300 PRC update

Schw15

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    I do believe that Berger is conservative with their numbers....and hence why they tried to educate people with the No BS BC series. The .413 is at a certain condition at a certain range.....with a certain barrel...and a certain velocity. Me using a 29.5" barrel and getting a little more giddy up behind the bullets....increases the BC. Now....I also tip my bullets and HBN coat them...I'm currently at around a .455 G7.

    I've shot a lot of 230 A-Tips...and many hundred 250's. While I really like the A-Tips...they have a tendency to explodicate at the absolute worst time. If I'm shooting an ELR match and one explodes and I miss....probably not that big a deal since my odds of hitting that 2000+ yard steel aren't certain....but when you shoot 1 mile paper...and 1 miss is a DQ....then it just pisses you off.

    I originally started shooting the 245 EOLs because they were $50/100 or so...while the A-Tips where like $80/100.....the price difference was large enough for me to give them a try. Then I found I shot consistent with the Bergers and while I was going to tip them...thus more work....I really liked them. It seems a 1-9tw likes the 245 Berger more than the 250 A-Tip...

    I still have hundreds of A-Tips...but I have a lot of 245 EOL's I will shoot first.....until the new 245-ish Berger comes out soon...then I'll test them out. I was hoping the Bergers were 'close enough' for me not to fret over when shooting ELR....and they've exceeded my expectations.....I've had matches where I shoot a sub 2" vertical at a mile...but blow my wind calls....and last week I shot 3 groups with 2" horizontals....but had something going wonky with the rear bag and my vertical dispersion was too much to keep all 5 on paper. One day I'll get both at the same time and it will be magical.

    So...the A-Tip is one sexy looking bullet. They are great....it's just that the low probability of one flying apart...seems to catch me and others at exactly the wrong time. Not much Hornady can do about that....it is what it is. The bergers have been consistently great for me....I'll measure the snot out of stuff...and they are great from lot to lot.

    Both are great bullets....but like I said...I originally shot the A-Tips...and wanted to convert to something not so price heavy...and ended up finding something I like more.
    Does the 230 a-tip explode when barrel is hotter? Or just random? I swore I wouldn't shoot hornady again after the 180 eldm problem but wanted to try the 230 a-tips. Bought 700 of them.
     

    b2lee

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  • Dec 30, 2018
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    Does the 230 a-tip explode when barrel is hotter? Or just random? I swore I wouldn't shoot hornady again after the 180 eldm problem but wanted to try the 230 a-tips. Bought 700 of them.

    It has to be random.....the bonding isn't strong enough in aluminum to lead/copper in one out of a bunch. I've seen them blow up in 1k and 1 mile benchrest...so like 5 to maybe 10 sighters...then shoot 5 for a group.....one of the record shots goes poof 15 yards down range....or simply doesn't show up on a 42" piece of paper at 1k when the other 4 are in a 5" group.

    So very clean barrels....very expensive and lapped barrels.....plenty of cooling off between sighters......cool barrel...and then poof! In that game....1 miss is a DQ....can you risk it? In other disciplines...it is just merely annoying on the rare occasion.
     

    Schw15

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    It has to be random.....the bonding isn't strong enough in aluminum to lead/copper in one out of a bunch. I've seen them blow up in 1k and 1 mile benchrest...so like 5 to maybe 10 sighters...then shoot 5 for a group.....one of the record shots goes poof 15 yards down range....or simply doesn't show up on a 42" piece of paper at 1k when the other 4 are in a 5" group.

    So very clean barrels....very expensive and lapped barrels.....plenty of cooling off between sighters......cool barrel...and then poof! In that game....1 miss is a DQ....can you risk it? In other disciplines...it is just merely annoying on the rare occasion.
    Well dang. After I had the 180 eldm blow I switched to smk and a few bergers. But 30 cal bullets were tough to find and the 230 a-tips were there so thought I'd try. Hopefully they do better. I'm sure my speeds will be kept in the 2800 to 2850. Thanks for the info on them. Did you find the bc true?
     

    b2lee

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    Well dang. After I had the 180 eldm blow I switched to smk and a few bergers. But 30 cal bullets were tough to find and the 230 a-tips were there so thought I'd try. Hopefully they do better. I'm sure my speeds will be kept in the 2800 to 2850. Thanks for the info on them. Did you find the bc true?

    I found the BC close enough to where I didn't really have an issue with them....if anything....my BC was 2 points higher or so...because of the speeds.
     

    Schw15

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    I found the BC close enough to where I didn't really have an issue with them....if anything....my BC was 2 points higher or so...because of the speeds.
    Nice. What speeds did you push them? Wish hornady would listen and fix the problem.
     

    b2lee

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    Nice. What speeds did you push them? Wish hornady would listen and fix the problem.

    I've pushed them in excess of 3000fps....which is silly...I found at around 2925 they performed the best for me.

    I don't think Hornady can fix the problem. Actually, I think Hornady has done a great job with them...better than probably any other company could do on a large scale. The problem is the design itself....it is...what it is. You will have the occasional...random bullet...just not bond good enough...spin it at a high RPM with pressure while squeezing it in the lands....and sometimes....they just fail.
     

    Schw15

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    I've pushed them in excess of 3000fps....which is silly...I found at around 2925 they performed the best for me.

    I don't think Hornady can fix the problem. Actually, I think Hornady has done a great job with them...better than probably any other company could do on a large scale. The problem is the design itself....it is...what it is. You will have the occasional...random bullet...just not bond good enough...spin it at a high RPM with pressure while squeezing it in the lands....and sometimes....they just fail.
    With those 180 eldm I had 16 out of 20 blow. 7mm rem mag 2900 to 3000 1-8 twist but had great luck 280ai 2800 1-9 never lost one and shot amazing. But very true I shot hornady from hunting butters to target my whole life til that happened. I don't plan on getting those speeds but I appreciate the info on them. I wonder when berger will release the new 245 target that will be a good one
     

    Schw15

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    What is the length of the 250 a-tip bullet? If some one can measure one or let me know I would appreciate it
     

    walkabout

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    Can I ask why you guys use heavy bullets in the PRC?
    I have been using 200gn Sierra's the new #2231 pointed out to a mile on 1 MOA plates with good results.
    Getting 3200fps with no pressure.
    Just wondering?
    Is it all about BC and wind?
     
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    Bandit320

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    Can I ask why you guys use heavy bullets in the PRC?
    I have been using 200gn Sierra's the new #2231 pointed out to a mile on 1 MOA plates with good results.
    Getting 3200fps with no pressure.
    Just wondering?
    Is it all about BC and wind?

    200 Sierra MK @ 3200
    384417D5-1186-45BF-85FB-F2B3C096351C.jpeg



    250 A-Tip at 2850
    0D963409-C372-4AE5-A617-27F415AEF256.jpeg


    Edit: had tables labeled backwards.
     
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    walkabout

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    Wow that is stock pile lol I like smk my go to bullet. I run 183 smk and 197 smk in my 7mms. What is the bc you use on the 200 smk
    I run a G1 of 694 with my Garmin 701, can't remember offhand what G7 I use, but I'm getting 3240fps out of the 300 Norma with 90gn's of RS76.
    It is within a click out to a mile, which is the furthest I have shot out to.
    I have hit a 1moa & 1/2 moa at a mile using them in my 300 Norma and 1moa in the 300 PRC.
     

    Bandit320

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    That’s correct. I can get the 2850 with the 250s. Haven’t worked up a load yet because I’ve got a new barrel on the way and didn’t want to waste limited supplies. This was just a test to see what it would do with the factory tube.

    The 3200 was from your post.
     

    walkabout

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    That’s correct. I can get the 2850 with the 250s. Haven’t worked up a load yet because I’ve got a new barrel on the way and didn’t want to waste limited supplies. This was just a test to see what it would do with the factory tube.

    The 3200 was from your post.
    Maybe I need to have a rethink on using the heavies, but to be honest, here in the UK the max range is a mile where I am.
    The lighter recoil is nice and I'm hit the steel... Still it's nice to experiment.
    I have some 215 berger hybrid, and 230 sierras I'lll try some of them.
    Thanks for the info.
     

    Schw15

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    Maybe I need to have a rethink on using the heavies, but to be honest, here in the UK the max range is a mile where I am.
    The lighter recoil is nice and I'm hit the steel... Still it's nice to experiment.
    I have some 215 berger hybrid, and 230 sierras I'lll try some of them.
    Thanks for the info.
    At 1 mile not a huge difference but still noticeable wind. But that's if you get the 250 at 2850. Which is very doable specially in the norma. Those 230 Sierra should work great
     

    parshal

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    The lighter recoil is nice and I'm hit the steel...

    Run the numbers through JBM out to 2500. At 1500 you still get less wind drift with the heavies at 100-200 fps slower. That ends up being less recoil than the lighter bullet at faster speed or about the same. Drop is more with the heavies but wind drift is better.
     

    b2lee

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    Can I ask why you guys use heavy bullets in the PRC?
    I have been using 200gn Sierra's the new #2231 pointed out to a mile on 1 MOA plates with good results.
    Getting 3200fps with no pressure.
    Just wondering?
    Is it all about BC and wind?

    1. I like to win
    2. I've hit 1 MOA plates with most 30 cal bullets at 1 mile....but more than 50% hit rate....nope on all but 3 bullets I've used.
    3. I've run 230's over 3000fps...but I've dialed back a bit.
    4. BC really helps well past a mile. It extends my supersonic range and gives me more range for the useable elevation in my scope. My current load and scope setup can get me to about 2350 before I have to start holding over.

    But....wind is everything in ELR...if you give up too much on the BC.....you fail. Sure, you have to have really tight SD's on your velocity and get that vertical spread down....but you can work that on most any bullet....some just take more work than others....but the ability to negate more wind with one bullet over another....just hard to do without.

    5. I'm probably using less powder...and in today's world...that is huge.
     
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    Ckleeves

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    Hey guys, wanted to pick your brains on something I have never seen before. I thought I had a pretty solid load in my 300 prc but I’m getting a ES jumper in about every group.

    Lapua brass, this is the second firing, annealed on a AMP, full length sized with Redding bushing die, mandrel to set neck tension.

    Berger 215 hybrid, 78.4 of h-1000, federal 215m. Accuracy is certainly there, groups are hovering in the .4’s but in just about every 5 shot string over the Labradar there will be great ES except for one round. Yesterday’s numbers:
    2997
    2936
    2934
    2931
    2931
    I have a bunch of 5 shot groups that look exactly like this. A wild jump then single digit for the rest of the string. 90% of the time it’s the first shot that spikes.

    I’m changing primers today to see what that does, tried N565 yesterday and the accuracy wasn’t as good as H-1000. All charges are on a FX-120i (v3) so I don’t think it’s my scale. Weighted the brass and don’t see anything out of the ordinary to account for a 60fps jump. Any thoughts on what else to try?
     

    newageroman

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    Working up loads for my new mile-build/attempt. Using N565 and 7828SSC for now with H225 gn ELDMs.
    ladder loads and initial groups look promising. I'm able to get almost 3k with each powder without pressure. Have 230A-tips ready once I've got a few more rounds down it. SD was 10ish.

    This is my first attempt at serious accurate brass prep/reloading. Neck turning, co-centricity testing, dry neck lube, 4 deg champher ect. I shouldn't have to keep them super fast as I can rainbow them in with the Ivey 200MA base.
     

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    b2lee

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    Working up loads for my new mile-build/attempt. Using N565 and 7828SSC for now with H225 gn ELDMs.
    ladder loads and initial groups look promising. I'm able to get almost 3k with each powder without pressure. Have 230A-tips ready once I've got a few more rounds down it. SD was 10ish.

    This is my first attempt at serious accurate brass prep/reloading. Neck turning, co-centricity testing, dry neck lube, 4 deg champher ect. I shouldn't have to keep them super fast as I can rainbow them in with the Ivey 200MA base.

    You don't need an IVEY to get to 1 mile....with the 300PRC it is just a short poke. You will probably be about 16mils on your dial. The mile shot is both a tough personal mile stone...and not hard at the same time. With knowledge and experience you will find it fairly easy to make a hit within a few shots on a fair size target...but at first it may frustrate the hell out of you.

    With the 225 ELD-M's.....a load of 78.5gr of N565 is probably where you are going to find a happy place in all conditions... Winter-Summer...and sea level to the Alps.....in the Arizona dry...to the South Georgia humidity.

    For seating depth....do my preferred method. Take the brass in your left hand...take the 225-ELD in your right hand....hold both arms up with the brass and bullet at eye level. Now...bring your arms together to where the bullet and brass are touching parallel to each other. Now....look at the brass...do you see where the neck and the shoulder meet?....good.....Now look at the bullet...do you see where the bearing surface and the boat tail meet?....good. Now...seat that bullet to where that boat tail/bearing surface....meets that neck/shoulder junction. Shoot some three shot groups...or even two shot groups....if they aren't touching...extend that Cartridge Over All Length out by 3 thou..and continue until you find where you are shooting one holers.....extend outwards until the group goes to shit....now take the longest COAL that shoots bugholes....and as your throat erodes...and your bullet jumps...it will be good until you hit the first measurement where you saw bugholes...in relation to bullet jump.

    Generally....by the time you run out of this seating depth node...it is time to replace the barrel with 1200-1500 rounds....or more with the 400MODBB steel.

    2 thou shoulder bump is your friend.....consistency of your reloading process is your friend.

    Good luck...and remember.....Always...ALWAYS have fun.
     

    newageroman

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    great input, thanks. I've already been thinking about/checking the COAL in relation to the method you mentioned. For now I am sticking with mag len, but I do specifically remember checking to make sure they matched shoulder and boat tail fairly closely as you mentioned. I bought the Ivey for the 6.5 originally. I have preprocessed some brass, but going to hold off on loading more for now.
     

    aa909

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    Hi All

    I'm building out a dedicated 2000 yard bench rifle in 300 PRC. Weight is not an issue so I'm going with the MPA Matrix chassis, with MPA's in house barrel (MTU Profile) 1:9 twist, and Curtis Custom Action (either Helix or Valor).

    The question is barrel length (28" or 30"), and I've searched this forum and read dozens of posts and I see several folks going with 28"-30" barrels to maximize velocity. I also called Hornady and spoke to them about the whether their factory 225gr ELD Match ammo is still burning powder past 28" and they said "Yes, you can squeeze out an additional 30-40 fps going from 28" to 30".

    An additional 30-40 fps out of factory ammo doesn't seem like a big deal but I'm guessing if I eventually switch over to hand loads I should be able to squeeze out a bit more speed with the 30" barrel?

    So before making this decision I'd like feedback from folks on the board: Are there any performance downsides for the 300 PRC cartridge out of a 30" barrel for my build?

    thanks in advance for everyone's feedback
     

    gnochi

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    There are two downsides to a longer barrel, and one of them is theoretical.
    • A longer barrel technically has lower frequency vibration modes, so the induced oscillations will be slightly higher amplitude. In theory this has an impact on group size. 28 vs 30, probably not.
    • The rifle will be more unwieldy.
    Velocity is nice for something you won’t be carrying too much though.
     

    b2lee

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    I run a 29.5".....not 30...because 29.5" was what it ended up being after trimming some not perfect off the ends.

    A 300PRC makes a nice 1000-2000 yard rifle....I've loved mine so far. However....once past 1500yds.....before a mile....the 225 ELD-M's are going to perform the way you want them to.....especially 'Match' retail loads. You really want to get into hand loading and get you some precision rounds on those targets....the muzzle velocity extreme spread is going to eat your lunch at 2k....and the BC of the ELD-M...while good...is NOT consistent from bullet to bullet. Go with some A-Tips...or some Bergers.

    Anyway....I hope you enjoy your 300PRC as much as I have mine.
     

    aa909

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    There are two downsides to a longer barrel, and one of them is theoretical.
    • A longer barrel technically has lower frequency vibration modes, so the induced oscillations will be slightly higher amplitude. In theory this has an impact on group size. 28 vs 30, probably not.
    • The rifle will be more unwieldy.
    Velocity is nice for something you won’t be carrying too much though.
    Thanks, this will be a bench rifle so I'm not too worried about it being unwieldy, but you make an interesting point regarding oscillation amplitude. Hopefully the thicker MTU profile will minimize this potential issue.

    looong barrel w low mount + big brake/supressor + lots of elevation ~ blurry scope? but 30" does sound nice.
    Definitely a consideration, but do you think that's going to be noticeably different between 28" & 30"?

    I run a 29.5".....not 30...because 29.5" was what it ended up being after trimming some not perfect off the ends.

    A 300PRC makes a nice 1000-2000 yard rifle....I've loved mine so far. However....once past 1500yds.....before a mile....the 225 ELD-M's are going to perform the way you want them to.....especially 'Match' retail loads. You really want to get into hand loading and get you some precision rounds on those targets....the muzzle velocity extreme spread is going to eat your lunch at 2k....and the BC of the ELD-M...while good...is NOT consistent from bullet to bullet. Go with some A-Tips...or some Bergers.

    Anyway....I hope you enjoy your 300PRC as much as I have mine.
    Thanks for the feedback. I assume in the above in bold you meant "aren't going to perform"?

    Good feedback on the A-Tips and Bergers for custom loads, will definitely prioritize these options. Problem right now is the lead times for custom builds is 5-6 months so at least I'll have time to find factory ammo as well as custom hand loads LOL!

    I have 28” and 30” magnum barrels.
    No complaints.
    My next 338 barrel is going to be 32”

    Excellent! thanks for the feedback, 30" barrel it is 💪
     

    dang472

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    I’ll try to add to this thread before starting a new one. I ordered up a 300prc conversion kit for my Desert Tech SRS A1 this summer for an elk hunt. I ended up developing a load for the 220gr ELDXs using Hornady brass (all I could find at the time) 77.6gr of H1000, and CCI250s. That load had single digit SD with an average velocity of 2,850 from a 26” barrel. I kinda wanted 2900 but they were more inconsistent.

    Anyways, I shot 76 rounds during load development and dope verification out to 850 yards before my hunt. Every round I loaded was from brand new Hornady brass that I did a quick pass through a full length sizing die to straighten out the necks. When I got back from my hunt, I decided to size and load all of my once fired brass so everything can be put away for awhile. Upon inspection, I’ve got 15 cases that either have a crack or look close to starting a crack at the classic sign of case head separation. A couple of them have a faint ejector mark from when I was pushing for velocity a little, but most do not. I’ve pushed brass harder than this in several other guns and calibers and have never had a concern about case head separation after the fist firing.
    Obviously I have either a headspace issue or a bad batch of brass, or a combination of both. I need to track down a headspace gauge and I’ll shoot a round this weekend to compare my fired brass to a new resized one.
    A9EB5224-3853-4657-AC28-E3015C87C0B3.jpeg
    AFC952A9-C0F0-4027-8B8C-EF408D6E78AE.jpeg
    10A1BADB-DE01-4ED3-A29F-709AF316894E.jpeg
    50631E89-FF20-41B8-BF98-EA3E9056F0D6.jpeg
     

    Schw15

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    I’ll try to add to this thread before starting a new one. I ordered up a 300prc conversion kit for my Desert Tech SRS A1 this summer for an elk hunt. I ended up developing a load for the 220gr ELDXs using Hornady brass (all I could find at the time) 77.6gr of H1000, and CCI250s. That load had single digit SD with an average velocity of 2,850 from a 26” barrel. I kinda wanted 2900 but they were more inconsistent.

    Anyways, I shot 76 rounds during load development and dope verification out to 850 yards before my hunt. Every round I loaded was from brand new Hornady brass that I did a quick pass through a full length sizing die to straighten out the necks. When I got back from my hunt, I decided to size and load all of my once fired brass so everything can be put away for awhile. Upon inspection, I’ve got 15 cases that either have a crack or look close to starting a crack at the classic sign of case head separation. A couple of them have a faint ejector mark from when I was pushing for velocity a little, but most do not. I’ve pushed brass harder than this in several other guns and calibers and have never had a concern about case head separation after the fist firing.
    Obviously I have either a headspace issue or a bad batch of brass, or a combination of both. I need to track down a headspace gauge and I’ll shoot a round this weekend to compare my fired brass to a new resized one. View attachment 7730184View attachment 7730185View attachment 7730186View attachment 7730187
    I think you nailed it headspsce, brass or over pressure. I've had some bad Hornady brass in past but can't speak on 300 prc Hornady brass.
     

    newageroman

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    wow, good catch. I've had that from 6.5 Horn brass when I was sizing it way too much (learning). Even then it took 4 or 5 loadings. I now bump minimally...Not saying that's the case here.
    That Chassis looks awesome. I just scored ~75 new ADG cases
    I'm about to load some more mild-moderate loads and try this weekend after the local match.
    I just ordered an AMP Annealer, I guess my question now is should I anneal size and neck trim the virgin cases, or shoot them all once then do all that?
    My max yardage right now is 1250 so I can load them nice and soft for initial fire forming and look for higher vel nodes on the next round.