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.260 Pros/Cons?

P

phightower

Private
Minuteman
Apr 15, 2011
36
0
48
North Florida
Can anybody clear up a few things in regards to the .260 for me?

1. Isn't the .260 the exact middle caliber between the .223 and .308?

2. If so, why isn't as popular as the .243 or .270?

(I realize there's chicken/egg (rifle/bullet) component the this question, so mainly I'm just asking based on the overall reasons i.e. recoil, power, weight, velocity, etc.)
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

- I'm wondering if you aren't confounding bullet "caliber" with "cartridge" (ie, the .308 Winchester cartridge is not the same thing as a .308 caliber bullet).

- The .260 Remington cartridge (which is extremely popular with tactical shooters, I might add) actually uses a .264 caliber projectile, aka 6.5mm -- I think you will find there are quite a few pretty popular cartridges that use that caliber projectile.

- I think the .243 Win and .308 Win cartridges do have quite a bit of "mainstream" popularity (as in, you can walk into a gun shop and fund a bunch of rifles chambered for those cartridges) for different reasons -- .308 probably because of the 7.62x51 NATO connection (and because it is a very versatile cartridge that can handle most if not all big game in North America), .243 because it happens to be a nice light cartridge for small deer and coyotes and the like.



 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

When considering suitable bullet weight for a given bullet diameter...you wind up with a basic form factor available for the bullet.

Turns out 6.5mm bullets are very efficient in regards to their weight and length - arguably more efficient than most other small arms calibers. Certainly better than 7.62mm bullets, of "reasonable" cartrigde size.

This means that "reasonable" 6.5mm cartridges tend to have excellent velocity, awesome BCs, and are very moderate to shoot. Makes for a really well-rounded and useful cartridge. Really, the only drawback to them is they tend to eat barrels more quickly than other calibers.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

In our area the 260 is second in poularity only to the 308 for tactical shooting. A great 1K cartridge!
As far as a hunting round the 243 and 308 have a 30-40 year head start on the 260, so that might explain that end of the spectrum.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As far as a hunting round the 243 and 308 have a 30-40 year head start on the 260, so that might explain that end of the spectrum. </div></div>

Yeah, good point
smile.gif
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<span style="color: #FF0000">"I'm wondering if you aren't confounding bullet "caliber" with "cartridge" (ie, the .308 Winchester cartridge is not the same thing as a .308 caliber bullet)."</span>

I probably am, numbers aren't my strength. Never the less... your insight helps.

BTW... I own a .243 and think its perfect. Just wondering mainly because Remington had a .260 but discontinued it within like 2 years...
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Exterior ballisitics of a .260 Remingotn are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Exterior ballistics of a .260 Remington are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat II</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exterior ballistics of a .260 Remington are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.</div></div>

Not even close, try again.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phightower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...why isn't as popular as the .243 or .270?</div></div>Popularity is overrated.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat II</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exterior ballistics of a .260 Remington are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.</div></div>

Not even close, try again. </div></div>

I'm confused by your response. I'd have to say I agree with Pat II.

The 300WM pushing 190's is not quite going to keep up with a .260 with 140 class bullets.

The 300WM with 208/210's will *slightly* outperform the .260 in ballistics to 1500 yds. with a growing advantage past that distance.

Where the 300WM *really* shines is downrange energy. NO COMPARISON. My 300WM at 2000 yds. has roughly the same velocity and energy as a 10mm Auto at muzzle.

John
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pat II</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exterior ballistics of a .260 Remington are close/same to a .300 Win Mag. It does not deliver the same energy downrange.</div></div>

Not even close, try again. </div></div>

I'm confused by your response. I'd have to say I agree with Pat II.

The 300WM pushing 190's is not quite going to keep up with a .260 with 140 class bullets.

The 300WM with 208/210's will *slightly* outperform the .260 in ballistics to 1500 yds. with a growing advantage past that distance.

Where the 300WM *really* shines is downrange energy. NO COMPARISON. My 300WM at 2000 yds. has roughly the same velocity and energy as a 10mm Auto at muzzle.

John
</div></div>

Please show the numbers. Having an GAP AR 260 that shoots 139s at 2800 I'm sure it doesn't even come close to my A191 shooting the 190smk at 3050.

I'm leaving downrange energy out of it. Let's talk elevation and wind.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I haven't run these numbers in a while (I shoot 208's primarily)... closer than I remembered...

A191 in my rifle at 3500' ASL (3000fps):

1000 7.1 mil
1500 15.0
2000 28.2

142's @ 2850 fps

1000 7.6
1500 15.4
2000 28.1

142 SMK has a 6% wind advantage.

John

 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

two things wrong with your calculator.

First, run them at sea level. I can shoot 168s to 1200 yards if you put me high enough.

Second, although YOUR 260 may shoot 2850, that's the exception rather than the norm.

260 @ 2800
300WM @ 3050

At Sea Level
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Yeah... I'd still call that close/same. Certainly not different enough to warrant your response. Not like comparing a .308 and a 300WM. Oh, and it reminds me why I never want to live at sea level again.
wink.gif

John
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

My 260 was shooting about 2850 pretty easily, the gasser is where you are losing alot of your speed Mike.

with the 140s and 190s kickin along at 2850/3000 respectively there is hardly much difference.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HDC-Deadly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 260 was shooting about 2850 pretty easily, the gasser is where you are losing alot of your speed Mike.

with the 140s and 190s kickin along at 2850/3000 respectively there is hardly much difference. </div></div>

the two other bolt 260s got pressure over 2800. So if we're going to talk the exceptions to the rule, then we'll take the 300wm to 3070-3100

But alas, I'm done. Shoot your flat 260.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

What 2 other bolt 260's? Mine never showed any signs of pressure at 2850, the only thing limiting my powder charge was case capacity.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I've had 2 GAP 260s I competed with prior to my GAP 243. I sold them years ago.

One was built on a Rem700 with a 24" Rock, the other was built on a Surgeon and was 24" and it was a Bartlein or maybe an Oby, can't remember. The surgeon was in an AICS and started my thumbhole fetish.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

The only "con" on the .260 is the American's don't like 6.5mm rounds. In Europe they love the 6.5s, but here, they've always had a "ho-hum" response. In fact, that's pretty much the American response to every metric caliber that isn't 7mm. Which is kind of weird because the reason we like the 7mm is the same reasons that we should like the 6.5s. Efficient, excellent bullets with high B.C.s, lighter recoil, flatter shooting. All "pro" from where I sit.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Additionally, 300 WM requires nearly twice the propellant, and produces appreciably more recoil than 260.

A starter oughta go 260 (or other .264" or 284" rifle caliber) or 308Win. Shoot it for two years, minimum two weekends monthly, 50 deliberatly fired rounds a weekend, not more than ten rounds without cooling the barrel during which time the shooter will possibly improve his or her marksmanship, knowledge of ballistics and evolve in the sport, discovering which caliber, bullet and combination of components one suspects or finds pleasing.

Now shooter will have grown accustomed to the rig to the nth degree. Choose to keep shooting it, or use the old barrel for a trot-line weight. Ask Roscoe to chamber a new one in the caliber shooter has decided floats his duck. He's used to the rig already.

Or....get a 243 WSSM AR15 or bolt rifle and run 108 Bergers, or 6XC AR10 and run 115's, or go on and have Lloyd DeSantis at RND custom build an AR in 7WSM running 180 vld/s and never look back.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 260 is what a 308 should be. Bucks the wind better, less recoil, now great components readily available. It's a do-all cartridge. </div></div>

This exactly.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

My 260 running 130 Bergers at 2,950 fps
7.7 mils to 1k

139 Scenars at 2,830
8.4 mils to 1k

300WM running 190 SMK's at 3050 fps
7.4 mils to 1k
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I'm going to go out on a limb here, to say that there's nothing a .260 can do that a .284 with 180's at 2850fps can't do better.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I only have one 260 but my 22.5" barrel(bartlien) didn't show pressure till 2900-2930. This was with lapua 139s, h4350 at 44.7-45 grains. With that said it should get 123s over 3000, we will see with testing.
btw- these velocities were from a oehler 35p
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I only have one 260 but my 22.5" barrel(bartlien) didn't show pressure till 2900-2930. This was with lapua 139s, h4350 at 44.7-45 grains. With that said it should get 123s over 3000, we will see with testing.
btw- these velocities were from a oehler 35p </div></div>

Welll, hellllll....I am running the 123 Scenar @ 3015fps for a 10 shot string over my Oehler 35P using 39gr of RL15 and a bit of room to go pressure wise(need to try RL17 for giggles) in my 6.5x47L. Accuracy is sub .5moa amd SD was single digit. However......I am using a 9.1 twist Oby barrel @ 28".
smile.gif
Need to try the 130 Bergers and 139Lap also for the ell of it.

Just wanted to get in on the pissin match....just because.lol
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to go out on a limb here, to say that there's nothing a .260 can do that a .284 with 180's at 2850fps can't do better. </div></div>

No doubt, but doesn't a .284 require a long action to get that kind of performace though? I think one of the .260s advantages is that its a short action round.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Short action and barrel life. but if you are going down that road, why stop there? there is nothing a 284 can do that a 6.5-284 cant, then there is nothing the 6.5-284 can do that the 6-284 cant do etc etc...barrel life is expendable right?? well, to a point

for me, even though a 260 is in the works, it is just tough to beat the venerable 308 for the "whole package." ie barrel life, ballistics, recoil, availability, ease of reloading for, value etc etc...

yes, I am very excited for my 260 build (wailting on my TAC30 from the group buy, just sent the funds on a brux barrel), I know it will easily outperform my 308, but I will, and think everyone should, always keep a 308 around. Im just glad this hasn't turned into a 260,6.5x47,6.5CM argument...

Regards
DT
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Additionally, 300 WM requires nearly twice the propellant, and produces appreciably more recoil than 260.
</div></div>

Which has more to do with throwing a bigger bullet faster downrange with more kinetic energy. All of which is irrelevant unless that energy is needed.

And recoil can EASILY be tamed via a couple of different options.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phightower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anybody clear up a few things in regards to the .260 for me?

1. Isn't the .260 the exact middle caliber between the .223 and .308?

2. If so, why isn't as popular as the .243 or .270?

(I realize there's chicken/egg (rifle/bullet) component the this question, so mainly I'm just asking based on the overall reasons i.e. recoil, power, weight, velocity, etc.) </div></div>

Forget all the hens picking apart each others favorite calibers. Your answers are:

1) .223 / .243 / .25 / <span style="font-weight: bold">.264</span> / .270 / .284 / .308
Yes, the .260 is the "exact" middle caliber between .223 and .308

2) Marketing, promotion and timing. Remington probably saw a large number of 6.5mm wildcats and thought they might be able to make a factory cartridge but didn't really advertise/promote the cartridge expecting the shooters to spread the word. But it didn't happen. Therefore, it became the pet cartridge of small niche shooters likes us after the original discontinuation.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I built a .243 & .260, though shooting a deer w/95 or 105grainer and less recoil keeps me reaching for the .243 more often.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

To the OP,

To help wrap your head around the .260 a little more. The .260 is simply a .308 necked down to .264.

IMO, the .260 is all pro and no con. Dang near the perfect chambering. It isn't an accident that it is popular.

Don't get wrapped up in short barrel life either. People tend to think about barrel life of a given caliber in comparison with a .308's, which is always quoted as 10,000 plus rounds. I don't doubt that figure, but i know most people just don't shoot enough where they should be concerned about it.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

The 260 has alot going for it: flat shooting, low recoil, short action compatible, decent barrel life.

Only downside is that its a reloading proposal for most practical purposes. If you reload, no problem. If you expect to saunter into your local gunshop and buy a couple of boxes match grade ammo, forget about it.

Since most everybody who shoots this sport ends up reloading, its a great cartridge.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

phightower, while reloading is the way to go for best velocity SouthWest ammo on the hide can supply you with great ammo for 27.00 a box. If you have any questions on their ammo shoot me a pm and I'll try to help.
Rthur
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Good thread, I learned a few things and I just happened to click on the thread, thanks!
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

the 260 is a great rifle loony round, however its likely not that great of a round for your average joe. most guys are only shooting from 1-300 yards hunting and the flatter shooting 270 win pushing a 130 in excess of 3100 fps sounds ALOT better than pushing a 140 to 2700 hundred something.

the 260 hasn't caught on more because you have to understand and have a need to shoot long range to realize its benefits. to me the 308 is boring and outdated. many think because the military uses it, its the best. I think 6.5's and even 6mm rounds outclass the 308 in nearly every regard.

if you think the 300 mag is so big and bad try seeing what a mag case does with a 6.5 vld, it will walk the 300 mag.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

Here is something to think about.
I have put about 2,000 rounds of .308 down range and had dreams of building a 260,,,,that is until I shot one at 650 yards. I wasn't impressed with the splash on target, as I am used to the sound and hit the 175grn SMK makes.
I had researched the 7mm08 years ago but let it fall to the side with the hype of the 260.
A friend of mine (Team-send-it) reminded me of this cartridge and after running the ballistics of the 7mm08 against the 260, using average speeds found in the reloading section, the 7mm08 was a winner past 700 yards in wind deflection, and enegry because it is pushing a 162grn bullet vs a 140grn.
I sent my Barreled action off yesterday for a new tube in 7mm08. Again, just something to think about.
SScott
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

I have or have had them all and shot them in comps. My favorite out of all of them is the 6.5x284. Its the most "Consistantly" accurate round I have ever owned other than a PPC or BR.

I started off shooting the 308s for comps them went to the 300WM and after a couple of barrels and neck surgery I had to give up the 300WMs so I went to the 260s when it first came out. after a couple of them I went to the 6.5x284s I loved the 6.5x284 for tactical shooting but it was just two hard on barrels.

I tried the 6XC and the 243s but barrel life wasn't all that good either and even though they look good on paper they don't shoot as well in the wind as the heavier bullets.

I still have and shoot the 260 and 308 but built a 6.5x55 and push it at around 2850+ trying to get better barrel life than my 260s by using slower burning powders. (Jury is still out on this) I am now in the process of trying out a 284 but since I don't compete anymore it probably won't be a fair test as far as barrel life goes.

Mike,
I have always respected your opinions but I agree with PatII as far as the 260s and the 300WMs being close. Yes, you can push the 190s to 3000fps but I always found the best accuracy node in the 2850 to 2900 range depending on the rifle. When I started shooting the 300WMs I talked to several 1000yd shooters and that was the load data they gave me for accuracy and consistancy. When I started shooting the 260s with the 140s my wind and comeups were nearly identical to my old 300WM data.

I know guys who claim 2900+ out of 140s but like you I can't get it and if I did my brass was junk. I pushed mine in the 2750+ range when shooting 140s but have gone to the 123s now in the 260s and love them.All the above mentioned rounds are great rounds and fun to shoot.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is something to think about.
I have put about 2,000 rounds of .308 down range and had dreams of building a 260,,,,that is until I shot one at 650 yards. I wasn't impressed with the splash on target, as I am used to the sound and hit the 175grn SMK makes.
I had researched the 7mm08 years ago but let it fall to the side with the hype of the 260.
A friend of mine (Team-send-it) reminded me of this cartridge and after running the ballistics of the 7mm08 against the 260, using average speeds found in the reloading section, the 7mm08 was a winner past 700 yards in wind deflection, and enegry because it is pushing a 162grn bullet vs a 140grn.
I sent my Barreled action off yesterday for a new tube in 7mm08. Again, just something to think about.
SScott </div></div>
The 7mm-08 is the winner in wind deflection past 700 yards.... What about trajectory and wind deflection everywhere else? All these rounds have their niche. To say one is better really depends on the situation.
I love both the .260 and the 7-08. Even though Im a big .260 fan I cant totally agree when people say the .260 is what the .308 should be. .308 has its place too.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is something to think about.
I have put about 2,000 rounds of .308 down range and had dreams of building a 260,,,,that is until I shot one at 650 yards. I wasn't impressed with the splash on target, as I am used to the sound and hit the 175grn SMK makes.
I had researched the 7mm08 years ago but let it fall to the side with the hype of the 260.
A friend of mine (Team-send-it) reminded me of this cartridge and after running the ballistics of the 7mm08 against the 260, using average speeds found in the reloading section, the 7mm08 was a winner past 700 yards in wind deflection, and enegry because it is pushing a 162grn bullet vs a 140grn.
I sent my Barreled action off yesterday for a new tube in 7mm08. Again, just something to think about.
SScott </div></div>

I don't shoot many 175smk's anymore but my 260/139 combo always hit harder than the 175's at long range. IMO comparing the clang between two calibers is useless, especially when one is so completely destroying the other in drop and drift.

7-08 is no doubt a great caliber, but picking it over the .260 because of it's better performance is just splitting hairs. The performance is so close that it is meaningless. When I make the same comparisons as you, the .260 wins. Really comes down to bullet choice and actual velocities obtained.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

You need to check your ballistics. If memory serves me correctly a 139 or 140Mk hits harder at a 1000yds out of a 260 than a 175 does out of a 308.

I am sure you will be happy with your 7mm-08 but you need to remember that you won't be pushing the big bullets very fast in real life. To gain any ballistic advantage you need to push them to a certain speed. This speed is not always where the rifle, bullet combination will shoot the best.I had a good friend who built a 7MM-08imp and he could not get the accuracy out of it if he pushed it very hard. His best load was about the same as a regular 7MM-08 so he didn't gain much.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

It appears that it all comes down to opinion but I appreciate them all.

I didn't mention before that I only own one rifle... a Rem 700 in .308. I went with it because I prefer less recoil than the 30-06 and never shoot past 300yrds. I shot a few deer with a .223 and found it to be "less humane".

Shot placement was TOO important.

Thus why I was interested in a happy medium.

Thanks for all the insight though! Quite a few aspects I didn't have a clue about.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: raptor99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to check your ballistics. If memory serves me correctly a 139 or 140Mk hits harder at a 1000yds out of a 260 than a 175 does out of a 308.

I am sure you will be happy with your 7mm-08 but you need to remember that you won't be pushing the big bullets very fast in real life. To gain any ballistic advantage you need to push them to a certain speed. This speed is not always where the rifle, bullet combination will shoot the best.I had a good friend who built a 7MM-08imp and he could not get the accuracy out of it if he pushed it very hard. His best load was about the same as a regular 7MM-08 so he didn't gain much. </div></div>

I'm not trying to shit on this thread, but just add information for the OP and the arm chair quarterbacks.
I ran these numbers using Sierra Infinity V6 program and average Velocities from the reloading section. I am getting my rifle rebareled, so at this point it is speculation until I can get it to the range. Here is the data, if you see it another way, run the numbers.
SScott

<span style="font-weight: bold">.308 </span>175grn SMk
2726 fps
10 mph wind
@700 yards
1074fpe
38.4" wind drift
131" drop

@1,000 yards
674 fpe
87.7 wind drift
349" drop


<span style="font-weight: bold">260</span> 140grn A-max
2825 fps
10 mph wind
@700 yards
1052 fpe
31.4 wind drift
114" drop

@1,000 yards
697 fpe
70.9 wind drift
297" drop

<span style="font-weight: bold">7mm08</span> 162 grn A-max
2726 fps
10 mph wind
@700 yards
1251 fpe
28.45 wind drift
118" drop

@1,000 yards
873 fpe
63.3 wind drift
301" drop
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>

+1

Switch the bullet in the 260 to a JLK and the drop/drift figures will flip in favor of the .260. Splitting hairs here.
 
Re: .260 Pros/Cons?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nut job</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@SS: How are you getting 2726 out of a 175 SMK 308 win round? 30" barrel? My accurate reloads are 2550 and factory FGMM loads are 2600. </div></div>

+1

Switch the bullet in the 260 to a JLK and the drop/drift figures will flip in favor of the .260. Splitting hairs here. </div></div>

They already are in favor of the 260.
 
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