300 blackout, I need starting load data for 125g solid all copper

[800GS]

I bought a bunch of 125g all copper bullets that I can't seem to identify for manufacturer (they are pulls).

They are full copper with no driving bands so I assume they have more bore friction than other full copper or copper jacketed. (they look a bit like sintered but are definitely all copper). They have a decent taper but more of a blunt tip.

I plan to shoot them supersonic if I can find a safe starting load.

Anybody shooting something similar that can give me some starting load data? I don't want to stick these things in the bore but but don't want to blow my gun up either.

Any experience, help, guidance, references, etc would be really appreciated.

 

[spife7980]

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

Find what you need in four easy steps. Select your cartridge type from the drop-down list. Then select your bullet weight, powder manufacturer and powder type. If you're unsure, or just want options, check as many boxes as you'd like. Click "Get Data" to view results.

www.hodgdonreloading.com

 

[800GS]

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

Find what you need in four easy steps. Select your cartridge type from the drop-down list. Then select your bullet weight, powder manufacturer and powder type. If you're unsure, or just want options, check as many boxes as you'd like. Click "Get Data" to view results.

www.hodgdonreloading.com

Thanks, Spife

That is the first place I looked before even posting here. Unfortunately they don't show any load data for 125g, longer, "all copper" bullets.

Copper bullets are usually longer then conventional lead core bullets' of the same weight so usually have more barrel bore drag that equals higher pressures.

 

[awonder]

Just use the 125 data and start lower if your worried about pressure.

 

[padom]

I run H110 18.0-18.6gr with Sierra 125gr TMK's... 2150 out of a 10.5" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 300BO SBR. Id start at 17.0 and work up in .3gr increments and find your node before pressure starts..

 

[800GS]

I run H110 18.0-18.6gr with Sierra 125gr TMK's... 2150 out of a 10.5" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 300BO SBR. Id start at 17.0 and work up in .3gr increments and find your node before pressure starts..

Thanks but that kind of scares me as these 125g all coppers that I have have at least twice the bearing area as the Sierra 125gr TMK. I need to thread the needle between going over pressure and not going under pressure then sticking the bullet in the bore.

I was sort of hoping someone has dealt with this before.

A few years ago I stuck an all copper bullet in a 6.8 bore and it was the fight of my life getting that darn thing out without damaging the bore. I just don't want to EVER go into the rabbit hole again.

 

[padom]

Thanks but that kind of scares me as these 125g all coppers that I have have at least twice the bearing area as the Sierra 125gr TMK. I need to thread the needle between going over pressure and not going under pressure then sticking the bullet in the bore.

I was sort of hoping someone has dealt with this before.

A few years ago I stuck an all copper bullet in a 6.8 bore and it was the fight of my life getting that darn thing out without damaging the bore. I just don't want to EVER go into the rabbit hole again.

You arent sticking one in the bore with 17gr. Are we talking about the 125 Copper from American Reloading? Ive already been shooting their 55gr all copper in 5.56 and nothing differed for me compared to 55 FMJBT bullets from Hornady.

 

[800GS]

You arent sticking one in the bore with 17gr. Are we talking about the 125 Copper from American Reloading? Ive already been shooting their 55gr all copper in 5.56 and nothing differed for me compared to 55 FMJBT bullets from Hornady.

Yes, from AmReloading.

I thought those 55g .223/5.56 coppers were pressed copper not solid.

There is a lot more bullet bearing surface on the .308 than on a .223.

I'm thinking you are are correct in that 17gr won't stick a long bearing surface 125 copper bullet, I just don't want to take a chance if I can verify with someone actually doing it before.

If I can find/verify any data then the 125 GMX would be a closer match but even those have less bearing surface.

I was kind of hoping that someone has been shooting something similar in the 300 BLK, baring any new postings from actual users I am probably going to have to start at something like 17g then see what I get for speed and brass witness marks and brass expansion then go from there.

 

[r50140]

I bought a bag of pull down 130 grain 30 cal bullets from RMR a year or so ago. They described these bullets as: 308 130 gr, Mark 319, sost, otm. For barriers, windshields, etc. May be solid copper, have not cut one apart to verify. I have shot a couple dozen through a Ruger ranch in 300 BO, suppressed. LC brass, win primer, 19.2 grains 1680 powder.

I shoot the Hornady 190 grain sub-x over 11.7 grains of 1680 ( shot in AR and Ruger)
I shoot the Barnes 110 grain Tac-Tx over 19.2 grains of H 110. (shot in AR and Ruger)
I shoot the Nosler BT 125 over 18.5 grains of H 110. (shot in AR and Ruger)

I run a very heavy buffer, gas block is NOT adjustable. Bolt does lock back on an empty mag. Your mileage may vary, work your way up.

Picture attached of the pull down RMR bullets

 

[tmalonso]

Yes, from AmReloading.

I thought those 55g .223/5.56 coppers were pressed copper not solid.

There is a lot more bullet bearing surface on the .308 than on a .223.

I'm thinking you are are correct in that 17gr won't stick a long bearing surface 125 copper bullet, I just don't want to take a chance if I can verify with someone actually doing it before.

If I can find/verify any data then the 125 GMX would be a closer match but even those have less bearing surface.

I was kind of hoping that someone has been shooting something similar in the 300 BLK, baring any new postings from actual users I am probably going to have to start at something like 17g then see what I get for speed and brass witness marks and brass expansion then go from there.

Any chance you have any updates on those AmReloading 308 125gr spitzer-snubs yet? This forum post is the only thing I can find even mentioning a safe starting load...17gr was about where I would have assumed to start as well but I shared your hesitation so I asked AmReloading for some guidance but their reply said to start off a grain lighter than Hodgdon's H110 starting load data for 125gr Nosler BT...Hodgdon recommends to start at 15.7gr so I guess AmReloading was recommending a 14.7gr starting load. This seemed low to me so I kept looking around for more data. I was able to find a 300blk reloading data from VigilanceAero...their starting load for 125gr Nosler BT is 16.7gr, max 17.8gr and their starting load for the Barnes 130gr T-TSX is 17.9gr, max 19.0gr

Even with the extra input I'm still leaning toward 17gr for a starting point but I figured it couldn't hurt to check in on your progress just in case. Thanks in advance.

 

[r50140]

Hornady reloading data for their 125-130 grain bullets, Accurate 1680 powder is starting at 18.3 grains for 1700 FPS, max at 20.7 grains for 1900 FPS. Taken from Tenth Edition reloading manual. I personally always use the A1680 for the heavy subsonic loads and load H110 or Win296 under bullets 150 grains or less. Based on my experience, I can’t imagine 17- 18 grains sticking a 125 copper bullet, but I would use the Hornady starting load of 18.3 and see what the FPS looks like.

 

[r50140]

“Makerbullets” make solid copper bullets. If you look around on the net, you may be able to find loading information on their 130 grain blackout bullet. I have shot a few of their 190 grain 30 cal bullets in my blackout. Expensive bullets, but they sure do the job.

 

[tmalonso]

Hornady reloading data for their 125-130 grain bullets, Accurate 1680 powder is starting at 18.3 grains for 1700 FPS, max at 20.7 grains for 1900 FPS. Taken from Tenth Edition reloading manual. I personally always use the A1680 for the heavy subsonic loads and load H110 or Win296 under bullets 150 grains or less. Based on my experience, I can’t imagine 17- 18 grains sticking a 125 copper bullet, but I would use the Hornady starting load of 18.3 and see what the FPS looks like.

Unfortunately I don't have any 1680 on hand, I'm working with H110. I've got the 9th edition Hornady manual myself...I was a little nervous to trust the 125-130gr data because the rounds listed are all lead core...these AmReloading elongated all copper snub bullets have a much more blunted tip and a lot more bearing surface, with no driving bands...with my limited reloading experience and tendency for caution, it seemed like a recipe for excess pressures. Thanks for the reply.

 

[tmalonso]

“Makerbullets” make solid copper bullets. If you look around on the net, you may be able to find loading information on their 130 grain blackout bullet. I have shot a few of their 190 grain 30 cal bullets in my blackout. Expensive bullets, but they sure do the job.

I didn't think of that, I'm a big fan of MakerBullets...I've got a bunch of their 110gr t-rex's and match solids. They are extremely knowledgeable and helpful to say the least. I suspect he'll have SW's SBR-SOCOM data too, which I may try. Thanks for the idea!

 

[Maxduty]

You're really over thinking this. Just start in the middle of the range for your given powder and shoot it. It's not like the bearing surface is inches longer and it's not going to have that much affect.

 

[tmalonso]

You're really over thinking this. Just start in the middle of the range for your given powder and shoot it. It's not like the bearing surface is inches longer and it's not going to have that much affect.

Huh, when I contacted Hodgdon they told me my concerns were correct and that the 125gr Nosler BT data for H110 would not be safe for a much longer all copper snub nose projectile...they have yet to make any additional recommendations but I'm waiting on replies from some other sources as well....long story short, I don't have a "range" for my given powder...I just have some theoretical guestimates, but much like the person who originally created this post, I would prefer some real world experience over theory. Thanks for the reply anyways.

 

[Maxduty]

Then start at 17.6 grains of H110. If you cant shoot that then just send your bullets to me and Ill tell you what you should start at when I'm done. It's not rocket science.

 

[tmalonso]

Then start at 17.6 grains of H110. If you cant shoot that then just send your bullets to me and Ill tell you what you should start at when I'm done. It's not rocket science.

lol...nah I'll just wait for the person who created the post to come back with their real life experience and see how they did...seems odd you never replied to the person who originally posted this question...I just asked how things went a few months after but you're replying to me as though I was the creator of this post.

"its not rocket science"...this quote is exactly why I would never shoot anyone else's reloads haha...not trying to say reloading "is rocket science"...but if you're busy trying to tell everyone just send it, you're not being very helpful. Thanks again, either way though

 

[Maxduty]

I'm actually being very helpful giving you a starting point. I mean seriously, Barnes doesn't seem to have trouble with it.

 

[tmalonso]

I'm actually being very helpful giving you a starting point. I mean seriously, Barnes doesn't seem to have trouble with it.

Well I suppose as long as you think you're being helpful, I guess you are, I'll take it under advisement... Just for reference, I had also contacted Barnes previously, they said because of their boat tail and driving bands, the pressures could vary quite a bit from a "flat based spitzer snub" as I've described it to them...again, no offense intended, just trying to let you know I've gotten a lot of hesitance from all the information sources I've checked prior to coming here...not trying to say you're "just send it" mentality is wrong, just trying to say I'd prefer to exercise a bit more caution...I mostly load 110gr bullets for 300blk, I just grabbed 250 of the AmReloading 125gr because they were cheap...so right now my information gathering is casual at best...there couldn't be any less of a rush unless I was out of primers haha

 

[Choid]

If you use CFE Blk you can shove them as full of powder as you like and still not get pressure. Good velocity, good accuracy. Its really a great 300 Blackout powder. I use 22.4 with 110 grain solid copper, and I have nothing as far as pressure goes, you could start a bit below there.

I don't love using 296 and H110 just because I always worried about it for reloading magnum handguns. You have a very narrow band between possible detonation and pressure.

 

[tmalonso]

If you use CFE Blk you can shove them as full of powder as you like and still not get pressure. Good velocity, good accuracy. Its really a great 300 Blackout powder. I use 22.4 with 110 grain solid copper, and I have nothing as far as pressure goes, you could start a bit below there.

I don't love using 296 and H110 just because I always worried about it for reloading magnum handguns. You have a very narrow band between possible detonation and pressure.

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll keep an eye out for some to come in stock. I've been pleased with the results of h110 for 110gr barnes tac-tx so far but if I could gain any accuracy without losing any velocity, I'm sure I could be converted to cfe blk quickly

 

[markr6754]

Hello Folks. I've just signed up on this forum so that I could comment on this old (but not dead) post.
As others, I picked up quite a few 125gr Solid Copper bullets from American Reloading, specifically to use in 300 BLK plinking. Using some load data that I interpolated from Sierra, I loaded some converted LC and FC headstamp brass with 19.0gr CFE-BLK, S&B SRP, seated to 2.11" C.O.L.
I loaded another batch with 15.0gr H-110, same primer and seating depth.

All fed and cycled fine in 8.5" and 10.5" uppers. Upon inspection of the spent cases, those fired with 19.0gr CFE-BLK exhibited flattened primers. Those fired with 150gr H-110 appeared "normal".

Sadly, I don't have a chronograph, and I'm limited to indoor shooting at max 25 yds. At least they were accurate, clean round holes, and fired well out of Magpul 5.56x45mm Gen 3 and Lancer L5ASM 300 BLK magazines.

Thanks.

 

[800GS]

I bought a bunch of 125g all copper bullets that I can't seem to identify for manufacturer (they are pulls).

They are full copper with no driving bands so I assume they have more bore friction than other full copper or copper jacketed. (they look a bit like sintered but are definitely all copper). They have a decent taper but more of a blunt tip.

I plan to shoot them supersonic if I can find a safe starting load.

Anybody shooting something similar that can give me some starting load data? I don't want to stick these things in the bore but but don't want to blow my gun up either.

Any experience, help, guidance, references, etc would be really appreciated.

I got distracted with other projects but think I finally have this sorted (kind of a stream of mistakes and mis-information) so this is mainly for future searchers on this bullet.

Not having found any specific load data I decided to cut one of these "copper" bullets apart to see (try to understand) what the alloy was. With no cannelure groove I was kind of suspicious of them being full copper)

They cut like all copper with a hacksaw but when the cut pieces were smashed on my anvil with a hammer they became dust and small porous pieces (definitely not an all copper bullet.

These were marketed and sold as a copper bullet so that is just not true. They sure looked like solid copper but definitely are not.

So with a little research I found this frangible bullet along with recommended load data. The recommendation is: __ Use Hodgdon load data for a 168gr. jacketed bullet.

 

[yellowtailandrockfish]

I did similar tests. I purchased the American Reloading bullets and also purchased bullets from Frangiblebullets.com. .
I ground down both bullets in our analysis lab at work after hours and determined the construction of the two are not the same. After grinding down the bullets 1/3 way (like filleting a fish) I sanded and polished the exposed metal core surfaces and looked at them under a microscope.
The frangiblebullets.com bullets are made of some copper powder plus some other binder or other grey metal powder mixed in. (It has the copper powder graininess appearance but some lighter grey metal colored stuff mixed in) It makes the bullets more brittle. The AmericanReloading bullets seem to be made of more percentage of copper powder. (The appearance is all copper looking with minor graininess.)
If I pinch the Frangiblebullets.com bullets with large wire cutters, I can get about 25% through it and the bullet will break/fracture apart along the cut line. The AmericanReloading bullet is able to withstand almost cutting past 40% and it does not fracture. I wasn't strong enough to get it to fracture but with better cutters I probably can. Under the microscope, I can scratch small particles off the Frangiblebullets.com bullet but have more difficulty scratching particles from the Americanreloading bullet. The Frangiblebullets.com bullet has a cannulure and the AmericanReloading.com bullet does not.

In addition, the brown tip .223/5.56 bullet Americanreloading sells is a thin copper jacket elongated "cup" and filled with powdery copper mix and the tip pokes out the opening of the cup to form the tip. In the photo:
AmericanReloading.com 223/5.56 bullet on left,
AmericanReloading 308 copper bullet in middle,
FrangibleBullets.com 308 bullet on right.