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.308 3000+fps?

O

Ohotnik

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Minuteman
May 1, 2011
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Continental US
I talked to a gentleman today about reloading. He explained by trimming my Winchester case length to 2in and drilling my flash hole to 2mm. While using Reloader-15 and a 150 gn sierra HPBT that i could easily throw out a round of my 1/10 20in Remington 700 and hit a quarter at 1000 yards, flying faster than 3k fps

My feelings: 150 gn is to light to be flinging 1000+ yards and i don't think the BC is high enough to stay steady past 700 yards

Has anyone heard of this? can it be done? I'm currently working 180's 175's and 168's loads off three different powder.. any suggestions?
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I know of people getting over 3k with the 155s in their .308s, but that's also with 30" barrels.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

you know anything about their loads? Accuracy? distance? I know i can hit 3k but not with any accuracy at 1k yards
smile.gif
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I was there and watched one guy testing groups and getting his chrono data. He was using Varget and I'm thinking the Nosler Custom Competition bullets. It was a Savage target rig and was shooting 3/4" or so. No clue what his rifle does at distance as he hasn't been out to a match yet. The other guy I just remember him telling me his load data, but can't remember the details. Start with a good bullet, load them out toward the lands, and I'm sure you'll be fine.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

why do this with a .308? the cartridge is just not really designed to do so. you should just go after a cartridge thats made to shoot 3000fps.

175smk going 2600 hits 1k just fine with moa accuracy and enough power to do the job.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I know the .308 can do it, it's a little tougher.. so it's more a challenge. I have other rifles that can do it. I just want do it with my .308. I've been reloading for quite a while and looking for ways to spruce it up. .308 is by far my favorite round so i'm starting there.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Factory 20" tube with a 150g, 2800 would be reasonable... but still loaded at or very near book max. 3000fps, no! 135-140g sure.

Quarters measure .95", that’s consistent groups of .0907 moa at 1000y.

Shooting quarters at 1000y, zero wind and a load with 0 extreme spread that would be a record setter, one you could make a living on.
 
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Re: .308 3000+fps?

You do realize 1 MOA at 1,000 yards is 10.4" right?
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

What the "gentleman" has suggested is pretty GD dangerous if you ask me. I agree with the first part of FM's statement. I will not cast dispersions about your character as there are a lot of folks who don't know any better. Now you know better. Stick with the 175SMK and you should be able to make 1000yd. As far as hitting quarters at 1000yds? WOW...just forehead slapping WOW!
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3000fps, no! with 0 extreme spread that would be a record setter, one you could make a living on.
</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "gentleman" is fucking retarded... </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What the "gentleman" has suggested is pretty GD dangerous if you ask me. </div></div>
+1
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MALLARD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3000fps, no! with 0 extreme spread that would be a record setter, one you could make a living on.
</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "gentleman" is fucking retarded... </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What the "gentleman" has suggested is pretty GD dangerous if you ask me. </div></div>
+1 </div></div>

1+! Thank you for summing it up.

I have shot my 155 scenars out to 1K regularly, even stretched it to 1400 yards, but that was for fun. For a good shooter, I am not claimining to be one, you can probably stay around 1 MOA +/-, depending on the day, with the 155 scenars, if you push it around 2950 - 3000 fps. That's around 10 inches +/-. Quarter? I'll pay to watch that.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Archer762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You do realize 1 MOA at 1,000 yards is 10.4" right? </div></div>

Correct, but the size of a quarter remains constant, equaling a .0907 moa load, rifle and shooter...
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the "gentleman" is fucking retarded... and so are you for even thinking he might not be... that is all, carry on </div></div>

Perhaps not the exact words I would have used, but I find it hard to disagree with even one word.

Don't push cartridges past their design limits. Use a bigger cartridge.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Yall do realize that in the Palma game we regularly run 155s at the 3000fps mark (mine go 2975fps cause that works well for me and stays supersonic at 1000, which is the reason we are after 2925 or more in our game) and they are mighty accurate.

Would you believe the current 1000 yard sling and irons record (200-17x, so that means 17 of those 20 went into a 10 inch X ring) was shot with the old 2155s? I would say thats pretty accurate.....way more so than most armchair snipers can do with a scoped rifle on a rest in ANY cartridge. :)

Now, getting 3000 out of a 20 inch bbl is sorta ridiculous...heck, the general idea to someone just "wants to shoot 1000 yards" is sort of ridiculous. You just dont go out and start zinging bullets all over creation. But some folks do....just to say they "shoot 1000 yards". Now thats retarded.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Yes John I realize you Palma guys do that and I know you have LOOOOOOONg barrels to do that with.
I was a bit startled at the notion of "drilling out" flash holes. Yes I was also concerned about pushing 3K from a 20" barrel. I know that 2mm is .0787XXXX and that many Large rifle flash holes are already .082 but upon seeing that he isn't cutting much an unexperienced loader may decide to open em up a bit more since the object seems to be drilling out the hole. I still think it is pretty dangerous advice since this "gentleman" exibits a bit of artistic liberty with the accuracy claims.
Come over and shoot the TSC with us on the 14th we have plenty of room.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

As you mention, there's a pretty big difference between a Palma rig and a 20" barrel. Exaggerations aside, the big problem is that there is apparently some desire to make the .308 Winchester into something it is not by raising chamber pressures.

Pushing pressure limits just so you can use a ballistically inferior bullet in a .308 at 1000 yards is darwinian stupidity.

Pushing barrel length limits so you can use a ballistically inferior bullet in a .308 at 1000 yards is fun.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: damoncali</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As you mention, there's a pretty big difference between a Palma rig and a 20" barrel. Exaggerations aside, the big problem is that there is apparently some desire to make the .308 Winchester into something it is not by raising chamber pressures.

Pushing pressure limits just so you can use a ballistically inferior bullet in a .308 at 1000 yards is darwinian stupidity.

Pushing barrel length limits so you can use a ballistically inferior bullet in a .308 at 1000 yards is fun.

</div></div>

Trying to get Palma ballistics out of a 20 inch bbl is stupid, I agree. Keep in mind that in the Palma game, at least internationally, you have no choice but use the 155, so you are stuck running them at 2925+. You can actually do it safely, but you need the bbl length to do so. For us, the bbl length is a positive as it gives us the 36 inch sight radius that seems to work well. Also works great weightwise.

But when folks are pushing 155s at high pressure just to play at 1000, yeah, not smart.

amor, would join you guys on the 14th but I will be at Butner shooting the Creedmoor Cup. Will make it some day, but HP matches take precedent over any other shooting I do.

John
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

+1000000000000 to all 175 SMK statements. Why kill yourself to make it work when the design was not intended to do that with!
Stick with the 175's for 1000 yards period! Unless you have that 30" match barrel.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohotnik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I talked to a gentleman today about reloading. He explained by trimming my Winchester case length to 2in and drilling my flash hole to 2mm. While using Reloader-15 and a 150 gn sierra HPBT that i could easily throw out a round of my 1/10 20in Remington 700 and hit a quarter at 1000 yards, flying faster than 3k fps

My feelings: 150 gn is to light to be flinging 1000+ yards and i don't think the BC is high enough to stay steady past 700 yards

Has anyone heard of this? can it be done? I'm currently working 180's 175's and 168's loads off three different powder.. any suggestions? </div></div>

Next time you see said gentleman could you Jap slap him for us.WE'd feel better,he might slip down a notch on the retard scale and you won't have to open your bolt with a sledge hammer.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

You can safely run 155's. I was getting 2920 with a 22". I put 4100 rounds down the tube before selling the rig. I had zero bulged or popped primers. I shot in 110 degree weather before also.

Now the quarter thing. Did he do this on the internet, because if he did, I believe him.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

The fastest speed that we have recorded from an 18" barrel was 2875 fps. That group shot a 5 shot group at ASC on a steel plate at roughly 600 yards. Oneshot976 shot the group in front of Brock.

The fastest recorded speeds Dave and I have seen from our 26" barreled 308's are 3050-3060 fps. Those loads were very accurate! We actually recorded 3100 on Daves but it was all over the place along with our nerves.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am somewhere in the vecinity of 2890 fps with 155s out of a 24" tube. They have done well to 1K </div></div>
+1 I get 2850 reliably from a 21" tube with no pressure signs...
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I get 2950 to 2980 with three different .308's, shooting 155 scenars and Varget. Barrels are, Bartlein 1-11" 5R@26", Krieger 26" 1-11" and a Rock 1-11" 5R@24". The Rock BBL. is super fast and I think I could easily get 3000+ with it, but I like the same dope for all three rifles...
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Out of my 18.5", 2850 fps or so is the peak. Shoving more powder in and compressing it down didn't seem to get the velocity up any, only the pressure. 2800-2820 seems to be the limit for sane pressures.

3000 out of a 20"? Probably not. The mere fact that he suggested trimming your brass back and drilling the flash hole to gain velocity suggests he might not know what he's talking about, the "hitting a quarter at 1000" only shows that he hasn't shot distance.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Anytime someone tells you something and includes a statement like "and can hit a quarter at 1000 yds"
Just keep moving on
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I get an ave velocity of 2900 with the 155 scenars with a charge of 45.7 RL15 out of my Kreiger 1/10 twist 24" barrel. This is using win brass trimmed to factory length.

I am sure I can get it to 3000fps no problem bumping up the charge, but how much more of a difference is 100fps?
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62Texan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get an ave velocity of 2900 with the 155 scenars with a charge of 45.7 RL15 out of my Kreiger 1/10 twist 24" barrel. This is using win brass trimmed to factory length.

I am sure I can get it to 3000fps no problem bumping up the charge, <span style="font-weight: bold">but how much more of a difference is 100fps</span>? </div></div>

Depends on the shear capacity of the bolt lugs.

Good luck

Jerry
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I have a 26" model 700 and i routinely send lapua 155 scenars down range at 3k. i'll have to get all my data when i get home from work, but i think my extreme spread was some 45fps and my standard deviation was some 8.7fps or so. as for the load, its alliant 2000mr (50.5gr) in lake city brass, wlr primers, and seated to 2.885" overall length. usually shoots around 4-5" groups at 600
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

A quarter at a 1000yds?Damn I thought I was good when we hit a Tennis ball at that range.We were using 338LM though
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Quarters are much more expensive than dimes. That's what I use for 1000
yard targets.
Also, in my testing, a 155 SMK will stop on a dime at 1000 yards.
As for flash holes, I have modified all my brass to accept 209 shotshell primers.
I also got 3750 FPS from my 18.5" 308 using 208 Amax and Bullseye powder.
I couldn't get that kind of velocity out of it before I cut it back from 30" though.

Did I tell you I am married to Morgan Fairchild?
smile.gif

Gotta go now. Time for my meds.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Good to see you out have fun, hope to see you at Larrys next shoot! Morgan Fairchild? Dude you think to much like me! LOL!
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ohotnik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I talked to a gentleman today about reloading. He explained by trimming my Winchester case length to 2in and drilling my flash hole to 2mm. While using Reloader-15 and a 150 gn sierra HPBT that i could easily throw out a round of my 1/10 20in Remington 700 and hit a quarter at 1000 yards, flying faster than 3k fps

My feelings: 150 gn is to light to be flinging 1000+ yards and i don't think the BC is high enough to stay steady past 700 yards

Has anyone heard of this? can it be done? I'm currently working 180's 175's and 168's loads off three different powder.. any suggestions? </div></div>

i love it when i hear people say stupid shit like this my usual response is i will be you your gun you cant do it and thats when the excuses come flying out
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I'm going to make a stupid observer comment. At a class, I saw a Sako completely trashed - barrel basketweaved, separated from receiver ...at first he swore he was using factory loads, but then it came out (later, privately) he was handloading and pushing over 3000 - just saying. I think he was lucky to not have more than his ego injured..
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I have never quite understood why folks want to push catridges beyond their rational limits. Think about it for a second, run some numbers, etc and you will see you arent really gaining anything by pushing another 100 fps or so when you are already over max load/pressure. And, usually, when going over pressure, you are losing accuracy. Who cares if the bullet has an inch less drift, or even worse, less drop. BFD! With what we are paying for brass nowadays, why wear your snitz out in a firing or three when it can go 20+ firings if you shoot sane loads that will probably get you better results anyhow?

And, what if you snitz goes BOOM!? Then you are really SOL.

But hey, if you want to run 3000+fps out of a 20-26 incher, fine, just dont do so around me please. :)
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

actually mudcat, my load that i am using is well within the limits of the powder that i am using. it is a progressive burn rate powder, that is supposed to keep pressures down. i was struggling to keep varget over 2850fps without having serious signs of pressure. but with this stuff i have found that it is so efficient that i am still under max load, and am seeing no signs of high pressure, and its accurate
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

"Now, getting 3000 out of a 20 inch bbl is sorta ridiculous...heck, the general idea to someone just "wants to shoot 1000 yards" is sort of ridiculous. You just dont go out and start zinging bullets all over creation. But some folks do....just to say they "shoot 1000 yards". Now thats retarded."

Mudcat-
I hope you know that there are some peoples lives that depend on me being able to "shoot 1000 yards" and do it accurately.

Ohotnic- Ive shot a .308 semi auto rifle with a 16" bbl out to 1600meters + using M118LR. thats a 175 grain round and I was at about 2600fps. Is it very accurate? no. can it get the job done? yes. Dont push velocity to an unsafe limit. get a more accurate rifle. there are rifle manufacturers that make semi auto .308 rifes with 16" bbls that shoot .25 moa. (this is not bull I did it this year.) always push a round further but dont be unsafe.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, why only a quarter at 1000? Why not a silver dollar at a Mile? And while we are doing it maybe it might be more challenging with a Red Rider BB gun.
Dont forget the camo for added accuracy.
Stupid people ought not lie together
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Another thing when thinking about when creating these loads - if you take those 3000+ loads to a different location (say across country) with significantly different temps, altitude & barometric pressure, you might be asking for some real troubles...
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Hell of a place I have decided to post on this site for the first time. Great site by the way folks. I guess I am behind the eight ball in the load development here. I am happy with my 168 SMK's muddling along at 2,580 fps from my 22" barrel. The furthest I have shot this load or this rifle for that matter is 500 yards. 500 yards all day long with this load and my shoulder feels good at the end of the day. 1000 yards for me with this load, well I think not. I have pushed the .308 using 168's up 2,730 and backed off as accuracy went to pot. My rifle and I are in a groove in the 2,580 fps range. Accurate, repeatable, shootable and forgiving on brass. I love it when folks talk up the 1,000 yard shots they make. Dont get me wrong, I have and love shooting out to and over 1,000 but you will never hear me brag about it as my skills are no worth braging about.

Ok I must brag just a tad. I made 3 800 yard shots on a buffalo silhouette using a 45-70 H&R buffalo classic with williams sights. There I got it off my chest, I feel better.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

I get 5800fps out of my 20" 308 shooting 155's! There good to 2 miles!

Sadly, it's a one time deal though. Loaded round first then a small stick of dynamite next and then, well of course, run like a fat boy chasing a cup cake!!!!
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GODsNiPeR2012</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Now, getting 3000 out of a 20 inch bbl is sorta ridiculous...heck, the general idea to someone just "wants to shoot 1000 yards" is sort of ridiculous. You just dont go out and start zinging bullets all over creation. But some folks do....just to say they "shoot 1000 yards". Now thats retarded."

Mudcat-
I hope you know that there are some peoples lives that depend on me being able to "shoot 1000 yards" and do it accurately.

Ohotnic- Ive shot a .308 semi auto rifle with a 16" bbl out to 1600meters + using M118LR. thats a 175 grain round and I was at about 2600fps. Is it very accurate? no. can it get the job done? yes. Dont push velocity to an unsafe limit. get a more accurate rifle. there are rifle manufacturers that make semi auto .308 rifes with 16" bbls that shoot .25 moa. (this is not bull I did it this year.) always push a round further but dont be unsafe. </div></div>

And you yell "Boom! Headshot!" at your computerscreen everytime you make the shot too I bet.

Put the "Call of Duty" game down, and go eat something thats not a hotpocket.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

It is not that hard to hit a quarter at 1000y you just need to do some prep work. find a nice 4 foot by 4 foot plywood sheet and paint it bright white for high visiability. place it at 1000y and lase it to insure the correct range. take temp, wind and baro.pressure into account. get good dope and your faveOrite load. assemble your best buds to verify your 1 shot hit. Then place your change on the target as shown,

k02836711.jpg


blast away and brag your ass off.
 
Re: .308 3000+fps?

Palma shooters (if shooting by international rules) are limited to 156gr. This past weekend at Ft. Knox I pulled for Maj. Dave Cloft who won the Andrus Tropy last year at NRA LR Nationals. He's shooting the new 155gr Sierra (2156) and 47gr of Varget. Not sure on his velocity but they were cracking at 1000yds so I am guessing they were at the typical 2950fps-3000fps reange that the Palma guys shoot the 155's at. However I doubt a 150gr SMK would stay sonic as it doesn't have the BC to do this. I've never heard of drilling the flash holes out on .308 cases.
 
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