• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

6.5 Creedmoor S&B brass

Foul Mike

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2001
3,090
4,920
Eastern Colorado
I had on hand 100 rds. of this that I had never done anything with, then this AM there was another 120 rds. with boxes my Partner in Crime found in the bucket at the range so I brought it home. so I think once fired.

I had 20 rds. given to me months ago and I reloaded and shot it several times and so far it has been good, primer pockets still tight.

I am sure it is not the best in the West and others are better, but for short range plinking out to 600 it seems to be OK.

What can you tell me about this? Do they produce their own brass?
It seems like it is a cheap round for entry level shooters to use to get their feet on the ground, and the factory loads are not very consistant, in my experience, but they go Bang every time.

Tell me what you know. Regards, FM
 
it's brass. load and shoot

compare weights and thicknesses and report back. i doubt youll find many who have shot let alone reloaded it on here
 
  • Like
Reactions: Foul Mike
I've loaded 100 pieces of it so far.
The only issue I've had is that the primer pocket crimp needs to be removed. You can't see it, but it's there.

As far as being a cheap practice load. Cheap in price, yes. Performance wise, it'll hit golf balls at 300 yds with boring regularity.

I've got about 3-400 pieces of it and I like it.
 
Maybe they are missing something.
Cheap brass is exactly that, something to load for practice without a lot of $$ out to shoot short range and practice a bit and get a feel for what you want to do.
You can't buy brass and load it for what this shit costs and many younger or less experienced shoooters choose this way to go to get a "feel" of their new rifle. I have not run into any primer pocket crimps so far, just tight, and primed OK after several reloads. Unlike Hornady.
 
Last edited:
Primer pockets are super tight. So much so that a WLR will not go in unless the outer edge is bumped with a crimp remover. Like this one.

Screenshot_20191108-161418_Chrome.jpg


It cuts a very small ring off of the lip and primers go in without a fight.
I'm just going to do all of my S&B Creedmoor brass with it.
I also hit the flash holes with a deburring tool. Most times, there isn't any burr.

You're correct in the cost to reload. At barely over 50 cents per round, you can't hardly touch that price even taking the brass out of the equation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash and Foul Mike
I will touch up the pockets a bit and do the flash holes on this that I have now as you suggest.
The 20 I have reloaded worked fine, I only had 20 so didn't get too carried away with it. I was only going to give it a go and it worked fine for me. I used CCI LR primers and my regular load of Horn. 140 BTHP Match bullets and H4350. It shoots fine for what I loaded it for, plinking ammo.

Do they make the brass in house or do you know?
Thank you for your input. FM
 
I went out to check the Range this AM. and found 60 more rds. at the short range, 600 yds. in their boxes,.so I guess the shooter had a bunch of it and shot there then moved to 1000 and shot a bunch more there.
I weighed about 30 picked at random out of the lot yesterday and they were closer than the Horn. brass I was comparing them to. Pretty consistent

It is FREE brass and clean and I don't expect it to compare to such as Lapua or other high end brass, but I do expect it to be more than adequate for fun shooting and knock the hell out of Prairie Dogs and not worry if you loose a few.

I still would like to know who produces the brass and if it is in House, I think they are doing well. YMMV FM

.
 
FM,
Years back, Norma used to produce brass for S&B.
My dad bought a ton of 7.62x54 and it was actually Norma brand marked. It shot very well.
This current brass looks well made. Reloads well and shoots well.
@8pointer has been buying and shooting it through his RPR. His gun is fully capable of shooting <1/2" 5 shot groups with the S&B ammo. (He's also my brass source. Thanks buddy!?)

With the groups it produces, the low SD and ES, and its ability to shoot small groups, I see no reason to buy Hornady or even Lapua at this time.

BTW, did you notice the factory primers are lead free?
 
FM,
Years back, Norma used to produce brass for S&B.
My dad bought a ton of 7.62x54 and it was actually Norma brand marked. It shot very well.
This current brass looks well made. Reloads well and shoots well.
@8pointer has been buying and shooting it through his RPR. His gun is fully capable of shooting <1/2" 5 shot groups with the S&B ammo. (He's also my brass source. Thanks buddy!?)

With the groups it produces, the low SD and ES, and its ability to shoot small groups, I see no reason to buy Hornady or even Lapua at this time.

BTW, did you notice the factory primers are lead free?
Welcome! I hope it continues to perform to your expectations. Not saying I won't ever reload, but with the performance at present and not owning the equipment will be hard 'pressed' to reload. Time to reload the golf ball rack...btw Thursday is out for me insane day....Wednesday possible.....will let you know how things shake out by end of day Monday.

FYI for anyone who is interested in shooting the S&B 140g FMJBT and you don't have any data yet I got a 10 shot chrono average of 2691 24" barrel with 8" suppressor.
 
Last edited:
I've loaded 100 pieces of it so far.
The only issue I've had is that the primer pocket crimp needs to be removed. You can't see it, but it's there.

As far as being a cheap practice load. Cheap in price, yes. Performance wise, it'll hit golf balls at 300 yds with boring regularity.

I've got about 3-400 pieces of it and I like it.
Speaking of 'golf' you will get another 40 or so Wednesday if you are game...9am 'tee time' with Wilbur. Friday is already looking no bueno. Can do?
 
Not sure who S&B is unless they are referring to starline brass. I have load a 50 round box 4 times with the starline brass and have had no problem in my 454 casull pistol. I try to only use CCI Mag primers in all my loads for my rifles and pistols. I have better performance with them. I do have federal, Remington and CCI LRP but my 30-06, 30-30, 45-70, 300 win, and several other rifles just group better with CCI mag primers including my pistols. The starline brass is holding up great but steer clear of Remington Brass in some calibers the brass is thin and splits easy even on virgin brass. one caliber I see it a lot is the 35 rem.
 
Last edited:
Not sure who S&B is unless they are referring to starline brass. I have load a 50 round box 4 times with the starline brass and have had no problem in my 454 casull pistol. I try to only use CCI Mag primers in all my loads for my rifles and pistols. I have better performance with them. I do have federal, Remington and CCI LRP but my 30-06, 30-30, 45-70, 300 win, and several other rifles just group better with CCI mag primers including my pistols. The starline brass is holding up great but steer clear of Remington Brass in some calibers the brass is thin and splits easy even on virgin brass. one caliber I see it a lot is the 35 rem.

S&B isn't Starline. It's owned (recently purchased) by CBC out of Brazil and keeps its original brand of Sellier and Bellot.

You mention 454 Casull reloading. Starline makes great pistol brass. I didn't realize they made the 454 with a large rifle primer pocket.
Very unusual.
The brass should be specified for use only with small rifle and small rifle magnum primers, due to the operating pressure of the cartridge.

As far as the other brass/primers you mention, everyone has different luck with different primers.
For me, I'll only use a Federal 215 for magnum rifle cartridges. In a pinch, I'll substitute the Winchester LRM. So far I've only had to do that a couple of times in 30+ years of reloading.
 
Last edited:
I should have specified that the 454 Casull starline brass is small rifle primers. There is a company making 454 brass with large rifle primer but don't remember who it was. I am not familiar with that Seller & Bellot brass and from what I have read here I probably will not use any. I am an avid hand loader and part time gun smith. I started hand loading when I was 13 back in 1964 and have enjoyed it ever since. I have noticed with some of the new loads in the Hornady manual and the 264 caliber that sometimes with std. LRP you will see flatting of the primers with max loads and if you switch to mag primers that problem will go away.
 
My rifle, a Remington 700 with factory barrel slightly craters primers with starting loads and with max loads. The primer edges are still rounded and extraction is easy with smooth bolt lift.
I'll live with it until it becomes an issue.

The primer pockets on the S&B brass are crimped, just like Federal 223 cases.

20191028_151251.jpg


You can see the crimp on the unworked case from the 2-9:00 position.

The case on the right has had the crimp removed and the pocket uniformed.
The pockets are so tight, that it left a mark on the case head as if it had hard extraction. That was from the RCBS primer pocket uniformer.

You can see where the crimp remover cut a wider radius along the edge of the crimp on the worked case.
 
I have not seen this brass before. I don't think I would do much with it other than just plinking and not have to worry about picking it up.
 
Tex, did you read all of the OP? That and my posts below it kind of tell it like it is...FREE and what I have loaded so far is doing much better than Horn. for me.

I have another thread about SIG brass here now I am trying. Not as happy with it as I am with S&B.

I shoot a lot and don't like to use my Lapua for short range plinkin, I would rather save it for longer shots.
Regards, FM
 
My rifle, a Remington 700 with factory barrel slightly craters primers with starting loads and with max loads. The primer edges are still rounded and extraction is easy with smooth bolt lift.
I'll live with it until it becomes an issue.

The primer pockets on the S&B brass are crimped, just like Federal 223 cases.

View attachment 7182867

You can see the crimp on the unworked case from the 2-9:00 position.

The case on the right has had the crimp removed and the pocket uniformed.
The pockets are so tight, that it left a mark on the case head as if it had hard extraction. That was from the RCBS primer pocket uniformer.

You can see where the crimp remover cut a wider radius along the edge of the crimp on the worked case.

Are you just using the Hornady deburring by hand? How long were those rounds purchased? I'm new(er) to reloading and this is what mine look like - I would not have guessed that these were crimped. I was about to start loading some of them this morning for the first time and stumbled upon this thread after reading the more recent thread in the bolt action sub-forum.

20200726_091250.jpg
 
I've loaded 100 pieces of it so far.
The only issue I've had is that the primer pocket crimp needs to be removed. You can't see it, but it's there.

As far as being a cheap practice load. Cheap in price, yes. Performance wise, it'll hit golf balls at 300 yds with boring regularity.

I've got about 3-400 pieces of it and I like it.

There is no primer pocket crimp on S&B brass that needs to be removed. The beveling around the primer pocket is minimal and may pose an alignment problem with some primer tools. I never had a problem seating primers into this brass.
 
Looks like good ignition to me. Clean the primer pocket and go again.
The S&B brass does have a tight primer pocket but I have never had to do anything more than but put a little more grip on my priming tool.

Is it the best brass in the World?, Hell No.

Is it adequate for GP plinking rounds? Hell YES.

I have had better luck with S&B for plinking rounds than I have had with Horn. and others.

I load ALL of my 6.5 Creedmoors all the same, Same bullet, Same powder, Same charge, don't give much of a fuck as to what brass it is. It all functions.

Would I shoot a Match with S&B? Maybe, but probably not, use your better shit for that, or whatever round groups the best for you.
Unless the latest I had loaded was S&B and it was working well. then Game on.
 
Are you just using the Hornady deburring by hand? How long were those rounds purchased? I'm new(er) to reloading and this is what mine look like - I would not have guessed that these were crimped. I was about to start loading some of them this morning for the first time and stumbled upon this thread after reading the more recent thread in the bolt action sub-forum.

View attachment 7383821

Your cases don't look like there is a crimp present.
Maybe they changed their process.
I've got about 100 of a newer lot and I'll check for a crimp on them.
As far as the older lot is concerned, it is definitely crimped.
 
Your cases don't look like there is a crimp present.
Maybe they changed their process.
I've got about 100 of a newer lot and I'll check for a crimp on them.
As far as the older lot is concerned, it is definitely crimped.
I've already got the Hornady primer pocket reamer tool in my shopping cart for MidwayUSA with a few other things that I need....so I'll probably get it just to have. Did you chuck yours into a drill or do them by hand?
 
Last edited:
I use an RCBS case prep center to do crimp removal, uniforming of the primer pocket, deburring the flash hole and inside/outside deburring.
It saves a ton of time and sore hands.
Lyman also makes a prep center.

Back to the crimps.
I checked all of my S&B brass. I have five separate verifiable lot numbers and who knows how many others because I've already put them into MTM plastic boxes.
A total of more than 800 cases.
The earliest lots I got from Dan had the crimped primer pockets. None of the later stuff is crimped (yaaaay!!).

That will mean a lot less work for me.

I did receive 100 new Lapua LR primer cases today and I'm going to shoot them head to head and see if there is any accuracy difference.

I'll know tomorrow afternoon and report back.
 
The only time I chuck brass in a drill is when I am using a Lee case trimmer. or a similar type tool that I paid more for, that trims brass to serviceable length along with an old case mouth de burring tool. and that ends at the ends at the case where of the bullet comes out.
I would never think about chucking a case to clean the primer pocket. Do you not have the time to look at each and every round and at the same time find the good ones and the bad ones and if you do, you are doing it by hands and EYES.??? How many rounds are you reloading? That does make a difference as to how much time you spend looking brass and things over. Are you a person interested in speed of reloading or a person that wants things Right On? every time??

Fuck, how long does it take to do a hands and EYES on inspection of the brass, and find the good and the bad? and throw some away? use a hand tool to clean the primer pocket, gives you time to think and inspect. I found a cracked case yesterday as I was inspecting mine. The other 49 are good.


Are you overthinking this thing? and want only speed of reloading, or do you want rounds that will shoot the same way every time, day in or day out?

They are not the same thing.

"Hurrying is the Daddy of all Fuckups." FM

What happens when you come across a Berdan primed case? Broken pin I would guess and some cussin???
 
The only time I chuck brass in a drill is when I am using a Lee case trimmer. or a similar type tool that I paid more for, that trims brass to serviceable length along with an old case mouth de burring tool. and that ends at the ends at the case where of the bullet comes out.
I would never think about chucking a case to clean the primer pocket. Do you not have the time to look at each and every round and at the same time find the good ones and the bad ones and if you do, you are doing it by hands and EYES.??? How many rounds are you reloading? That does make a difference as to how much time you spend looking brass and things over. Are you a person interested in speed of reloading or a person that wants things Right On? every time??

Fuck, how long does it take to do a hands and EYES on inspection of the brass, and find the good and the bad? and throw some away? use a hand tool to clean the primer pocket, gives you time to think and inspect. I found a cracked case yesterday as I was inspecting mine. The other 49 are good.


Are you overthinking this thing? and want only speed of reloading, or do you want rounds that will shoot the same way every time, day in or day out?

They are not the same thing.

"Hurrying is the Daddy of all Fuckups." FM
Maybe my question came and intent came across the wrong way - I'm not in a hurry. I did however wonder how he made such a beautiful and uniformly shiny primer pocket because it looks like it might take a very long time to do that by hand if you are twisting the tool in your fingers. I had read somewhere else (possibly a product review for the reamer) that some people put the *reamer* in a drill chuck. How this turned into me asking if anyone puts brass into a drill chuck is making me re-read everything I wrote in the posts above, but that was never what I was trying ask.

edit: the gentleman replying to me about his technique indicated that he uses an RCBS case prep center...
 
Last edited:
I'll clarify what I do to eliminate confusion and issues with terminology.

Let's for the sake of argument call the cases once fired, and fired from someone else's gun.
This can be given to you, scrounged from the concrete or even the brass bucket.

10 pieces of brass (cases used interchangeably) or 5000, it doesn't matter.
And I'm gonna say these are all the same head stamp, cause I hate sorting brass, but I do it.

I toss them into a tumbler and clean them. They come out and get run through the squirrel cage to remove media. Then they go on a large towel and rolled back and forth to remove the dust.

I'll place them into a case block and give a cursory look to make sure they will go into the die.

I liberally spray them with Hornady One shot and let them sit while I get the dies screwed into the presses. (Yes, I use separate presses for sizing and seating)

Once the presses are set up, I begin full length sizing. After sizing is done I set them on a towel to be inspected and wipe off the lube.
Once that group is sized, I wipe each case and inspect it before placing it into a different loading block.

All cases done, I move to checking case length. I like to start with all cases trimmed to the same length and I will default to the book trim length.
I set up my Lyman Brass Smith electric trimmer and run each case into the cutter. At this point I can do all the other steps then start on another case, or I can trim them in a batch. The decision is based on how bad my hands feel that day.

Anyway, once trimmed to length, the case gets the inside and outside of neck deburred. Inside is usually done with a VLD cutter.

If it's brass for an AR, I'll stop right there.

Well,
If the primer pocket is crimped, I remove the crimp with the tool I showed in a previous post.

If it's for a bolt gun, I will continue by deburring the flash hole and uniforming the primer pocket depth. (That's where the pretty, uniform looking pocket comes from)

One thing I gave up completely on is actually cleaning the primer pockets.
I couldn't find any reason to do it. I tried it both clean and dirty and did not see any difference on paper, steel or the chronograph.

All of those cases are placed neck down in a loading block and they get another inspection before priming. If they pass, it's on to prime, powder and bullet.

That's it. I could do more, and I could do a lot less and they will still go bang every time.
The things I do have shown their positives, otherwise I wouldn't bother.
Not every rifle I own benefits from the extra work. But, none of them suffer from the extra steps.

Some of these S&B cases have had 7 firings on them.
None have needed trimming a second time and all of the primer pockets are still tight.

So far so good, but tomorrow I'll make the comparison between the S&B and these.

20200726_141748.jpg


It's only an extra $100, what the hell... 😜
 
@Drew 235
I've done exactly one primer pocket uniforming by hand back in 1997. I said screw that and modified a tool to allow me to chuck that uniformer in a drill. I saved time and a lot of hand cramps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Foul Mike
OK I fucked up. I thought from the post that the guy was chucking up the BRASS, not the tool. You never know and need to be specific as to what is being chucked up. I probably didn't read it right or got the wrong impression.
In my defense, I have a neighbor that was new to re-loading that was chucking the BRASS in the drill motor and holding the tool in his hand, a Lyman pocket tool meant to be used by hand with the handle on the tool and fucked up some brass before he came over to see what was wrong.

We did just as Mike Casselton did and "modified" the tool and got things pointed in the right direction.

When we all started on this re-loading adventure I am sure there were a lot of us that did some things Bassackwards.

My neighbor is still not good at it, but better. He only loads and shoots at max 100 round per year whereas I shoot almost every day and re-load when I get home from the range, then rinse and repeat.

Such as it is when you are Old and retired and have nothing else to do, but I have in the past made every mistake possible as to re-loading.
I am probably the most anal retentive, take your time and examine everything re-loader in the USA. I have time to burn for a few more years.
 
I just got 1000 rounds of the S&B 140 6.5CM in. After doing some research, it appears to shoot very well. At .55/rd, it was a no brainer. Going to be great cheap ammo for a gas gun. Looking forward to reloading the brass as well.
 
I had about 500 rounds of this and needed to load a bunch of 6mm Creedmoor for a class, so I ran it all through my 6 CM die and it worked fine (even though it’s a bushing die). I agree the primer pockets are tight but haven’t seen a crimp.
 
What is everyone using for primers for the S&B 6.5CM brass?

Is anyone using Large Rifle Magnum, or just Large Rifle primers?