I decided to buy a Chargemaster 1500 after reading all the positive reviews. After using it tonight, I am a little nervous because the thing is so dang easy and quick. I am coming from a MXX-123, so I am used to single grain precision. I keep telling myself .10 is not that big of a deal, especially when using the OCW method. Did I just make a big mistake going this route? I already sold my other scale.
- Thread starter jpistolero02
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I'm no expert but there are many, many shooters that use them and have great results. The only way to know for sure is to load up your rounds and shoot them.
I find that with mine it helps to let it "warm up" for about 30 min before calibrating and starting loading. Also the straw mod is free and really helps to not over throw.
I find that with mine it helps to let it "warm up" for about 30 min before calibrating and starting loading. Also the straw mod is free and really helps to not over throw.
The chargemaster was a real changer for me. It sped up my loading quite a bit, and eliminated a ton of effort. You can adjust the settings on it so that it runs fast at the beginning of the cycle, then slows down considerably at the tail end, trickling in the last few tenths of a grain. If you are overthrowing, just make some adjustments to slow it down a grain earlier. There are some online instructions posted on the web by some European guy a bunch of years back.
You did not make a mistake
You did not make a mistake
I did do the mods provided by 8541 Tactical. I don't have anything to compare it to since I did it right out of the box, but I am averaging a load of 42.5 H4350 every 10 seconds. I will get a straw tomorrow as I have had a few overthrows. This thing is a game changer for me especially with two young kids.
ive dropped well over 1k VARGET powder drops with no over / under charge so far & damn near does 1 to 2 grn drops at the end of the drop... you can also pull the pen mod out to quickly empty the charge master & I've added new updated programing to help speed up the process at the end of the thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...chargemaster-optional-pen-straw-mod-pics.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...chargemaster-optional-pen-straw-mod-pics.html
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I own two and have made program changes and in all honesty I be willing bet a yrs salary that in 1000 charges your charge master will have over and under charges no matter what. I just use mine to throw charges fast and use my Denver instruments TR 603d scales to make charges correct. They aren't the holy Grail and always double check. If you're OK with .1 +/- grns then its good to go but for me I'm gonna weigh all loads to +/- .01 grns
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would you like me to PM you my address to where you can send your yrs salary? have you tried the PEN mod yet? I'm not one to BS people.
the key is to use the 1-1/2" pen inserts & not the shorter 3/4" pen inserts... also, my pen insert that is about ~ 1-1/2" long has 2 total very very small rib / channel inside the hole (you can see it if you look close enough to the pics on the main thread). These 1-1/2" long pen inserts are not easy to find.. most of them are 3/4" long.
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First off the load cell on a charge master is only accurate to +/- .1 grn powder so based on that alone there's no way you will ever hold exact charges to say 43.0 grns. its gonna throw over and under no matter how many alterations you make to the unit. I. Know this how? Based on loading many more than 1000's of charges and using a scale that has a load cell sensitive enough to +/- .01 grns. There is no digital or mechanical device that will be 100% perfect 100% of the time. So if you really wish make that bet I'm game and I'll bring a scale that will even be more accurate than what I have now to verify all your charges.
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ahhhhh... ok
I guess the point I'm trying to make is "chargemaster" under & over throws... not earth gravitational flux capacitor back to the future blah blah blah accurate (and yes, I understand what you're trying to say)..... as for what my chargemaster tells me as being over & under,,, in the last 1k plus = none... put it this way... it's 10x better than without the mod IMO.... especially if you're running two at the same time. I'm only trying to help.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is "chargemaster" under & over throws... not earth gravitational flux capacitor back to the future blah blah blah accurate (and yes, I understand what you're trying to say)..... as for what my chargemaster tells me as being over & under,,, in the last 1k plus = none... put it this way... it's 10x better than without the mod IMO.... especially if you're running two at the same time. I'm only trying to help.
Elster,
In fairly extensive testing against a lab grade scale, I've found that the chargemaster will drop loads a that are consistent to right about +/- .11 grain without reading an over or under charge. That means you could have a spread from one round to the next of somewhere around .22 grains and you won't even know it, because the chargemaster doesn't even know it. That's just the way it is with this scale. It's a nice tool and will definitely speed up loading, but you can not expect top accuracy and repeatability from it, because it simply isn't capable of it, regardless of what mods you do to it. If a .22 grain extreme spread is acceptable for your purposes, you will love the chargemaster. I have been using one for over 10 years and have loaded untold thousands of rounds with good success, and for most uses it works just fine. That said, I will not use it for loads for important matches, or for anything past 600 yards as the inconsistencies start to show up in the real world.
In fairly extensive testing against a lab grade scale, I've found that the chargemaster will drop loads a that are consistent to right about +/- .11 grain without reading an over or under charge. That means you could have a spread from one round to the next of somewhere around .22 grains and you won't even know it, because the chargemaster doesn't even know it. That's just the way it is with this scale. It's a nice tool and will definitely speed up loading, but you can not expect top accuracy and repeatability from it, because it simply isn't capable of it, regardless of what mods you do to it. If a .22 grain extreme spread is acceptable for your purposes, you will love the chargemaster. I have been using one for over 10 years and have loaded untold thousands of rounds with good success, and for most uses it works just fine. That said, I will not use it for loads for important matches, or for anything past 600 yards as the inconsistencies start to show up in the real world.
this is the straight skinny................
Guys... I understand what your saying lol...
What im saying is over and under throws of what the chargemaster reads! Is better than no mod at all.
What im saying is over and under throws of what the chargemaster reads! Is better than no mod at all.
I predominantly load with H4350 and have ran two experiments using Chargemaster. First, I used straw. Second, I used no straw. Now, I use straw.
It would overthrow by about .2, on an average, every couple of rounds without the straw. With the straw, it has done well. I had one overthrow in 100 rounds the last time I loaded.
It would overthrow by about .2, on an average, every couple of rounds without the straw. With the straw, it has done well. I had one overthrow in 100 rounds the last time I loaded.
I'm not a fan of the Chargemaster for several reasons:
1) Removing the powder after finishing a load session is just a PITA.
2) Even with all the setting changes, I can still load faster with a powder measure and a scale if letting the CM spin from 0 grains to the needed charge weight
3) Accuracy and drifts in charges just aren't fun to chase
If you want to truly speed up your load session, dump with a powder measure within 1-2 grains and then use the Chargemaster to trickle the last bit.
1) Removing the powder after finishing a load session is just a PITA.
2) Even with all the setting changes, I can still load faster with a powder measure and a scale if letting the CM spin from 0 grains to the needed charge weight
3) Accuracy and drifts in charges just aren't fun to chase
If you want to truly speed up your load session, dump with a powder measure within 1-2 grains and then use the Chargemaster to trickle the last bit.
My powder measure chops kernels and was only so accurate so I would check every charge with my 1010 scale. I know have a charge master with a few mods and check each charge, I'm pretty happy. I find charges are a couple of kernels light off the charge master so I just drop a few more when on my balance beam and call it done. I'm getting single digit SD's and high teens/ low twenties ES.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Of all the Chargemaster bashing, or praise we've heard over the years, this is the simplest and most intelligent description I've heard.
But I think one should realize, just because the machine may only be capable of .22gr accuracy, if you sit down and charge 50 cases, it's not a given that's what your spread will be, it could come in substantially lower.
And not to start an argument, even a .22gr spread, might not show up as drastic at say a moa size target at distances greater than 600 yards, even at 1500 yards, it might mean a hit at the bottom of the target, and one at the top, more than acceptable for most shooters.
If my memory hasn't failed me, even a 1000 yard benchrest target has a 10" 10 ring, that's moa!
I like my Chargemaster a lot. I understand that it is not "lab accurate", but +- .1 is perfectly acceptable to me. I think we tend to get hung up on the aspects of loading and shooting that we can see, like powder charge. There are so many more variables in the system that affect a given shot more than .2 grains of powder charge, that I'm frankly not even the least bit worried about it. On a 45 grain powder charge, that is .4%. I can't judge (or measure) the difference between a 9.96mph and 10.04mph wind, my rangefinder can't measure distance that accurately, and I sure as heck can't hold the rifle that steady. There are bigger fish to fry.
So it looks like I might need a more precise scale for long distance. I still think this will be helpful getting me very close and then I could weigh on a separate more precise scale. I will see what kind of results I get.
How many grains of H4350 does it typically take to register .10 on the Chargemaster? On my old MXX-123 it was 5 grains? It seems to be more than 10 on this scale.
It really depends on what your expectations are and what sort of shooting you do. Like the guy above you stated, .2 grains is not a large difference, and most people would never notice it on target. Some people will. If you are someone who will notice it, it's there to be noticed. At some point, even the minutiae matters. I have won (and lost) quite a few matches by a single point or X.
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Yes to each their own. There is a reason people buy the Prometheus 2for $3500 to throw charges to the kernel. It depends on your application. For me anymore than .05 grains and I better be checking my stuff.
Agree with Erud on the significance of the type of shooting (and other equipment you have). If you are shooting in Unlimited Benchrest with a full custom rifle, high mag optics, concrete benches, etc., then the more expensive scale probably makes sense. Laying in the grass with a factory Rem 700, no way.
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M
milo 2.0
Guest
I'd like to too, but a lab grade scale like mentioned is quite a substantial investment not to mention time consuming.
I have to agree with just about everybody that has posted, because their claims, although differing, are substantiated by their own needs. For me, I'm pretty certain that small variations in charge weights aren't making me shoot any worse. There are too many variables in shooting to cancel out mundane variations in charge weight. Fuck the Prometheus (although if someone gave me one, I would probably use it). Go ahead and pull down a box of FGMM and weigh the charges. I guarantee you will see variances much greater than .2 gr. However, Rescigno is able to consistently shoot sub 0.1 moa with every single rifle he puts out.
Simply love mine. Accurate enough for my needs and has made this portion of the loading process much more enjoyable. Yes, I warm it up too for atleast a half hour, I do re-zero or re-calibrate from time to time during a load session. That's just the way it is. Beats the hell outta my bathroom scale 
I'm not sure if it does or not. These guys are probably using a Harrells powder measure! Plus or minus .1 of a grain has set and broken many records. My opinion is that money spent on a more accurate scale probably would do more good being spent on components and practice. My old Denver Instruments scale would drive you nuts chasing parts of kernels of powder, to say nothing about air current, static, or the many other things that a lab quality scale would see. Lightmani
I too love mine. So up to .22 in potential differential in charge weight? Unless your a bench rest shooter I can't see how that can overcome the speed and handiness of the Chargemaster. I base my load quality on the ES and SD of my Chrony. The loads made with my Chargemaster constently net me ES's of below 15 and sometimes as low as 5 over 20+ rounds. Is ES and SD not the ultimate guage of consistency?
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