.30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

[taseal]

Still doing my research.

in general terms of research, the SMKs seem to be much more popular than anything else. I've been particularly interested in 175 to 210 bullets for the SMK.

but when I looked at the load data for the .30-06 almost everyone is using the 208 amax rounds.

I have heard things like hornady doesn't publish correct (higher) bc, and SMK is a better round.

I've also read that SMK shouldn't be used for hunting, but the amax does a good of as a hybrid round.

I just wanted opinions on the amax vs SMK rounds for particularly .30-06 platform

I'm probably going to stick with 208 amax or a 175-180 SMK with H4350, RL22 or RL17

I want consistency and willing to give up little FPS for consistency. but would like to stay supersonic until 1000, which should be doable

 

[jwoolf]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

amax all the way. It's way higher bc and they're more consistant in length... it's a way better bullet in my 300wm. You can not even compare them in terms of how well they shoot.

I think you will find most responses, if not all responses, the same for guys that have tried the amax.

The only issue is that they're kind of hard to find at times so when you see them, you need to stock up on them. There are a lot of people, I'm guessing who don't shoot them because they're too hard to keep on your shelf.

Last bullet run they made, I bought 2000 of them so I'd have some around for a while.

Another is the 210gr vld.... If you can not locate any of the amax, the vld bullet will do the same thing but, they cost almost 2x what you can get the amax for if or when you find them. Also, the vld can be had in a hunting version with the same bc as the target version.

If money was no object, I'd probably shoot the vld since you can find those consistantly but, even at the wholesale internet places, you're looking at 25.00/box for amax and over 40.00/box for the vld. They both shoot about the same with the smk a distant 3rd place. ( since I've only tried those 3 in my rifle )

 

[taseal]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

I see...

Well here are couple things I read in my research.

Amax's BCs are exaggerated and vld bullets don't shoot well out of a factory chamber.

The only diff between vld match and hunting is the type of jacketing used afaik. It's the same damn bullet.

I realized the 208 amax is kind of hard to find.

 

[bohem]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

1) The Amax is not really a VLD, it tolerates a jump pretty well from all of my 30s. It likes to be about 0.020" off the lands and then it performs admirably. It is a secant ogive bullet unlike the SMK's which are almost exclusively tangent ogive bullets.

2) RL22, H4831sc, RL17 work very well with the 208 Amax

3) The 208 Amax has a superior BC to the SMK's all the way up to the 240 SMK, the 240 is about 2.5% higher.

4) The SMK's tend to have significantly longer bearing surfaces and in my experience they cannot be shot to the same speed as the 208 Amax from the 30-06 (really, in any of my 30's but let's stick to the 30-06 for now).

5) The Litz data on the 208 Amax says G1_avg = 0.631, as opposed to the Hornady value of 0.648

Yes, this is an exaggerated number on Hornady's part but it is no worse than the numbers published for the SMK's. To my knowledge, the only major company publishing accurate BC's is Berger. This is due to Bryan Litz's work at Berger, until he came on board their BC's were off too.

6) The 210 VLD by Berger is an excellent bullet. I found it to be a little fussy to seating depth. Berger makes another bullet, the 210 LRBT (if memory serves) and the Litz published BC is appx 10points (0.001 = 1 point) below the 208 Amax. The LRBT tolerates jump well when I tested them.

Prices are about 60% higher, but you can get them.

7) Grafs.com is showing the 208 Amax in stock right now.

8) I shoot the 208's from my 26" barreled 30-06 at 2825 with H4831sc and 2850 with RL22. It is supersonic well past 1000yd. The 208 also (under the conditions that I've shot it in, which are reasonably harsh) to remain stable through the sound barrier transition.

I had very repeatable hits at 1740yd with it and the bullet was transitioning just short of 1500yd that day according to JBM.

 

[taseal]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

Thanks bohem. I think I read some of your reloads in the 30-06 load data thread.

So you think the Berger 210 vld might need a custom chamber to perform better?

I'll check grafs right now. Maybe order some now before they disappear. I'll go check gander mtn after work today, maybe I'll get lucky and they have some in stock

What was the bc for the 208 with g7?

 

[bohem]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

I don't think it needs a custom chambering necessarily, it will just take a little work to tune up the load. I have a SAAMI spec reamer and the chamber is cut to min -0.001 on the gauge. The rifle is about 4500+ rounds through that tube and the throat has grown about 0.1" from when I chambered it.

It's still shooting very well, my OAL has just grown, that's all. It is built on a K98 receiver so with heavy bullets it never really fit in the magazine anyway.

Grafs prices may look a little high, but keep in mind that their price on the website is the delivered price (unless the item is Hazmat handicapped).

 

[Rob01]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

I have always used Hornady's listed BCs for their bullets and have been on at out to 1300 yards. They can't be that far exagerated.

As to what bullet, the 208 AMAX or the 178 BTHP would be a good choice. The 178 BTHP has a .530 BC which is almost at the .533 BC of the 190 SMK but with it's lighter weight you can shoot them faster. From my testing with them I have found them to be very accurate in my rifles and might be worth a look.

 

[tdow]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

Will a 1 in 11 twist work with the 208 Amax?

 

[bohem]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

Under what conditions? Many times yes, some times no.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

In regard to taking game:

I drilled a deer at 675 yards with a 180SMK from my 308 at about 2550fps MV. I scored a good shot on the vitals. The bullet went through and through, turned the lungs into blood soup. The deer made a crazy jump (the way they do when you shoot them), sprinted about 75 yards, and expired.

I've never used the A-max, and know a lot of people claim they make good hunting/target bullets.

I don't see what difference it really makes, if you score a good hit??!!

I've also hit a bunch of deer with Federal Power-shok 150, which I believe is a 150gr Speer Grand-slam soft point, flat based bullet. I've hit deer at 80 yards, 200 yards and 400 yards with that bullet, and it always just punches through them, never leaving one of those massive exit wounds, so again, I'm not really sure how much difference bullet choice really makes, when you send supersonic shock waves through the pulmonary system of a creature, and two holes for them to bleed from...

Someone mentioned the Hornady Match BTHP bullet - I've been looking high and low for that bullet to try, can't find them anywhere, for the last 2 months.

 

[turbo54]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Under what conditions? Many times yes, some times no. </div></div>

+1

You'd have to be at very low altitude on a very high pressure, on a very COLD day. I've found that at 760ft above sea level, on a 40*F day, with 29.9" of pressure, the 208 Hornady match BTHP stabilizes fine (at least out to 600 yards), with a MV of only 2350fps from a 308 with <span style="font-weight: bold">1:12 </span>twist.

 

[bohem]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

Here's the JBM Trajectory prediction for the 208 Amax @ 2550fps MV and a 1:11tw @ 25F sea level

Stability
Input Data
Caliber: 0.308 in Bullet Weight: 208.0 gr
Bullet Length: 1.530 in
Muzzle Velocity: 2500.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 11.0 in
Temperature: 25.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Output Data
Stability: 1.181

 

[turbo54]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

What does that stability number mean? Im completely ignorant here.

 

[bohem]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

That means that the projectile is leaving the muzzle with a gyroscopic stability margin of +18%

Margin = Allowable/Actual - 1

In this case it can be simplified to

Margin = Actual - 1

This doesn't guarantee dynamic stability, but because we know that the aerodynamic forces on the 208 Amax leave us with a shape that is generally within the stability parabola as long as the gyroscopic stability is maintained at the muzzle, it should fly point first under the conditions I copied above.

 

[tdow]

Re: .30-06 - amax or SMK bullets

Thanks for that info. That's pretty helpful. Typical conditions for me lately would be 50 degrees, 50% humidity, baro: 27.70, although summer temps would be 100+ and in the winter single digit temps. My barrel is 22.75, so I don't know how fast I could push them.