Rifle Scopes 5-25 PM2 on an AR -which cantilever mount?
- Thread starter Brown Dog
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Thanks, but at $565, the GDI looks to be more than twice the price of, say, LaRue; can't imagine any really good reason for that.
I'm hoping someone can tell me of a 'normal' LaRue-ish price cantilever with an incline and sufficient clearance for the 5-25 saddle that they're successfully using.
I'm hoping someone can tell me of a 'normal' LaRue-ish price cantilever with an incline and sufficient clearance for the 5-25 saddle that they're successfully using.
I use a 20moa 34mm Spuhr cantilever mount and love it especially for the modularity of adding the T1 to my setup.
Thanks.
Any chance of a pic of the scope in-place, to see how it positions the scope on the rifle?
I'm sorry my reading comprehension was off earlier lol. I have a Leupold MK6 3-18x mounted not a 5-25 but if you want I can stil get you a pic.
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were asking for opinions. I must've read the post wrong.
There is a reason that you can't imagine a reason for it. That is why you are here I suspect. Read about these mounts, use your google-fu and you will be in a position to make an informed decision.
There is a reason that you can't imagine a reason for it. That is why you are here I suspect. Read about these mounts, use your google-fu and you will be in a position to make an informed decision.
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I suppose the reason I don't come on snipershide so often nowadays is silly petulant little bunched knicker answers like that. Your post amounted to no more than stating a brand. A great answer if the question had been: Please list any cantilever brands you know. If you would like to add value, happy to 'listen'. Something more than 3 letters followed by petulance would be good.
30cal: Yes please - it'd be good to get a feel for eye relief when using the spuhr, although I'm trying to get info on the mounts with the 5-25PM2. The 5-25 has an unusually deep saddle that causes it to 'foul' on some mounts. I know what works and what doesn't on 'conventional' mounts, but have no idea on cantilever.
Larue don't appear to do an incline mount; I've been offered American Defense, but 0MOA - and I can't tell at distance whether the saddle will bottom out, so I'm simply hoping for some feedback on something 'gettable' from someone who has a 5-25PM2 mounted.
I understand where you are coming from, but please understand tbat there are probably 20 good discussions on snipershide alone on good mounts and why brand x is better than brand y. I gave you a brand to look up using google. If you search that and snipershide, you will get many discussions by folks more qualified than me. If you google larue mounts and snipershide you will see the arguments for and against their mounts. I guess my point is these discussions have been beaten to death. Do you think your question is the first of its kind in the history of the internet? It is out there for you, all you have to know is what brand to type into the search engine. I provided that for you.
Bobro has been a great mount for us. Available in flat or 20MOA.
Bobro Scope Mounts Sale Bobro Mount | SportOptics.com
Bobro Scope Mounts Sale Bobro Mount | SportOptics.com
Thanks Chris, look good. Which model are you using for the 5-25 Schmidt on an AR?
The mounts that I'd recommend are the Bobro engineering dual lever mount, and the Alamo Four Star DLOC mount. Some folks on here like the American Defense Mounts, but I'm not a fan personally. I'd steer clear of the LaRue mounts all together, they have a flawed design and their mounts are superseded by far when compared to the above mentioned mounts.
As a side note, with getting a cheap mount for your S&B would be the same as buying budget tires for a Ferrari.
As a side note, with getting a cheap mount for your S&B would be the same as buying budget tires for a Ferrari.
The Saving Money Logic always cracks me up...
You're spending $3600+ for the scope but balk at a $500 mount, either Spuhr or GDI, which have been proven to be the Top Tier mounts. ( won't even get into putting a 5-25x on an AR)
Back in 90s, when rifles were less than $2k, and the only real choice for a Tactical Scope was a Leupold Mk4, Badger Rings were $200 for a set. Now we have $7,000 scopes, the average S&B scopes is well above $3600, and our rifles are topping $5k, we have guys dismissing a mount made specifically for a precision rifle because one made for an AR is cheaper. Everything has gone up in price, the machines, the materials, the rifles, scopes, etc, but here we still want to pay $150 for a $3600 scope, and expect it to do the job.
The idea you want a cheap QD for your expensive scope is pretty funny in a lot of ways, especially if you yourself stepped back and thought about the logic of it removing yourself from the question. The analogy of budget tires on your Ferrari fits perfectly. The link between the scope and rifle is a critical point in the system, so why would you consider skimping on it ? The only answer I can cum up with is, you blew your wad (of dough) on the scope and have nothing left for anything else.
if that is too "cheeky" for you... again, I suggest you reflect on what you are asking, minus your emotional connection to the question.
You're spending $3600+ for the scope but balk at a $500 mount, either Spuhr or GDI, which have been proven to be the Top Tier mounts. ( won't even get into putting a 5-25x on an AR)
Back in 90s, when rifles were less than $2k, and the only real choice for a Tactical Scope was a Leupold Mk4, Badger Rings were $200 for a set. Now we have $7,000 scopes, the average S&B scopes is well above $3600, and our rifles are topping $5k, we have guys dismissing a mount made specifically for a precision rifle because one made for an AR is cheaper. Everything has gone up in price, the machines, the materials, the rifles, scopes, etc, but here we still want to pay $150 for a $3600 scope, and expect it to do the job.
The idea you want a cheap QD for your expensive scope is pretty funny in a lot of ways, especially if you yourself stepped back and thought about the logic of it removing yourself from the question. The analogy of budget tires on your Ferrari fits perfectly. The link between the scope and rifle is a critical point in the system, so why would you consider skimping on it ? The only answer I can cum up with is, you blew your wad (of dough) on the scope and have nothing left for anything else.
if that is too "cheeky" for you... again, I suggest you reflect on what you are asking, minus your emotional connection to the question.
If I feel the need for a QD mount the 34mm Bobro is my go to. If a fixed mount is what I'm looking for, the NF uni-mount or SPUHR. I don't really need the features of a SPUHR so usually I use a NF ultralight.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ay-delivery-yes-please-beast-has-arrived.html
This thread has a pic of lowlight's 5-25 in a gdi mount. It fits. There are lots of threads discussing scope mounts and which ones people like. There are few threads on 5-25 SB scopes in a cantalever just because hardly anyone uses the scope in this manner.
There is an LT mount that has a cant and is cantalever that will fit your scope. It is an LT-745 if memory serves. If you go to the lt website I think they offer a package with the LT 104 which is similar minus the cant. You can pull up a pic if you google schmidt and bender 5-25 and LT 104. If you delve into basic discussions on mounting systems on snipershide you will have a good idea wbat you need to get. I believe lowlight said it a bit more eloquently a few posts above mine though.
This thread has a pic of lowlight's 5-25 in a gdi mount. It fits. There are lots of threads discussing scope mounts and which ones people like. There are few threads on 5-25 SB scopes in a cantalever just because hardly anyone uses the scope in this manner.
There is an LT mount that has a cant and is cantalever that will fit your scope. It is an LT-745 if memory serves. If you go to the lt website I think they offer a package with the LT 104 which is similar minus the cant. You can pull up a pic if you google schmidt and bender 5-25 and LT 104. If you delve into basic discussions on mounting systems on snipershide you will have a good idea wbat you need to get. I believe lowlight said it a bit more eloquently a few posts above mine though.
I love alamo four star, but it will not work. To my knowledge they dont offer a canted mount.
Brownie,
I hear where you're coming from my man. Here is how I would break it down....
1) I'd like to know how much eye relief you require based on the stock you have on the rifle and where that positions you relative to eye relief.
Reason: Cantilever mounts are available in 34mm ring sizes that will fit the S&B PMII but differ in the fact that some offer 1" extensions, others 2" or 3 inches of extended offset to accommodate eye relief.
Example: I can only offer you the following based on my experience in the context of how I prefer to set my rifle up.
I have a Bushy Elite 4.5-30 w/Tremor in a Spuhr mount (SP-4616: 34mm, 1.46" CL, 20.6 MOA, 1" forward offset). The optic gives me a consistent 3.7" of eye relief throughout the entire magnification range. The S&B PMII gives you 3.1" of eye relief - which also doesn't change throughout the variable magnification range. I have it on an AR10 wearing a UBR stock that I prefer to run collapsed to minimize the overall length of the weapon. When the UBR is fully collapsed my eye is placed apprx 2" from the rear of the upper receiver, leaving me with 1.7" of additional eye relief to account for in the mount. The Spuhr puts the scope (both the mount placed as far forward as possible and the optic mounted as far forward in the Spuhr as possible) 5/8ths of an inch from the rear of the receiver, giving me a total distance of 2.6125" from cheek weld to optic. Clearly not enough to accommodate for the 3.7" of eye relief resulting in my having to extend the stock 2 positions to accommodate for the excess needed.
I kept with the Spuhr for various reasons as I use their ACI interfaces on several other mounts, use the built in level, genuinely believe they're one of the best made optic mounts around, and don't want to take a hit selling it for a JP extended mount (plus I've already Cerakoted that shit) ?.
If I were you I'd look into a cantilever design that gives you a CL of 1.4-1.5" and a 2" of offset over 1". I didn't see where you mentioned a QD requirement, but I'll include QD and non-QD - using the above req's would leave you with Bobro, JP, Nightforce and Larue as options I personally know will work. ADM will have a CL of 1.55" and their levers BLOW. Out of those JP is the only one that doesn't offer built in cant (which is technically a decline not an incline).
I love GDIs QD mechanism and think they're worth what they charge (my T-1 is on a GDI), but they have the same problem a lot of other manufacturers do. I have to poke around to find out what centerline is and what length of offset is, weight, blah blah before even considering it. WTF, you want nearly $600 but don't have the f'ing time to put basic info on your product on the website? I'd still buy one though. ?
Hey, at least you have shit narrowed down to three options. Better shape than you were a little bit ago...
Some excellent answers; many thanks All, I will read in slow-time later today and digest properly.
Budget tyres on a Ferrari? I'm not sure; think that sometimes - in the days of CNC- we're sometimes falling victim to the 'cost more, must be better' brain response; with no/little difference in materials or machine time it's nice to be sure that there's something that's actually better about the 'cost more'. Interesting comments on the LaRue.
5-25 on an AR? Well, why not?! (It's what I have to hand)
This is the eye relief I get with a conventional mount - I think the PM2 needs about a 2" forward reach.
(The next tea-spill: it's a 22 conversion with a DouglasXX and ciener back-end; it has a conversion in it (forget the name) that enables the bolt hold open to work if S&W mags are used. Think it's the most fun rifle I've ever used; and extremely accurate with Eley Standard - I'm using the 5-25 for 2 reasons: 1. Short range focus 2. The simple pleasure of using crystal clear excellent optics - nothing deeper than that.
Representative (NB:representative, not best) group at 52m; and this with a standard trigger that feels like dragging a canoe up a gravel drive:
OK, this is best at 52m
Zoomed down for 50m 'falling plates' - it's fun, what can I say?!
)
Budget tyres on a Ferrari? I'm not sure; think that sometimes - in the days of CNC- we're sometimes falling victim to the 'cost more, must be better' brain response; with no/little difference in materials or machine time it's nice to be sure that there's something that's actually better about the 'cost more'. Interesting comments on the LaRue.
5-25 on an AR? Well, why not?!
(It's what I have to hand)This is the eye relief I get with a conventional mount - I think the PM2 needs about a 2" forward reach.
(The next tea-spill: it's a 22 conversion with a DouglasXX and ciener back-end; it has a conversion in it (forget the name) that enables the bolt hold open to work if S&W mags are used. Think it's the most fun rifle I've ever used; and extremely accurate with Eley Standard - I'm using the 5-25 for 2 reasons: 1. Short range focus 2. The simple pleasure of using crystal clear excellent optics - nothing deeper than that.
Representative (NB:representative, not best) group at 52m; and this with a standard trigger that feels like dragging a canoe up a gravel drive:
OK, this is best at 52m
Zoomed down for 50m 'falling plates' - it's fun, what can I say?!
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Outstanding detail. Many thanks.
Yes, 2" looks to be the requirement - as you say, therefore the Spuhr doesn't appear to have enough forward reach for the 5-25 PM2 on an AR.
Seems to have narrowed down to Bobro or GDI (can't tell if NF has saddle clearance?)
Bobro looks to be the no-brainer - I notice they also do mil discount, but I think the answer (for me) will be which of the two I can get to UK the most easily.
Many thanks for all inputs!
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You might even consider the 3" Larue. People get emotional when it comes to wait times and have not a clue what it takes to run a legitimate business which - in this industry - results in pissed off fuckers blaming Larue for all that is bad in the world. If you're mounting your optic forward of the furthest point of the upper receiver you'll eventually run into accuracy issues. The 2" probably won't be enough for that optic on an AR15 receiver set. I was hoping for an AR10 that would give you a bit more room for eye relief. Seeing that you are using an AR15 and a CTR (shorter stock altogether) you may want to even consider the Larue. I've had nothing but great results with their mounts. Not sure what their shipping policy is for overseas buyers though.
Regardless, good luck with the project. Hope the info helped!
Regardless, good luck with the project. Hope the info helped!
That was good with the factory buttstock, but I have not fired it since I put the cheek piece stock on. I may need to move it up a notch or two with the new buttstock. The mount is a 1.5" high 20moa cant. With out the cap the objective end was 3/16 maybe 1/4 inches from the rail.
I was thinking the same thing. It looks like your eye would be a half inch from the ocular. I wouldn't be surprised if you needed to move that mount to the forward most position on the upper. Nice set up though FS1...
Global Defense Initiatives. Here is a link to the GDI www.cstactical.com/optics/rings-bases/global-defense-initiatives. At this time we are out of the P-ROM more are on the way.
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