22lr ELR 600yrd and competition: CZ-475 or something else?

SkepticalTiger

Private
Minuteman
Feb 5, 2022
57
10
Austin,TX
I have a 10/22 tactical model with some pistol grip adjustable stock, 20moa base and primary arms 6x optic. W/ cci velocitor I was able to make hits out to 600yrds today in 100F heat and some pretty bad wind. Out to 500 with mini mag, sv, etc. fairly consistently.

I like how the 10/22 is, and it's still pretty light weight, but I think at this point I'm outshooting it and want to setup a new rig for more precision work. My main interest is ELR and just throwing lead down range at the longest distances I have available which is 600 yards nearby and a little over 1000 in another city so the former is the farthest at the moment.

Optic wise the Athlon series of scopes look good. Still deciding on the base. Being able to zero the optic at 50y (don't care if I am hitting at the lowest / lower part of the reticle) would be great, but 100y min is fine too. The nicer indoor range is 50y max.

The CZ475 seems to fit the bill, but open to other options. I'm not sure which CZ model I should go with yet. I would like to participate in competitions with it, and am on the ball about if I want to qualify for the budget category or the no limit category since most of the time I'll be taking this out to 600y.

Ideally I'd like to keep the whole package (optic, gun, etc) Around $1200, but if there are some upgrades that'll really tighten the groups I'd be fine going up to $2000. Figure if I can get real tight groups and plan to compete upping the budget is fine.
 

AirGunShawn

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 2, 2019
779
332
I use Trijicons for almost everything. 5-50x56s MOAs. They will focus down to 9 yards even at 50 power. That means crystal clear
and edge to edge. They adjust in 1/8 MOA increments which is another thing I have to have. The tool-less zero for elevation and
windage is very nice. Photo #3 is what the target looks like at 50X and at 9 yards.
#5 and ^ show the cap you remove to reset your zero. It also has a zero stop for elevation and a half way stop for the windage.
Both stops can be defeated if you want to. On the reticle you have a subtension scale. The one shown is for the 30X . With my
50X.... the subtensions are at 1:1 at 40 power. In the last photo you will see a square box around the 40 to remind you. That
feature is really handy for any hold over. I only use hold over for windage. It has a red and green reticle also with various powers
settings. I use the large parallax wheels to estimate distance. I'm not allowed a range finder in Field Target. Below a 100 yards,
I can range to about 1 yard of accuracy. 1/2 yard out to 70 yards???
They are nice and B&H photo allows you a 30 day, on the gun test drive period.

Although I would suggest a B14R along with these scopes.... I read your budget last.....
 

Attachments

  • $2000.00 EACH.jpg
    $2000.00 EACH.jpg
    574.7 KB · Views: 53
  • NJR BOTH KNOBS.jpg
    NJR BOTH KNOBS.jpg
    584.4 KB · Views: 58
  • PAPER TEXTURE IN BLACK AREA.jpg
    PAPER TEXTURE IN BLACK AREA.jpg
    229.5 KB · Views: 63
  • 10 YARDS CLAIRITY CHECK.jpg
    10 YARDS CLAIRITY CHECK.jpg
    702.5 KB · Views: 57
  • ZERO CAP 1.jpg
    ZERO CAP 1.jpg
    430.1 KB · Views: 54
  • ZERO CAP 2.jpg
    ZERO CAP 2.jpg
    318.6 KB · Views: 56
  • SCALE IN SCOPE.jpg
    SCALE IN SCOPE.jpg
    297.2 KB · Views: 48
  • 40 POWER 1 TO 1 SCALE.jpg
    40 POWER 1 TO 1 SCALE.jpg
    419.5 KB · Views: 55

Cowpokey

MSgt, USAF Ret
Full Member
Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    I use Trijicons for almost everything. 5-50x56s MOAs. They will focus down to 9 yards even at 50 power. That means crystal clear
    and edge to edge. They adjust in 1/8 MOA increments which is another thing I have to have. The tool-less zero for elevation and
    windage is very nice. Photo #3 is what the target looks like at 50X and at 9 yards.
    #5 and ^ show the cap you remove to reset your zero. It also has a zero stop for elevation and a half way stop for the windage.
    Both stops can be defeated if you want to. On the reticle you have a subtension scale. The one shown is for the 30X . With my
    50X.... the subtensions are at 1:1 at 40 power. In the last photo you will see a square box around the 40 to remind you. That
    feature is really handy for any hold over. I only use hold over for windage. It has a red and green reticle also with various powers
    settings. I use the large parallax wheels to estimate distance. I'm not allowed a range finder in Field Target. Below a 100 yards,
    I can range to about 1 yard of accuracy. 1/2 yard out to 70 yards???
    They are nice and B&H photo allows you a 30 day, on the gun test drive period.

    Although I would suggest a B14R along with these scopes.... I read your budget last.....
    OP put out a desired total budget of $1,200, with the possibility of stretching it to $2,000. So you post up a scope that cost more than allotted?
     

    Milo 2.5

    The Dalai Lama of the Reload
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 7, 2014
    2,966
    2,161
    Gillette, WY
    What constitutes fairly consistent? What size target?
    Legit questions, as I have tried my luck at 600 also. I have a 24" sq, 18" sq, and a 2moa 12" circle gong. My hit ratio is 40% better on the 3 moa target than the 2 moa. Shooting at, or even setting the 24" up makes you feel like an idiot, it is that huge, even though it helps to have it set up.
    I am using diff ammo than you, and feel more than a few bullets are losing stability at 600 with a 16tw barrel.
    My recommendation would be to find a used Tikka, CZ, or Bergara at a good price, and rebarrel to a faster tw right off, even if over budget.

    The difference between 500 & 600 yards with a 22LR is monumental, in terms of success. I have been using a Rim X with a 20" barrel, but I have a 22" Vudoo, new scope here tomorrow for it, will slap a 40 moa base on it and try figure what more I need to max the travel out on it. Then test it at 600, see if my findings are in the ball park.
    Both rifles will get a shot at 700 on a nice day, but I predict, the 18" at 700 is going to be a tough hit. I will need a spotter as I will need around a 12-13 mil holdover.
    Either way, the rifle that doesn't do as well will get a faster tw barrel next winter, I just need to figure what tw I want.
     

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    Cow Poke,

    I started to read the OPs post. He was talking about 600 yards plus and I thought of my scopes. So I wrote about them.
    Then I went back up to see what else he may be looking for and saw his budget of 2K max.

    I could have erased the entire post or let him know that I had read his budget last. That is what I choose to do.
    Didn't you read my entire post?

    I have three CZ 457s that I wish I had never bought. And 5 Athlon scopes. Only the CRONUS and ARES are kind of OK.
    MTR, At-One and a Royal.

    I suggest he see what the ELR guy's are using and make a long term plan to acquire the proper equipment to play that game.
    Then buy it piece at a time if need be.

    MSgt, The Tiger asked some questions and all you offered up is criticism about my little faux pas.
    Congratulations, you made from airman into the senior Non-Commissioned Officer tier.

    OP put out a desired total budget of $1,200, with the possibility of stretching it to $2,000. So you post up a scope that cost more than allotted?
     

    Cowpokey

    MSgt, USAF Ret
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    Read the post to understand rather than to reply, life will be less confusing that way.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: lash

    Cowpokey

    MSgt, USAF Ret
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    MSgt, The Tiger asked some questions and all you offered up is criticism about my little faux pas.
    Congratulations, you made from airman into the senior Non-Commissioned Officer tier.
    Notice how I didn’t suggest OP get a Vudoo and top it with a ZCO? That’s how SNCOs use reading comprehension, even though it would have been the best answer.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: 308pirate and lash

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you I wrote my responce first and then went back and saw his budget. Then I let him know that. Although my information may
    not help him today, It may benifit someone else either now or later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaint added nothing to the
    thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have understood that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. I can see why your an E7 pay grade.
     

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you, I wrote my response first and then went back to look for any oversights and saw his budget. Then I let him know that.
    Although my information may not help him today, It may benefit him or someone else later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaints
    add nothing to the thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have realized that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. It's obvious why your an E7 pay grade. FOOL !
    Do you even own a Vudoo or a ZCO or are you just talking nonsense and making noise?
    This is done.... I have no time to waste on the likes of you. Your nothing and never will be.
     

    Attachments

    • VUDOO V22.JPG
      VUDOO V22.JPG
      325.8 KB · Views: 34

    lash

    Swamp Rat
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 28, 2012
    8,191
    12,218
    63
    Central Florida
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you, I wrote my response first and then went back to look for any oversights and saw his budget. Then I let him know that.
    Although my information may not help him today, It may benefit him or someone else later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaints
    add nothing to the thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have realized that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. It's obvious why your an E7 pay grade. FOOL !
    Do you even own a Vudoo or a ZCO or are you just talking nonsense and making noise?
    This is done.... I have no time to waste on the likes of you. Your nothing and never will be.
    You’re…

    🤣
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: Cowpokey

    Im2bent

    Major Hide Member
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 30, 2020
    2,269
    3,021
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you, I wrote my response first and then went back to look for any oversights and saw his budget. Then I let him know that.
    Although my information may not help him today, It may benefit him or someone else later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaints
    add nothing to the thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have realized that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. It's obvious why your an E7 pay grade. FOOL !
    Do you even own a Vudoo or a ZCO or are you just talking nonsense and making noise?
    This is done.... I have no time to waste on the likes of you. Your nothing and never will be.
    Wow you are quite the elitist douchebag. Tell you what I'll give you a hundred bucks for those 3 crappy 457's you can't stand.
     

    Cowpokey

    MSgt, USAF Ret
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you, I wrote my response first and then went back to look for any oversights and saw his budget. Then I let him know that.
    Although my information may not help him today, It may benefit him or someone else later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaints
    add nothing to the thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have realized that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. It's obvious why your an E7 pay grade. FOOL !
    Do you even own a Vudoo or a ZCO or are you just talking nonsense and making noise?
    This is done.... I have no time to waste on the likes of you. Your nothing and never will be.
    You name call like a spoiled little brat. Grow up. Yes, I own a Vudoo. No, I don't own a ZCO. Since you've already been corrected, I'll leave that alone, I'm nothing and never will be...oh, my feels. Fuck off.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: lash

    FimRire RongLifle

    Sergeant of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 27, 2022
    119
    13
    Florida, USA
    my wife's 10/22 target model with factory bull barrel was able to have fun at ~600 using a vortex diamond back and 20moa rail. however the target was not really IN her scope graduations to get the nearly 35.5 mil she needed on that day at that location. That platform was capable but we lacked enough elev on rail barring more expensive options like adjustable mounts. Compared to her I cheated some i used a cz455 with a mk5 and 30 moa rail under. I was able to dial and still have enough reticle with an h-59 :) to hit when wind didnt hand me my hat...which was most of the time.....

    I think any capable platform with a good barrel and good ammo will be acceptable. The CZs have sources for some increased MOA rails, for example i happen to have a 55moa rail but I am not using it as it needed 4.2 mil hold under when paired with a vortex diamondback. I think for many good price point scopes 40-45MOA rail is a good magic number for having a 50 yard on zero and still having good crank available.

    I find 450 or so and under is not bad to attain with most equipment combos to be 'in glass somehow' the 500 and especially to 600 gets a bit more challenging where larger scope tubes or some variation in mount options like ertac or iveys (both add cost but less so then a scope) create opps to add alot of elevation.
    at 500-600 i dont notice much in hit success ratio differences between people who know their system as a shooting platform, where not having practice and dope with a system it rapidly goes toward zero percent. I am supposing concentrating on the adjustment ranges and optic goals you have first most will lend more sucess with good ammo and platform match over increased spend on platform.

    I have not had luck with high velocity ammo consistency wise compared to match ammo, the transonic threshold comes quickly and never gave me the consistency I hoped for but i know all rifles have different favorites.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: lash

    StillerT30Hammer

    Private
    Minuteman
    Mar 21, 2022
    29
    8
    North west ga
    You stupid Zoomie, Plebe even, WTF !!

    I told you, I wrote my response first and then went back to look for any oversights and saw his budget. Then I let him know that.
    Although my information may not help him today, It may benefit him or someone else later. Your F-ing petty observation and complaints
    add nothing to the thread and never will. " Read the post to understand rather than to reply "
    Sounds like you have taken Stephen Covey and his 7 habits a little too far. Had you taken your own advice and read my post for
    it's meaning, you would have realized that I was telling you to go have sex with yourself!
    What are you, the self appointed post police. It's obvious why your an E7 pay grade. FOOL !
    Do you even own a Vudoo or a ZCO or are you just talking nonsense and making noise?
    This is done.... I have no time to waste on the likes of you. Your nothing and never will be.
    Wow, you’re a major entitled dick.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Cowpokey and lash

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    Tiger,
    I highly recommend that you send your gun out for lot testing. If you purchase a certain amount of ammo from Lapua they
    will waive the testing fee completely. They put your action in a fixture and shoot 8 / 15 lots of ammo. It is done inside away
    from any external influences. They shoot 50 and 100 meters simultaneously. They will show you the shot dispersion and
    suggest the best ammo. The documentation they provide is very simple to interpret. Ultimately the ammo choice is yours.
    It virtually eliminates the questions like is it you, the wind, the ammo, the heat on the barrel, trigger snatching etc. As of
    yesterday, Center X was 185.00 a brick on Gun Broker. At my last check, Lapus was selling bricks for 130.00 I know buying a case
    for $1300.00 is like a kick to the nuts, I feel ultimately it will save you money and range time. I always buy enough to have them
    waive the fee. So if all you consider is the ammo cost, it is actually cheaper to buy it from Lapua. They will not sell it to
    you without a rifle for testing. At least they would not a year ago. The savings of about $400.00 can be used for better things.
    Additionally, I have found tested ammo tends to work better in all of my guns. It's almost as if my rifle found the best lot of ammo.
    I have never found Midas + to out perform Center X in any of my guns that went for testing. Slightly worse actually.
     

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    2 Bent,

    You like the 457 because you have them and are defending them. I'm simply being honest. The most accurate gun I own by far is a 1971
    Anschutz 54 Match. When I talk about the Vudoo, I say it's a piece of wonderful machining. Because it is. What I rarely say is I sold mine
    back to Vudoo for lack of performance. I had initial concerns and they were never resolved. Pual said to send it all back. Do you want me
    to lie or give someone bad advice? The best of the CZs is the At-One and it shoots on par with the V22. I like the MTR best but it has cold
    bore issues. A fellow shooter used to be a sniper and his exabits the same characteristics.
    Thats right... $475 CZ shoots like the $3300.00 V22. I told Vudoo that I have 9 other cheap guns that shoot as well as the Gen 1.
    "elitist".... your making that judgement based on a couple of posts on this thread where I'm questioning if Cow-Pokerer even owns the
    product he is blabbing about. On the other hand, I do tend to buy myself nicer toy's. I deserve them.
     

    acudaowner

    Two Star General
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Dec 26, 2018
    7,144
    5,453
    yes you have to over spend on all the best over priced gear the world has to offer , cause barbie requires all shiny new matching items to do anything .lol
     
    • Like
    • Haha
    Reactions: 6.5SH and Cowpokey

    Cowpokey

    MSgt, USAF Ret
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    "elitist".... your making that judgement based on a couple of posts on this thread where I'm questioning if Cow-Pokerer even owns the
    product he is blabbing about. On the other hand, I do tend to buy myself nicer toy's. I deserve them.
    Again with the name calling, you really are immature. Mommy and daddy must have bought you all the best toys. Saying a $475 CZ is equal to a V22 is not accurate, or everyone would buy the CZ. Why is it that all of the top CZ shooters spend Vudoo money upgrading them to compete?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Badjujuu

    AirGunShawn

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Apr 2, 2019
    779
    332
    Cow,

    Would you prefer I use profanity like you do?
    I said the accuracy of MY particular At-One is on par with my V22. The V22 had lot tested ammo and the ammo I used
    in the AT-One was the V22s ammo.
    Simply as a matter of fact... with 8 children in my family, I was allowed to buy what I could pay for. They simply didn't
    have a bunch of spare cash. Again.... You have no idea what you're talking about..... your babbling! Your a person of limited intellect.
    You follow others like a sheep. You have made the full circle back to Plebe.
    If a rifle doesn't shoot well, I put it aside or sell it. You can never get your money back out
    of a Frankin-gun. Why would you spend Vudoo money to cobble together a POS that you're just putting parts together in
    the hopes that it will work? How stupid is that!
     

    b6graham

    MMPRL
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Jul 29, 2014
    6,868
    5,862
    Colorado
    Cow,

    Would you prefer I use profanity like you do?
    I said the accuracy of MY particular At-One is on par with my V22. The V22 had lot tested ammo and the ammo I used
    in the AT-One was the V22s ammo.
    Simply as a matter of fact... with 8 children in my family, I was allowed to buy what I could pay for. They simply didn't
    have a bunch of spare cash. Again.... You have no idea what you're talking about..... your babbling! Your a person of limited intellect.
    You follow others like a sheep. You have made the full circle back to Plebe.
    If a rifle doesn't shoot well, I put it aside or sell it. You can never get your money back out
    of a Frankin-gun. Why would you spend Vudoo money to cobble together a POS that you're just putting parts together in
    the hopes that it will work? How stupid is that!
    with the amount of garbage coming out of your mouth i'm amazed you've lasted 3 years here

    to the OP
    if you're consistently making good impacts on small targets with what most people here would call mediocre at best ammo then you don't need a new gun, maybe just a nicer scope
     

    Cowpokey

    MSgt, USAF Ret
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • May 1, 2020
    1,847
    6,406
    Bel Air, MD
    Cow,

    Would you prefer I use profanity like you do?
    I said the accuracy of MY particular At-One is on par with my V22. The V22 had lot tested ammo and the ammo I used
    in the AT-One was the V22s ammo.
    Simply as a matter of fact... with 8 children in my family, I was allowed to buy what I could pay for. They simply didn't
    have a bunch of spare cash. Again.... You have no idea what you're talking about..... your babbling! Your a person of limited intellect.
    You follow others like a sheep. You have made the full circle back to Plebe.
    If a rifle doesn't shoot well, I put it aside or sell it. You can never get your money back out
    of a Frankin-gun. Why would you spend Vudoo money to cobble together a POS that you're just putting parts together in
    the hopes that it will work? How stupid is that!
    You sure think highly of yourself, it’s a shame nobody else here does. Be gone brat.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: b6graham

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    20,648
    31,378
    Cow,

    Would you prefer I use profanity like you do?
    I said the accuracy of MY particular At-One is on par with my V22. The V22 had lot tested ammo and the ammo I used
    in the AT-One was the V22s ammo.
    Simply as a matter of fact... with 8 children in my family, I was allowed to buy what I could pay for. They simply didn't
    have a bunch of spare cash. Again.... You have no idea what you're talking about..... your babbling! Your a person of limited intellect.
    You follow others like a sheep. You have made the full circle back to Plebe.
    If a rifle doesn't shoot well, I put it aside or sell it. You can never get your money back out
    of a Frankin-gun. Why would you spend Vudoo money to cobble together a POS that you're just putting parts together in
    the hopes that it will work? How stupid is that!

    tenor.gif
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    I use Trijicons for almost everything. 5-50x56s MOAs. They will focus down to 9 yards even at 50 power. That means crystal clear
    and edge to edge. They adjust in 1/8 MOA increments which is another thing I have to have. The tool-less zero for elevation and
    windage is very nice. Photo #3 is what the target looks like at 50X and at 9 yards.
    #5 and ^ show the cap you remove to reset your zero. It also has a zero stop for elevation and a half way stop for the windage.
    Both stops can be defeated if you want to. On the reticle you have a subtension scale. The one shown is for the 30X . With my
    50X.... the subtensions are at 1:1 at 40 power. In the last photo you will see a square box around the 40 to remind you. That
    feature is really handy for any hold over. I only use hold over for windage. It has a red and green reticle also with various powers
    settings. I use the large parallax wheels to estimate distance. I'm not allowed a range finder in Field Target. Below a 100 yards,
    I can range to about 1 yard of accuracy. 1/2 yard out to 70 yards???
    They are nice and B&H photo allows you a 30 day, on the gun test drive period.

    Although I would suggest a B14R along with these scopes.... I read your budget last.....
    Actually looking at the B14R it looks like a better long term option since I do plan on getting a proper centerfire short action for more ELR shooting. I reckon if I go long action it won't be a 700 footprint. Likely something a bit more $$$
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    What constitutes fairly consistent? What size target?
    Legit questions, as I have tried my luck at 600 also. I have a 24" sq, 18" sq, and a 2moa 12" circle gong. My hit ratio is 40% better on the 3 moa target than the 2 moa. Shooting at, or even setting the 24" up makes you feel like an idiot, it is that huge, even though it helps to have it set up.
    I am using diff ammo than you, and feel more than a few bullets are losing stability at 600 with a 16tw barrel.
    My recommendation would be to find a used Tikka, CZ, or Bergara at a good price, and rebarrel to a faster tw right off, even if over budget.

    The difference between 500 & 600 yards with a 22LR is monumental, in terms of success. I have been using a Rim X with a 20" barrel, but I have a 22" Vudoo, new scope here tomorrow for it, will slap a 40 moa base on it and try figure what more I need to max the travel out on it. Then test it at 600, see if my findings are in the ball park.
    Both rifles will get a shot at 700 on a nice day, but I predict, the 18" at 700 is going to be a tough hit. I will need a spotter as I will need around a 12-13 mil holdover.
    Either way, the rifle that doesn't do as well will get a faster tw barrel next winter, I just need to figure what tw I want.
    Mainly tight groups at 100 yards over 30 round strings. My 10/22 if the wind is right and I load it one by one into the chamber is capable of 1.25 3 shot groups, sometimes I get around 1in, but again, using cheap inconsistent ammo. Appreciate the advice!
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    Tiger,
    I highly recommend that you send your gun out for lot testing. If you purchase a certain amount of ammo from Lapua they
    will waive the testing fee completely. They put your action in a fixture and shoot 8 / 15 lots of ammo. It is done inside away
    from any external influences. They shoot 50 and 100 meters simultaneously. They will show you the shot dispersion and
    suggest the best ammo. The documentation they provide is very simple to interpret. Ultimately the ammo choice is yours.
    It virtually eliminates the questions like is it you, the wind, the ammo, the heat on the barrel, trigger snatching etc. As of
    yesterday, Center X was 185.00 a brick on Gun Broker. At my last check, Lapus was selling bricks for 130.00 I know buying a case
    for $1300.00 is like a kick to the nuts, I feel ultimately it will save you money and range time. I always buy enough to have them
    waive the fee. So if all you consider is the ammo cost, it is actually cheaper to buy it from Lapua. They will not sell it to
    you without a rifle for testing. At least they would not a year ago. The savings of about $400.00 can be used for better things.
    Additionally, I have found tested ammo tends to work better in all of my guns. It's almost as if my rifle found the best lot of ammo.
    I have never found Midas + to out perform Center X in any of my guns that went for testing. Slightly worse actually.
    I have considered this actually, but would do so if I erred on the side of maybe having a secondary 10/22 action and heavier match barrel first. Seems a bit of a waste, but still worth it for my intended use to send in the rifle as is. Solid advice about putting the $400 elsewhere.
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    my wife's 10/22 target model with factory bull barrel was able to have fun at ~600 using a vortex diamond back and 20moa rail. however the target was not really IN her scope graduations to get the nearly 35.5 mil she needed on that day at that location. That platform was capable but we lacked enough elev on rail barring more expensive options like adjustable mounts. Compared to her I cheated some i used a cz455 with a mk5 and 30 moa rail under. I was able to dial and still have enough reticle with an h-59 :) to hit when wind didnt hand me my hat...which was most of the time.....

    I think any capable platform with a good barrel and good ammo will be acceptable. The CZs have sources for some increased MOA rails, for example i happen to have a 55moa rail but I am not using it as it needed 4.2 mil hold under when paired with a vortex diamondback. I think for many good price point scopes 40-45MOA rail is a good magic number for having a 50 yard on zero and still having good crank available.

    I find 450 or so and under is not bad to attain with most equipment combos to be 'in glass somehow' the 500 and especially to 600 gets a bit more challenging where larger scope tubes or some variation in mount options like ertac or iveys (both add cost but less so then a scope) create opps to add alot of elevation.
    at 500-600 i dont notice much in hit success ratio differences between people who know their system as a shooting platform, where not having practice and dope with a system it rapidly goes toward zero percent. I am supposing concentrating on the adjustment ranges and optic goals you have first most will lend more sucess with good ammo and platform match over increased spend on platform.

    I have not had luck with high velocity ammo consistency wise compared to match ammo, the transonic threshold comes quickly and never gave me the consistency I hoped for but i know all rifles have different favorites.
    That's about what I have to do, literally at 600 the target is on the edge of the optic and with the way the wind blows use an imaginary vertical line where the range estimation mark is. I'll try to post some pictures this weekend. At least for my rifle the velocitor was doing quite fine and with the scope I have atm low velocity won't work. Hell I even got a couple hits with Federal Punch at 400 I think lol.
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    Also part of why I'm looking to keep this within a certain budget is that I didn't expect to even make it to 400 let alone 600 initially with my setup. It's an old 10/22 tactical I rarely clean the barrel and have more high round count plinking sessions than slow rof. At the range I go to people use very expensive 22lr setups and only go out to 300 max.

    I figured to have some fun and just see what I could do with standard ammo, got to 300 fairly consistently if the wind was right, got bored and extended further. Rinse and repeat and now 600 is my max while 500 I'm having fun with and when I do miss it's usually a few inches or just left/right of the target so I'm close it's just my wind calls that need work.

    At the end of the day not saying expensive setups aren't worth it, in fact I'd love to drop a few thousand on the really nice competition 22lr rifles since the ones I've handled are works of art, I'm just trying to get an idea of a more precision build that's sorta this midway between ultra competition grade and what I have at the moment. It's to the point where I'm curious how well I can do with a properly built rifle and an adjustable Williams style peep sight or some custom setup like you see on the sharps rifles. Sure it's not practical, but I find it quite fun and challenging.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: Milo 2.5

    Milo 2.5

    The Dalai Lama of the Reload
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 7, 2014
    2,966
    2,161
    Gillette, WY
    I have considered this actually, but would do so if I erred on the side of maybe having a secondary 10/22 action and heavier match barrel first. Seems a bit of a waste, but still worth it for my intended use to send in the rifle as is. Solid advice about putting the $400 elsewhere.
    Not trying to change your mind here, but I tricked out a 10-22 about 8 yrs ago, kidd trigger, Titan stock, neither did much for accuracy, but it did bring the stock closer to what i was accustomed to. Gains were made by buying a Green Mtn target barrel for 150 bucks, with Norma tac 22, all that was readily available at the time, or my cost ceiling, it improved accuracy by 40%. By all accounts, at 400 it was a reasonably accurate setup in low wind, but by 500 things spiraled downhill.
    Have to say, you have way more patience than I do by single feeding a 10-22.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: SkepticalTiger

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    Not trying to change your mind here, but I tricked out a 10-22 about 8 yrs ago, kidd trigger, Titan stock, neither did much for accuracy, but it did bring the stock closer to what i was accustomed to. Gains were made by buying a Green Mtn target barrel for 150 bucks, with Norma tac 22, all that was readily available at the time, or my cost ceiling, it improved accuracy by 40%. By all accounts, at 400 it was a reasonably accurate setup in low wind, but by 500 things spiraled downhill.
    Have to say, you have way more patience than I do by single feeding a 12-22.
    It's actually pretty easy, but a bit of a chore at times.
    1. Insert an empty magazine - I use a BX10
    2. Lock the bolt back (requires the bolt catch mod)
    3. Grab 1 round, and what you're trying to do is angle it where the tip is partially in the chamber with your index.
    4a. Use your index, thumb or whatever to push it the rest of the way in - I use my pinky because my thick fingers get roughed up by the ejection port
    4b. Alternatively you could place the round on the magazine sorta like how it sits before you push it into the magazine
    5. Release the bolt, not slingshot but riding it forward.

    You're effectively just trying to make sure the cartridge isn't damaged on it's way into the barrel. I'm thinking of a little tool to help make this easier too. I've noticed I get tighter groups, it keeps cadence low (good for sporter barrel heat), and is good practice, for me, in cheek weld.
     

    Milo 2.5

    The Dalai Lama of the Reload
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 7, 2014
    2,966
    2,161
    Gillette, WY
    It's actually pretty easy, but a bit of a chore at times.
    1. Insert an empty magazine - I use a BX10
    2. Lock the bolt back (requires the bolt catch mod)
    3. Grab 1 round, and what you're trying to do is angle it where the tip is partially in the chamber with your index.
    4a. Use your index, thumb or whatever to push it the rest of the way in - I use my pinky because my thick fingers get roughed up by the ejection port
    4b. Alternatively you could place the round on the magazine sorta like how it sits before you push it into the magazine
    5. Release the bolt, not slingshot but riding it forward.

    You're effectively just trying to make sure the cartridge isn't damaged on it's way into the barrel. I'm thinking of a little tool to help make this easier too. I've noticed I get tighter groups, it keeps cadence low (good for sporter barrel heat), and is good practice, for me, in cheek weld.
    Lol, my goal is to go to my grave w/o attempting it, have fun!
     

    SkepticalTiger

    Private
    Minuteman
    Feb 5, 2022
    57
    10
    Austin,TX
    Hey people, here are some pics of my holds, turrets maxed out too. What's funny is I recall not too long ago I thought the hold at 500 was difficult, but looking at these side by side it's actually quite easy in comparison haha.