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591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

P

Panhandle

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
May 31, 2011
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For four years i have been planning on buying a custom gun for myself for graduation, and i just graduated.

The new Thunder Ranch Rifle from GAP is basically the exact setup that i wanted, except i have had my heart set on a Surgeon 591 action for 4 years now.

I know both companies make great actions. Anybody have any specific comments on what action to go with? If i go with the Thunder Ranch rifle its probably going to be a quicker turn around time than getting basically the same rifle built with a surgeon action.

I have just always had this dream build on a surgeon action, i know that there is prolly not much difference having it on a Templar but i thought i would get some input from you guys.

P.S. I have been reading for years just never posted.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I haven't owned a Templar action but I finally have a surgeon with a 591 WSM on the way this week. To me the 591 has the best upside. Integral rail, integral lug.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Both are incredible actions... It's like comparing a high end Mercedes to a BMW. I love the Surgeon to but I'd go with the Templar for the quick turn around time and the 3/8 " guarentee, you won't be dissapointed.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

GAP will not sell just the action (I called and asked recently) which means either GAP builds it (which ain't a bad thing - but takes about a year) or you get the Surgeon.

As an aside, I have learned (a few times) to buy what you want rather than what you can get with the greatest ease. If you build anything other than the dream gun, you will simply be building again someday - and might anyway.

If you really want the Surgeon, get the Surgeon.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Special Delivery</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are incredible actions... It's like comparing a high end Mercedes to a BMW. I love the Surgeon to but I'd go with the Templar for the quick turn around time and the 3/8 " guarentee, you won't be dissapointed. </div></div>

Quick turn around?
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Buy the one you want. You don't want to think "should I have gone with brand X" every time you look at your rifle. There really isn't a down side here they are both great. Sense you just graduated and your making big bucks now just get both
grin.gif
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thunder ranch rifles are only a 2 month to 3 month turnarround </div></div>

Great to know, thanks for the clarification.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

It's really asking which is better a Audi or a BMW. They're both great cars and you'd be happy with either. It's just who's name do you like more. I'd lean towards the templar if it was me, but it's not.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I would bet if that is how you want it, George would gladly build the TR on a 591. Its an upgrade on almost all other of their builds for a small fee.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I just built a rifle on a Surgeon 591 and I have no complaints at all. The only downside with a Surgeon is that you can not run AW mags only AICS mags on their action. I run a Badger floorplate so it doesn't matter to me. That is the only real advantage of the Templar compared to the Surgeon that I can think of.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I have 3 templar actions and 1 surgeon 591. I actually prefer the templar actions over the surgeon. But they are both so well made, I would be more than happy with either one. Like the guys said above, don't go with something just because you can get it quick.....get exactly what you want...the wait will be worth it
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I have build going on now with a Surgeon 591. I'm like you I have always wanted a Surgeon because they have always been he standard everyone compares too. I was actually having my build built on a Tac 30 but some unfortunate/fortunate events occurred that allowed me to back out of that build and start a new build with a Surgeon which is what I really wanted in the first place. Just so you know there is a crusader in the for sale section with less then 500 rounds and he is only wanting 3100. The crusaders are on the Templar.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: i_rep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would bet if that is how you want it, George would gladly build the TR on a 591. Its an upgrade on almost all other of their builds for a small fee.

</div></div>

That's correct, If the Thunder Ranch is exactly what you were looking for--except with a Surgeon action, I would be more than happy to walk through the work order and give you a price for a custom rifle with the same specs.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As an aside, I have learned (a few times) to buy what you want rather than what you can get with the greatest ease. If you build anything other than the dream gun, you will simply be building again someday - and might anyway.

If you really want the Surgeon, get the Surgeon. </div></div>

This is the first thing that went through my head as soon as I finished reading your post. I have a Templar and it is a buttery smooth action. I have never even once regretted my purchase. Most of the guys that cycle it note how smooth it is. That said, if you want a Surgeon, then that is the direction I think you should go if you just have to have a Surgeon.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Surgeon - as mentioned previously, integral 20 MOA rail and recoil lug. Rock solid design, rock solid track record.

In the end, you cannot go wrong with either.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Preston makes some fine actions, but if the thunder ranch is what you want in a rifle, then just buy it.

You arent loosing anything picking GAP over Surgeon
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Buy what you want and shoot the crap out of it. You can't go wrong with either one so pick the one you have wanted for 4 years.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Buy what you want and don't settle. There will be little to know difference in the quality. You want what you want and that is that. Order and don't look back.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

As everyone has said they're both great. I recommend getting your hands on one and then the other, if possible, and then you'll have your comparison. I like actions generally based on smoothness of bolt travel, how heavy the bolt throw is, and the angle of the bolt throw. Out of actions i've handled which have all been factory other than the BAT, i like my Sako 85 possibly the best, just wish it had a 3 position safety. Smooth bolt travel, smooth cycling, 60 degree bolt lift, and the action is a "medium" action, which is a good niche in between SA and LA allowing me to seat my .260 bullets long and still be mag length.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

If I didn't have a custom being delivered from UGSW any time now I'd go for the GAP TR. I'm really digging the package but everyone has his or her opinion.

Todd
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I would go with the Templar due to the fact they can do the AW mag cut on it (not sure if you can with the 591??). That is a nice mag/feature to have, longer OAL, being able to load the mag in the action, and a more compact 10 rnd mag.

I have a Templar and also love it. That being said, I am doing my next build on the Tac30 just because of the past group buy and the AW mag cut.

Regards,
_DT
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

As an aside, the 591 comes with a build in 20 moa rail so one size fits all. GAP has confirmed that they can co higher or lower as needed with the Templar.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

The man at GAP personally answered your question. Does customer service get any better?
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

The Templar can use AW mags, I believe. That would be a deciding feature for me.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

AW 10 round mags are nice, but the new Alpha Industries 10 round mags are almost the same size. I am using them in my Surgeon Scalpel and they work great.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deisel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AW 10 round mags are nice, but the new Alpha Industries 10 round mags are almost the same size. I am using them in my Surgeon Scalpel and they work great. </div></div>

Exactly what I planned on running with my 591. This is good to know. To me that tips the scale in favor of the Surgeon because the AW mags was a huge plus for the Templar but if the Alpha mags aren't that much bigger than I would go Surgeon, but I'm a little bias since I just received my first Surgeon
grin.gif
.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GAP will not sell just the action (I called and asked recently) which means either GAP builds it (which ain't a bad thing - but takes about a year) or you get the Surgeon. </div></div>

I believe you can order the action (or one similarly spec'd) from Defiance since the Templar is a Defiance action. On the side of the Templar/Defiance doesn't the new version accept both AW and AICS mags interchangably?
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I looked both actions over very close at GAP. Both really are great actions. The only thing that stuck out to me about the 591 was the fact that the machining marks are still present on the action. The Templar is polished smooth. I don't really care about the marks, but since both actions are on the same playing field, I went with the one that looked nice too.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

I have had 2 GAPS. One on a GA trued REM 700, and it was ridiculously smooth and accurate. I could literally two finger cycle, and it locked up hard and crisp. Every time. My current is on a 591, and it too is buttery smooth, however, it is tighter. Never shot a Templar, but if I was going to have a complete build done at GA, it would be on their action for sure. Either way, you can't go wrong man, your action will be completely square and true either route you go. Just pull the trigger and go for it. Wait times are a bitch, but so what.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Not to change the game or hi-jack the thread but if looking strictly at actions and buying it as a stand alone take a closer look at the offering from Mike @ Skunkworks. His actions are also manufactured by Defiance but to his spec so they differ slighty from the Templar & the regular run Defiance series and can be bought right from Mike.

It's just an option to think about or food for thought they say.

But in the end don't settle for anything less than what you really want or you'll always be saying "what if".

Todd
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it. Both actions are excellent as testified by many. I had Ken put together a work order with the specs of the Thunder Ranch rifle on a surgeon action. Prolly gonna go that direction. Can"t go wrong either way, had a surgeon on my mind for so long so I am gonna go with it. Can't beat a company that sees your post and tells you they will build you that rifle. Once again I appreciate all the posts.
 
Re: 591 Surgeon vs. GAP Templar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panhandle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For four years i have been planning on buying a custom gun for myself for graduation, and i just graduated.

The new Thunder Ranch Rifle from GAP is basically the exact setup that i wanted, except i have had my heart set on a Surgeon 591 action for 4 years now.

I know both companies make great actions. Anybody have any specific comments on what action to go with? If i go with the Thunder Ranch rifle its probably going to be a quicker turn around time than getting basically the same rifle built with a surgeon action.

I have just always had this dream build on a surgeon action, i know that there is prolly not much difference having it on a Templar but i thought i would get some input from you guys.

P.S. I have been reading for years just never posted. </div></div>
I never had/ tryed Templar( Defiance machine) action, but i have rifle, build on Surgeon RSR action.Yes it's not 591, but i was impressed how action machined/ made, not a single scratch ,tool mark. Action is a piece of art. Bolt is slightly tight, compare to R700 and TRG actions... Rifle is very accurate , easy 1/2 moa if i do my part. Never had problems with action.. RSR cost me around $870 without rail. I looked at Defiance machine action price.I think it's little overpriced $1075, compare to Surgeon RSR $862. I'm planning to build 7mm saum on Surgeon WSM action, when AICS AX will be available..
so +1 for Surgeon.
 
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