Gunsmithing .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

[GasLight]

Hello, wondering if anyone has had a reamer spec'd out for the above combination. I am wanting to run the 162 hpbt match from hornady. Will run it in an AW mag, but have heard it might not feed properly, so if that is the case, I will use Alpha or a modded AI mag. OAL should be just around 2.980"

Also, has anyone had any luck running the .284 out of AW mags?

thanks! oh, and yeah I know the case shines plenty in a long action, but this isn't a new build, just a switch barrel for my .308, so short action AW mags it is.

Dave

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Make a dummy and send it off to Dave Kiff.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Leo,

when you build a dummy like that, do you load it a little long so there is some jump, or does Dave figure in some extra lead? I was hoping someone already had a great reamer print with him.

Should I specify some jump, or have the chamber so at mag length the ogive is bumping the lands?

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

You load it the way you want and tell him what jump you plan on using Dave.

You probably want to seat your dummy .100" short of your anticipated max OAL so that you can chase the lands as the barrel wears.

If you settle on one specific bullet, you can do this and cut things close. If you want to run multiple bullets, then make dummies for all of them and send them to Dave to take some measurements off of and provide his recommendation on the dimensions for the "blended" COAL and base to ogive dimensions.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I think I will be pretty set on the 162 hpbt match. good point on chasing the lands. I am hoping the 162 will be pretty forgiving in the jump department, but don't want to be in a pickle when the throat starts growing. Thanks for the input, as always an invaluable resource!

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Good luck with the project. When I visited this subject with the intent of running 180s, COAL of 3.3" makes this kind of project a no-go from the start.

Throw it in a LA and be done with it.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I am kinda wondering if a reamer spec'd out like this would even be usable in a long action with the heavies? or will this chamber push the 180s even deeper into the case?

 

[KYS]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I went long action on my 284 build. Using 300WM AI mags. Its a hammer!
I highly recommend you go long action, you will be much happier with the performance being able to seat those bullets out and gain some more powder. Thats when this caliber truly shines.

 

[300sniper]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went long action on my 284 build. Using 300WM AI mags. Its a hammer!
I highly recommend you go long action, you will be much happier with the performance being able to seat those bullets out and gain some more powder. Thats when this caliber truly shines. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
thanks! oh, and yeah I know the case shines plenty in a long action, but this isn't a new build, just a switch barrel for my .308, so short action AW mags it is.

Dave </div></div>

sure, they really shine in a long action but for what dave is wanting to do, it will work using 162's in a short action.

i can't recommend a reamer setup since i haven't dealt with the 162's. i don't know what kind of jump they like. i do think if you get a reamer throated for 162's seated to 2.95" oal, it would be a waste to use that same reamer for a long action. i haven't looked at the hornady 162 hpbt's but looking at a 162 amax, it looks like 3.1" oal would be about optimal.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Couple things to say:

1. I have the reamer you want
2. Loading @ 2.980" will be unreliable with alpha mags. They will bind/hang up in the box. Consider 2.950 as max.
3. Limited to 2.950", you will have .075-.100" of bearing surface hanging out of the caseneck.
4. My reamer has a .317" neck to provide .0025" clearance per side on necked up 6.5-284 Lapua brass. It provides .002/side for winnie brass. Freebore is .088", to put a 162amax on lands @ ~ 2.930"

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

do you have a print, or does Kiff have the print?

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I don't have it in hand - pipefitter does! It was made by PTG, so they should have it.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

if you know what it is called, would make it easier to order

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

It's the 284 match, no-turn neck, with .088" freebore.

I'm not opposed to working out a loan/rent deal with you if you're interested.

Also, depending on your timeline, you can hold off and wait for my range report/results before committing to the same setup.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I've had great success with compressed charges with other calibers. If that trend continues with this 284, I don't think I'll be giving up much performance to a Long action.

I can squeeze 59gr of H4831sc in there with a 162amax or 168berger. Over 57gr of H4350, and over 58gr of RE17. Those are all over max. We'll see, I guess.

I haven't messed around with any 175s or 180s though.

 

[7mmRM]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Turbo,

What bbl lenght and expected velocity?

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Barrel is a 26" fluted M40 Bartlein.

I think (hope hope) I can hit or come damn close to 3000fps with the 162, but even if I only get 2900, itll be quite satisfactory for my purposes.

If it doesn't do 2900, I'm gonna give myself a swift kick in the ass for not going 7-08, 7-08AI or even 7CM. I've got more case capacity though, so I don't see how this would happen.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

that sounds pretty good, if I can find a sweet spot over 2800 fps I will be happy

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

The article sbove has some good info. He got a 25" krieger to go 2975fps with 160 accubond @ 2.900" COAL.

This is largely why I think RL17 + 162amax + 1" longer barrel (maybe more, mine is 26" from recoil lug) and .050-.060" longer COAL will get me to, or close to 3000fps.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

my understanding is that RL17 is very temp sensitive, pushed me away from shooting 208s in my .308. But I will go 26" so hopefully I can get up in the 2900s with a comparable powder

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I've also heard about bad temp instability of RL17. I bought some to try, but am prepared to leave 100+ fps on the table to have good temp stability with H4831sc, H4831 or H4350.

However, Sandwarrior claims he has thoroughly tested RL17 across widely varying temps with little instability. Hope he's right: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...210#Post3073210

 

[7mmRM]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Awesome! Id be very happy with a 162 @2850-2900. I ran '17 in my 708 for sometime, dropped it due to temp sesitivity.. Keep us updated.

 

[The Animal]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Have you considered the .284 Shehane? It will give you a few more grains of case capacity, plus no issues with fire forming.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered the .284 Shehane? It will give you a few more grains of case capacity, plus no issues with fire forming. </div></div>

That is probably a very valid option since there isn't really any .284 match ammo out there, so reloading is reloading. Might have to look at it again.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

I considered the shehane a little but ultimately decided I didn't want to deal with two different loads. For Fclass, this is a non-issue, but I don't intend to do much Fclass with my rifle...mainly tactical matches and UKD.

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I considered the shehane a little but ultimately decided I didn't want to deal with two different loads. For Fclass, this is a non-issue, but I don't intend to do much Fclass with my rifle...mainly tactical matches and UKD.</div></div>

why 2 loads? where is the problem with the shehane in your mind?

 

[The Animal]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Same neck, shoulder...just .010 less body taper. There is a guy at our club that shoots it and never has any feeding issues in any tac matches. A little more than 3 grains case capacity is worth looking at; especially if you are jamming that bullet deeper to fit in the DMB.

Dies are a non issue. I'd even coordinate your chamber reamer for what Forester (if you use them) may have for their standard print for FL dies on the 284 Shehane.

Bob will email you a print of what he has and you'll have better data to tell Kiff what you want to minimize case stretch.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I considered the shehane a little but ultimately decided I didn't want to deal with two different loads. For Fclass, this is a non-issue, but I don't intend to do much Fclass with my rifle...mainly tactical matches and UKD.</div></div>

why 2 loads? where is the problem with the shehane in your mind? </div></div>

Wouldn't the fresh virgin brass load be lighter than the fired brass load?

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I considered the shehane a little but ultimately decided I didn't want to deal with two different loads. For Fclass, this is a non-issue, but I don't intend to do much Fclass with my rifle...mainly tactical matches and UKD.</div></div>

why 2 loads? where is the problem with the shehane in your mind? </div></div>

Wouldn't the fresh virgin brass load be lighter than the fired brass load?</div></div>

You could just fireform and not shoot full loads out of it... or even better hydro form, I would think the shehane would hydro form nicely since there isn't a huge change in the shoulder...

 

[The Animal]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Hey Dave,

I don't think hydro forming is necessary with only .010 expansion off the sides. As you mentioned the HS off the shoulder is going to be the same.

Not pushing or forcing you towards that cartridge...but it's worth investigating further, especially if you're going to gain performance with minimal effort.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

Well, just got the news...my barreled action is being delivered tomorrow! If we have suitable chrony light this weekend, I'll buzz some ladders by the chrony. I'm planning on ~50 rounds, then off for Melonite. Lets all do an Indian "sundance" for good Sunlight, and a velocity dance for speed!

 

[GasLight]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Dave,

I don't think hydro forming is necessary with only .010 expansion off the sides. As you mentioned the HS off the shoulder is going to be the same.

Not pushing or forcing you towards that cartridge...but it's worth investigating further, especially if you're going to gain performance with minimal effort.
</div></div>

No, I appreciate it very much, I had looked at the Shehane before, not really sure why I didn't think of it again this time around.

 

[300sniper]

Re: .284 Reamer for short action, AW/Alpha or mod AI

i thought hard about the shehane before i rebarreled my long action 284. in the end i decided to stick with a straight 284 to keep from having to buy a new reamer and dies. i know my reamer works great with my load.

now if i was starting from scratch or had to squeeze a 284 into a short action, i'd probably be leaning toward the shehane.

 

[Svendogg]

Tag...

 

[LRShooter101]

Tag!

 

[turbo54]

This is an old thread...interesting to read my posts from prior to shooting my short action 284 for over a year.

The facts:

- After ~550 rounds through my Bartlein, I simply couldn't get it to shoot. Sent the barrel back to them and they gave me a replacement.
- While waiting for the new Bartlein to arrive, I bought an in-stock Krieger and installed it.
- First 5 shots were 162 amax, poor accuracy. Cleaned the barrel and gave up on 162s after another 3 shots. Switched to 175smk and it immediately hammered.
- I've now got ~1800 rounds through it, all loaded with 54.0gr H4831sc and 175smk @ 2.950". Velocity is ~2825fps with my 28" barrel.
- I use Alpha type 3 magazines, which required feedlip tweaks, and for the follower to be ground to match the shoulder location of the 284.
- Recent borescoping indicates the barrel should still have some good life in it.

My musings:

- The 284 is a great "all around" cartridge, but master of none. It is too powerful as a tactical match gun, has too much recoil, way more than needed downrange energy, too little magazine capacity, and brass is too hard to get.
- The short action configuration will give up a bit of velocity as compared to a LA, but not by very much. Most folks with ~27-28" barrel long action 284s are getting ~2800-2850 from the 175 bullets, and mine does 2825...
- Lapua brass will require rigorous prep work because you'll get donuts after a firing or two. This manifests itself as HIGHLY increased bullet seating force once the bullet's bearing surface begins to pass the neck shoulder junction.
- A .317" neck diameter is ok, but a bit tight IMHO. If I were ordering the reamer today, I would choose .320" to ensure plenty of neck clearance in the chamber.
- Be careful with fresh WW-Super 284 brass, because it tends to have a gnarly bur on the outside of the casemouth.
- The 175smk @ 2825fps flies really, really well, and hits steel like a sledgehammer.
- It is common for many 284's to exhibit sticky primary extraction, which some people call a "click on bolt lift". A small base die available from Redding will solve this.

 

[mcfred]

Thanks for the follow-up. 1800+ lifespan with the 175smk sounds pretty good movin' at 2825fps.

Any speculation why the Horny 162hpbt wouldn't group? Do you think the AMAX would be any different?

Why do you say that the 175s have too much recoil? Losing sight picture? Have you got a brake/can or are you using rifle mass alone to absorb recoil?

 

[turbo54]

Thanks for the follow-up. 1800+ lifespan with the 175smk sounds pretty good movin' at 2825fps.

Any speculation why the Horny 162hpbt wouldn't group? Do you think the AMAX would be any different?

Why do you say that the 175s have too much recoil? Losing sight picture? Have you got a brake/can or are you using rifle mass alone to absorb recoil?

I think the barrel will be good for a bunch more rounds over the 1800 already on it. But who knows, maybe it'll shit the bed next time out.

I never tried the 162hpbt, only the 162amax. I'm not going to venture a guess why they weren't shooting. Admittedly, I just tossed together some generic-spec'd loads to give them a whirl. ~52gr H4350, IIRC. I probably didn't give them a fair shake, but I was really jaded from the prior barrel that I tried and tried and tried to get to shoot. I guess I was left with the lesson that if it won't basically shoot moa or better right off the bat, move on to something different.

I have a Badger Thruster brake on the 284. My recoil comment was specifically targeted towards the "PRS-style" matches that I shoot, where time is short, ranges medium on average, and most shots are not taken prone. I can shoot my 284 with/without brake all day, comfortably. However, when shooting in compromised position, it is more difficult to see impacts and run the rifle quickly as compared to the 6's and 6.5's.