- Thread starter USMC99
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I have some personal experience that may help. I shoot with a buddy of mine quite often with factory loads: FGMM 168, 175, Black Hills Match 168, 175, Hornady Match 168 and ASYM Precision 168. He shoots a Rem factory 5R and I'm shooting a Stiller Action, Bartlein 5R rem varmint counter bedded in HS precision.
Honestly they both shoot the same. He is a tad better one day and me the next. It so close it's basically indistinguishable. I have every intention to start hand loading for improved accuracy just for a entertainment in the off season.
I'm really curious to see what improvements come from handloading. Both guns run around 1/2 MOA even at moderate distance (100, 300 & 400 yards).
Kinda sucks because I built the custom about the time I suggested he buy the 5R (he didn't like the idea of spending the $$$ for a custom) and as of now I can't justify then added cost with performance. I love the rifle and everything about it, but with factory ammo is basically just a 5R.
This is my experience and I'm not saying it's gospel or the case for all in any way; just a personal experience you can draw what you will.
I however am curious what others think about the gains or potential of my rig vs. a factory 5R with proper handloads. Does anyone have any measured improvements from factory ammo to hand loads? I would like to hear those data results. Thanks!
Honestly they both shoot the same. He is a tad better one day and me the next. It so close it's basically indistinguishable. I have every intention to start hand loading for improved accuracy just for a entertainment in the off season.
I'm really curious to see what improvements come from handloading. Both guns run around 1/2 MOA even at moderate distance (100, 300 & 400 yards).
Kinda sucks because I built the custom about the time I suggested he buy the 5R (he didn't like the idea of spending the $$$ for a custom) and as of now I can't justify then added cost with performance. I love the rifle and everything about it, but with factory ammo is basically just a 5R.
This is my experience and I'm not saying it's gospel or the case for all in any way; just a personal experience you can draw what you will.
I however am curious what others think about the gains or potential of my rig vs. a factory 5R with proper handloads. Does anyone have any measured improvements from factory ammo to hand loads? I would like to hear those data results. Thanks!
I strongly agree with your last statement and it is likely the biggest reason I chose to have a custom built. I actually sold a damn good LTR to build this custom and it may only shoot better by the slimmest of margins, if at all. But I like you like the reassurance of knowing I'm getting a precision built rifle that has a ver pay high probably of shooting well. So do I regret the custom? NOT AT ALL. I got the gun I wanted the way I wanted it and it shoots damn good. Are there factory rifles that can shoot about the same and maybe a few better! SURE! But there is always that risk of getting a dud.
I do miss my factory rifle, but not near as much as I like the custom.
I do miss my factory rifle, but not near as much as I like the custom.
Rem 5R barrels tend to shoot very well.
However, if you get a 5R that does no better than 1 MOA, you have a 1 MOA rifle till you replace the tube.
If you get a quality match barrel that shoots no better than 1 moa, the manufacture will most likely replace said tube.
My 5R was a very good shooter, but was not straight, the wobble was easy to see when threading for the suppressor. It did not like having a suppressor mounted. My rifle now has a schneider 1-11 twist P5 barrel.
However, if you get a 5R that does no better than 1 MOA, you have a 1 MOA rifle till you replace the tube.
If you get a quality match barrel that shoots no better than 1 moa, the manufacture will most likely replace said tube.
My 5R was a very good shooter, but was not straight, the wobble was easy to see when threading for the suppressor. It did not like having a suppressor mounted. My rifle now has a schneider 1-11 twist P5 barrel.
I have a Remington milspec and it will consistently shoot about 1/2-3/4 MOA. For $1100 I could not have been happier. Although I have shot about 1000 rounds through the barrel (all 175gr SMK with 41-43gr imr4064), it seems like the groups are starting to open up a bit. Do you all think that is normal or should the accuracy start to fall off later in the round count? Im thinking on replacing the barrel with a match grade eventually. The stock barrel seemed like a great start though.
If you have the slightest OCD like 99% of the people on this forum, and this forum aint that overly obsessed like accurate shooter forum, you will lose sleep over that 1/8th moa difference between the factory barrel and a custom barrel. Once you figure out reloading you will never shoot a store bought bullet again.
Go to your buddies house on cleaning day, and watch the how much difference there is in cleaning the rough factory bore over yours. Also stretch out the range, and pay attention to the difference in dope. I bet after 600 yards it gets pretty significant...
Honestly, with a quality barrel that was chambered by a GOOD gunsmith, that is loaded with quality ammo, you get the piece of mind of knowing it was YOU that fucked up the trigger pull!
Doesn't matter if it's the sights, stock, barrel, ammo etc....the old saying applies, "You get what you pay for!" A lot of time/sometimes you can spend less money and everything works like a million bucks more often than not though so so is just so so.
Your equipment always has to be better than you! Once you start exceeding your equipments capabilities you stop learning! We just built a local guy who runs a couple of matches every month at one of the local ranges. Out of a possible 600-60x (200-600 yards) he never shot out of the upper 550's with his factory Rem. 700 police gun in .308win. We built him a new .308win. rifle and other than putting a zero on it took it to the first match with it two weekends ago and posted a 584! The guy was doing cart wheels! It builds your confidence in making wind calls etc....when you know that where you point it the bullet will go! Your not second guessing anything.
When you have a gun that will hold 1/3 moa or better at any distance.....then you will know what a good rifle is!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Your equipment always has to be better than you! Once you start exceeding your equipments capabilities you stop learning! We just built a local guy who runs a couple of matches every month at one of the local ranges. Out of a possible 600-60x (200-600 yards) he never shot out of the upper 550's with his factory Rem. 700 police gun in .308win. We built him a new .308win. rifle and other than putting a zero on it took it to the first match with it two weekends ago and posted a 584! The guy was doing cart wheels! It builds your confidence in making wind calls etc....when you know that where you point it the bullet will go! Your not second guessing anything.
When you have a gun that will hold 1/3 moa or better at any distance.....then you will know what a good rifle is!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Who says it's not that you've just exceeded the accuracy of the ammo? Or that's your potential as a shooter?
Some of the best reasons to go custom is you get what you want, typically manufacturers stand behind their work, and the actions tend to be more durable.
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Some of the best reasons to go custom is you get what you want, typically manufacturers stand behind their work, and the actions tend to be more durable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can't tell you what is the right answer for you, but I can tell you how I've always approached the "when to spend money" decision.
When I can tell the quality of my equipment is holding me back from accomplishing what I want, I buy better equipment.
When I can't get the equipment I already have to do what I want, I buy more suitable equipment. An example of this is the stock Rem 700P rifle barrel. The throat on this rifle was designed by the lawyers...it is a mile long, and that made it impossible for me to shoot VLD-style bullets. VLD bullets don't like to jump into the lands, so they are usually seated very close to the lands, if not against them, and this means the bullet is seated farther out in the case mouth. With the factory barrel's chamber, I couldn't reach the lands with the VLD bullets I wanted to shoot. So = new custom barrel, chambered the way i wanted it to be.
I do not to this day understand the fascination with 5R rifling.
When I can tell the quality of my equipment is holding me back from accomplishing what I want, I buy better equipment.
When I can't get the equipment I already have to do what I want, I buy more suitable equipment. An example of this is the stock Rem 700P rifle barrel. The throat on this rifle was designed by the lawyers...it is a mile long, and that made it impossible for me to shoot VLD-style bullets. VLD bullets don't like to jump into the lands, so they are usually seated very close to the lands, if not against them, and this means the bullet is seated farther out in the case mouth. With the factory barrel's chamber, I couldn't reach the lands with the VLD bullets I wanted to shoot. So = new custom barrel, chambered the way i wanted it to be.
I do not to this day understand the fascination with 5R rifling.
I have a Remington 5R 20" Milspec with a 4x16 vortex scope. I really like it. It was in my budget It shoots well
Oh I don't kid myself. Posed with the same decision, I would undoubtedly build another custom. I have two thus far and the virtual guarantee for performance and quality is the reason I may never buy another store bought bolt gun.
I have all the confidence in the world I used a competent smith. He is well regarded smith; a mentor and friend of William Roscoe of La Precision.
I have all the confidence in the world I used a competent smith. He is well regarded smith; a mentor and friend of William Roscoe of La Precision.
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