300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

[dareposte]

Anybody have some intel? I've found the same 10 posts which don't really satisfy my need to know, so am looking for any additional information.

I've tried 63gr RL-17 already and it was showing pressure signs so I'm backing off to 58 and working up properly. I didn't chrono the 63gr load but wish I had, the range was crowded and it was a PITA to do anything forward of the hot line.

I bought the 300WSM specifically to shoot the 208 AMAX's and have picked up 1k of them now, so I need to find a load it likes. I happen to have 5lb of RL17 on hand so I'd prefer to use it if possible, but I don't mind buying another powder if it's not the best for this combination. I also have some H1000, H4350, a metric ton of 4064 for the 308, and some 4831SC which all may work.

Thanks in advance

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

If you have been searching out info on this combo I'm sure you have seen my requests as well. I'll be working with VV-N-560 as well. Q.L. shows very good speeds below P-max, 2950ish. I'll be watching for your follow up posts as it must be that <span style="color: #3333FF">YOU</span> are blazing the trail. It sure would be nice to get comparable results with the 17 as the VV is kinda spendy and scarce at times.

 

[dareposte]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

Got some load data and velocities today...

208 A-Max, RL-17, 300WSM, Win Brass, CCI 250 primers
Seated 0.020" off the lands
Temperature: 65F in the shade
Rifle: Remington 700 factory barrel, 24" long

Powder, Velocity
59.5, 2615 ft/s
60.0, 2678 ft/s
60.5, 2709 ft/s
61.0, x
61.5, 2730 ft/s
62.0, 2785 ft/s
62.5, x
63.0, 2833 ft/s
63.5, 2850 ft/s

In graph form,

All the brass had severely cratered primers, but I think that may just be the rifle. No other pressure signs were noted and I wish I had brought a few more loads up into the 64-66gr range. The bolt lift was very similar for all the loads, and the primers were all cratered similarly. No flattening of the primers or other pressure signs were noted, it may be possible to push this farther in my rifle.

If the slope held, it looks like it would hit 2900 ft/s at around 64.5gr of RL-17, which is about where I want this load to be if it can get there safely.

Maybe next time!

 

[dareposte]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I've loaded up a few hotter rounds, up to 66.0gr RL-17 to try out over the chrono, maybe after work tomorrow if I get off early enough.

Projected, IF the load is safe, it should put it at about 2950 ft/s.

Notably, at 66.0gr the case is almost completely full of RL-17.

Anybody have QL that can run this?

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

Lowlight says no, no, no on providing QL data in this forum. The folks ar Neco want to sell more QL so they don't want data getting handed out for free.
It appears you are trying to do an OCW test here. Have you looked at ladder testing or accuracy from anything so far?
I am running IMR4350 in a 300 WM with 190 SMK at 2975 FPS. The rifle is a 1 in 10 finished at 26". You may be in a node with something you already have.

 

[dareposte]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

OK, not sure I agree but it's Frank's forum so we play by his rules. I'll post the results when I get to shoot what I've loaded, the old fashioned way.

 

[dareposte]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I got the 208 Amax's up to 3,070 fps running some pretty hot loads, worked up to 66.0gr of RL-17 in my rifle which was definitely on the upper end of my comfort zone. Heavy (but not obscene) bolt lift and primer craters started showing up past about 65gr, the pressure's probably too high.

64.5gr was giving me 2,920 ft/s which I think is probably a good place to be in this rifle for a max load.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I've seen it said several times that RL17 is temp sensitive. Saturday I was shooting loads for the first time in hot and humid weather that had been developed in much cooler conditions. The elevation numbers did change (for the better) slightly. 100 yard POI changed approximately 1/2 MOA up with no windage shift.
I always felt the load was very close to max pressure as it is just at 200 FPS faster than the best factory load but I saw nothing that made me think the pressure was too high in the heat vs cold.
I would heed the stiff bolt lift and cratered primers, especially if the 65.5 load shoots accurately at longer ranges.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

dareposte, those are some very promising numbers especially out of a 24" barrel. I went out yesterday with the N-560/208 A-max but the chrono was giving me a bunch of errors and it was hotter than hell (100 F)
Looking forward to your next tests

 

[dareposte]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

LR thanks for the feedback, I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what type of pressure signs this rifle is showing me. I sectioned a case today from one of the 66gr loads and it looked perfectly fine, but the primer crater/ dimple is severe enough that it keeps the case from sitting flat on the table.

I think this may be a bolt / firing pin problem more than a pressure sign, none of my other Rem 700's do it though. I've heard rumors of remington bolt's needing to be sleeved, I may look into that.

None of the primers have really flattened significantly like I'm accustomed to, but I'm using Magnum primers which may not flatten as much as the CCI #200's which I use for 308win loads.

On a side note, I'm using Winchester brass, and it's really really bad. I'm not sure if they're having QC issues or what but out of a bag of 50 pieces two were immediately scrapped due to a deformed case head, and a couple more were scrapped because they were so far out I was worried about loading them. All of them have visibly varying case neck thickness and the OAL is very inconsistent before I trimmed them. Last time I bought Win brass was in 2008 and it was pretty good, apparently that has changed. SO if you're looking to order any 300WSM brass, maybe look at Remington, Nosler or Hornady if they make it.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LR thanks for the feedback, I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what type of pressure signs this rifle is showing me. I sectioned a case today from one of the 66gr loads and it looked perfectly fine, but the primer crater/ dimple is severe enough that it keeps the case from sitting flat on the table. </div></div>

Try uniforming your primer pockets and maybe deepen them a smidge. With the Q.C. at Winchester they might have not been pressed deep enough.

I just picked up some RL-17 this afternoon. I try to run some tests next week. I'm gonna start down around 60 grns and work up from there. Q.L. shows the pressure way up on this powder, much higher than 4350 which is right next to it on the burn-rate chart. Go figure

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

Went out yesterday evening and set up the chrono and IR screens. I brought 15 rounds to test 3 at each charge weight from 63-65 grains in .5 increments. I shot all round robin style and came out with some interesting results that I'll need another trip to verify. This test was done with CCI-Br-2's instead of the WLRM primers.

RL-17 & 208 A-max. 300WSM , 28" Kreiger barrel , 85 degrees F

63 grn, Average 2912 fps , ES- 47
63.5 grn, Average 2936 fps , ES- 43
64 grn, Average 2980 fps , ES- 33
64.5 grn, Average 2988 fps , ES- 37
65 grn, Average 3026 fps , ES- 21

I saw no pressure signs at all on the brass and primers. Bolt lift was normal. I believe these readings reliable since I was set up in the evening shade and had the IR screens in operation.

The extreme spread is still crappy but seems to tighten up a little as you get better case fill. More testing to follow but so far I feel this powder / bullet combo might get me where I want to be if I can control the ES.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I have been out again since my initial testing and have settled on the 63.5 grain charge. This is yielding 2950 fps with good accuracy. I still haven't tested it past 100 yards yet but the chrono numbers are promising.

Groups were shot from a wobbly wooden bench and bipod over a chronograph. Average for 20 shots was 2953 fps with a 26 fps ES

 

[lanceshopper]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I appreciate the info, as I am working with this combo as well. I can speak the issue of cratered "LOOKING" primers in loads fired in a Rem 700. Take a look at the bolt face with some kind of magnification. You will see the there is a light chamfer in the firing pin hole. This is something they do in the manufacturing process and have been made aware of. I doubt they will do anything about it though. This condition will always make the primer appear to have pressure.

Lance

 

[Rodeo Trash]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I can't help you with the 208 grn. AMax but the load bullet combination that I was in my Rem. 300 wsm was 210 grn. Bergers w/ 64.5 grns. of H4831 and it was pushing them right at 2832. Good luck that 300 wsm it a very nice caliber.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

What primers are you all using?

 

[Rodeo Trash]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I was using Winchester LR Magnum Primers.

 

[LR-WSM]

Re: 300 WSM + RL17 + 208 Amax

I was using WLRM primers but switched to the BR-2's and dropped my ES down to an acceptable level