Has anybody made a bolt gun out of a 6.5 grendal. I was thinking of building a bolt gun for my 8 yr old. Thought there might be good barrel life with less recoil with this round.
6.5 grendal
- Thread starter dar1246
- Start date
Re: 6.5 grendal
Check the Grendel forum, it has been done a few times with the CZ527 carbine that comes in 7.62x39 as the host rifle since it has the correct bolt face.
I think Ruger is coming out with a little 7.62x39 rifle also.
Check the Grendel forum, it has been done a few times with the CZ527 carbine that comes in 7.62x39 as the host rifle since it has the correct bolt face.
I think Ruger is coming out with a little 7.62x39 rifle also.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Remington has just released an SR-15 Hunter model that shoots a new caliber, the .30 Rem AR. It is based on the .284 case, with a .308/.30-'06 standard .473" diameter bolt face and a rebated rim. It is a cartridge that falls squarely into the niche between the 7.62x39/.30BR and the .308. It can provide 125gr .30 caliber hunting performance with a recoil level similar to the .223.
I am looking closely at this cartridge as a switch barrel chambering for my Savage bolt gun, which has a .473" diameter bolt face. It is not intended for Long Range usage, with a main application in FV200 shooting. I think that a cartridge which sends a 123-125gr .308 caliber bullet, powered by around 35gr of propellant, is a very good niche caliber for such applications. Factory claims of 2800fps for the 125gr bullet in a 24" barrel appear rather inflated, IMHO, but I think that handloads could probably get within a couple of hundred fps of that without too much pain and strain.
Ammunition and reloading goods are slow to exit the pipeline, but should become more abundant over the coming year or so. That's my best guess.
Greg
Remington has just released an SR-15 Hunter model that shoots a new caliber, the .30 Rem AR. It is based on the .284 case, with a .308/.30-'06 standard .473" diameter bolt face and a rebated rim. It is a cartridge that falls squarely into the niche between the 7.62x39/.30BR and the .308. It can provide 125gr .30 caliber hunting performance with a recoil level similar to the .223.
I am looking closely at this cartridge as a switch barrel chambering for my Savage bolt gun, which has a .473" diameter bolt face. It is not intended for Long Range usage, with a main application in FV200 shooting. I think that a cartridge which sends a 123-125gr .308 caliber bullet, powered by around 35gr of propellant, is a very good niche caliber for such applications. Factory claims of 2800fps for the 125gr bullet in a 24" barrel appear rather inflated, IMHO, but I think that handloads could probably get within a couple of hundred fps of that without too much pain and strain.
Ammunition and reloading goods are slow to exit the pipeline, but should become more abundant over the coming year or so. That's my best guess.
Greg
Re: 6.5 grendal
Greg,
I shoot with a guy up North in the Winter who runs a .30 BR and he gets 2900 from a 130 gr. bullet. He's got a long barrel with a custom chamber and it's in a bolt action. So, under the right circumstances I think this would easily power a 125 gr. bullet up to 2800 fps.
Greg,
I shoot with a guy up North in the Winter who runs a .30 BR and he gets 2900 from a 130 gr. bullet. He's got a long barrel with a custom chamber and it's in a bolt action. So, under the right circumstances I think this would easily power a 125 gr. bullet up to 2800 fps.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody made a bolt gun out of a 6.5 grendal. I was thinking of building a bolt gun for my 8 yr old. Thought there might be good barrel life with less recoil with this round. </div></div>
Oops, My cornputer had me believing Greg's was the first post.
Yes, I've seen the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt gun and it is quite the shizzaz. It had a tight neck and a 22" barrel and was getting all the velocity the AA and Wolf loads were. I would probably even venture to say it's worthwhile to try and work up some heavy loads for it in the 140 gr. range.
One of the Grendels's limiting factors in an AR is that it was born of a Military competition invitation. In that competition was a restriction that the weapon had to fire as well from a carbine or 14.5" barrel as well as a 20" or 24" barrel. So, when Alexander set the parameters for the round he gave it a mid-length gas tube instead of the full potential gas run like the 5.56. He (and probably the military) felt that setting the gun up for the short barrel was the way to go. Anything better from the long barrel was a bonus. As opposed to the 5.56 where it's set up for the long barrel and velocity (as well as cleanliness of the rifle) suffer when the barrel is shortened.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody made a bolt gun out of a 6.5 grendal. I was thinking of building a bolt gun for my 8 yr old. Thought there might be good barrel life with less recoil with this round. </div></div>
Oops, My cornputer had me believing Greg's was the first post.
Yes, I've seen the 6.5 Grendel in a bolt gun and it is quite the shizzaz. It had a tight neck and a 22" barrel and was getting all the velocity the AA and Wolf loads were. I would probably even venture to say it's worthwhile to try and work up some heavy loads for it in the 140 gr. range.
One of the Grendels's limiting factors in an AR is that it was born of a Military competition invitation. In that competition was a restriction that the weapon had to fire as well from a carbine or 14.5" barrel as well as a 20" or 24" barrel. So, when Alexander set the parameters for the round he gave it a mid-length gas tube instead of the full potential gas run like the 5.56. He (and probably the military) felt that setting the gun up for the short barrel was the way to go. Anything better from the long barrel was a bonus. As opposed to the 5.56 where it's set up for the long barrel and velocity (as well as cleanliness of the rifle) suffer when the barrel is shortened.
Re: 6.5 grendal
My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
The .30BR has less case capacity and the higher fps numbers should be accessible with the .30RAR. My only reason for doubt is based on anecdotal comments I've read about the factory loads I've uncovered in research into Internet reviews and articles. Personally, I have a 22" 1:10" very heavy blank that I'd like to try with this chambering, and I know thet somewhere along the line of future travel, I'll likely be trying it out with the new 135gr .308 SMK.
Greg
My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
The .30BR has less case capacity and the higher fps numbers should be accessible with the .30RAR. My only reason for doubt is based on anecdotal comments I've read about the factory loads I've uncovered in research into Internet reviews and articles. Personally, I have a 22" 1:10" very heavy blank that I'd like to try with this chambering, and I know thet somewhere along the line of future travel, I'll likely be trying it out with the new 135gr .308 SMK.
Greg
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Just did a real quick lookup for chamber reamer rentals on the .30RAR. 4D co. rents for $30, $100 deposit, and rents chamber guages for $8 a set, $60 deposit. Seems quite reasonable.
Greg
Just did a real quick lookup for chamber reamer rentals on the .30RAR. 4D co. rents for $30, $100 deposit, and rents chamber guages for $8 a set, $60 deposit. Seems quite reasonable.
Greg
Re: 6.5 grendal
My gunsmith has the reamers for the Grendal already. I will also look into the other cartridge. How is the bullet BCs choices?
My gunsmith has the reamers for the Grendal already. I will also look into the other cartridge. How is the bullet BCs choices?
Re: 6.5 grendal
Dar,
The 6.5 or the .30 Rem AR?
What rifle do you plan on putting this in if I may ask? I was actually looking for a Rem 799 7.62x39 at one time to do this.
Dar,
The 6.5 or the .30 Rem AR?
What rifle do you plan on putting this in if I may ask? I was actually looking for a Rem 799 7.62x39 at one time to do this.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody made a bolt gun out of a 6.5 grendal. I was thinking of building a bolt gun for my 8 yr old. Thought there might be good barrel life with less recoil with this round. </div></div> i think rem makes 1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anybody made a bolt gun out of a 6.5 grendal. I was thinking of building a bolt gun for my 8 yr old. Thought there might be good barrel life with less recoil with this round. </div></div> i think rem makes 1
Re: 6.5 grendal
Looking for less recoil, good barrel life, long range. I have a 243 that he will shoot next year at 600 but that the Grendal might be a good choice to practice with. Can a 223 bolt be open up to fit the ^.5 Grendal.
Looking for less recoil, good barrel life, long range. I have a 243 that he will shoot next year at 600 but that the Grendal might be a good choice to practice with. Can a 223 bolt be open up to fit the ^.5 Grendal.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I read on the new Rem 30 rar this morning. I think the Grendal is a better choice. It could either be a hunting or long range platform. The other choice would be 6.5x47. I was thinking the Grendal because of the powder of 28 to 30 grs to achieve 2700 to 2800fps with a 123 bullet. I haven't seen any bolt guns in the platform yet. Why?
I read on the new Rem 30 rar this morning. I think the Grendal is a better choice. It could either be a hunting or long range platform. The other choice would be 6.5x47. I was thinking the Grendal because of the powder of 28 to 30 grs to achieve 2700 to 2800fps with a 123 bullet. I haven't seen any bolt guns in the platform yet. Why?
Re: 6.5 grendal
As far as i know you can't open a 223 bolt to use 6.5 grendel. The 762x39 bolts are a perfect fit, just rebarrel & headspace.
I think you could buy a new bolt from PTG if you wanted to use a 223 gun for the grendel. There are several people who have bought 762x39 guns & built 6.5 grendels from them. Ruger & CZ both have these actions that i know people rebarreled.
It all depends upon how much money you want to spend building one. It can be built from several different actions but the cost goes up when you don't start froma 762x39 action.
As far as i know you can't open a 223 bolt to use 6.5 grendel. The 762x39 bolts are a perfect fit, just rebarrel & headspace.
I think you could buy a new bolt from PTG if you wanted to use a 223 gun for the grendel. There are several people who have bought 762x39 guns & built 6.5 grendels from them. Ruger & CZ both have these actions that i know people rebarreled.
It all depends upon how much money you want to spend building one. It can be built from several different actions but the cost goes up when you don't start froma 762x39 action.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I have a Remm 223 just sitting around. It has a VTR barrel on it and it shots like crap. Time to build something on it.
I will call PTG and get a bolt from them. I'am kinda of fond of the Remmingtons.
I have a Remm 223 just sitting around. It has a VTR barrel on it and it shots like crap. Time to build something on it.
I will call PTG and get a bolt from them. I'am kinda of fond of the Remmingtons.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Imagine the bullets you'd want to use with a .30BR or a nicer bolt gun chambered in 7.62x39, only running a few tens to hundreds of fps faster. There are .30 cal bullets available from 85gr on up. I'd be thinking that beyond the 135SMK's weight, you might be reaching a point of diminishing returns. For subsonic, I'd imagine damned near anything would work, as long as you had enough twist.
Basically, I don't see it (for me, at least) as an LR chambering. The bullets' weights mean shorter projectiles, with limited BC's.
But for me, with a 200yd max distance, BC becomes somewhat less of a concern.
Greg
Imagine the bullets you'd want to use with a .30BR or a nicer bolt gun chambered in 7.62x39, only running a few tens to hundreds of fps faster. There are .30 cal bullets available from 85gr on up. I'd be thinking that beyond the 135SMK's weight, you might be reaching a point of diminishing returns. For subsonic, I'd imagine damned near anything would work, as long as you had enough twist.
Basically, I don't see it (for me, at least) as an LR chambering. The bullets' weights mean shorter projectiles, with limited BC's.
But for me, with a 200yd max distance, BC becomes somewhat less of a concern.
Greg
Re: 6.5 grendal
Where we hunt. You can up to 1000 yd shots, limited but they do exist. Mostly 600 yards is a good distance. I would like him to have a round that would perform well at those distances either for hunting or planking.
Do you think there would be any veolicity gain out of a bolt gun, or would it be due the barrel length?
Where we hunt. You can up to 1000 yd shots, limited but they do exist. Mostly 600 yards is a good distance. I would like him to have a round that would perform well at those distances either for hunting or planking.
Do you think there would be any veolicity gain out of a bolt gun, or would it be due the barrel length?
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
Re: 6.5 grendal
They are pretty tight with that round. I think because they are pushing the round towards replacing the 5.56 for the military. If they are the only ones $$$$. If not they really screwed up. I have seen the round shot. They shoot really good. For a reloader, it uses less powder, great BCs, great brass (expensive but good), and performs well at long range.
I going to build a Grendal. There might be some pit falls. I talked myself out of a Creedmoor when they first started that round for a lot of reasons. At the time brass, dies, etc. was hard to find and expensive. Hornady had that round tied up. This round has a lot of potential.
They are pretty tight with that round. I think because they are pushing the round towards replacing the 5.56 for the military. If they are the only ones $$$$. If not they really screwed up. I have seen the round shot. They shoot really good. For a reloader, it uses less powder, great BCs, great brass (expensive but good), and performs well at long range.
I going to build a Grendal. There might be some pit falls. I talked myself out of a Creedmoor when they first started that round for a lot of reasons. At the time brass, dies, etc. was hard to find and expensive. Hornady had that round tied up. This round has a lot of potential.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
</div></div>
I understand what you guys are saying, and there are even times when I feel the same, but the 6.8 SPC went the other way and it almost died. If it hadn't been for a few people with the resources believing in it, then dumping a bunch of time and money into improving it and promoting it the 6.8 SPC would be on it's way to nowhere.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
I understand what you guys are saying, and there are even times when I feel the same, but the 6.8 SPC went the other way and it almost died. If it hadn't been for a few people with the resources believing in it, then dumping a bunch of time and money into improving it and promoting it the 6.8 SPC would be on it's way to nowhere.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MudBug</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
</div></div>
I understand what you guys are saying, and there are even times when I feel the same, but the 6.8 SPC went the other way and it almost died. If it hadn't been for a few people with the resources believing in it, then dumping a bunch of time and money into improving it and promoting it the 6.8 SPC would be on it's way to nowhere. </div></div>
I think the biggest thing holding both these rounds back is the criteria set by the "world market". Both were pretty much born of the same competition if not the exact same one and pretty much at the same time.
I think the 6.8 is doing better than it was initially because of changes made by various smaller players in the industry. Good changes. Like giving it a longer leade and hopping up pressure in the rounds. going with the most useful bullet weight for the cse size too. You can get, 3000 fps from one using a 100 gr. bullet. AA also lengthened the barrel and gas tube. Rem makes a bolt gun in this caliber and it gets all kinds of velocity.
But now, you have the .223/5.56 syndrome where you don't fire the high pressure bullet in the original chamber. And since we let the Europeans in on it they (CIP) say you have to call it something else. That is stupid. We've always had tinkerers with cartridges here and just noted what was done.
The 6.5 Grendel is getting <span style="text-decoration: line-through">twisted</span> {edit: worked} in every direction, but AA want's nothing to do with it. As mentioned in my previous paragraph, one of the ways you get a 5.56 (of equal dimensions to a .223 BTW) to get so hot is to lengthen the leade. Roy Weatherby was the first to incorporate that into a rifle in the 1940's. His is another one you have to watch what leade is in the barrel or your could end up with serious overpressure. AA also, won't change the gas length, because he wants to remain true to the original competition configuration. That's why when you look at his loads online there is a .5 gr. gap between low and high powder charges. The round definitely isn't for a casual reloader. You need to be serious about reloading this if you do it in an AR. It could be improved upon, but as I stated earlier AA wants it in the original configuration.
Anyhow, bottom line is litigation as well. If someone hurt themselves putting hp into lp guns, they would have to bear that themselves. Insurance is a big player behind the scenes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MudBug</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike Hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My ony objection to the Grendel is the proprietary grip the developer has imposed on reamers, etc.
...
Greg</div></div>
I totally agree on that one. What's going to happen is if he doesn't move up with this project it's going to be moved over. I don't want to see that. But, I've watched as big gun companies do this to themselves as well. </div></div>
Another + 1 here. I've believed since the beginning that AA would sink themselves, and a good round, with that type of thinking/acting.
I understand what you guys are saying, and there are even times when I feel the same, but the 6.8 SPC went the other way and it almost died. If it hadn't been for a few people with the resources believing in it, then dumping a bunch of time and money into improving it and promoting it the 6.8 SPC would be on it's way to nowhere. </div></div>
I think the biggest thing holding both these rounds back is the criteria set by the "world market". Both were pretty much born of the same competition if not the exact same one and pretty much at the same time.
I think the 6.8 is doing better than it was initially because of changes made by various smaller players in the industry. Good changes. Like giving it a longer leade and hopping up pressure in the rounds. going with the most useful bullet weight for the cse size too. You can get, 3000 fps from one using a 100 gr. bullet. AA also lengthened the barrel and gas tube. Rem makes a bolt gun in this caliber and it gets all kinds of velocity.
But now, you have the .223/5.56 syndrome where you don't fire the high pressure bullet in the original chamber. And since we let the Europeans in on it they (CIP) say you have to call it something else. That is stupid. We've always had tinkerers with cartridges here and just noted what was done.
The 6.5 Grendel is getting <span style="text-decoration: line-through">twisted</span> {edit: worked} in every direction, but AA want's nothing to do with it. As mentioned in my previous paragraph, one of the ways you get a 5.56 (of equal dimensions to a .223 BTW) to get so hot is to lengthen the leade. Roy Weatherby was the first to incorporate that into a rifle in the 1940's. His is another one you have to watch what leade is in the barrel or your could end up with serious overpressure. AA also, won't change the gas length, because he wants to remain true to the original competition configuration. That's why when you look at his loads online there is a .5 gr. gap between low and high powder charges. The round definitely isn't for a casual reloader. You need to be serious about reloading this if you do it in an AR. It could be improved upon, but as I stated earlier AA wants it in the original configuration.
Anyhow, bottom line is litigation as well. If someone hurt themselves putting hp into lp guns, they would have to bear that themselves. Insurance is a big player behind the scenes.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I don't know about all of which you stated is facts. The Grendel is being use in bolt guns as we speak right now. I shot with Steve at Saturn barrels. He spoke very highly of the round. I know he has an invested interest the the round but his scores back what he was saying up. I think you may have to do some research for this round but it might be worth the effort.
As far as if this round is dead or not. I have seen more 6.8 than Creedmoors on the self. If that is the case I would worry about the Creedmoor. All the rounds are truly base around the 260. At least the Grendel is using less powder to get the job done. It might not shoot the heaiver rounds, but the 123s shoots very good in these guns. At least Laupa is making brass for this round. There must be something to it.
I don't know about all of which you stated is facts. The Grendel is being use in bolt guns as we speak right now. I shot with Steve at Saturn barrels. He spoke very highly of the round. I know he has an invested interest the the round but his scores back what he was saying up. I think you may have to do some research for this round but it might be worth the effort.
As far as if this round is dead or not. I have seen more 6.8 than Creedmoors on the self. If that is the case I would worry about the Creedmoor. All the rounds are truly base around the 260. At least the Grendel is using less powder to get the job done. It might not shoot the heaiver rounds, but the 123s shoots very good in these guns. At least Laupa is making brass for this round. There must be something to it.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about all of which you stated is facts. The Grendel is being use in bolt guns as we speak right now. I shot with Steve at Saturn barrels. He spoke very highly of the round. I know he has an invested interest the the round but his scores back what he was saying up. I think you may have to do some research for this round but it might be worth the effort.
As far as if this round is dead or not. I have seen more 6.8 than Creedmoors on the self. If that is the case I would worry about the Creedmoor. All the rounds are truly base around the 260. At least the Grendel is using less powder to get the job done. It might not shoot the heaiver rounds, but the 123s shoots very good in these guns. At least Laupa is making brass for this round. There must be something to it. </div></div>
dar,
I used to own a 24" overwatch upper. It was an excellent rifle and round in that rifle. But, it has some limitations. One limitation is from the original parameters put on it by the competition that spawned it, the midlength gas tube. I felt that if a gas tube was extended the length of the barrel or at least out to 18" you could use slower burning powders and get more velocity from them. I know that works in a .223/5.56 and it was one method of increasing velocity in a 6.8. Yes, I did do a lot of testing with the round. And it's a good round. But people have come along with improvements and AA doesn't want them. They want the original round in it's original state to get SAAMI approved that way.
Satern barrels has a vested interest in the 6.5 Grendel so yes they are going to speak highly of it. However, I speak highly of the round. And I think highly of Satern barrels. He turns out quality work. but it still doesn't preclude when something better comes along and you could easily incorporate it, why not?
Anyhow, to your original question. Yes, I would get a 6.5 Grendel for a bolt gun as a lightweight, low recoil alternative to smaller .308 case based calibers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know about all of which you stated is facts. The Grendel is being use in bolt guns as we speak right now. I shot with Steve at Saturn barrels. He spoke very highly of the round. I know he has an invested interest the the round but his scores back what he was saying up. I think you may have to do some research for this round but it might be worth the effort.
As far as if this round is dead or not. I have seen more 6.8 than Creedmoors on the self. If that is the case I would worry about the Creedmoor. All the rounds are truly base around the 260. At least the Grendel is using less powder to get the job done. It might not shoot the heaiver rounds, but the 123s shoots very good in these guns. At least Laupa is making brass for this round. There must be something to it. </div></div>
dar,
I used to own a 24" overwatch upper. It was an excellent rifle and round in that rifle. But, it has some limitations. One limitation is from the original parameters put on it by the competition that spawned it, the midlength gas tube. I felt that if a gas tube was extended the length of the barrel or at least out to 18" you could use slower burning powders and get more velocity from them. I know that works in a .223/5.56 and it was one method of increasing velocity in a 6.8. Yes, I did do a lot of testing with the round. And it's a good round. But people have come along with improvements and AA doesn't want them. They want the original round in it's original state to get SAAMI approved that way.
Satern barrels has a vested interest in the 6.5 Grendel so yes they are going to speak highly of it. However, I speak highly of the round. And I think highly of Satern barrels. He turns out quality work. but it still doesn't preclude when something better comes along and you could easily incorporate it, why not?
Anyhow, to your original question. Yes, I would get a 6.5 Grendel for a bolt gun as a lightweight, low recoil alternative to smaller .308 case based calibers.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Well sending everything off to the gunsmith today. I also found out that Hornady is going to start making brass and loaded ammo for the Grendel it will be a AR load but it is a start. They will also have dies for the gun.
Well sending everything off to the gunsmith today. I also found out that Hornady is going to start making brass and loaded ammo for the Grendel it will be a AR load but it is a start. They will also have dies for the gun.
Re: 6.5 grendal
They are also making dies,loaded ammno,brass and a 123 gr bullet.Hornady is stepping up to the plate.
They are also making dies,loaded ammno,brass and a 123 gr bullet.Hornady is stepping up to the plate.
Re: 6.5 grendal
The 19.5-28" AA barrels have always used a rifle length gas tube not a mid-length gas tube.
I have built a few Grendel bolt rifles using Rem 700 actions and it makes a very nice rifle. The 6.8 PSS rifle is a good base rifle from which to build a Grendel.
The 19.5-28" AA barrels have always used a rifle length gas tube not a mid-length gas tube.
I have built a few Grendel bolt rifles using Rem 700 actions and it makes a very nice rifle. The 6.8 PSS rifle is a good base rifle from which to build a Grendel.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I wonder if Hornady stayed with the small rifle primer and PPC flash hole?
Steve
I wonder if Hornady stayed with the small rifle primer and PPC flash hole?
Steve
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 19.5-28" AA barrels have always used a rifle length gas tube not a mid-length gas tube.
I have built a few Grendel bolt rifles using Rem 700 actions and it makes a very nice rifle. The 6.8 PSS rifle is a good base rifle from which to build a Grendel.</div></div>
You know I had to go back and look at the pics of the two uppers and what length gas tubes they had. Maybe it's just a misconception I had of my 6.5 Gas tube. Anyways, this is the only comparison I can make because all I have are pics left of them both:
RRA AR-15A2, full length 20" barrel
6.5 Grendel in 24" 'Overwatch' model
They seem a lot closer now that you mention it. I still thought the 6.5 Grendel was a couple inches shorter though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lima</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 19.5-28" AA barrels have always used a rifle length gas tube not a mid-length gas tube.
I have built a few Grendel bolt rifles using Rem 700 actions and it makes a very nice rifle. The 6.8 PSS rifle is a good base rifle from which to build a Grendel.</div></div>
You know I had to go back and look at the pics of the two uppers and what length gas tubes they had. Maybe it's just a misconception I had of my 6.5 Gas tube. Anyways, this is the only comparison I can make because all I have are pics left of them both:
RRA AR-15A2, full length 20" barrel
6.5 Grendel in 24" 'Overwatch' model
They seem a lot closer now that you mention it. I still thought the 6.5 Grendel was a couple inches shorter though.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Building a bolt with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number?
Building a bolt with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number?
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Building a bolt with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number? </div></div>
2600FPS would be a more realistic number.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Building a bolt with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number? </div></div>
2600FPS would be a more realistic number.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Thanks I will have it in a couple of weeks. I will post the results of the performance I get out of it.
Thanks I will have it in a couple of weeks. I will post the results of the performance I get out of it.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">Building a bolt</span> with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number? </div></div>
Does this mean that you are building a bolt action?
I'm asking because if that's the case you can probably push it a little more that you can in an AR where the bolt is the weakest link.
However, you will have to choose your powder carefully. I get 2700 fps out of my 108 grn Lapua Scenar loads, and while my loads are safe, if I went much further I would be pushing it. Also, I don't know if I could even fit much more powder in the case, my load is already compressed. (29 grns of Benchmark)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">Building a bolt</span> with a 24" 8.5 twist barrel. I will use the 123 laupas for now. I have 500 of them. I hope to see around 2700 to 2800 fps. Is this a realistic number? </div></div>
Does this mean that you are building a bolt action?
I'm asking because if that's the case you can probably push it a little more that you can in an AR where the bolt is the weakest link.
However, you will have to choose your powder carefully. I get 2700 fps out of my 108 grn Lapua Scenar loads, and while my loads are safe, if I went much further I would be pushing it. Also, I don't know if I could even fit much more powder in the case, my load is already compressed. (29 grns of Benchmark)
Re: 6.5 grendal
You can get to 2700fps with the bolt gun since you can run slightly hotter loads.
You can get to 2700fps with the bolt gun since you can run slightly hotter loads.
Re: 6.5 grendal
yes it is a bolt gun being built. I might be able to use a little hotter powder I would think. I will have to mess with it and choose the right one.
yes it is a bolt gun being built. I might be able to use a little hotter powder I would think. I will have to mess with it and choose the right one.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking somewhere around 27 to 28grs of powder is where I will end up.</div></div>
Probably more like 30+ gr. of AA2520 30.1 is the max but with a bolt gun you can go as hard as the case shows pressure. The 30.1 is the limit for a gas gun because at some point the carrier starts to unlock. If the timing is too long between peak and ebb pressure in the barrel the carriage will unlock the bolt and you lose strength of the lugs mated to the lug seats (for lack of a better description). Since you're doing a bolt action you won't have to worry about timing of the load to the rifle. I think it's an awesome decision personally.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking somewhere around 27 to 28grs of powder is where I will end up.</div></div>
Probably more like 30+ gr. of AA2520 30.1 is the max but with a bolt gun you can go as hard as the case shows pressure. The 30.1 is the limit for a gas gun because at some point the carrier starts to unlock. If the timing is too long between peak and ebb pressure in the barrel the carriage will unlock the bolt and you lose strength of the lugs mated to the lug seats (for lack of a better description). Since you're doing a bolt action you won't have to worry about timing of the load to the rifle. I think it's an awesome decision personally.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I'am kinda of excited about getting the gun. It is something new to play with and I think it might be a great gun for my kid.
I'am kinda of excited about getting the gun. It is something new to play with and I think it might be a great gun for my kid.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'am kinda of excited about getting the gun. It is something new to play with and I think it might be a great gun for my kid.</div></div>
Just don't get so happy about it he never see's it. Like my son's 8mm Rem classic ...that I've put over 200 rds. of M75 ammo through.
Seriously, what rifle are you having this built in? I've literally drooled over having a switch barrel in a 527 that I could have a 6.5 Grendel in. bolt and barrel or just barrel that I could do a 6 PPC or something else. Maybe even the 7.62x39 and use fed cases and US. made bullets. I know I can make that accurate.
Anyhow, sorry to come off as a 'naysayer/know-it-all'. I've reloaded for this round and found it to be everything I wished we would adopt as a combat round. Certain entities have put forth ideas to possibly enhance the performance of the round but I don't think it's going there. I still think it's great.
Good luck with this, I'm sure you will be happy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'am kinda of excited about getting the gun. It is something new to play with and I think it might be a great gun for my kid.</div></div>
Just don't get so happy about it he never see's it. Like my son's 8mm Rem classic ...that I've put over 200 rds. of M75 ammo through.
Seriously, what rifle are you having this built in? I've literally drooled over having a switch barrel in a 527 that I could have a 6.5 Grendel in. bolt and barrel or just barrel that I could do a 6 PPC or something else. Maybe even the 7.62x39 and use fed cases and US. made bullets. I know I can make that accurate.
Anyhow, sorry to come off as a 'naysayer/know-it-all'. I've reloaded for this round and found it to be everything I wished we would adopt as a combat round. Certain entities have put forth ideas to possibly enhance the performance of the round but I don't think it's going there. I still think it's great.
Good luck with this, I'm sure you will be happy.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I'am building it out of a 223. He is going to modify the bolt. I will need something different for the mag. well. I know what you mean. Its good for the kids. I think this round will be somewhat cheaper to load for.
I'am building it out of a 223. He is going to modify the bolt. I will need something different for the mag. well. I know what you mean. Its good for the kids. I think this round will be somewhat cheaper to load for.
Re: 6.5 grendal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Remm 223 just sitting around. It has a VTR barrel on it and it shots like crap. Time to build something on it.
I will call PTG and get a bolt from them. I'am kinda of fond of the Remmingtons. </div></div>
"VTR SHOOTS LIKE CRAP, KINDA FOND OF REMS?"
That makes little sense to me.
I have had my share of piss poor Rems went to other brands, and customs. I guess many Rems are bought, shoot bad, and the owners spend more to get them shooting, when a custom action could have been purchased. I must be missing something.
I have had a plethora of problematic 700s inc. a bolt handle breakage, long story short, no more for me. YMMV.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Remm 223 just sitting around. It has a VTR barrel on it and it shots like crap. Time to build something on it.
I will call PTG and get a bolt from them. I'am kinda of fond of the Remmingtons. </div></div>
"VTR SHOOTS LIKE CRAP, KINDA FOND OF REMS?"
That makes little sense to me.
I have had my share of piss poor Rems went to other brands, and customs. I guess many Rems are bought, shoot bad, and the owners spend more to get them shooting, when a custom action could have been purchased. I must be missing something.
I have had a plethora of problematic 700s inc. a bolt handle breakage, long story short, no more for me. YMMV.
Re: 6.5 grendal
The VTR do shoot like crap. But I have 7 customs on Rem. Actions and 1 Surgeon action.The surgeon had to have the bolt face taken down 2 thousandths to eject the shell. You can always find something wrong with anything. Roll with it.
Remmingtons are the foundation of custom actions. I have never had a bolt break not to say it hasn't happen before.
The VTR do shoot like crap. But I have 7 customs on Rem. Actions and 1 Surgeon action.The surgeon had to have the bolt face taken down 2 thousandths to eject the shell. You can always find something wrong with anything. Roll with it.
Remmingtons are the foundation of custom actions. I have never had a bolt break not to say it hasn't happen before.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I will say I was more dicussed about spending 1200 for an action that did not work properly than 500 with no problems.I shot about 18000 rounds last year without a problem.
I will say I was more dicussed about spending 1200 for an action that did not work properly than 500 with no problems.I shot about 18000 rounds last year without a problem.
Re: 6.5 grendal
Back to your ?, I built a 7BR on a M7 years back for my 10 yr old, 21" .700 OD, shot well, 2878 mv w/120s, 130@2670, 139@2544.
I would recommend a 6 or 6.5BR, and a 6.5G is not bad. Otherwise a light reduced recoil load can be worked up for kids in a 260, or similar round.
I have heard no good reports on the VTRs myself for whatever reason. No doubt a custom Rem blueprinted will shoot, but after using a Stiller, I doubt I will ever use another Rem myself.
The CZ as is in the 7.62 is not a bad way for kids/women, handy carbine, 125/130s will keep recoil down and plenty of cheap plinking ammo as well.
I have killed deer to 400 yds w/a 6BR FWIW, using a 105 at 2850.
Back to your ?, I built a 7BR on a M7 years back for my 10 yr old, 21" .700 OD, shot well, 2878 mv w/120s, 130@2670, 139@2544.
I would recommend a 6 or 6.5BR, and a 6.5G is not bad. Otherwise a light reduced recoil load can be worked up for kids in a 260, or similar round.
I have heard no good reports on the VTRs myself for whatever reason. No doubt a custom Rem blueprinted will shoot, but after using a Stiller, I doubt I will ever use another Rem myself.
The CZ as is in the 7.62 is not a bad way for kids/women, handy carbine, 125/130s will keep recoil down and plenty of cheap plinking ammo as well.
I have killed deer to 400 yds w/a 6BR FWIW, using a 105 at 2850.
Re: 6.5 grendal
The Grendal is an experiment and something for my kid. Would like to see what it would do in a bolt.
I also looked at a 6mmar but a Grendal components is aviable.
Iadmit there is some great actions out there.I have 2 Lawtons on order for another project. I have heard good things about Stillers also.
The Grendal is an experiment and something for my kid. Would like to see what it would do in a bolt.
I also looked at a 6mmar but a Grendal components is aviable.
Iadmit there is some great actions out there.I have 2 Lawtons on order for another project. I have heard good things about Stillers also.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I have looked at the 6.5G myself extensively, if you accept it will not do what a 6.5BR or 7BR can do, it's a good round in it's own right. Odds are you are not wanting a long range round anyway since you are doing it for a youngster. It's sure to please, should be very mild firing. Even a 100gr B tip will do in WT deer. Should be a solid 200-300 yd rifle.
I have looked at the 6.5G myself extensively, if you accept it will not do what a 6.5BR or 7BR can do, it's a good round in it's own right. Odds are you are not wanting a long range round anyway since you are doing it for a youngster. It's sure to please, should be very mild firing. Even a 100gr B tip will do in WT deer. Should be a solid 200-300 yd rifle.
Re: 6.5 grendal
I would think that a 123 laupa going 2800 fps would also be a 600 yd gun. I really don't know for sure yet. I will have it in 2 weeks and I will post some results I get from this project.
I would think that a 123 laupa going 2800 fps would also be a 600 yd gun. I really don't know for sure yet. I will have it in 2 weeks and I will post some results I get from this project.
