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5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

groundhogbuster

groundhogbuster

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 20, 2012
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Western NC
I have had great results with both the SMK's over varget, but have never shot the AMax in .308, much less the 178g. What pill do you prefer for consistent groups. I'm about to order some more bullets, and would like to try something new, and would love to try the 155 Scenar, but it's twice the price, so tell me which bullet you have had the best results with. Also anyone tried the 178's? Lookin forward to it, and hope to order tonight. LMK Thanks
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I tried the 155gr Scenars, you can get good results, great groups and added velocity. My main complaint with the 155s is they do not make the transition to subsonic well at all. The A-MAX 168 and 178s have a great BC and are very well priced, hard to beat. SMKs of course are always a good go-to bullet and are very tolerant to various seating depths.

Kirk R
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

Good to hear, thanks. I also had a ? about the moly coated Amax. Anyone ever shoot these? So far it's a tie smk gtg and a max good too.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

When using moly you will reduce the load pressure and loose velocity so you need to increase your charge to compensate, not a problem if you have the case capacity. Many people are under the perception moly will increase velocity, qite the oposite but you an get higher velocity (with more powder) than with naked bullets in many barrels. You may be able to run more rounds down the tube between cleanings with moly, I run Tubb DTAC BN coated bullets in a 243 and go 200-350 before cleaning and accuracy has never fallen off, I just clean it because it seems like the right thing to do.

Kirk R
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I'm just trying to figure out whether to try the A max, and if I do, Do I try the 178's? The SMK seems to be the benchmark for 308's, but it would be nice to try something different. maybe I'll just order the SMK's and forget about it.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

The 178 AMAX are excellent bullets. Used them in comps when I was shooting a 308. I use the 168 AMAX factory load as practice ammo.

If you are looking for another good bullet look at the 178 weight look at the Hornady 178 bthp which has a BC of .530 and is very accurate. Set it on some Varget and you will be all set.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

When I had my 20" 5R it LOVED 168 Federal Gold Matches. Consistent 1/2 MOA or less groups at 100 yrds. Never got the chance to try the 175s but Heard/Seen several 5R shot it with Great Results 500 yrds and beyond with it.

I've shot M118s out of the 5R with it did not like so much for some reason...
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I shoot the SMK's, and lately have become a fan of the Amax's. In every caliber I shoot they do very well. I use the 168's for my 308, the 178's for my 30-06, and the 208's in my 300. I got the idea to try them when I saw the excellent results I got from the Hornady factory loads using 140 Amax's in my Creedmoor. Not to mention the price is better than Berger, and Lapua for the same results in my case.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

Mine shoots the 175smk's just as good if not better than the 168s. I just wonder if the 178 amax is pushing the limits of the 11.25 twist???
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I usually use 168's as I load practice ammo to mimic duty ammo.

The Hornady 168 BTHP shot extremely well in my 5R, as did the 168 SMK's and Nosler CC
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I would think 11.25 twist would probably work with the 178 Amax. Only one way to find out. Not a 5R but my Rem 1-12 likes the 155 Amax to the 178s. I use RL-15 with the heavys and H4895 with the 155s.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

Well I ordered some 168 a max's and some 110 prohunters for my 6.8's. Maybe I'll get to shoot the 4 I haven't put a rd through, and if the 168 amax does good, i'll try the 175's and 178's. Thanks all.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

175 SMK, 178 Hornady or 190 SMK. All will shoot quite well from your 700 5R in 308.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I shoot mainly the 168's just because I dont shoot past 300 much. I have the 78's but havent worked with them much.
.
Another one you might want to look into is the Nosler cc's. My rifle likes them as well an the good part is you can get'm cheaper than the MK's usually
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I tried all the 155's in my 5R and they where terrible....1 1/2 groups
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I have shot 168 SMKs, AMAXs, BTHPs as well as 178 AMAX and BTHPs in a 308 5R and a 308 Surgeon Scalpel. Both rifles like all of these bullets. In particular, the 5R really likes 168s (of any flavor) and the Scalpel (which has a 1/10 barrel) really likes the 178s (AMAX and BTHPs).
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

Does anyone have any data on the 178gr AMAX at 1000yds? The price here makes them an attractive alternative to the 175 SMK, but will they hold accuracy in a 12 twist? How fast are you guys running them? I have plenty of RL15 and 17. Are these really still too light a bullet for RL17??

Platform is a standard AIAW 26" tube in .308.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I run the between 2700-2730fps depending on which length barrel I have on. I have only run them with Varget but I know some run them with RL15. They will hold accuracy just fine. Find a good load and you won't be disappointed.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: suburbanhick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KISS and if its not broken why fix it? </div></div>
This is what I was thinking, but wanted a lil cheaper alternative. That's why I'm giving the A Max a try in 308. I know they are barn burners in my 243 (105) over H1000 powder, and I also like the polymer tip, hopefully without any difference and meplats not being off by a cpl thou. Seems everyone (including me) shoots the SMKs and I want to see the diff in the 168 AMax. I have said in the past I won't buy another Nosler bullet, just because they are more expensive than the SMKs. I know the Amax in 223, and 6mm is the best bullet you can get for the $.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

178 amax
lapua brass
fgmm primers
44.5 Varget 2700
44.2 Varget 2668
44.0 Varget 2650

That's from a pierce action out of a brux 1:11 20 inch barrel

44.0 does best at 100. It's .3 MOA
44.2 does .5 MOA @ 100, and .3 MOA @200 but seems to be a laser out to 650 (furthest I've shot it)
44.5 is .6-.8 MOA @ 100 and I've not really tested the groups at distance.

.3 .5 that could be me, but I feel it really does shoot best w/ 44.0
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

Seems that the 178gr HPBT squarely takes the cake of 175/178 class pills... and they shoot incredibly well out of my 700P (sure, it's not a 5R).

I believe Mr. Litz has figured them to have a .502 BC, as opposed to the advertised .530. Still... a .5+ BC for a .308" 175 is pretty stellar, and they're priced pretty fairly most places.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I ran a ladder test with various projectiles for my 5R and the 168AMAX came out on top, literally by mm but it still won. It was the most consistent as well. I still load up 178's for the longer ranges just to see if it really makes a difference but AMAX has beat out the SMK in my 5R.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I shoot 168 SMK's in both my TRG 22 and AIAW in 308. The 168 SMK's are extremely accurate in both rifles. I don't shoot more than 600 yards so I never tried the heavier SMK's. I also use the same bullet in my LMT, DPMS SASS, Armalite AR 10A4 and will shoot it in my newly arrived SIG 716.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I have ran 175 SMKs and lately the Nosler CCs over 44.2g of Varget at 2575 FPS out of my 20" LTR barrel.

On a perfectly calm day I have got them to group about 12" at 1K.

I am about to try some 178 Amaxes as I would like to have one load for range or hunting from this rifle.

LTR has a 1/12 twist barrel.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

From my actual shooting the .530 BC on the 178 bthp stands true. Tracked perfectly when that number was used.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

groundhogbuster,

I have a load using 168 A-max that shoots unbelievably well in my Remington Tactical a work in progress thread. You may want to give it a look. The B.C. of the Hornady Amax surpasses the 168smk and I have yet to notice a transonic stability issue with the Amax shooting at 1000 like I have with the SMK. Of course that may change now that its turned colder and it will be crossing that threshold sooner, time well tell.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ghogs Nightmare</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot mainly the 168's just because I dont shoot past 300 much. I have the 78's but havent worked with them much.
.
Another one you might want to look into is the Nosler cc's. My rifle likes them as well an the good part is you can get'm cheaper than the MK's usually </div></div>

Same with me. Started with 168 Nosler actually because I already had them, then went to 178 Amax. Found that the rifle preferred the 168 Nosler. Then tried the 168 Amax and recieved equal results to the Nosler. Big difference for me is consistent index off the tip of the Amax compared to the inconsistent Nosler HP.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">groundhogbuster,

I have a load using 168 A-max that shoots unbelievably well in my Remington Tactical a work in progress thread. You may want to give it a look. The B.C. of the Hornady Amax surpasses the 168smk and I have yet to notice a transonic stability issue with the Amax shooting at 1000 like I have with the SMK. Of course that may change now that its turned colder and it will be crossing that threshold sooner, time well tell. </div></div>

Thanks again Niles. I feel like I owe you $ as I now have new 243, and 308 loads, lol Seriously though are you talking about the "Amax: in general? As in the 168 Amax has a better BC than the 168SMK? I have noticed the stability issue in 1K shooting with the SMK, even the 175's, but just wrote it off as my error.But at 600 I was shooting 3" 3shot groups, with a 1 time 2.2", that bettered my 243 A max load I got from you and Dan at OCW. I will give these Amax's a whirl this weekend if it's in the 60 degree area or warmer. We have been lucky here in WNC with some days in the 70's, and I don't shoot much in cold, so I don't wanna develop a load, to find out it's too "hot" this spring.
BTW did switching to the Mag primer help your velocities in your 243 with 105s and H1000? It made a world of difference in mine. Thanks everyone, if this Amax does as good, I won't be ordering SMK's anymore unless I'm just gonna shoot 600 in.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

groundhogbuster,

B.C. as in 168 SMK g1=.427 vs. 168 A-max g1=.450 as far as transonic stability is concerned both share so close to the same boat tail angle and length that I suspect A-amx to have problems however since the bc is better on the amax it maybe one of those things where it is effected but has not become fully apparent to me while I am shooting in 60-90 degree days but now that winter is here it will be going into that transonic zone sooner and should I shoot at 1000 in say 20-30 degrees I may begin to see it on target.

When I first started shooting LR the 168 match king and custom competition where what I used. I didn’t know then what I know now and like you I had great results on target. It wasn’t until I started shooting them past 800 that the stability issue became apparent at 900 and 1000.

My air density is around -500 during the winter and maxes out around +3500 during the summer. If your DA is higher than mine you should be able to reach out further than I with either bullet. But with all things but B.C. being equal between the two 168’s the A-max should perform better longer. As for the other A-maxes in .308 I found a good node for the 155 but really never played with the 178 too much. As I recall (it has been some time) the 155 was good for about 2700-2730 out of my tactical and I would likely still be shooting it if I had not come across a deal on a large lot of 168’s. 178's shot a little slower than my 175 SMK load (about 2540 with the smk and 2530 with the amax and newer bthp) but again I have quite a stash of 175 SMK's so I just have not done much more than shoot a couple of groups to see it the node was the same or not.

The powder I am using in my 308's (all most exclusively) is varget and with the 168 a-max I have shot from the 30’s to around 100 degrees and never had any pressure issues. I am sure it gains a little on the warmer days when the ammo is sitting out in the sun but I have not seen any swings that concern me.

I did test the mag primer in the 243 and while I need to do a little more testing (I basically just shot it over my chronograph, a magnetospeed) it looks like it is good for about 50-60 fps more and groups appeared to be ok however I was rushed and don’t really trust the groups I printed due to all the extra layers I was wearing at the time and not being truly comfortable while prone because of it. (I had just come in from my deer blind and was wearing two coats and 2 sets of thermo tops under it to stay warm in the stand) This spring I will revisit it. I have given up on the Hornady 105 BTHP through. That bullet does not like this rifle, it's twist or both.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

No need to send me cash, LOL, I am just happy its working for you and get satisfaction in knowing I am saving others some cash and frustration
grin.gif
through my own trial and errors.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

I need to read the rules before posting all willy nilly all over the board. I might find myself on the outside looking in.

Only warning.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

It kind of comes down to what your barrel likes. My 5R really likes the 175smk/cc but wouldn't group the Hornady 178's better than .5 moa, never tried anyone's 168's for this build. I run 43.5g of varget with the 175's and getting 2720fps with a 26" Rock Creek barrel, group bugholes. With the higher BC on the 178's I was hoping they would group better but as I mentioned eariler its what your barrel likes.
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

James S Barrett II, a word of advice, that post doesn’t belong here and should be posted in the WTB section but read the rules first to make sure you are eligible to do so, or your stay may be short.

Tip: delete your post.

That said, welcome to the Hide!
 
Re: 5R and 308Shooters. SMK's or A Max? 168,175,178?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Barrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to read the rules before posting all willy nilly all over the board. I might find myself on the outside looking in.

Only warning. </div></div>

WHAT THE HECK?? Talk about a hijack
 
Little late on coming back to this but: now settled on a 178gr AMAX load using RL15 and CCI BR2 primers. 43.3grs gets me 2600fps,...anymore and I start to see pressure. I had hoped to get a little more speed but accuracy is spot on.
 
I just bought 1k of the 178's for my 308 and 1k of the 208 for my 300wm. I got 750 or so 175smk's left they, all shoot good but i have had better results with the 178amax. Plus it's ability to transition to a hunting bullet as well is a big seller for me. Only one load to worry about and only one set of DOPE to keep up with for each rifle. Makes life a little easier, you know what they say, train how you fight, or in my case at least train how you hunt!
 
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