I tested the following charges in a 10 round pressure test and have yet to see any pressure signs, however this is as far as I will push it as I would like to do a test with RL26 today as well.

Grains Velocity FPS
37.2 3129
37.4 3155
37.6 3159
37.8 3179
38.0 3181
38.2 3215
38.4 3200
38.6 3220
38.8 3249
39 3252

It would appear there is a couple of flat spots to play in. I found that my FL sizing set up for the peterson brass was far too much at .004. I have since fixed my boob move and i am only sizing .001. I think that was showing some signs early for me on the first test. I will revisit but for now I will continue with Lapua.

Update @ 37.9 Grains
3205
3203
3210
3206
3206
SD 2.5
ES 7
 
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Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Well I managed to test some RL26
41.8 3149
42 3161
42.2 3165
42.4 3171
42.6 Primer did not ignite (struck well so not sure what happened there)
42.8 3221
43 3219
43.2 3221
43.4 3244 harder bolt lift
43.6 3267 hard bolt lift, ejector swipe

To be honest I thought I would get more out of RL 26 for speed. That said I am liking the flat spot between 42.8 and 43.2. Looks pretty delicious.
 
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spife7980

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Well I managed to test some RL26
41.8 3149
42 3161
42.2 3165
42.4 3171
42.6 Primer did not ignite (struck well so not sure what happened there)
42.8 3221
43 3219
43.2 3221
43.4 3244 harder bolt lift
43.6 3267 hard bolt lift, ejector swipe

To be honest I thought I would get more out of RL 26 for speed. That said I am liking the flat spot between 42.8 and 43.2. Looks pretty delicious.
I would have too... guess that’s what I get for thinking lol
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Well I shot some groups with RL26. Averaged about 1/2” across the board testing some different seating depths. I tried both sides of the node I found at 42.9 43 and 43.1. What is interesting is every group I shot had one flier sending the groups out to 1/2-3/4”. I ended up getting a bit frustrated so I hung the rifle up for the day. I don’t think I’ll give up on RL26 quite yet as the SD and ES were beautiful. I am annealing my cases and will see if I catch something in my process causing the flier.
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Here is a picture of my most recent 10 round group. I am happy with the consistency of the load for now. 1 round fouler on clean bore followed by 10 consecutive with 43 grains RL26 CCI BR4 and lapua brass. Seated at 2.700 with the 85.5. I might fiddle with primers a bit because I am obsessive. I will be annealing all my brass now as I haven’t as of yet. That may bring it down a bit. Group measures .550 for 10. What do you guys offer for advice. My reloading process is clean, FL size .001 under, expand with KM mandrel for .002 neck tension, seating with Whidden and only getting .002 variance on the high end.
 

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stello1001

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Feb 20, 2017
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Here is a picture of my most recent 10 round group. I am happy with the consistency of the load for now. 1 round fouler on clean bore followed by 10 consecutive with 43 grains RL26 CCI BR4 and lapua brass. Seated at 2.700 with the 85.5. I might fiddle with primers a bit because I am obsessive. I will be annealing all my brass now as I haven’t as of yet. That may bring it down a bit. Group measures .550 for 10. What do you guys offer for advice. My reloading process is clean, FL size .001 under, expand with KM mandrel for .002 neck tension, seating with Whidden and only getting .002 variance on the high end.

Group looks good, have you measured MV?
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Ran a velocity test with H4831sc today and found I could only get to 3180 at 40.5 grains before pressure signs showed up. I think I’ll do the same with some H1000 and IMR 7977 enduron to see what they will produce. Stay tuned I’ll keep you posted on results.
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
Ran Another test today because its way too cold out to go sit stands, I have 8 lbs of it and I was bored. Today I tested Vit N160 behind the 85.5 Bergers using a 7 1/2 primer. The results were pretty cool. It would appear this is a really consistent powder in my rifle. I had two really wide nodes I am going to play in. The data is as follows. Next up I want to try IMR 7977 and see what it will do for me.

38.6 3165
38.8 3172
39 3173
39.2 3181
39.4 3213
39.6 3229
39.8 3232
40 3233
40.2 3248
40.4 3267

I followed this up with a quick verification at 39.8 which showed 3223, 3229,3223 SD 3.4 and ES 6. So pretty happy there.


I am pretty stoked to see two nice nodes show up but I am going to play in the 6 tenths wide node from 39.6-40.0 showing SD 2.0 and ES 4.0. I ran into the early pressure signs at 40.6 which was at 3270 so I stopped there and didnt use the data for input. Hope this helps someone who may be sitting on some N160.
 

kthomas

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Jun 17, 2009
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Well I managed to test some RL26
41.8 3149
42 3161
42.2 3165
42.4 3171
42.6 Primer did not ignite (struck well so not sure what happened there)
42.8 3221
43 3219
43.2 3221
43.4 3244 harder bolt lift
43.6 3267 hard bolt lift, ejector swipe

To be honest I thought I would get more out of RL 26 for speed. That said I am liking the flat spot between 42.8 and 43.2. Looks pretty delicious.

I almost guarantee that if you were to reload an identical ladder, that flat spot or "node" is not repeatable.

You need a bigger sample size then 1 shot per charge weight to determine any velocity "nodes".
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
I almost guarantee that if you were to reload an identical ladder, that flat spot or "node" is not repeatable.

You need a bigger sample size then 1 shot per charge weight to determine any velocity "nodes".
Oh I understand fully that one shot is not sufficient data to produce a be all end all load. I don’t believe I stated that “this is the load” however I did state areas to play in. I Have noticed though that 1 shot x 10 round powder work up does identify some areas to play in and so far they have been repeatable areas of identification if you will and I generally find myself finding my load within the areas of powder charge that have shown up. Maybe I am just lucky I don’t know, I do know there are quite a few very accomplished shooters out there (which is where I got the idea from) that use this method. All of them agree (including me) with you that this is not conclusive data to hang your hat on. It is merely a early test that produces some data to go on. This method does work for me and I am fully aware my opinion is of no significance. Just a dude trying some powders to help guys out.
 

kthomas

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Jun 17, 2009
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Oh I understand fully that one shot is not sufficient data to produce a be all end all load. I don’t believe I stated that “this is the load” however I did state areas to play in. I Have noticed though that 1 shot x 10 round powder work up does identify some areas to play in and so far they have been repeatable areas of identification if you will and I generally find myself finding my load within the areas of powder charge that have shown up. Maybe I am just lucky I don’t know, I do know there are quite a few very accomplished shooters out there (which is where I got the idea from) that use this method. All of them agree (including me) with you that this is not conclusive data to hang your hat on. It is merely a early test that produces some data to go on. This method does work for me and I am fully aware my opinion is of no significance. Just a dude trying some powders to help guys out.

I use to use that method. Or what's commonly referred to as the "Satterlee method". Did it for years when I first started reloading, because people swore by that method, and it's super easy.

One day I decided that if one ladder, or data set, was good, then two would be better. So I loaded up two identical ladders, every time I went through the exercise. I found that any so-called "node", was never really repeatable. The "node" only appeared to be one, because the sample sizes were so insignificantly small, that they are meaningless.

The loads I found using that method weren't bad, but once I abandoned it, my reloads only got better. None of the "nodes" I found in those ladders correlated into reloads that resulted in the best ES/SD. Not a single one.

Anyways, if it works for you, then that's great. Who am I to say that what you are doing isn't going to work for you.
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
I use to use that method. Or what's commonly referred to as the "Satterlee method". Did it for years when I first started reloading, because people swore by that method, and it's super easy.

One day I decided that if one ladder, or data set, was good, then two would be better. So I loaded up two identical ladders, every time I went through the exercise. I found that any so-called "node", was never really repeatable. The "node" only appeared to be one, because the sample sizes were so insignificantly small, that they are meaningless.

The loads I found using that method weren't bad, but once I abandoned it, my reloads only got better. None of the "nodes" I found in those ladders correlated into reloads that resulted in the best ES/SD. Not a single one.

Anyways, if it works for you, then that's great. Who am I to say that what you are doing isn't going to work for you.
Have you ever tried the expanded 10 shot method? Think it ends up being 50 or 100 rounds of data.
 

kthomas

Sergeant
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Jun 17, 2009
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Tucson, AZ
Have you ever tried the expanded 10 shot method? Think it ends up being 50 or 100 rounds of data.

What I do know is shoot a ladder, to get an idea of approximate idea of velocity per charge weight, and where pressure begins.

I then pick a velocity target (that's below pressure, and usually a velocity I know from history works), and then load up 5 rounds of each charge weight, within +/- 0.4 grains of my target velocity. I'll then shoot those over a chrono, and find what has the best ES/SD.

I've found that most reloads shoot pretty good and have good ES/SD, as long as you are in the ballpark. What really matters is using quality components (lapua brass, berger bullets, etc), quality reloading equipment (dies, powder dispenser/measurement, etc.) and being consistent in your reloading method. With these things, it's hard to produce bad reloads. My ES's are usually around ~15 fps or so, and that's consistent over 30+ shots on a chrono.
 

NodakBarbarian

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Jun 30, 2019
97
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North Dakota
I use to use that method. Or what's commonly referred to as the "Satterlee method". Did it for years when I first started reloading, because people swore by that method, and it's super easy.

One day I decided that if one ladder, or data set, was good, then two would be better. So I loaded up two identical ladders, every time I went through the exercise. I found that any so-called "node", was never really repeatable. The "node" only appeared to be one, because the sample sizes were so insignificantly small, that they are meaningless.

The loads I found using that method weren't bad, but once I abandoned it, my reloads only got better. None of the "nodes" I found in those ladders correlated into reloads that resulted in the best ES/SD. Not a single one.

Anyways, if it works for you, then that's great. Who am I to say that what you are doing isn't going to work for you.
Saw you answered my question.
 

unleashedprecision

Private
Minuteman
Apr 30, 2017
23
8
This is great info and much appreciated! I am going to try N165 tomorrow with this bullet. I will also try N160, H1000 and H4350 at the same time.

Have you tried H4831 yet? I use it in 260AI and 25-08AI with great results.
 
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Bobsuruncle

Private
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Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
This is great info and much appreciated! I am going to try N165 tomorrow with this bullet. I will also try N160, H1000 and H4350 at the same time.

Have you tried H4831 yet? I use it in 260AI and 25-08AI with great results.
Yes I did. I honestly didn’t get too far though in my testing. I ran into pressure in the 3180fps range. My barrel has finally sped up here now so I will retest a few powders. As it sits I am
Really liking n160. My node is at 3230 and it’s very consistent.
 

Bobsuruncle

Private
Minuteman
Nov 16, 2020
21
11
Alberta, Canada
I started with R26 in mine but changed over to R23. Nearly the same speeds and more temp stable. I can fill the case and still have no real pressure.
I noticed weird fliers with RL26. Speed was great accuracy was great then every now and again I’d get a wicked flier. Not sure I can blame it entirely but has since disappeared since I switch powders