My point being that good results are possible even with these powders you claim "don't meter well"
So I'll ask differently then, what issues does not metering well cause?
.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
So I'll ask differently then, what issues does not metering well cause?
OK, I'll bite. Ball powder meters from a powder measure very well. In my experience around +- 0.2gr. Extruded powder does not. It drops from a powder measure around +- 0.5gr if I am really careful.
I only have limited experience with Varget, N140 and a local powder using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure, a Lyman powder dropper, a Lee drum measure and a Lee Autodisk measure. So make of my statement what you will.
I only have limited experience with Varget, N140 and a local powder using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure, a Lyman powder dropper, a Lee drum measure and a Lee Autodisk measure. So make of my statement what you will.
I've been using an RCBS Chargemaster to throw charges with extruded powders and verifying on an FX120 for 5 years. It's always within .1 to .15
I use stick powders for all my match loadings....I just use the RCBS master whatever powder trickler, it's the electronic one that comes with a scale that's pretty good and throws out a lot of power fast until it gets to a few grains from the target then slows way down, to a little bump here and there until it gets to the target. Rarely but every once in a while it will under or overcharge by .1 grains, but it indicates it if you actually look and don't just grab the powder with the beep and pour it into the case. maybe 1 out of 15ish... but I got a much older model, newer ones may be even better. I'll have to look back at when I tried Win748 best I recall it was "okay" and it's what I use for my M193 5.56 loadings but, I stuck to Varget for .308 in my CZ 600 Range (24" barrel, using M118 brass)
I don't think Win748 will ever be able to equal something like Varget I don't care the primer, brass, rifle, etc. I got down to 6fps SD's with Varget and some case mouth lube, that's not happening with Win 748. You also have a LONG barrel for .308 though and that may help smooth out things more though.
I run an RCBS charge master.
Varget, this that all of it.
It pretty much stays within 1/2 to 1 tenth grain as a result from two other electronic scales and one balance beam I checked it with.
I can off a bench with heavy bags shoot and print the difference between 0.1g in several rifles.
Disclaimer: no adverse environmental, short range for development porposes.
You can run a ceiling fan on low only, helps mix air. But you can not have temperature changes of any kind especially an air conditioning duct cycling on and off as the cold air drops strait down as it shuts off.
I also run some ammo in a dillon and use their powder dispenser. It runs + / - 0.1g all day everyday till you start acting stupid.
Many products will repeat as long as they are ran consistently.
It's normally operater error.
I had an exception that was a Hornady dispenser. I took it outside and beat it to a pulp with a 4 foot long piece of drill stem, problem solved.
Varget, this that all of it.
It pretty much stays within 1/2 to 1 tenth grain as a result from two other electronic scales and one balance beam I checked it with.
I can off a bench with heavy bags shoot and print the difference between 0.1g in several rifles.
Disclaimer: no adverse environmental, short range for development porposes.
You can run a ceiling fan on low only, helps mix air. But you can not have temperature changes of any kind especially an air conditioning duct cycling on and off as the cold air drops strait down as it shuts off.
I also run some ammo in a dillon and use their powder dispenser. It runs + / - 0.1g all day everyday till you start acting stupid.
Many products will repeat as long as they are ran consistently.
It's normally operater error.
I had an exception that was a Hornady dispenser. I took it outside and beat it to a pulp with a 4 foot long piece of drill stem, problem solved.
Can't speak to the eld-vt, been wanting to try them. I know the 175 TMK is money at 1000.
Nope. Originally wanted to try 215 Bergers with a Wyatt box to run a longer OAL but I must have gotten an early production BAT Bumblebee action because it would not fit. Turns out, even after I sent dummy rds to JGS with the 215 where I wanted it, the OAL was coming back too long and wouldn't have worked anyway. Ended up with Hawkins hunter bottom metal and can run up to a 2.950 OAL in the mag. If I remember correctly the free bore is .114.
Played with multiple bullets through the years with many different .308's and never saw the raw accuracy, consistency and ease of tuning as the 185 Jugg. I'm still messing around with the 215 Berger, but single feed. So far N550 has produced the best velocity and I will shoot the 185 and 215 side by side at 1K to see which one does better.
Played with multiple bullets through the years with many different .308's and never saw the raw accuracy, consistency and ease of tuning as the 185 Jugg. I'm still messing around with the 215 Berger, but single feed. So far N550 has produced the best velocity and I will shoot the 185 and 215 side by side at 1K to see which one does better.
Im wanting to use a factory 308 barrel, mag fed. I could add some freebore to it, with the proper tools
Glad I'm not the only one who does that.
Although I typically use an 8 lb sledge on an elm stump. It helps guarantee that one POS tool won't make it back into rotation.Mike
I like their ELD-VT, their ELD-M didn't shoot very well for me, but forwhatever reason, the VT shoots well. And my rifle LOOOVES their A-tips.... pricey but it shoots the tightest group with them of everything I have tried. Which would be ELD-M, ELD-VT, (The A-tip) Berger Juggernauts, SMK 168, SMK 169 and SMK 175gr. If memory serves it goes A-tip > SMK175 > ELD-VT > SMK 169 > SMK 168 > Berger Juggernaut > ELD-M.
Not Hornady's factory ammo can stay on the shelves, worst crap I have shot that's a "match" load especially for the price, but SOME of their projectiles shoot for me.... The VT's and SMK175's are close to one another in grouping, both well under 1", as in 175 SMK shooting 5/8" 5 shot groups on average, and the VT's between that and 3/4"... the A-tips though oh boy... 3/8" groups. Sucks that they basically have no terminal effect though :/ I mean a .308 is still a .308 caliber projectile moving however fast it's moving when it hits whatever it hits but.... I sure wouldn't use it for hunting. Every gel test I have seen it just zips right through making a straight pin hole track without even tumbling.
Yall are silly, use it for a target.Glad I'm not the only one who does that.
Mike
I sure as hell wanted it to work in my CZ 600 Range, but it's one of the poorer shooters for me.
I may have to try them again, now that I'm painting the graphite into the case necks as I saw that make a BIG difference in my groups. Like went from 3/4" and 10-12fps SD's to 3/8" groups and 6fps SD's. ( for the A-tips.... ah hell now I should try them all over again)What powder and primer?I sure as hell wanted it to work in my CZ 600 Range, but it's one of the poorer shooters for me.
Varget powder and CCi 200 primers, I bought a case of the CCi primers when I found them as they were hard to find any at the time, so that’s what I’m running until they are used up or what’s sup to be better becomes available at a price I can’t ignore.
I use a RCBS Chargemaster with a 2nd scale to re-measure each charge. Example... I'll throw a 42.0g charge and re-measure on the 2nnd scale and it will read from 41.8 to 42.5 when I use any stick powder.... It takes forever to load 50rnds. With the ball, I'll get 5-6 charges that are NOT right on the mark when I measure the second time. The ES will be single digit using ball powder vs double digit with stick powder. I'll stick to ball powder.... I intend to try both BL-C2 and Staball Match in this new .308 I'm building.
That's too bad you're seeing that much inconsistency, I can assure you that's not the norm. I throw with the same Chargemaster and if it says 42.0 grs, then my FX120 will read no worse than 41.9-42.1 on a bad day. And at that point I'll grab a pair of tweezers and remove or add a couple kernels to get it close enough. I'm not in this for volume and I don't like double digit velocity spreads either but in the real world of shooting a .308 at 1K or more there will be far more to worry about then the difference between ball vs stick powders.
@Mean_Man
@straightshooter1
I appreciate you guys helping me and giving me tips from this range session below when I last went shooting.
I think someone had asked about my COAL. I'm back home from work for the weekend and if anyone is still interested, that was right at 2.860" ± .004. I'm sure there's some variance there as I seat all my bullets based off my ogive measurement.
For anyone else reading this, don't take my COAL and load recipes to use in your gun. Take your own measurements and make sure you're not jammed into the lands from the get go. Also, start low and work up.
@straightshooter1
I appreciate you guys helping me and giving me tips from this range session below when I last went shooting.
I think someone had asked about my COAL. I'm back home from work for the weekend and if anyone is still interested, that was right at 2.860" ± .004. I'm sure there's some variance there as I seat all my bullets based off my ogive measurement.
For anyone else reading this, don't take my COAL and load recipes to use in your gun. Take your own measurements and make sure you're not jammed into the lands from the get go. Also, start low and work up.
It was I who asked about you COAL, and thanks. That helps me see pretty close as to what you're cartridge configuration is. As I mentioned before, it looks like you might have ~1 gr more to work with, which could still bring you over the SAAMI max depending on the temperatures you're operating within. I appears like 40.0 grs of Varget might be the load to look at, though you'll need to do a verification test to see if it's actually repeatable. Note too, that .5 grs spreads between loads it really too much where you can easily skip over a good "node" .3 grs works much better for a cartridge the size of a .308.
Wile Varget is a great powder for the .308, the 185 jugs are not the best match (IMHO). If you're able to find some H4895, you should try it. I think you'll find it a better powder for the Jugs.
For just an FYI to help give you some idea what your Varget might produce given the data you've shared, you might find this chart helpful as you do your load development:
If it works for you to jam into the lands, then go for it. But personally I don't like doing that just due to a higher pressure spike for the same amount of powder vs some jump, even if a little. If having a little jump still shoots as well or ALMOST as well, but allows you to bump up the powder charge, you may be leaving velocity on the table with minimal to no real accuracy loss. I'd try it out just to see.
Also, don't give me to much credit, I'm far from some sort of expert, there's plenty of people on here that know far more than I. I'd call myself an armature.
Do you have or know how to use Gordon's Reloading Tool? If you know all your measurements you can put all that into the program and get a model that's fairly good. You can then look at things like the difference in peak pressure between jammed and say .005" jump to see an estimate of how much that effects peak pressure.
You'll need to know things like your case H20 capacity as well though, it's almost crazy all that data you can input to get a decent model from that free software. I used it to help do sanity checks while I was developing a 9x19 sabot load using 3Dprinted nylon sabots.... off topic but I got 2,417fps from a 41gr solid copper .250" projectile fired from a G17L.
You'll need to know things like your case H20 capacity as well though, it's almost crazy all that data you can input to get a decent model from that free software. I used it to help do sanity checks while I was developing a 9x19 sabot load using 3Dprinted nylon sabots.... off topic but I got 2,417fps from a 41gr solid copper .250" projectile fired from a G17L.
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