6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

[Bowman]

I have been looking at the Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel lately and I really like it. I already have a 5.56 AR and a 7.62 AR and was looking to add one more to complete the collection.

I did some reading and was trying to decide between the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel. From what I have learned thus far, I am less than impressed with the 6.8 round for my application. I am essentially looking for a semi platform that is good from 100 to roughly 1200 yards.

I am only a paper/steel slayer so I don't need the extra energy to punch a hole in the paper. I also plan on gearing up for competitions. I don't hunt either which just reaffirms the fact that I really don't need the extra energy. I guess my disappointment with the 6.8 is it's lack of range. A 75 or 77 grain 5.56 round performs almost identically in terms of range.

The numbers that I have seen on the 6.5 are phenomenal. I am shocked that this round has not been more popular. From what I have seen the 6.5 is equal to or a smidge better than the 7.62.

On to my questions:

Is this a niche market weapon that will lose popularity when a new flavor comes along?

Will support/parts for the weapon diminish in the near future?

It should be noted that I don't reload. Will ammo manufacturers increase their production of this round? Will more manufacturers begin producing this round?

Am I pretty much forced into learning how to reload if I adopt this weapon?

 

[ORD]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

The 6.5 Grendel is an incredible cartridge that allows impressive performance out of the standard AR-15 lower. Ballistically, the 6.5G definitely offers you a welath of high BC bullets to chose from that can get to you 1k and beyond depending on your skill set. That said...

If you don't reload and you don't want to start (or if you aren't independently wealthy)...stick with the 5.56 and the 7.62 AR platform rifles or get a bolt gun for longer distances where you won't put quite as much ammo down-range. You'll lose your shirt (or end up with a second job) trying to find and buy 6.5G ammo in sufficient supply to practice and compete with it. There are some cheaper offerings for the 6.5G slowly becoming available (Wolf, etc.), but none of them will get you competitive or enable you to accurately reach out to the ranges you are talking about. Also, assuming that you can get the most accuracy/performance out of your rifle at extended ranges with ANY factory offering (match or otherwise) is asking a lot. Also, as I said, price is high too. You'll pay roughly $1.00-$1.50/round for match ammo (123gr Scenar, A-Max, etc.) and it isn't ever going to get cheaper. By reloading, you open up a whole range of high BC 6.5mm bullets that are ideal for the Grendel, and you can get your costs down to 1/3 (or less) the cost of factory ammo.

Don't be afraid to get into reloading. It can be daunting for a newbie, but there is no reason to let it intimidate you. You can get a basic, single-stage reloading press kit (scales, powder thrower, press, etc., etc.) for <$300, plus the cost of your dies. Powder, bullets, primers and brass are pretty variable in terms of cost, but once you get the the big items out of the way, it won't take long to break even and start seeing the savings versus buying factory match ammo.

As for future availability of parts, etc., the short answer is "Who knows?!?" The 6.5G is relatively new, but it has gained a ton of momentum and a sizeable following at least in the AR community (and rightly so). I don't see it going anywhere in the near future, but who knows what 10, 15, etc. years down the road may hold.

 

[Scotts556]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

To my understanding, the 6.8 SPC is by no means a long range round. The 6.5 Grendel with its high BC 6,5 mm bullets would be better suited to your task at hand. From what i have read the 6.5 Grendel is slightly Better than the 308 cartridge at long range.



Scott

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

ORD, I think you're absolutely right on all accounts. The biggest factor when deciding to buy a 5.6G sounds like it really depends on a person's willingness to reload. This may just be the weapons that forces me to learn.

I am not independently wealthy so yes, I will need some way to get these rounds without taking out a second mortgage. I think in a "worse case scenario", if rounds stop being produced for the 6.5G altogether, it would be best to know how to reload from the beginning.

I normally turn the other way on "exotic" rounds because of the high price and limited supplies, however, I can't continue to ignore the awesome performance of this round.

I have a lot of other bolt guns that I can reload for as well. If I learn to reload then it may open up a whole new world for me which includes a .260 and a .375 which I have been ignoring for a long time due to the fact that I don't reload. I attempted to read up on reloading on a number of occasions but it only increased my confusion and frustration. It seems that there are endless variables that go into developing a load and then actually producing it.

I digress, back to the topic. If I do decide to take the plunge, would any of you recommend getting an Alexander Arms straight from the company, or would money be better spent in having somebody else build it? I know the folks at Alexander Arms are going through some growing pains right now which makes me question their QC.

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scotts556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To my understanding, the 6.8 SPC is by no means a long range round. The 6.5 Grendel with its high BC 6,5 mm bullets would be better suited to your task at hand. From what i have read the 6.5 Grendel is slightly Better than the 308 cartridge at long range.



Scott </div></div>

Thx Scott....and I totally agree.

 

[everyreggie]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Ammo is NOT hard to get! Precision Firearms has a ton, but you will pay $1.00-$1.35 per round. It is not cheap but available. Wolf is really not available right now as from what I hear, they had a factory fire and are behind in production.
i recently bought Hornady factory for $18.80 a box but it is flying off the shelves and they are having a hard time keeping up with demand right now.

The grendel isn't going anywhere anytime soon and there are many companies copying (for the most part...I know, I know they are slightly different)it. In fact I have one built by Precision Firearms and it is very nice!

AA quality is good just very slow...

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: everyreggie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ammo is NOT hard to get! Precision Firearms has a ton, but you will pay $1.00-$1.35 per round. It is not cheap but available. Wolf is really not available right now as from what I hear, they had a factory fire and are behind in production.
i recently bought Hornady factory for $18.80 a box but it is flying off the shelves and they are having a hard time keeping up with demand right now.

The grendel isn't going anywhere anytime soon and there are many companies copying (for the most part...I know, I know they are slightly different)it. In fact I have one built by Precision Firearms and it is very nice! </div></div>

That is good to hear. I can't believe that Hornady is selling 6.5G for less than a buck/round!! Are you sure they aren't 5 round boxes? LOL. Seriously though, I have seen 6.5 brass going for a buck/casing....so that price is awesome. I'm happy to see that the Grendel is picking up steam. It's getting harder for me to say "no" to picking up this rifle.

 

[everyreggie]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Just google "Hornady 6.5 Grendel ammo for sale" and you will see it is pretty reasonable just on backorder everywhere!

Check out the grendel afficianado forum for more specific info on this subject! http://www.65grendel.com/forum/

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Alexander Arms is fine and all, but I'd recommend going with 'hide vendor and a known builder of accurate as all get out AR's for a 6.5G build:

Scottmilk9
www.specializeddynamics.com

His site's under construction, but he's the best bang for the buck in AR's that I know of.........

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: everyreggie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just google "Hornady 6.5 Grendel ammo for sale" and you will see it is pretty reasonable just on backorder everywhere!

Check out the grendel afficianado forum for more specific info on this subject! http://www.65grendel.com/forum/ </div></div>

I did quite a bit of reading on that website. It does have some really helpful info.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alexander Arms is fine and all, but I'd recommend going with 'hide vendor and a known builder of accurate as all get out AR's for a 6.5G build:

Scottmilk9
www.specializeddynamics.com

His site's under construction, but he's the best bang for the buck in AR's that I know of......... </div></div>

Thx Sobrbiker....that is exactly the type of info that I'm looking for. I'm gonna give this guy a call. Does he provide the rifle? Or do I get one and ship it to him?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Bowman,
He can build you a rifle or an upper you can drop on your existing lower.
He's got a great name here and in the predator hunting community.

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

I just got off of the phone with Scott. That man is a class act. He's got me down for a brand new 6.5G build for a crazy price. Right now, I couldn't be happier.

Thx for the heads-up Sobrbiker!

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Bowman,

Kind of a word of caution here. Or at least a kind of reality check.

The 6.5 Grendel is a great round...for what it is intended. It's not a super round. In fact it's one of the slower rounds out to 1K. If you want something that is going to be "competitive" in 6.5mm I would look at a 6.5x47 or a 6.5 Creedmoor on your 7.62 platform (that is if you have an AR-10 not another type semi-auto 7.62) Or even a .260 Rem. You can shoot heavier bullets faster. But, here's the catch: not on an AR-15 platform. This is where the Grendel singles itself out. To get the higher performance you need to go up to the AR-10 build. There is the other option and that is a .243 WSSM for a bunch more power. it has better BC bullets than the 6.5 and more power.

As far as the 6.8 comparing to the 6.5 I think you nailed it on the head for what you want. Because increased energy is the only enhancement of the 6.8 over the 5.56 in the AR-15 platform.

So, all I'm trying to say here is the 6.5 can get you out as far as you are saying you want to shoot, but it won't get you there as competitively as some other cartridges. Mull over what you need.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got off of the phone with Scott. That man is a class act. He's got me down for a brand new 6.5G build for a crazy price. Right now, I couldn't be happier.

Thx for the heads-up Sobrbiker! </div></div>

Glad to help, I think you'll be even happier once you have it!

As sandwarrior points out, the 6.5G isn't a 260 killer, but it is a rifle that will shoot inside a 308 out to 1100+ in a small AR platform, what's not to like?

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bowman,

Kind of a word of caution here. Or at least a kind of reality check.

The 6.5 Grendel is a great round...for what it is intended. It's not a super round. In fact it's one of the slower rounds out to 1K. If you want something that is going to be "competitive" in 6.5mm I would look at a 6.5x47 or a 6.5 Creedmoor on your 7.62 platform (that is if you have an AR-10 not another type semi-auto 7.62) Or even a .260 Rem. You can shoot heavier bullets faster. But, here's the catch: not on an AR-15 platform. This is where the Grendel singles itself out. To get the higher performance you need to go up to the AR-10 build. There is the other option and that is a .243 WSSM for a bunch more power. it has better BC bullets than the 6.5 and more power.

As far as the 6.8 comparing to the 6.5 I think you nailed it on the head for what you want. Because increased energy is the only enhancement of the 6.8 over the 5.56 in the AR-15 platform.

So, all I'm trying to say here is the 6.5 can get you out as far as you are saying you want to shoot, but it won't get you there as competitively as some other cartridges. Mull over what you need.
</div></div>

Good info and definitely food for thought. I actually pondered this and found that the faster rounds tend to be "barrel burners." I think that out of all the rounds available, the 6.5G is the best "have your cake and eat it too" round possible. Great info Sandwarrior. Thank you for givin' me the heads up!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad to help, I think you'll be even happier once you have it!

As sandwarrior points out, the 6.5G isn't a 260 killer, but it is a rifle that will shoot inside a 308 out to 1100+ in a small AR platform, what's not to like? </div></div>

I totally agree. Now I better start reading up on the reloading equipment that I'll need. Scott also offered to give me help with my load info.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Bowman,

Also, on the .308 analogy. There are a few uber-high BC bullets the Grendel can shoot fast enough that beat a .308 @ 1k. But the problem is those are being compared to .308 bullets without high BC's. When you compare high BC .308 bullets pushed out 200 fps faster than the ones the Grendel uses, they will beat the Grendel. They will also spank the Grendel handily within 600 yds.

This theory is based on the bullet remaining supersonic through 1k. Sometimes even though the bullet doesn't remain supersonic out to 1k, it remains stable enough through trans-sonic flight to give you good accuracy.

The big factors to me for getting one, was less recoil and more efficiency of the Grendel round vs. the .308. I wanted to see if it indeed was what it proposed itself to be from a military standpoint.

In my opinion, it is a better solution than either remaining with 5.56 or going back to the .308.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bowman,

Also, on the .308 analogy. There are a few uber-high BC bullets the Grendel can shoot fast enough that beat a .308 @ 1k. But the problem is those are being compared to .308 bullets without high BC's. When you compare high BC .308 bullets pushed out 200 fps faster than the ones the Grendel uses, they will beat the Grendel. They will also spank the Grendel handily within 600 yds.

This theory is based on the bullet remaining supersonic through 1k. Sometimes even though the bullet doesn't remain supersonic out to 1k, it remains stable enough through trans-sonic flight to give you good accuracy.

The big factors to me for getting one, was less recoil and more efficiency of the Grendel round vs. the .308. I wanted to see if it indeed was what it proposed itself to be from a military standpoint.

In my opinion, it is a better solution than either remaining with 5.56 or going back to the .308. </div></div>

Even running slower don't you get a little better advantage on the wind was well?

 

[jthyttin]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Grendel fanatics seem to annoy me. I run a comparison (JBM ballistics) using Vihtavuori load data (24" barrel), and volume-wise comparable bullet weights. 123gr Scenar for Grendel and 190gr Berger for 308 (load data was for 190gr Sierra at mag length). Comparisons in MIL.

Starting at 2490fps, Grendel is supersonic to 980y. 308 starts at 2620fps and flies supersonic to 1180y. Windage is equivalent, drop is 15% more for 308.

If we look at the 980y numbers, Grendel has a quarter more drop (22%) and windage (28%).

My conclusion? 308 gives either 20% more range or 25% more error marginal, compared to Grendel. Is it worth it? Maybe.

 

[Jon A]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Except with a 24" the Grendel is 2600+ with a 123. Hornady factory ammo will beat the ballistics you listed easily.

Comparing a 308 shooting 190's would be more apples to apples with a Grendel shooting 140's which top out around 2400 (I run them at a mild 2300). Run the numbers on a 140 VLD at that velocity and check the wind drift and supersonic range.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

People who annoy me are the ones who compare apples to oranges.

6.5 grendel is in a small framed(.223) AR and the .308 is in the large framed AR.

Some can't afford to get the whole gun, so they go with an upper that can be put on their .223 lower.

Also, a 190 Berger is not the norm for .308 shooters, compare it to a 168 or a 175. Also on that note, 2490 seems to be a little low for a comparison too. I use a 108 scenar and pushing it 2640fps.

my grendel @2600fps and 10mph 3 oclock wind
300yd - 4.5moa/ 1.75 moa
500yd - 11.25 moa/ 3.6 moa
800yd - 23.75moa/ 5.75 moa

my 308 @ 2660fps and 10mph 3 oclock win
300yd - 4.25moa/ 2.0moa
500yd - 10.8moa/ 3.5moa
800yd - 23.75moa / 6.3moa

My grendel is a 18" and my 308 bolt gun is a 22"

 

[jthyttin]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Last time I checked, bullets came in 3 dimensions, so 190gr 308 is on the light side compared to 123gr 264cal (190/.308^3 vs. 123gr/.264^3).

When it comes to load data, please try to compare data from single source. Some people claim to sling 208gr 2600+fps from 20" 308. I just checked Hodgdon reloading data, seemed to mostly agree with Vihtavuori. 190gr was a bit slower (I know it's a different bullet, but I started this whole substitution game...)

Scottmilk9: of course 308 comes in heavier package; that's why I stated:

"Is it worth it? Maybe."

In large frame you have ballistically better options also. Do I hear 6.5x284 or 300WSM?

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

jthyttin, I 100% agree with you that the better options are available in the large framed guns, like you said: 6x5x284, etc..

But also lets agree that in the small framed AR15's, its hard to beat the ballistics of the 6.5 grendel. I'm sure there are some wildcat cartridges out there that will beat it, but the 6.5grendel(.264lbc) is close to being a standarized cartridge.

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

I have 5 different weapons that take 308 rounds and am extremely happy with them. 2 M1As, 1 Noveske, and a couple of TacOps bolt rifles. Don't get me wrong, I love the 308s and they shoot well for me.

The Grendel is just a badass though. I'm in the mood for a new round and I think the 6.5 fits the bill perfectly.

It's also high time for my lazy ass to learn to reload. This way I can reload for the 6.5 and my 300wm which is wayyyy more expensive to shoot than the 6.5 could ever be.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Roughly, how much would a whole upper assy cost? I've been thinking about getting one but cant find much on the prices.

 

[juliomorris]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

If you want the Ar15 size package the 6.5 can't be beat. If you jump up to the AR-10 Package the 243 pushing 115 gr DTACs at 3050fps beats out all comparable size cartridges. But the guy asked about the 6.5G which in the package you get, it can't be beat. I can't say it how well it would work out to 1200 more likely a 1000. But He!! i can't see that far.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

 

[utahstroke]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

I have both the 6.5 Grendel, Vltor upper 18" Saber 1-8 twist loading 123gr Amax and AR10(LR260) platform in 260 Remington DPMS Upper and Lower 24" heavy barrel 1-8.5 twist loading 142gr SMK.
Both are great shooters and hold there own with my bolt guns.
Get the Grendel, reload and shoot it. No regrets.

 

[fdkay]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

One thing to keep in mind, the Grendel was designed around a 24" barrel, and all of the hype surrounding it comes from this.
The 6.8 was designed around a 16" barrel, if you run a SPCII chamber, 1-11" twist and a 20" barrel with the tactical loads, it competes better with the 6.5, but will not equal it in long range.

That being said, they are 2 completely different rounds, one is based on a case and design of a match cartridge (6.5 PPC) the other was deisgned as a battle cartridge to give significantly more puch in short barrel CQB type weapons, while mimicking the drop and wind drift out to about 500 yards of the .308.
There is a reason the 6.8 is very similar in ballistics to the 75 and 77 grain bullets, they have nearly the same BC, but being 35 grains heavier, they hit much harder.
If you were shooting out to 500 yards, I'd say it was a wash, but since you are intending on shooting much further and you have PLAINLY stated that your intention is to put holes in paper and ring steel, get the Grendel, it is FAR superior in this regard.
The biggest knock on the grendel is due to the case design, it is not really suitable for full auto fire. But that is not really an issue with most shooters anyway.
Get your grendel, buy a case of wolf brass cased grendel ammo and harvest the brass and reload to your hearts content. Hornady has released a new bullet spefically designed for the grendel, sierra has light weight matchkings and lapua of course has the scenars.
Happy shooting.

 

[Dirknar]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Grendels are cool, build one..Its easy.

22" Lothar Walther barrel/bolt/pri gas block, locktite bedded the extension into receiver. Dont get any on the threads..
http://www.competitionshooting.com/catalogue/category33/p1612

Sundevil slickside billet upper.
BCM m16 carrier.
RRA 2-stage trigger.

This was the second outing with the rifle. I was still doing load dev. I think it would get tighter with a better optic and mounts..its a nikon 3-12.. Its actually a little fuzzy @ 100yards.

 

[Jon A]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jthyttin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last time I checked, bullets came in 3 dimensions, so 190gr 308 is on the light side compared to 123gr 264cal (190/.308^3 vs. 123gr/.264^3).</div></div>
It was meant in terms of what is commonly used and widely available in factory match ammo. For the Grendel, it's 123, for the 308 it's 168-175. Of course you can handload heavier bullets in the 308 and improve upon its performance at long range, but you can do the same in the Grendel.

The biggest flaw with your comparison was the velocity used for the Grendel--people have clocked the Hornady factory stuff nearly 200 FPS faster than that. While it might not keep up with a 308 loaded to the max with 208's, the difference isn't anywhere near as large as your comparison made it to be especially when using heavier bullets in the Grendel.

Which gets back to the original point of the Grendel--that much long range accuracy with a (relatively) standardized round out of the AR-15 platform. Along with all the other reasons it's attractive, getting extremely good accuracy is just so easy with an AR-15.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jthyttin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grendel fanatics seem to annoy me. I run a comparison (JBM ballistics) using Vihtavuori load data (24" barrel), and volume-wise comparable bullet weights. 123gr Scenar for Grendel and 190gr Berger for 308 (load data was for 190gr Sierra at mag length). Comparisons in MIL.

Starting at 2490fps, Grendel is supersonic to 980y. 308 starts at 2620fps and flies supersonic to 1180y. Windage is equivalent, drop is 15% more for 308.

If we look at the 980y numbers, Grendel has a quarter more drop (22%) and windage (28%).

My conclusion? 308 gives either 20% more range or 25% more error marginal, compared to Grendel. Is it worth it? Maybe.</div></div>

Well, I'd say you have to run some reasonable numbers for starters. If you are getting 2620 out of a 190 gr. bullet from a .308 you are risking blowing your face off! Start out by chronographing reasonable velocities. And, when you use various bullets on that site make sure you use the right ones. Litz likes to downplay his competitors

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Grendel is just a badass though. I'm in the mood for a new round and I think the 6.5 fits the bill perfectly.

It's also high time for my lazy ass to learn to reload. This way I can reload for the 6.5 and my 300wm which is wayyyy more expensive to shoot than the 6.5 could ever be. </div></div>

I think your original query has been answered. I think you will dig your choice, and are informed enough to understand the difference between a "best of both worlds" setup like a 6.5G and a full built 1000 yard match gun like a 6.5-284

All the beating on ballistic calculators makes for great conversation, but it pales in comparison to the awe someone usually feels when a platform built on their little familiar mousegun smokes a 308 shooting 168 or 175 FGMM at what I consider mid range shooting.

I'm not really sure where sandwarrior's hard-on for the 6.5G comes from.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Grendel is a good caliber. I currently have two uppers in 6.5 Grendel and they shoot GREAT. As was mention it is to your benefit to reload for this caliber. You could buy loaded ammo, but the cost would be high. Hornaday now has ammo and brass for the grendel. Good luck.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And, when you use various bullets on that site make sure you use the right ones. Litz likes to downplay his competitors </div></div>

Are you saying that Bryan Litz doctors his reported G7 radar research to favor his employer over the competition? I just want to be clear that that is in fact what you are publicly inferring in writing.......

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Grendel is just a badass though. I'm in the mood for a new round and I think the 6.5 fits the bill perfectly.

It's also high time for my lazy ass to learn to reload. This way I can reload for the 6.5 and my 300wm which is wayyyy more expensive to shoot than the 6.5 could ever be. </div></div>

I think your original query has been answered. I think you will dig your choice, and are informed enough to understand the difference between a "best of both worlds" setup like a 6.5G and a full built 1000 yard match gun like a 6.5-284

All the beating on ballistic calculators makes for great conversation, but it pales in comparison to the awe someone usually feels when a platform built on their little familiar mousegun smokes a 308 shooting 168 or 175 FGMM at what I consider mid range shooting.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm not really sure where sandwarrior's hard-on for the 6.5G comes from.</span></div></div>

Sobrbiker883,

It's not a hard on for it. At least not against it. It's just that I hear guys getting on here and talking likes it's the "do-all" round. I think you put it in perspective best when you said, "I think you understand the difference between a 'best of both worlds' round like the 6.5 Grendel and a full built 1000 yd. gun like the 6.5-.284"

All I'm saying is as long as they understand that, that is what the round is meant for. In my last post I did say I think it's better than the 5.56 and better than going back to the 7.62. In case that wasn't understood.

FWIW, I did own and reload for one. I never quite got the velocities that AA did. But, I wasn't disappointed either. Even at the slightly limited velocities I was getting my bullets stayed supersonic past 1k.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And, when you use various bullets on that site make sure you use the right ones. Litz likes to downplay his competitors </div></div>

Are you saying that Bryan Litz doctors his reported G7 radar research to favor his employer over the competition? I just want to be clear that that is in fact what you are publicly inferring in writing.......</div></div>

You are correct Sobr, That is a bad way to state that and I apologize.

I will say that a number of bullets he has done calculations for on the JBM site show more drop and more drag when listed as his calculation than by the original manufacturer. Yet the same bullet when I shoot it <span style="color: #3366FF">{edit: at given ranges,}</span> remains above the transonic range when I shoot it. Two such bullets are the .264" 123 gr. and the .308 155 gr. Lapua Scenars

The only thing I do with the calculators is get an idea of what I want to use. So I basically know how far it is going to get me. I then have to take it to the real world to know the rest. As Litz has done an outstanding job in the arena of ballistics I will say the small amount of error found could go either way.

<span style="color: #3366FF">{Edit: to my understanding he uses actual drop/velocity data at longer ranges than previously computed. He also has created the G7 model which is used to calculate drop/velocity the rest of the way from actual data to however far. My understanding is that he does not use actual data past 600 yds. From there and beyond is based on the G7 model.}</span>

 

[Tactical30]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Build a Grendel and start reloading... dont look back.
I did. I am very happy with my build below. Very, Very accurate.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Nice rifle LR30!

SW-gotcha.
I'm not surpised Bryan's numbers for other than Bergers show more drop and drag than their manufacturers. Most manufacturers fib a bit on their BC's in my experience. For example, my 162 Amax's work in all my ballistic calc programs when I drop the G1 from .625 claimed to .580 (just a fresh example as I'm actually making a drop chart for my 7-08 for a match this weekend).....
I think Berger's advertised BC's went down after Bryan got on board.

 

[Jon A]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

I really hope anybody who would impugn Bryan's integrity or competence has one hell of an elaborate, instrumented setup with which to measure BC's and has some actual hard data as backup.

FYI, the poorer data (CD) for the 123 in JBM does not come from Bryan, it comes directly from Lapua's Doppler radar testing at Yuma. If somebody has better equipment than that laying around in his backyard and found the data to be incorrect, by all means post it up. But it's Lapua you have an issue with, not Bryan.

In my own limited testing with a relatively low-tech setup (dual Oehler's fired over simultaneously) compared with Bryan's, my numbers have matched his very closely--well within my own margin of error (which is much larger than his).

 

[Switchblade]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

I wonder how hard it would be to redo an SKS in 6.5Grendal. That would give me a good excuse to swap out the 5.56 on the M4gery so I could have all 308's or 6.5's with teh kids .22's and M1 Garand being the exception

 

[skinnj1]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

A grendel on an sks is a no go. The fixed magazine has the shape for the considerable taper of the 7.62x39 a grendel is much more "improved" in shape you could go 6.5x39 though......

 

[generalquark]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

From what I have read on it and experienced, it seems to be a fantastic overall round. I would suggest building one.

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longrange30</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Build a Grendel and start reloading... dont look back.
I did. I am very happy with my build below. Very, Very accurate.

</div></div>

Absolutely beautiful!

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

So it begins. I have just read "reloading 101" (again) and have decided to get my reloading manuals before I do anything else. Once I have a good idea on what loads I'm gonna use I'll grab manuals for those bullets.

Then I'll start buying all of my equipment. Thanks again for all of your help and input guys.

I have a feeling that the majority of my time on this site will now be spent in the reloading area. **Sigh** I hate being new again.

 

[Dirknar]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bowman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So it begins. I have just read "reloading 101" (again) and have decided to get my reloading manuals before I do anything else. Once I have a good idea on what loads I'm gonna use I'll grab manuals for those bullets.

Then I'll start buying all of my equipment. Thanks again for all of your help and input guys.

I have a feeling that the majority of my time on this site will now be spent in the reloading area. **Sigh** I hate being new again. </div></div>

Great Idea on the Manuel's, however I dont think the Grendel will be in any of them because of the newness of the cartridge. The new 123gr Hornady A-max bullet deffinatly wont be in there..

Lots of load info @ 6.5grendel forum site though.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

If your looking for 6.5 Grendel reloading info (load data)
Alexander arms has a good chart on the AA website and Hodgdon also has a good chart too.
Also check the 65grendel.com (forum) for other onfo and data.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

Dirknar,

The 6.5 Grendel is starting to show up online in the powder manuals. It's in Hodgdon, Accurate Arms, Ramshot and Vihtavouri manuals. Not to mention all the information on the AA website.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

As was posted you will find a lot of loading data on the 6.5 Grendel Forum. That is where I got my loading data when I started loading for this caliber. I also found some loading data for the Grendel in the Hodgdon's 2010 Annual manual. Some of that data I used to load with some new Hornday brass. Shot it today and it was easily 1/2 moa or better at 100 yards. GRENDEL ROCKS.

 

[NordicG3K]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

If you're going to stick with the AR15 platform then the Grendel is hard to beat. My first build was an 18"er that I plan to hunt with this year (it's a bit heavy so I don't plan to hike too far with it though). My current build is a 12.5" SBR. The popular vote was for a 6.8, but I saw no need to reload for yet another caliber when I'm already set up for the Grendel. I just finished the upper so I haven't had a chance to do any accuracy or chrono testing yet. It's certainly fun though!

 

[Bowman]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NordicG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to stick with the AR15 platform then the Grendel is hard to beat. My first build was an 18"er that I plan to hunt with this year (it's a bit heavy so I don't plan to hike too far with it though). My current build is a 12.5" SBR. The popular vote was for a 6.8, but I saw no need to reload for yet another caliber when I'm already set up for the Grendel. I just finished the upper so I haven't had a chance to do any accuracy or chrono testing yet. It's certainly fun though!

</div></div>

Very nice! I still don't know what length that I'm going to get as far as my barrel is concerned. I want to be consistent at least at 1000 and below. I wonder if the difference between a 16" and an 18" would be noticeable at 1000.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 6.5 Grendel Questions / Worries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NordicG3K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to stick with the AR15 platform then the Grendel is hard to beat. My first build was an 18"er that I plan to hunt with this year (it's a bit heavy so I don't plan to hike too far with it though). My current build is a 12.5" SBR. The popular vote was for a 6.8, but I saw no need to reload for yet another caliber when I'm already set up for the Grendel. I just finished the upper so I haven't had a chance to do any accuracy or chrono testing yet. It's certainly fun though!

</div></div>

Please if you would post some results and ranges on that 12.5 inch 6.5 gren would be great to see what kind of results you get with that.