I have been eyeballing the savage 110 BA stealth in 300 win mag and am thinking about popping on one. Can any owners lock me onto the good bad and ugly.
- Thread starter Jackwagon6
- Start date
Sounds more like athletes foot. You can use a cream or a spray to get rid of that itch. I'd rather amputate my foot than get a savage.
I have a few savages, but not sure I'd buy another. The two downsides that bother me are extraction problems (older 110 in 308) and not being able to get a trigger anywhere near as good as a timney in a R700. I've never shot an acratrigger, so can't comment on them.
Sounds like a lot of dislike for savage. Lol does anyone of any information on why not. I seen the extraction problems in the older 308. Any accuracy problems?
My old 110 308 shot decent with the factory 20" barrel. Now wearing a shilen select match barrel it shoots as good or better than two smith built R700's with high quality barrels. I have two other savages, but they're factory sporters, so not really meant for shooting groups. Accuracy isn't my gripe. They will always just be a savage.
FWIW, I had a 700P in 300win mag and really liked it. If I were looking for similar today, I would also take a look at a Tikka, but I don't have any exp with them.
FWIW, I had a 700P in 300win mag and really liked it. If I were looking for similar today, I would also take a look at a Tikka, but I don't have any exp with them.
I'm surprised there's been this many negative comments and still crickets from the fanboys. They'll be along shortly to tell you that they all shoot .5moa all day every day and are as good as anything else.
I had an old 10FP years ago that shot well (3/4 moa) and I've seen a few others that did well, but I've seen far more that were mediocre. They're still .5moa guns though, except for the day others are around to witness. Beyond that they're just a clanky econo rifle. Years ago when they were $300-$400 they had some merit but at their current prices there are far better choices without settling as much.
IIRC the model you're referring to is their flagship model and is up there in price, the chassis is also atrocious if it's the one I'm thinking about. I'd look into doing a semi custom build and dropping it in a decent chassis. This is easily accomplished under $2K these days and results in a quality build.
I have a good video of my 110 BA 338 Lapua exploding in my face... I don't buy savage anymore. Some good video comparisons of how the Savage bolt and barrel are face to face, while the Remington 700 action actually fits into the barrel when locked. Whether or not that makes a difference in over pressure or issues, who knows... but after my last savage, I feel much safer with the Remington.
I went the "budget" route and bought the 24 inch 5R 300 win barreled action (or buy one with the cheapest stock and toss/sell it), then put it in a MDT ESS chassis and did a timney trigger. Consistent 1/2-3/4 MOA 5 shot groups, and im hitting 2990 FPS with Hornady 208s with sub 5 SD. When I shoot out the barrel (and im shooting 150-200 rounds a month, so it wont last too long!) I will likely just have someone put a fancy barrel in it and leave the rest as is.
I really feel even the basic R700 bolt has a lot smoother engagement than the Savage does, plus a ton more choices on chassis and accessories. The savage rifles shoot for factory rifle just fine, I just don't trust pushing them to the limits. All the ones ive played with were 1 MOA or better with good ammo, and ive had a couple of the FPSR 10 series 308 guns, but the problem is it just feels like a $400 rifle. The big kicker that made me swear off them though was the terrible customer service, and the way they treated me after their rifle exploded. They are on the short list with Sig, who wont see any more of my money either.
I like my savage.
Does it have great extraction?
Not really.
Is it super smooth.
No.
Is it super sexy?
No.
Is it accurate?
Yes, after I installed a Shilen prefit.
Does it feed well?
Yes, after I got rid of factory bottom metal and mags.
Does the trigger suck.
No, it's pretty decent actually with target trigger spring.
Would I be happier with mausingfield or other custom action?
Yes.
Would I shoot better with fancy custom action?
No
Would fancy custom action be better for competition use?
Certainly.
Do I need fancy custom action for my use?
Certainly not.
If person could swing cost of fancy custom action would I sway them to go savage route instead?
Hell no!
Does it have great extraction?
Not really.
Is it super smooth.
No.
Is it super sexy?
No.
Is it accurate?
Yes, after I installed a Shilen prefit.
Does it feed well?
Yes, after I got rid of factory bottom metal and mags.
Does the trigger suck.
No, it's pretty decent actually with target trigger spring.
Would I be happier with mausingfield or other custom action?
Yes.
Would I shoot better with fancy custom action?
No
Would fancy custom action be better for competition use?
Certainly.
Do I need fancy custom action for my use?
Certainly not.
If person could swing cost of fancy custom action would I sway them to go savage route instead?
Hell no!
Rifle Basix makes a really good trigger for the Savages and Sharp Shooter Supply sells upgraded extraction kits and Criterion, Shilen, Pac Nor, Bugholes and a gazillion other companies sell good prefit barrels. You can pick up a Savage long action pretty cheap and go with an XLR chassis which is far ahead of the factory stealth chassis in terms of features and quality and the stainless barrel of your choice for less $ than the Stealth.
This is sound logic.
And like steelhead said. Is there better options? definitely yes.
Will a savage work just fine for you? That depends on your needs and expectations.
I have found Savages to run pretty decent with a little time and effort when using ai mags
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Regardless of the rifle the .300 win mag is the best damn cartridge ever in my humble opinion. It can take game from varmits and deer with the lighter bullets and be loaded down for such, or take elk, moose, and bear with the heavies. It's an inherently accurate cartridge with readily available components and all types of factory ammo. It can come close to competing with a .338 Lapua mag if loaded with the 230 Berger Hybrid. It's just an all around bad motherfucker!! When it hits a plate at 1000 yards it swings that fucker and makes a BONG instead of a ding. Sick Cartridge.
I had a Savage 300WM as a beater rifle but ended up selling it. I still have a couple of Savages as beater rifles that I don't have to care about scratching or screwing up. I won't say anything that others in the thread haven't already.
A Savage would probably work depending on your purposes. But I would also encourage you to look elsewhere regardless. It will leave you wanting something better.
A Savage would probably work depending on your purposes. But I would also encourage you to look elsewhere regardless. It will leave you wanting something better.
jackwagon6,
As a Savage fanboy I gotta say, they are good, but not really over the top great.
First, extraction/ejection. I have "0" issues with my .223 model 10 FCP. My model 10 that I put my 7mm-08 Shilen barrel in does not eject anymore. The ejector pin got jammed in it's hole when I ran some hot rounds through it. It appears to me the pin wasn't hardened enough and peened itself in there. I removed the retaining roll pin and it wouldn't come out. That needs to get fixed. But, as for extraction it's much better than a Remington. It's pretty much the same system as post-'63 Winchesters A much stronger extractor. Tikka's have a better extractor than Remington. And the way their system works it's one deal for extraction/ejection not two like Savage, Winchester, and Remington. Of course, the Mauser claw that Winchester uses is the best, but a lot of people don't like it for accuracy type rifles. The cartridge has to feed up into the bolt face before it can fully chamber. This puts side stresses on it if it doesn't come up into the face cleanly.
Barrels, this is where Savage shines. They button rifle their barrels, and it's proven to be one of the most accurate methods of rifling. Run the button(s) through, it hardens the inside of the barrel out. Several top barrel makers use this method, including Lilja and Schneider.
Tikka cold hammer forges their barrels and so does Remington and Winchester. Tikka does it differently though and it's more like cold rolling a barrel. Instead of inducing all the stresses into a barrel with the system Remmy and Winchester use. Both systems take a pre-drilled billet and insert a mandrel with the type of rifling they make. Tikka's system takes the barrel and smashes it down around the mandrel with big rollers. The stresses induced are linear with the grain of the barrel steel. This is much easier to get normalized after forming the barrel. Normalizing is alleviating the stresses induced while forming. Rem. and Win take a four jaw, machine and that smashes the billet down around the mandrel. Depending on the type of barrel, the jaws vary in length. But, everywhere those jaws smash, they induce stresses perpendicular to the grain of the barrel. And, those are the hardest stresses to alleviate. That's why Remmy's and modern Winchesters are known for walking.when they get hot. Pre-'64 Win's were cut-rifled still. Which induces the least stress in a barrel. Many top barrel makers use this system including Bartlein and Krieger.
Obviously, the quality control is less in a mass produced rifle barrel vs. a custom barrel. But, there are better, more effiecient ways to produce quality needed at a high volume.
It's been said that Savage actions are lighter and not as stiff as Remmy's I'd have to agree. But, I can't speak for the BA series as I've not plumbed any of them. Tikka on the other hand produces a stronger action yet as the sides go higher and curve, lending more strength. Savage target actions are built like that, but I don't think the BA's are. All these actions are strong enough where the barrel fits in to the receiver. Just the strength of the action throughout lends itself to stiffness, thus accuracy. As far as blowing a rifle up, every kind of rifle as been blown up one way or another and people get killed. The first thing to do is not do something that will make your rifle blow up. Like shooting after you had a squib shot, not checking to see if a bullet is stuck there.
As far as stocks go, tupperware is tupperware, no matter who makes it. In the heat it'll turn into a rubber band. Wood will warp. Laminates are good if they don't come unglued. If you can get a chassis or an aluminum bedding block it will help tremendously. High level (carbon, fiberglass, kevlar) composites are good too, but expensive. Just like an action, stiffness throughout is what you want. And the action needs to sit in it like you welded it in. This is the one fault I have with Tikka. It's either wood, tupperware or really expensive. And not a strong aftermarket. Of course, Remington is king when it comes to aftermarket stuff for them.
So, will the Savage do what you need? Yes, Are there more cost effective rifles out there? I doubt it. Look around though, you might find one. But, make sure you get the good options with your Savage purchase and not pay high dollar for the lesser model. If you want to build a rifle up the way you want it, Remington would be the easiest way to go. Savage is getting a lot of aftermarket parts now though.
Added: For those who doubt Savages capability, a few years ago at Bisley, Savage shooters won all but one competition. This is like the world championship of rifle shooting held every four years. Contrary to popular belief the barrels were not custom, they were stock Savage. They were picked through to get the best shooters. I've yet to see any other national or international rifle maker do that.
As a Savage fanboy I gotta say, they are good, but not really over the top great.
First, extraction/ejection. I have "0" issues with my .223 model 10 FCP. My model 10 that I put my 7mm-08 Shilen barrel in does not eject anymore. The ejector pin got jammed in it's hole when I ran some hot rounds through it. It appears to me the pin wasn't hardened enough and peened itself in there. I removed the retaining roll pin and it wouldn't come out. That needs to get fixed. But, as for extraction it's much better than a Remington. It's pretty much the same system as post-'63 Winchesters A much stronger extractor. Tikka's have a better extractor than Remington. And the way their system works it's one deal for extraction/ejection not two like Savage, Winchester, and Remington. Of course, the Mauser claw that Winchester uses is the best, but a lot of people don't like it for accuracy type rifles. The cartridge has to feed up into the bolt face before it can fully chamber. This puts side stresses on it if it doesn't come up into the face cleanly.
Barrels, this is where Savage shines. They button rifle their barrels, and it's proven to be one of the most accurate methods of rifling. Run the button(s) through, it hardens the inside of the barrel out. Several top barrel makers use this method, including Lilja and Schneider.
Tikka cold hammer forges their barrels and so does Remington and Winchester. Tikka does it differently though and it's more like cold rolling a barrel. Instead of inducing all the stresses into a barrel with the system Remmy and Winchester use. Both systems take a pre-drilled billet and insert a mandrel with the type of rifling they make. Tikka's system takes the barrel and smashes it down around the mandrel with big rollers. The stresses induced are linear with the grain of the barrel steel. This is much easier to get normalized after forming the barrel. Normalizing is alleviating the stresses induced while forming. Rem. and Win take a four jaw, machine and that smashes the billet down around the mandrel. Depending on the type of barrel, the jaws vary in length. But, everywhere those jaws smash, they induce stresses perpendicular to the grain of the barrel. And, those are the hardest stresses to alleviate. That's why Remmy's and modern Winchesters are known for walking.when they get hot. Pre-'64 Win's were cut-rifled still. Which induces the least stress in a barrel. Many top barrel makers use this system including Bartlein and Krieger.
Obviously, the quality control is less in a mass produced rifle barrel vs. a custom barrel. But, there are better, more effiecient ways to produce quality needed at a high volume.
It's been said that Savage actions are lighter and not as stiff as Remmy's I'd have to agree. But, I can't speak for the BA series as I've not plumbed any of them. Tikka on the other hand produces a stronger action yet as the sides go higher and curve, lending more strength. Savage target actions are built like that, but I don't think the BA's are. All these actions are strong enough where the barrel fits in to the receiver. Just the strength of the action throughout lends itself to stiffness, thus accuracy. As far as blowing a rifle up, every kind of rifle as been blown up one way or another and people get killed. The first thing to do is not do something that will make your rifle blow up. Like shooting after you had a squib shot, not checking to see if a bullet is stuck there.
As far as stocks go, tupperware is tupperware, no matter who makes it. In the heat it'll turn into a rubber band. Wood will warp. Laminates are good if they don't come unglued. If you can get a chassis or an aluminum bedding block it will help tremendously. High level (carbon, fiberglass, kevlar) composites are good too, but expensive. Just like an action, stiffness throughout is what you want. And the action needs to sit in it like you welded it in. This is the one fault I have with Tikka. It's either wood, tupperware or really expensive. And not a strong aftermarket. Of course, Remington is king when it comes to aftermarket stuff for them.
So, will the Savage do what you need? Yes, Are there more cost effective rifles out there? I doubt it. Look around though, you might find one. But, make sure you get the good options with your Savage purchase and not pay high dollar for the lesser model. If you want to build a rifle up the way you want it, Remington would be the easiest way to go. Savage is getting a lot of aftermarket parts now though.
Added: For those who doubt Savages capability, a few years ago at Bisley, Savage shooters won all but one competition. This is like the world championship of rifle shooting held every four years. Contrary to popular belief the barrels were not custom, they were stock Savage. They were picked through to get the best shooters. I've yet to see any other national or international rifle maker do that.
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I really like Savage for a cheap hunting rifle, because they are accurate enough for the price (minute of coyote). For a long range precision piece though, buy the cheapest long action you can, throw it in a chassis/stock and buy a nice prefit barrel for it. I am sure you will be just over price point of the BA Stealth with a chassis/stock you personally prefer, and it will be more precise.
Pulled the factory barrels off six different blued savages and every one had shot/blast media in the action threads
I have two savage, a 110 7mm Rem mag and a 10T in 308. Not a problem with either. Probably shot 600 -650 rounds through the 10T. Both stock except threaded the 7 and put a break on it.
Pic is from this spring I use as an example to those getting into loading. 3 in the center were win brass which is my load and brass. I loaded two hornady with same load, those are the two flyers. That was the 308.
Both guns shoot, are they as nice as my custom 700? No. Are they as nice as my new Tikka, no. Both Savages are newer (within 5-6 yrs) and put deer in the freezer.
Pic is from this spring I use as an example to those getting into loading. 3 in the center were win brass which is my load and brass. I loaded two hornady with same load, those are the two flyers. That was the 308.
Both guns shoot, are they as nice as my custom 700? No. Are they as nice as my new Tikka, no. Both Savages are newer (within 5-6 yrs) and put deer in the freezer.
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Boy, some people are judgmental on this forum. Here's my experience with Savage. They either shoot great or awful. It's like playing the lottery. I've had them both ways. Get what you want.
How they shoot might be a lottery... but whether or not they are pieces of shit is as certain as the sun rising in the morning.
Piece of shit compared to what? And, in what way?
Last year my friend daughter 16 +- years old have very cheap 300WM rifle low end scope , but she go hunt and got the deer ! ( jut in a day )
And another Friend ( he is gun store owner ) wife have very very nice 260 rifle good scope and accurate , they camp for 3-5 days but ~~~ nothing
so ~~~~ , so ~~~~
And another Friend ( he is gun store owner ) wife have very very nice 260 rifle good scope and accurate , they camp for 3-5 days but ~~~ nothing
so ~~~~ , so ~~~~
What difference does it make? This is the 642'nd "should I buy a savage" thread this year so far. Anyone that wants to know, could know. Instead, people want to talk rather than shoot. Savage actions are dogshit. It's well documented, well proven, and well known. Compared to what? Compared to a howa certainly. A howa is about 5x the rifle for equal money. Low end factory rifles being what they are, some companies offer a good value. Savage isn't one of them.
Okay...how are Howa barrels made? Not saying good or bad? Just how are they made and why is that better than how Savage makes theirs? I like Howas, and that is not a company I mentioned above, But, there has to be a reason to like or not like or prefer one over the other.
I know you know the answer to this question, so just type it out for us.
I know you know the answer to this question, so just type it out for us.
It's not the arrow, It's the Indian!!
I haven't seen a lot of good Indians shoot crooked arrows straight.
I think anyone buying a Savage is well aware of what they're buying. It's not a Remington 700. It's definitely NOT a Accuracy International.
I own Savage rifles. Rimfires and center fires. I have sold Savages and Rugers. I own a Barrett MRAD now and still own Savages at the same time. Barrett currently doesn't make a 6mm option for the MRAD. I don't know if I would buy one of the conversions, with the short barrel life anyway of a 6mm. At the cost of $1000 plus of a conversion kit.
I just bought another Savage 10T from cabala's in 6mm Creedmor. I plan on putting it in a XLR element or their new stock (Envy) when the inlet is available?
I own Savage rifles. Rimfires and center fires. I have sold Savages and Rugers. I own a Barrett MRAD now and still own Savages at the same time. Barrett currently doesn't make a 6mm option for the MRAD. I don't know if I would buy one of the conversions, with the short barrel life anyway of a 6mm. At the cost of $1000 plus of a conversion kit.
I just bought another Savage 10T from cabala's in 6mm Creedmor. I plan on putting it in a XLR element or their new stock (Envy) when the inlet is available?
They're seem to be a lot of chiefs in this thread, not a lot of Indians.
If they were really good chiefs or Indians, they could probably shoot straight arrows pretty well.
But, you make a good point. Which is also what I said above. They have some things going for them. And, they have some things not going for them. All things considered they are a decent choice to get into an affordable long range rifle, in a cartridge you may want to work with.. Howa is catching up with options. And, I'll agree with Orkan that their actions are better. But, for changing options when you want, the Savage ( 10, 11, or 12 models, not the Axis) can be done a lot easier and without high cost.
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I had one of their 22-250s. I can't recall the exact model, but it was one of their 12 series rifles with a heavy, fluted barrel. It shot ok as far as I could tell, but the action felt like it had been drug down nine miles of rough road and the bolt lift was really heavy. The accutrigger is decent for something coming out of the factory on a cheap(ish) rifle, but as stated above, its not a Timney and certainly will never compare with a Jewell. That's certainly an unreal expectation to have of a factory trigger, though. Was it the worst rifle I've ever owned? Not by a long shot, but it certainly wasn't among the best. I sold it and honestly, I'll never buy another one. As a side note, I have also witnessed a Savage rifle blow up in a friend's face (using mild factory ammunition). Maybe there's a pattern here?
My advice would be to save your pennies and buy a nice action to build one off of, or go buy an R700 LA from the pawn shop for a couple hundred bucks and send it off to LRI with a blank. For around $1600, including the action and the blank, LRI can build you an amazing barreled action under their group buy. Get a used stock you want off of the Hide PX and be on your way. Surf the Firearms for Sale section too. There's a lot of people selling off really nice barreled actions and complete rifles for killer prices. In my experience, the phrase "buy once, cry once" is a universal truth. You'll spend more money buying a Savage, realizing it isn't what you wanted, selling it for maybe 50% of what you paid and starting from scratch on a custom build. Be patient and save a few extra bucks so you can "scratch the itch" in such a way that it won't come back again.
My advice would be to save your pennies and buy a nice action to build one off of, or go buy an R700 LA from the pawn shop for a couple hundred bucks and send it off to LRI with a blank. For around $1600, including the action and the blank, LRI can build you an amazing barreled action under their group buy. Get a used stock you want off of the Hide PX and be on your way. Surf the Firearms for Sale section too. There's a lot of people selling off really nice barreled actions and complete rifles for killer prices. In my experience, the phrase "buy once, cry once" is a universal truth. You'll spend more money buying a Savage, realizing it isn't what you wanted, selling it for maybe 50% of what you paid and starting from scratch on a custom build. Be patient and save a few extra bucks so you can "scratch the itch" in such a way that it won't come back again.
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Changing options?
I guess when people are constantly tearing their rifles apart to "upgrade" them, they have a convenient excuse why they don't have to shoot.
I get it. People can't save money because they behave like meth addicts. I understand... truly. Though there are still those of us that can save money and don't behave that way. When I have a rifle built, it stays almost exactly how it was built. New barrel might sport a different contour or different flutes or something aesthetic... but the rifle is largely unchanged. I don't understand the desire to constantly change things on a rifle. If what you're looking to buy isn't what you want, then save money until you can get what you want.
I guess when people are constantly tearing their rifles apart to "upgrade" them, they have a convenient excuse why they don't have to shoot.
I get it. People can't save money because they behave like meth addicts. I understand... truly. Though there are still those of us that can save money and don't behave that way. When I have a rifle built, it stays almost exactly how it was built. New barrel might sport a different contour or different flutes or something aesthetic... but the rifle is largely unchanged. I don't understand the desire to constantly change things on a rifle. If what you're looking to buy isn't what you want, then save money until you can get what you want.
You truly understand meth addicts? I think not. Poor choice of analogy, IMO. The reason for changes/upgrades is that there are new items coming on the market all the time. The ability to adapt higher capacity magazines all the time. You may have thought you knew what you wanted 20 years ago, but a lot of things have changed. Before I jump into the big dollar custom I want to know it's a round I want to continue with. The least expensive solid platform is the place to start.
Are you saying your 20+ year old rifles won't ever change from the way you built them? Like you knew exactly how the future of long range precision firearms was going and you got ahead of the ball and made them the right way back then? The reason I ask is there is a lot of stuff that is available today that wasn't available five years ago. Howa is a perfect example of that for an off the shelf rifle. I liked their actions from the get-go. But, they didn't have the cartridges I wanted or the platform I wanted the rifle in. They had a chassis stock, but that wasn't anything to brag about.
Which again leads us to the question I asked, how are their barrels made that make them so accurate?
Are you saying your 20+ year old rifles won't ever change from the way you built them? Like you knew exactly how the future of long range precision firearms was going and you got ahead of the ball and made them the right way back then? The reason I ask is there is a lot of stuff that is available today that wasn't available five years ago. Howa is a perfect example of that for an off the shelf rifle. I liked their actions from the get-go. But, they didn't have the cartridges I wanted or the platform I wanted the rifle in. They had a chassis stock, but that wasn't anything to brag about.
Which again leads us to the question I asked, how are their barrels made that make them so accurate?
I entered this topic intending to discuss the virtues of the 300 Win Mag, but immediately discovered that the resident Savage haters had hijacked the topic in order to (again, ad nauseam) extol the virtues of 'anything but Savage' and to reduce the discussion to name calling of Savage owners. Meth addicts? Really? Swell.
Listen to yourselves, your anti-Savage bigotry has grown to the biblical.
OK, I get it, mention of the term Savage gives them the heaves. Good, they deserve it for once again boring us with their bigotry. Savage Savage Savage. There!
If you're trying to sell us something here on The 'Hide, bashing other products lets us know how your marketing strategy is configured, ...And that would be... poorly.
If that's the way you intend to do business on this site, maybe you shouldn't be doing business on this site anymore. Viciously attacking a competitor over your business logo SHOULD be grounds for revoking your approved vendor status here.
You went way too far. Personally, I wouldn't stop with revoking your vendor status, I'd actually call for a permanent ban on your IP. I AM calling for a permanent ban on your IP. I can't swing a ban hammer, but I CAN use the ignore feature. You're ignored from here on in.
What I had intended to say was that the 300WM s an excellent chambering for use on moose, elk, and those other creatures requiring extra terminal energy downrange,
For applications requiring a similar trajectory, but not requiring either the extra terminal energy, or the masochistic thrill of massive recoil, most of the more mature 6.5mm chamberings will do as well, or better.
I like my Savage rifles, and will continue to recommend them, not on the basis of tearing down all or most others, but by actually pointing out what humble virtues they actually exhibit, like better than average accuracy out of the box, with the ability to find a wide variety of solutions for a wide variety applications, and usually fairly affordably, as well.
Not hunkering, just moving on to the next topic. The bashing has become an accustomed thing, like the kid who cried "wolf!".
Savage, Savage...
Greg
Listen to yourselves, your anti-Savage bigotry has grown to the biblical.
OK, I get it, mention of the term Savage gives them the heaves. Good, they deserve it for once again boring us with their bigotry. Savage Savage Savage. There!
If you're trying to sell us something here on The 'Hide, bashing other products lets us know how your marketing strategy is configured, ...And that would be... poorly.
If that's the way you intend to do business on this site, maybe you shouldn't be doing business on this site anymore. Viciously attacking a competitor over your business logo SHOULD be grounds for revoking your approved vendor status here.
You went way too far. Personally, I wouldn't stop with revoking your vendor status, I'd actually call for a permanent ban on your IP. I AM calling for a permanent ban on your IP. I can't swing a ban hammer, but I CAN use the ignore feature. You're ignored from here on in.
What I had intended to say was that the 300WM s an excellent chambering for use on moose, elk, and those other creatures requiring extra terminal energy downrange,
For applications requiring a similar trajectory, but not requiring either the extra terminal energy, or the masochistic thrill of massive recoil, most of the more mature 6.5mm chamberings will do as well, or better.
I like my Savage rifles, and will continue to recommend them, not on the basis of tearing down all or most others, but by actually pointing out what humble virtues they actually exhibit, like better than average accuracy out of the box, with the ability to find a wide variety of solutions for a wide variety applications, and usually fairly affordably, as well.
Not hunkering, just moving on to the next topic. The bashing has become an accustomed thing, like the kid who cried "wolf!".
Savage, Savage...
Greg
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Amen to that!
Back to the OP. I owned a 110 BA HS in 338 Lapua. I never had any major problems with it in it's factory configuration. I did shoot some hot loads during load development. I did get two Lapua cases stuck in the chamber, when a friend with a Sako TRG 42 suggested/helped me load some rounds with the bullet a little more seated in the case. I pounded them out with a cleaning rod and lesson learned. Two Lapua cases ruined, not too big of a deal. Now those cases are dummy rounds.
My buddy on the other hand learned the hard way with S&B cases, where the head seperated from the case and had to be removed by a gun smith. Just shoot quality cases like a Norma if you buy the gun and reload.
Only minor issue I had when shooting groups was i could get two bullets in one hole and it would throw the third. It is a 338 Lapua and it has some recoil even with the Terminator muzzle break I had installed. It did it before and after installation. I do know some guys change the barrel out for something longer and more proven. Shilen/Critieon.
In total, I may have fired around 250 rounds down the pipe before I sold it this last winter, along with a couple other rifles(Ruger RPR)/scopes. I Purchased a Barrett MRAD so I could shoot the gen 2 razor more then when it was on top of the Savage. I basically combined the Ruger RPR and the Savage 110, with a 260 rem. and Proof 338 carbon barrel and one scope. Upgrading in the process.
I did have a hard time selling the 338. I may have only lost $200 or so, all said and done. I've had my Savage FCP-SR for sale for six months here in the PX, a lot of nibbles, so serious takers. I'm going to keep it and install a proof 6.5 carbon barrel this winter. If your considering selling down the line, it's something to consider?
Would I do it again, of course I would in a second. I like the Stealth stocks looks even more than the HS precision stock!
If the gun does it for YOU, buy it and don't look back.
My buddy on the other hand learned the hard way with S&B cases, where the head seperated from the case and had to be removed by a gun smith. Just shoot quality cases like a Norma if you buy the gun and reload.
Only minor issue I had when shooting groups was i could get two bullets in one hole and it would throw the third. It is a 338 Lapua and it has some recoil even with the Terminator muzzle break I had installed. It did it before and after installation. I do know some guys change the barrel out for something longer and more proven. Shilen/Critieon.
In total, I may have fired around 250 rounds down the pipe before I sold it this last winter, along with a couple other rifles(Ruger RPR)/scopes. I Purchased a Barrett MRAD so I could shoot the gen 2 razor more then when it was on top of the Savage. I basically combined the Ruger RPR and the Savage 110, with a 260 rem. and Proof 338 carbon barrel and one scope. Upgrading in the process.
I did have a hard time selling the 338. I may have only lost $200 or so, all said and done. I've had my Savage FCP-SR for sale for six months here in the PX, a lot of nibbles, so serious takers. I'm going to keep it and install a proof 6.5 carbon barrel this winter. If your considering selling down the line, it's something to consider?
Would I do it again, of course I would in a second. I like the Stealth stocks looks even more than the HS precision stock!
If the gun does it for YOU, buy it and don't look back.
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I get tired of seeing people show up to class with savage's and then struggling with problem after problem. I feel passionately about it. More problems surround those rifles than any other I can remember in any of the classes I've taught or been present at. Also, RO'ing matches like the steel classic, and seeing savage's implode on guys in front of me... just a recurring thing.
I agree my language is strong and I agree I don't leave room for conversation. Though as an instructor I just get tired of always seeing the same logo on the problem rifles. It's really disheartening... because prior to those moments, those shooters ALL thought they had a good rifle.
Greg, I could care less what you think should be done to me. Savage rifles aren't a "competitor" of mine. I'm not trying to sell you a damn thing. One has NOTHING to do with the other. I think savage rifles are pieces of shit. Every single one of them. I have over a decade as an instructor and nearly 3 decades as a shooter as proof of it. Too friggin bad if someone doesn't like my opinion on the matter.
I agree my language is strong and I agree I don't leave room for conversation. Though as an instructor I just get tired of always seeing the same logo on the problem rifles. It's really disheartening... because prior to those moments, those shooters ALL thought they had a good rifle.
Greg, I could care less what you think should be done to me. Savage rifles aren't a "competitor" of mine. I'm not trying to sell you a damn thing. One has NOTHING to do with the other. I think savage rifles are pieces of shit. Every single one of them. I have over a decade as an instructor and nearly 3 decades as a shooter as proof of it. Too friggin bad if someone doesn't like my opinion on the matter.
The 4 times I've been involved with a Savage centerfire bolt "repeating" rifle have been very disappointing. One had a headspace problem with factory ammo. One didn't eject or feed well, it took two tries at least to get a round fed into the chamber - both those absolutely stock rifles and barely shot. One guy on my squad, his trigger broke in the middle of a stage. I owned one action for two days, hard to describe how bad it felt. I couldn't talk myself into building off it even though I traded a few hours work for it. GS friend built it for the guy who bought it. Rifle shoots okay but is still being messaged to feed correctly. Basically what are the chances of 4 times with no joy??? I certainly wasn't meant to be a Savage bolt rifle owner.
Okay, I shot a Savage single shot benchrest rifle that worked fine and it shot well. There's that
Another friend bought two Tikka 300wm's - staying on topic. One for his son and one for himself. His never did shoot well(okay hovering around 1moa) and his sons much better??? With stock rifles one never knows how well it'll shoot till he tries it. I'd still put my money on a Tikka shooting better than most other common makes. Oh and forgot to mention all the Tikka's I've handled fed, extracted and ejected well.
I do cringe when I see a newb dump a bunch of money into a Savage. Often they'll end up taking a big loss at resale. Remember that kid, Savage110, with his $4000 + supposed 1/4" Tacops. Too each his own but I cannot personally suggest ownership of Savage repeaters with a thumbs up. I do agree with PR Greg about saving money and selling stuff to get into a nicer rifle.
The one that surprised me is the Ruger American. Owned one, sighted in two others. What do you know, they all functioned very well and were accurate. I bought mine new for $370 and sold it for a whopping $50 loss. I don't really have a need for a truck gun beater but I know what I'd buy if I did.
Okay, I shot a Savage single shot benchrest rifle that worked fine and it shot well. There's that
Another friend bought two Tikka 300wm's - staying on topic. One for his son and one for himself. His never did shoot well(okay hovering around 1moa) and his sons much better??? With stock rifles one never knows how well it'll shoot till he tries it. I'd still put my money on a Tikka shooting better than most other common makes. Oh and forgot to mention all the Tikka's I've handled fed, extracted and ejected well.
I do cringe when I see a newb dump a bunch of money into a Savage. Often they'll end up taking a big loss at resale. Remember that kid, Savage110, with his $4000 + supposed 1/4" Tacops. Too each his own but I cannot personally suggest ownership of Savage repeaters with a thumbs up. I do agree with PR Greg about saving money and selling stuff to get into a nicer rifle.
The one that surprised me is the Ruger American. Owned one, sighted in two others. What do you know, they all functioned very well and were accurate. I bought mine new for $370 and sold it for a whopping $50 loss. I don't really have a need for a truck gun beater but I know what I'd buy if I did.
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My question to this is how much is a bunch of money? Seems like Savages get sold for half price. Therefore, they should never run more than $500. Because according to this thread you can only sell them for half of what they were origially purchased for. Yet, I'm hearing you can do a custom "on the cheap" for only $1600. Now, if you are not taking a rifle out more than five-six times a year, does a custom make sense? Not unless you are competing with it.
Which brings us to the point of maybe not competing with it, but taking a class. That's paramount to saying there will be a more heavy use of the rifle. So, what's "imploding?" I think I described the ejector issues above, and that is true. But, saying Savage has a problem and Remingtons don't have problems with extractions isn't being truthful. There is a reason the military M700 type rifles ALL went with either a Sako or M16 style extractor. It isn't because Remingtons original system works just fine. And yeah, I have a busted Winchester extractor that is going to take me $300 to fix. So much for not being delicate, right? I slap the shit out of my Savage all the time and it hasn't done that to me.
At today's prices, Savage may not be the ultimate value in a "cheap" gun. But, they get a lot done for what they cost. I hear AI and I think who the hell will buy that for $4k?....or more. If the rifle doesn't shoot any better than a $1k rifle, you are NOT getting what you pay for..
So to the other part of the question, the .300WM. The BA, IIRC, has a brake and if you aren't used to big rifles, or shoot a lot, that will come in handy. At least your shoulder will think so. For really long range work, the heavies work well. They work better with a 1-9" twist instead of the standard 1-10" twist you find in ALL off the shelf .300 WM rifles. Meaning if you want super stable accuracy at extended ranges, it's going to help to put a tighter twist barrel on there.
The flip side is there are a bunch of new and smaller cartridges that will work just as well, without the recoil or muzzle brake. .243, 6mm Creed, .260, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 Swede, 7mm-08, 7x57 to name a few commercially available cartridges. Then there's the 'tweeners', 30-06 based cases like the .280, or the 30-06 itself. More oomph, and not as much recoil as a magnum. Short mags are kind of like this too. I will also add that unless you are used to heavy recoil, a magnum is not a good first choice. Recoil is not your friend.
If looking at shooting long range, I highly recommend you learn to reload. It's the best way to get the right bullets and load for your rifle. It also opens the door to a bunch of more efficient wildcat cartridges that are easily formed.
Which brings us to the point of maybe not competing with it, but taking a class. That's paramount to saying there will be a more heavy use of the rifle. So, what's "imploding?" I think I described the ejector issues above, and that is true. But, saying Savage has a problem and Remingtons don't have problems with extractions isn't being truthful. There is a reason the military M700 type rifles ALL went with either a Sako or M16 style extractor. It isn't because Remingtons original system works just fine. And yeah, I have a busted Winchester extractor that is going to take me $300 to fix. So much for not being delicate, right? I slap the shit out of my Savage all the time and it hasn't done that to me.
At today's prices, Savage may not be the ultimate value in a "cheap" gun. But, they get a lot done for what they cost. I hear AI and I think who the hell will buy that for $4k?....or more. If the rifle doesn't shoot any better than a $1k rifle, you are NOT getting what you pay for..
So to the other part of the question, the .300WM. The BA, IIRC, has a brake and if you aren't used to big rifles, or shoot a lot, that will come in handy. At least your shoulder will think so. For really long range work, the heavies work well. They work better with a 1-9" twist instead of the standard 1-10" twist you find in ALL off the shelf .300 WM rifles. Meaning if you want super stable accuracy at extended ranges, it's going to help to put a tighter twist barrel on there.
The flip side is there are a bunch of new and smaller cartridges that will work just as well, without the recoil or muzzle brake. .243, 6mm Creed, .260, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 Swede, 7mm-08, 7x57 to name a few commercially available cartridges. Then there's the 'tweeners', 30-06 based cases like the .280, or the 30-06 itself. More oomph, and not as much recoil as a magnum. Short mags are kind of like this too. I will also add that unless you are used to heavy recoil, a magnum is not a good first choice. Recoil is not your friend.
If looking at shooting long range, I highly recommend you learn to reload. It's the best way to get the right bullets and load for your rifle. It also opens the door to a bunch of more efficient wildcat cartridges that are easily formed.
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Steve, I agree in principle.
It's true, my standards are not especially demanding. I am not especially critical of appearance or 'feel', they being largely subjective factors. Each will draw their own conclusions there. The significant standards for me are primarily about the target. On that score, I approve of the Savage rifles I own(ed).
I don't sell my Savage rifles; what ones I've parted with have all been gifted to family, and I'm not about to push lemons on them.
I have also seen complaints about headspace issue; the ones I tracked down and investigated with dial calipers were all concerning .308 chambers. They turned out (in the ones I checked) to be hard bolt closure, but that went away when the factory ammunition was disassembled and the case only was chambered. The true issue turned out (turns out) to be a shorter throat in the Savage .308 chamber. The interference occurs because the ogive tends to get forced into the rifling.
I'm gonna call it a legitimate beef, but with reservations.
I handload, and I set my seating depth by adjusting the seating deeper until rifling marks no longer occur, then twisting the seater stem 1/4-1/2 turn shorter still. In each case, this also results in a cartridge which will fit and feed in the Savage magazine. So for my handloads, no bolt closure issues are present. This also may mean that when/if I need to start chasing the rifling, I'm starting from a point where I can chase further before I run out of rifling.
As an issue, this one has remained a constant since when I (and our MCL Rifle Team) started using Savage .308 rifles (10FP's) back in the mid-late '90's. I chalk it up to a proprietary chamber reamer spec, and live with it. I have never heard of this issue becoming a safety hazard, but I am also not completely informed about all such issues.
But for the factory ammo shooter, none of this is a plus. I have pointed this relationship out several times previously on this site over the past decade and a half.
I have also (but only over a decade ago) had magazine feeding issues where rounds would dive. In my case, it occurred after disassembling the stock and magazine spring, then reinstalling the spring backward. Once reversed, the problem disappeared. I have never experienced this issue with the Savage detachable magazines.
I have had real issues with Savage ejectors, but each and every one of them was the result of a blown primer. That's not a design or manufacturing issue, it's a handloading issue. The loads were way too hot. This is one of several reasons why i have backed away from maximal or super-maximal charges. When I look at the problem from several steps back, I recognize that I have absolutely no reasons to run hot loads, and can actually reap some benefits from running milder ones.
This is first instance where I've heard of a broken Savage trigger.
Savages have their share of complaints. I don't think they are unique in that, and I honestly do think that some of the repeated complaints seem a bit OCD to me.
I do recommend the Savage 11VT as a beginner's starter competition rifle, and I practice what I preach, having used one the the SW LR Nationals this year. I agree completely, I should not try holding my breath until one of them wins a national match (although Team Savage is not without its accolades). But they can very likely allow a new competitor to earn their stripes for that first year or two in the fray. By the time they cause the competitor to strain against their shortcomings, I believe they will have paid their way. At this point in my own shooting career, they should be all the rifle I will need for the foreseeable future.
Be all that as it may, I like them, and will continue to recommend the ones that I feel can be more useful to many who ask for such recommendations. If this makes me out to be the devil incarnate, so be it.
Greg
It's true, my standards are not especially demanding. I am not especially critical of appearance or 'feel', they being largely subjective factors. Each will draw their own conclusions there. The significant standards for me are primarily about the target. On that score, I approve of the Savage rifles I own(ed).
I don't sell my Savage rifles; what ones I've parted with have all been gifted to family, and I'm not about to push lemons on them.
I have also seen complaints about headspace issue; the ones I tracked down and investigated with dial calipers were all concerning .308 chambers. They turned out (in the ones I checked) to be hard bolt closure, but that went away when the factory ammunition was disassembled and the case only was chambered. The true issue turned out (turns out) to be a shorter throat in the Savage .308 chamber. The interference occurs because the ogive tends to get forced into the rifling.
I'm gonna call it a legitimate beef, but with reservations.
I handload, and I set my seating depth by adjusting the seating deeper until rifling marks no longer occur, then twisting the seater stem 1/4-1/2 turn shorter still. In each case, this also results in a cartridge which will fit and feed in the Savage magazine. So for my handloads, no bolt closure issues are present. This also may mean that when/if I need to start chasing the rifling, I'm starting from a point where I can chase further before I run out of rifling.
As an issue, this one has remained a constant since when I (and our MCL Rifle Team) started using Savage .308 rifles (10FP's) back in the mid-late '90's. I chalk it up to a proprietary chamber reamer spec, and live with it. I have never heard of this issue becoming a safety hazard, but I am also not completely informed about all such issues.
But for the factory ammo shooter, none of this is a plus. I have pointed this relationship out several times previously on this site over the past decade and a half.
I have also (but only over a decade ago) had magazine feeding issues where rounds would dive. In my case, it occurred after disassembling the stock and magazine spring, then reinstalling the spring backward. Once reversed, the problem disappeared. I have never experienced this issue with the Savage detachable magazines.
I have had real issues with Savage ejectors, but each and every one of them was the result of a blown primer. That's not a design or manufacturing issue, it's a handloading issue. The loads were way too hot. This is one of several reasons why i have backed away from maximal or super-maximal charges. When I look at the problem from several steps back, I recognize that I have absolutely no reasons to run hot loads, and can actually reap some benefits from running milder ones.
This is first instance where I've heard of a broken Savage trigger.
Savages have their share of complaints. I don't think they are unique in that, and I honestly do think that some of the repeated complaints seem a bit OCD to me.
I do recommend the Savage 11VT as a beginner's starter competition rifle, and I practice what I preach, having used one the the SW LR Nationals this year. I agree completely, I should not try holding my breath until one of them wins a national match (although Team Savage is not without its accolades). But they can very likely allow a new competitor to earn their stripes for that first year or two in the fray. By the time they cause the competitor to strain against their shortcomings, I believe they will have paid their way. At this point in my own shooting career, they should be all the rifle I will need for the foreseeable future.
Be all that as it may, I like them, and will continue to recommend the ones that I feel can be more useful to many who ask for such recommendations. If this makes me out to be the devil incarnate, so be it.
Greg
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Hey, I like you guys! It's okay if we disagree about some things. I hope you don't judge me as an unreasonable person because of my above experiences. As you guys know, by seeing my comments in other threads, i'm picky about what I like and what I don't like. I find it extremely frustrating if I buy something and it doesn't work like it's supposed to and so far from personal experience it is what it is.
Even though there is no perfect track record from any manufacturer, can we say that Savage repeaters have a worse track record than the other manufactures as far as having reliable function??? I don't think that is a stretch to say so.
You may laugh but I consider myself somewhat frugal. That's why I try to buy good used stuff whenever possible, though I do buy new and "on sale" quite a bit. I find the greatest value in a product if it works well even if it costs more. The buy once cry once creed pays good dividends. Bought my M700 custom used and sold it 7 years later at a $100 loss, not counting the 4 barrels I burned through. Overall it was a good running rig.
I suppose if like you Greg L, who wants to never resell, then there is no loss. It's the young guy making $13 an hour who has a kid on the way, etc, that has one chance, all things considered, to choose the best action he can to last a good portion of his adult life. This is the guy I'm going to point straight to a Tikka as the #1 choice right now for a moderately priced stock rifle and a great choice for a action to build onto later in life. In fact I've done just that when I get the chance.
Sand, I'm sure you've seen the Savages for sale that some guy must have $2500- $3000 into but selling for half that, big loss. Vs someone who put $1200 into his build and selling it for $600.
Sands quote; At today's prices, Savage may not be the ultimate value in a "cheap" gun. But, they get a lot done for what they cost. I hear AI and I think who the hell will buy that for $4k?....or more. If the rifle doesn't shoot any better than a $1k rifle, you are NOT getting what you pay for..
I'm not big on AI's either mainly because I like 90 degree bolt throw and single stage triggers but I must admit that it has the highest reliability track record of any modern bolt rifle. If my life depended on a rifle, and it's track record, it'd be the top consideration, so to me a $4000 life insurance policy isn't looking too expensive. If I was LE and was ordered to use a Savage, I'd quit and get a job elsewhere. Then again, I know people who consider $4000 pocket change.
If you bought a Savage without complaint, rock on.
Even though there is no perfect track record from any manufacturer, can we say that Savage repeaters have a worse track record than the other manufactures as far as having reliable function??? I don't think that is a stretch to say so.
You may laugh but I consider myself somewhat frugal. That's why I try to buy good used stuff whenever possible, though I do buy new and "on sale" quite a bit. I find the greatest value in a product if it works well even if it costs more. The buy once cry once creed pays good dividends. Bought my M700 custom used and sold it 7 years later at a $100 loss, not counting the 4 barrels I burned through. Overall it was a good running rig.
I suppose if like you Greg L, who wants to never resell, then there is no loss. It's the young guy making $13 an hour who has a kid on the way, etc, that has one chance, all things considered, to choose the best action he can to last a good portion of his adult life. This is the guy I'm going to point straight to a Tikka as the #1 choice right now for a moderately priced stock rifle and a great choice for a action to build onto later in life. In fact I've done just that when I get the chance.
Sand, I'm sure you've seen the Savages for sale that some guy must have $2500- $3000 into but selling for half that, big loss. Vs someone who put $1200 into his build and selling it for $600.
Sands quote; At today's prices, Savage may not be the ultimate value in a "cheap" gun. But, they get a lot done for what they cost. I hear AI and I think who the hell will buy that for $4k?....or more. If the rifle doesn't shoot any better than a $1k rifle, you are NOT getting what you pay for..
I'm not big on AI's either mainly because I like 90 degree bolt throw and single stage triggers but I must admit that it has the highest reliability track record of any modern bolt rifle. If my life depended on a rifle, and it's track record, it'd be the top consideration, so to me a $4000 life insurance policy isn't looking too expensive. If I was LE and was ordered to use a Savage, I'd quit and get a job elsewhere. Then again, I know people who consider $4000 pocket change.
If you bought a Savage without complaint, rock on.
Steve123,
We like you too. That's why I try to keep these discussions civil. I like Ork too. Even when he's being uncivil. Where I came from orneriness is a quality.
That said I teach people shoot too. I don't teach high end classes though. So, you and Ork's points are well taken. I do not have the experience across the board of Savages having mishaps. That is the limited cross section of people I teach, not that they aren't problem rifles. I have run into problems with them and Remington and Winchester. I was thoroughly impressed with Tikka's when I first saw them en masse. Old Mausers customised right are great too. I see a large majority of them done wrong. And, without aftermarket parts, the end up never fully being the rifle you wished for. They are tough as nails, though.
As an entry level rifle to long range they are pretty good. Ultimately, if you want to stay with this hobby or profession you'll want the best you can get. That's all things considered, not just shooting well.
We like you too. That's why I try to keep these discussions civil. I like Ork too. Even when he's being uncivil. Where I came from orneriness is a quality.
That said I teach people shoot too. I don't teach high end classes though. So, you and Ork's points are well taken. I do not have the experience across the board of Savages having mishaps. That is the limited cross section of people I teach, not that they aren't problem rifles. I have run into problems with them and Remington and Winchester. I was thoroughly impressed with Tikka's when I first saw them en masse. Old Mausers customised right are great too. I see a large majority of them done wrong. And, without aftermarket parts, the end up never fully being the rifle you wished for. They are tough as nails, though.
As an entry level rifle to long range they are pretty good. Ultimately, if you want to stay with this hobby or profession you'll want the best you can get. That's all things considered, not just shooting well.
??
This
Yep, they suck. Wanna shoot against my bone stock savage for a little money ?
Oh for fucks sake. Did someone hurt your feelings? He doesn’t like Savages. He didn’t shoot your dog.
This is the internet. If you can’t laugh at someone comparing Savage shooters to meth addicts then that’s a shame.
Merry Christmas
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Did you read the thread? The OP was asking about the 300 WM. It immediately became a Savage bash.
Not high quality content here on "the hide".
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