30-06 load tuning

[black5.3]

Hey guys, after researching and reading for several days i decided to start a new thread and see if i can get yall to help me out. I have been shooting this load through my '06 for several months and it performs well at 1k but i know i can do better. I recently got more serious about my reloading and invested in a magnetospeed v3 to see what my rifle is doing. So my load is a 195gr tmk, 53gr imr 4955, 2.658" (measured with comparator) lapua brass. This load will shoot ragged holes at 100yards if i do my part. For the life of me i can not get my es or sd down to respectable numbers. My es is usually anywhere from 40's to 70's and sd's mostly in the low 20's.. we have had just a little cooler weather here so i am going ro re prep my bass and try a couple strings of rounds with another .1 or .2 of powder added.. the load is warm but not dangerous yet, my avg velocity is around 2715-2720 from a 24" barrel. Im mainly just looking for hints/tips on what i might be forgetting. I anneal every 2 firings for now, seat primers with primal rights press mounted seater, size with forster FL die, seat bullets with forster micrometer bench rest seater. Neck tension seems to be consistently .0015". I have tried WLR primers(they are ok), cci br-2's(they gave me a 10 shot string with lowest sd of 10.4 but i havent been able to replicate it so it must not be consistent), federal 210's (these have been pretty consistent and give me es of 40-50 most of the time)... im pretty close to buying a expander mandrel die with the mandrel to suit my needs. I almost think neck consistency is a key player here since i already anneal and i can feel a difference in some of the cases when im seating bullets. What is you guys take on this? This next batch of lapua brass im prepping will be on its 4th firing and i will be priming them with the federal 210's to see what that does again before i start bumping up the powder charge a .1th gr at the time. Sorry for the long thread just trying to hive as much info as possible.

Thanks guys

 

[SPAK]

How did you do your load development? Try a different powder.....my go to with the heavies in .30-06 are h4350 and h4831..... can also try some rl22 if you don't mind the temp swings.... I'd start there....

 

[black5.3]

Well i have shot rl19, and imr4064 through the rifle and i wasnt very satisfied with the case fill of either. Rl19 did ok group wise but it only shot good with a pretty hot load and after trying to tune it for several months i gave up on it. My es/sd was worse than what im getting now with this tmk-imr4955 load... i also wanted to get a powder that was "temp insensitive" so thats why i tried the imr4955. I think my powder is ok, im probably not getting 100% burn but through testing various charge weights and primers over my chronograph i have gotten some very acceptable numbers but i just cant duplicate them from one string to the next. Which makes me think it may be a neck tension consistency issue that is kind of skewing my numbers. I feel slight differences when seating on the press and when i look at my chrono i may have 4-5 shots that are within 10-15 fps of each other and then i will have several more that vary by 50-60 fps. Im just trying to make sure i have the reloading side of it nailed down before i start buying more powder and restart the whole process over again. I know several people at my local range who now size with a good FL die and then run the brass over a expander mandrel to really set the neck tension. They all say that they noticed a drop in sd and that when seating bullets it felt mkre consistent. Are you guys using an expander mandrel?

 

[SPAK]

Neck tension could be part of it, but I would venture to say that unless you've got a properly tuned ocw load with the right powder, neck tension is probably not the priority....not minimizing the importance of consistent neck tension but you need to tune the load first. Recommend starting with new brass or once fired brass, run your ocw with h4350 or h4831 if you want temp stable powders. Forster or Redding bushing dies are fine...I prefer full length sizing but that's just me...

 

[black5.3]

I developed this load with lapua brass ran a pressure ladder and then started a ocw test. My node started around 52.8gr and ran to 53.5. I have been loading, testing primers, and seating depth at 53.0gr. Over the next several days im going to try adding another .1 or .2 of powder and see if the es/sd drop some. I am loading just off the lands. At 53.0gr i tried seating the bullet .015" and .030" deeper into the case to see if it changed anything and the sd/es got worse as the bullet seated deeper.

 

[SPAK]

Don't change too many things at once.....010" seating depth change can mimick .1gr of powder charge change. I start at .020" off and don't change it unless I need to. Very rarely will i have to if I've properly identified the right powder charge. In the .30-06 case yoirxnode should be within .5 gr....if you're looking for .1-.2 grain accuracy node then you haven't identified the proper ocw.

In a 26" barrel lapua brass 208 amax 53.0-53.5 grains of h4350 gave me 1/2 moa groups.

if you have done due diligence in developing a proper ocw, change powders...

 

[black5.3]

So your putting 53gr of h4350 behind a 208gr amax?? That seems like it would be a hot load. Im only using 53gr of a much slower powder than you with a lighter bullet and im not far from seeing pressure signs in lapua brass. Im going to load up 10-12 rounds to shoot over the chrono tomorrow. Im going to start at about 51gr or 51.2gr and in rease the charge .2gr with every round and watch the velocities to see where other possible nodes might be.

 

[SPAK]

Every rifle is different. distance to the lands effects your seating depth and will dictate how much you can put in the case. Bullet length and construction is also a variable to pressure. Again, if you've properly done load development with ladder testing or ocw then that should be the indicator for how much powder you can use. Pressure signs or lack of in someone else's rifle do not mean it will be safe or not safe in yours.

in that particular rifle with that chamber I had I was able to go as high as 54.5gr h4350 before seeing pressure signs....

how Are you annealing your brass? What chronograph are you using? Do you have pictures of yoir ocw test? How did you select your node?

 

[black5.3]

Yeah i gotcha on all the technicalities. What velocity were you getting from that load? Im annealing every 2 firings with an annealeez and ive done the regulator upgrade to it for consistent flame. Im using a magnetospeed v3. I dont have any pics of targets or anything but i will have pics of my velocity data after i shoot tomorrow. I selected my nkde by shooting several charge rates over a broad range and when i saw no shift of poi from poa and then i loaded several more loads of those charges to make sure they grouped to my liking. When i was seating my 10 rounds tonight ranging from 51.4gr - 53.2gr only 3-4 of them seated smoothly like they should, the other 6-7 were pretty tight and noticeably harder to seat than the others.... i will just see what the numbers look like tomorrow and go from there.

 

[SPAK]

Velocity was 2720-2750fps

If neck tension is the culprit, separate those pieces of brass that were more difficult to seat and mark them. See if they have a velocity difference and poi difference from the others that seat normally.

how is your accuracy at 100 yards and at distance?

 

[black5.3]

Accuracy is good at 100 yards and at distance. It will shoot ragged holes at 100 if im doing my part. I can maintain consistent hits on 1 moa steel out to 700 yards and regularly shoot steel out to 1000 yards on 2 moa steel (thats what my range has to offer). I ordered the 21st century ti ni expander mandrel and die yesterday. Maybe it will be here by thursday or friday. Im going to back to the range this up coming saturday with my usual load and when i get back will start prepping brass again and testing loads after using the expander mandrel and annealing.

 

[black5.3]

Got all my brass resized after taking the expander ball out of my die and after annealing. I like using the expander mandrel, sucks to add another step to the reloading process but we will see how it does. The 21st century ti ni expander is a quality piece and runs smoothly. Maybe i will get some time this week to shoot some more loads over the chrono and see if there was any improvement.