6.5 Grendel

[LRRPF52]

Has anybody tried the new Hornady 100 gr ELD-VT bullet in 6.5 Gren? I wish Hornady would list the bullet lengths and provide more info on the velocity limits of bullet expansion on their website (for all their product lines). Seems like this 100 gr bullet with great BC would work well in the Grendel, so long as there is enough headspace for it. 6.5 G isn't designed for the longer heavy for caliber bullets like 22 ARC and 6 ARC though, so I have some doubts.

I have shot the factory 100gr ELD-VT ammo through the 17.6” Lilja barrel Grendel out to 1000yds, yes.

First shot was 700yds, easy connect on a large gong, went to 800yds, skipped 900yds and just went to the 1000yd gong to see where it was hitting. Adjusted elevation to impact the waterline so I could see how many mils for centered-up at 1k.

It was surprisingly-loud on-target. Winds were minimal at maybe 4-5mph if I recall. I was probably 12/12 at 1000yds with it on the gong. My 8yr-old boy was maybe 4/5, having never shot out to 1k before.

Someone did a pull-down of it and took all those measurements. ES was really tight from his measurements with the Garmin.

Seems like the intent of this load is for slaying yotes out to 500yds, since .223 Rem runs out of gas after 250-300yds generally. It also makes a fun target load for easy connecting on steel at distance.

 

[Towhead]

I have shot the factory 100gr ELD-VT ammo through the 17.6” Lilja barrel Grendel out to 1000yds, yes.

First shot was 700yds, easy connect on a large gong, went to 800yds, skipped 900yds and just went to the 1000yd gong to see where it was hitting. Adjusted elevation to impact the waterline so I could see how many mils for centered-up at 1k.

It was surprisingly-loud on-target. Winds were minimal at maybe 4-5mph if I recall. I was probably 12/12 at 1000yds with it on the gong. My 8yr-old boy was maybe 4/5, having never shot out to 1k before.

Someone did a pull-down of it and took all those measurements. ES was really tight from his measurements with the Garmin.

Seems like the intent of this load is for slaying yotes out to 500yds, since .223 Rem runs out of gas after 250-300yds generally. It also makes a fun target load for easy connecting on steel at distance.

Man you are a wealth of info. Thank you for all the responses. I guess I need to check the factory loads more often instead of assuming I'm going to have to reload. I would agree on the coyotes. Hogs may be too tough for this varmint round. Might frag too soon. Could likely take a deer in a pinch, but may not be an ethical or quick kill. What are your thoughts on using this bullet on game beyond coyotes?

 

[LRRPF52]

Man you are a wealth of info. Thank you for all the responses. I guess I need to check the factory loads more often instead of assuming I'm going to have to reload. I would agree on the coyotes. Hogs may be too tough for this varmint round. Might frag too soon. Could likely take a deer in a pinch, but may not be an ethical or quick kill. What are your thoughts on using this bullet on game beyond coyotes?

DoubleNaughtSpy just posted video of shooting hogs with it and I think it’s as you guessed, frags a bit early and hogs ran off a bit. First-round hogs were DRT, but runners were hard to put down. Distances seemed pretty far though to try to hit runners.

For first-round on a deer broadside or quartering away, I would expect fast kills due to velocity. It will wreck the vitals pretty bad based on what is being seen from recovered fragments. It’s performing as it was designed to do with that hollow cavity up front and the ELD tip initiating rapid expansion. Nothing but separated jackets and one core were recovered so far, so it comes apart.

90gr TNTs have been performing very well on hogs and deer over the years though from Grendel.

For deer and hogs, one of the bullets to beat is the Cavity Back 105gr for a premium option. For cup and core, 120gr NBT, 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SST, and 123gr ELD-M have probably killed the most deer from 6.5 Grendel based on the game hunting surveys we did. They all exhibit controlled expansion, usually with pass-throughs or retention on the far-side hide. Barnes 100gr TTSX and 120gr TSX have also been used a lot for the premium monoliths.

 

[zeroz]

If you're making head shots and or avoiding hard bones its probably fine on deer and hogs depending on the size. Big hogs or 200lb bucks id probably want a nice quartering away shot or just bust the hog between the eye and the ear.

 

[LRRPF52]

Another great cup and core bullet people have had consistent DRT results from even out of pistols is the 129gr ABLR, which is a really soft, bonded bullet with 1300fps expansion threshold and a high BC/High SD.

Lots of momentum, fast, controlled expansion, deep penetration due to weight retention.

 

[Towhead]

DoubleNaughtSpy just posted video of shooting hogs with it and I think it’s as you guessed, frags a bit early and hogs ran off a bit. First-round hogs were DRT, but runners were hard to put down. Distances seemed pretty far though to try to hit runners.

For first-round on a deer broadside or quartering away, I would expect fast kills due to velocity. It will wreck the vitals pretty bad based on what is being seen from recovered fragments. It’s performing as it was designed to do with that hollow cavity up front and the ELD tip initiating rapid expansion. Nothing but separated jackets and one core were recovered so far, so it comes apart.

90gr TNTs have been performing very well on hogs and deer over the years though from Grendel.

For deer and hogs, one of the bullets to beat is the Cavity Back 105gr for a premium option. For cup and core, 120gr NBT, 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SST, and 123gr ELD-M have probably killed the most deer from 6.5 Grendel based on the game hunting surveys we did. They all exhibit controlled expansion, usually with pass-throughs or retention on the far-side hide. Barnes 100gr TTSX and 120gr TSX have also been used a lot for the premium monoliths.

Yeah, not even knowing what others are using, that 123 gr SST caught my eye, especially for deer. I thought the .510 G1 BC was a mistake at first since it is better than the 129 gr SST. What a great survey! is there a legend for the bullet abbreviations? I don't recognize some of them. Looks like the 123 gr A-MAX may having taken the silver medal.

 

[LRRPF52]

129gr SST BC is higher at .495 G1 per Bryan Litz analysis.

123gr SST BC is .462 G1. A-MAX was .468 when Litz did his studies on them. You can’t look at the 123gr SST and 129gr SST and conclude that the 123gr has a more streamlined BC:

When you actually shoot them using either the published or Litz BCs within hunting distances, you will not see any trajectory changes. I use .468 G1/.232 for ELD-M as well and get 1st-round hits at distance with it. I tested this years ago with 123gr A-MAX to 1000yds and the Litz data worked perfectly on the steel at 1000yds. I also used the .510 G1 data the first time I shot out to 1200yds with my 16” Grendel, and was just off the left edge of the TGT. I out-shot a bunch of dudes with 30-338s, 300 WM, and .308s because I don’t think they were using any well-informed trajectory holds or proper optics for that work.

 

[Towhead]

129gr SST BC is higher at .495 G1 per Bryan Litz analysis.

123gr SST BC is .462 G1. A-MAX was .468 when Litz did his studies on them. You can’t look at the 123gr SST and 129gr SST and conclude that the 123gr has a more streamlined BC:

When you actually shoot them using either the published or Litz BCs within hunting distances, you will not see any trajectory changes. I use .468 G1/.232 for ELD-M as well and get 1st-round hits at distance with it. I tested this years ago with 123gr A-MAX to 1000yds and the Litz data worked perfectly on the steel at 1000yds. I also used the .510 G1 data the first time I shot out to 1200yds with my 16” Grendel, and was just off the left edge of the TGT. I out-shot a bunch of dudes with 30-338s, 300 WM, and .308s because I don’t think they were using any well-informed trajectory holds or proper optics for that work.

Okay the .51 BC being wrong would certainly make more sense to me. Shooting out to 1200 yds with a 16" barrel is nuts! I've been meaning to buy one or two of Litz's books.

 

[LRRPF52]

Okay the .51 BC being wrong would certainly make more sense to me. Shooting out to 1200 yds with a 16" barrel is nuts! I've been meaning to buy one or two of Litz's books.

At the time, I had written-off Grendel as maybe a 600-800yd cartridge at-best, 600yds for my 16” barrel for certain. Then these guys came out to one of my shooting spots and were trying to hit a TGT at 1200yds, kicking up dust at the base of the hill at least 100 yards from where they intended to be.

I plugged in my dope into my program, and it said something like 14.4 mils if I recall. My elevation turret maxed out at 12 mils, so I used reticle hold in addition to maxing out. 1st-round almost connected, couldn’t believe it. I emptied the mag on-TGT using my observed impact point as my new aiming point.

I was mainly shooting .260 Rem for LR back then, but really started to look at what the Grendel could do in a new light.

Sierra BCs are under-stated as well for the 107gr SMK and 123gr SMK. 123gr SMK is a great bullet.

The 123gr to beat for BC though is the Fort Scott 123gr TUI. I have a box of factory ammo from them I need to shoot at distance. The shape is more like a pointed 140gr with long boat tail.

 

[zeroz]

I ditched the SST years ago when it came apart on two occasions, spattered lead all throughout elk front quarters and they had to be pitched. That said, that was the 180 SST out of an 06 at sub 300 yards. Maybe the Grendel is slow enough that the bullet would hold together better.

 

[LRRPF52]

I ditched the SST years ago when it came apart on two occasions, spattered lead all throughout elk front quarters and they had to be pitched. That said, that was the 180 SST out of an 06 at sub 300 yards. Maybe the Grendel is slow enough that the bullet would hold together better.

Moderate velocities with Grendel have that happy medium performance where the close range shots don’t totally destroy meat, and you still have expansion out to 400yds. It’s more like a 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Shönauer but with lighter average weight bullets.

 

[DHDeal]

I'm waiting on the Sierra 120 TGK to become available again. I saw them listed late last year (?) and went as far to add them to my cart on Sierra's website. I waited and thought on it and they were gone. They are a long SOB though.

I'm playing with the Sierra tipped BK now with 8208 and it isn't too bad. Not a suitable bullet for deer critters I understand but it kills steel DRT (until repaint). I've only shot them out of a brand new 16" Ultra Match barrel and not out of my 20" Proof so velocities aren't up there (obviously). I am still used to at least a 20"-24" barrel and seeing the velocities of a 16" is still a new experience.

 

[bmash]

Ammoseek is your friend…it showed 120TGK in stock at Grafs last week. I ordered and have my fingers crossed that they actually get here!

 

[Huckleberry75]

I have shot the factory 100gr ELD-VT ammo through the 17.6” Lilja barrel Grendel out to 1000yds, yes.

First shot was 700yds, easy connect on a large gong, went to 800yds, skipped 900yds and just went to the 1000yd gong to see where it was hitting. Adjusted elevation to impact the waterline so I could see how many mils for centered-up at 1k.

It was surprisingly-loud on-target. Winds were minimal at maybe 4-5mph if I recall. I was probably 12/12 at 1000yds with it on the gong. My 8yr-old boy was maybe 4/5, having never shot out to 1k before.

Someone did a pull-down of it and took all those measurements. ES was really tight from his measurements with the Garmin.

Seems like the intent of this load is for slaying yotes out to 500yds, since .223 Rem runs out of gas after 250-300yds generally. It also makes a fun target load for easy connecting on steel at distance.

What sort of velocity are you seeing from your 17.6" tube? Been contemplating trying this in my 18" monster bbl for thermal outings on porcine problems.

 

[DHDeal]

Ammoseek is your friend…it showed 120TGK in stock at Grafs last week. I ordered and have my fingers crossed that they actually get here!

Yes they did (Grafs)...

 

[LRRPF52]

What sort of velocity are you seeing from your 17.6" tube? Been contemplating trying this in my 18" monster bbl for thermal outings on porcine problems.

123gr A-MAX hand load on 31.2gr CFE223

2507
2492
2477
2496
2477

2490fps avg 64˚ F

Factory 120gr Scenar-L from PF

2505
2504
2453
2518
2498

2511fps avg

Factory Hornady 123gr SST

2451
2449
2473
2456

2457 avg

107gr SMK on 29.4gr 8208XBR
2626fps

94gr GMX Custom (cut down from 120gr GMX), 33.9gr CFE223, 2.261-2.275” COL
2749
2751
2741
2700

129gr ABLR on 30.7gr CFE223
2397
2400
2410
2393
2425

90gr Federal TNT Box ammo
2882
2886
2875
2878
2883

2900
2922
2903
2893
2904

2893fps (15ft from muzzle)

120gr Federal OTM box ammo
2441
2494
2492
2506
2491

2484fps avg

123gr American Gunner Hornady 200rd box ammo
2441fps avg

 

[Huckleberry75]

123gr A-MAX hand load on 31.2gr CFE223

2507
2492
2477
2496
2477

2490fps avg 64˚ F

Factory 120gr Scenar-L from PF

2505
2504
2453
2518
2498

2511fps avg

Factory Hornady 123gr SST

2451
2449
2473
2456

2457 avg

107gr SMK on 29.4gr 8208XBR
2626fps

94gr GMX Custom (cut down from 120gr GMX), 33.9gr CFE223, 2.261-2.275” COL
2749
2751
2741
2700

129gr ABLR on 30.7gr CFE223
2397
2400
2410
2393
2425

90gr Federal TNT Box ammo
2882
2886
2875
2878
2883

2900
2922
2903
2893
2904

2893fps (15ft from muzzle)

120gr Federal OTM box ammo
2441
2494
2492
2506
2491

2484fps avg

123gr American Gunner Hornady 200rd box ammo
2441fps avg

Oh my. I should have been more specific. I was asking about the Hornady 100gn eld-vt in particular

 

[stello1001]

Has anybody here had success with BLC2?

I know there are much better powders. I would have preferred 8208xbr, h4895, or even ARCOMP but this is what I have been able to find. Store also has some h335 but from my limited research, that's good for lighter weight stuff around 100 grains or less.

 

[LRRPF52]

Oh my. I should have been more specific. I was asking about the Hornady 100gn eld-vt in particular

I didn’t chrono it, so I used the box 2730fps from a 24”, plugged it into a Grendel internal ballistics engine, and got 2598fps for my 17.6”.

I used that and plugged it into my program, 1st-round connect at 700yds, dialed to 800yds, connect, went to 1000yds where we finished out water-lining it. Initial drop prediction for 1000yds was low and right on the target, so I adjusted up to centerline with the group, which ended up being 10.8 mils. It was pretty cold at about 20˚F if I remember correctly.

Truing it with Hornady’s program to 10.8 mils at 1000yds in the conditions I was in, it’s showing a mv of 2590fps from the 17.6” barrel. I just looked at 6mm ARC in that weight and this is basically duplicating or exceeding it. If you shot the 103gr ELD-X 6mm from ARC from an 18” at 2575fps, it has more drop and drift than what I’m seeing from the 100gr ELD-VT 6.5mm at 2590fps. You have to go to the 110gr A-TIP to get below the drift it seems. 108gr ELD-M didn’t do it when I ran it through the Doppler program.

Weird. So this 100gr ELD-VT is like 6mm ARC performance without needing to make the switch. I just double-checked that I entered in all the same variables for the conditions, and I’m using real-world drop and impact data that I recorded from the 17.6” Grendel shooting factory Hornady 100gr ELD-VT.

 

[LRRPF52]

Has anybody here had success with BLC2?

I know there are much better powders. I would have preferred 8208xbr, h4895, or even ARCOMP but this is what I have been able to find. Store also has some h335 but from my limited research, that's good for lighter weight stuff around 100 grains or less.

BL-C(2) is one of the main initial powders used for 6.5 Grendel load development by Alexander Arms, with lots of published data for it from AA, Hodgdon’s, and Hornady dating back over the better part of the last 20 years.

AA2520 and BL-C(2) were some of the go-to powders for 120-123gr, as was W748. I think CFE223 really does everything those powders were meant to do and more when it comes to velocity and metering well, and being easy to find.

 

[st1650]

Any opinions on the Barnes Tac-tx 115 ?

 

[Snuby642]

Something we can get some velocity from that expands.

Please

 

[LRRPF52]

Something we can get some velocity from that expands.

Please

80gr Hammer Hunter Tipped
85gr Maker TREX
95gr Maker REX
100gr NBT
100gr ELD-VT
105gr Cavity Back MKZ

 

[Modoc]

80gr Hammer Hunter Tipped
85gr Maker TREX
95gr Maker REX
100gr NBT
100gr ELD-VT
105gr Cavity Back MKZ

Also the 80gr Hammer Hunter and the 99gr Hammer Hunter

 

[Towhead]

Any opinions on the Barnes Tac-tx 115 ?

I would think that the moderate velocities of the Grendel cartridge are not supportive of the performance of monolithic bullets (unless they are designed to open at lower speeds like the LRX), but I do not have personal experience with them to say for sure. Maybe others could speak to the success of Barnes bullets, Hornady's CX/GMX, or Nosler's E-Tips? I think it would be better to go with lead core expansion or fragmentation rounds and as big as possible. I think the 123 SSTs are very popular (although the published BC on that one is likely much too high).

According to the Barnes load data, the muzzle velocity of a 115 TAC-TX from a 24" barrel tops out at about 2600-2650 fps with CFE223. This is about the impact velocity you want from expanding copper monos to perform well. You could use this for hunting inside of 100 yds and still hit with at least 1500 ft-lbs with a 2400 fps impact velocity (the lower speed limit for good terminal performance with monos according to many).

The 100 TTSX might be a better option, because this can be sent out of the same barrel at nearly 2900 fps. This would maintain 2400+ fps past 150 yds and still carry 1300 ft-lbs on target. Keep in mind that monos often punch above their weight by 10 to 20 grains.

 

[st1650]

I guess I’ll stay with 100 VT and 123 Eldm for factory offerings.

 

[hlee]

Factory SST loads have been hot garbage from my grendel(s), but 123 ELD-Ms put meat in the freezer every time.

 

[BAMAboy18]

Factory SST loads have been hot garbage from my grendel(s), but 123 ELD-Ms put meat in the freezer every time.

That's so disappointing to hear. I think 150 SSTs out of my 308 are the most impressive rounds I've ever hunted with, I've never had a deer take one step, they just roll over with their legs sticking up in the air. I built both a 6.5 & 6 ARC in hopes of using them to start my grandsons hunting. Not much choice in 6arc, but I've got several different 6.5 ammo flavors. And I just ordered some 100g solid copper to try as well.

 

[bobke]

Have to add my experience with 123SST’s as a component, not as factory ammo. With my preferred AR Comp load in an 18” JP barrel and a 3x or 5x prism-not the ideal tool for shooting groups-am consistently between .8-1.0” at 100yds. Lots of history on the bullet’s effectiveness on game, though it seems some guns shoot ‘em, and some don’t. This JP likes them.

 

[st1650]

Any benefits loading at 2.32in vs the usual commercial 2.25 for example in the 123 Eld-M ?

 

[bobke]

2.32 OAL only applicable in a bolt gun with a chamber that will accept it, or as a single fed round in an AR, with same proviso regarding chamber. Sure, you can get more powder capacity, though you wouldn’t want to ignore distance to lands and resultant pressure, as well as how that pressure might affect your cases and primer pockets. There’s some trial/error in front of you, if you were to proceed with testing.

 

[bobke]

Not absolutely positive about real OAL max-they say 2.36”-but there are modified PRI magazines that will accept longer than std mag length of 2.28 that you can run in ASC/C Products mags. You still need to address distance to lands, regardless, especially with some chambers and tangent ogive bullets. My 20” Proof hits lands with 120 Scenar L’s at around 2.25, so I load at 2.225 with excellent accuracy.

10 Round PRI Modified Magazine 6.8 SPC

COPPER BULLETS COPPER PROJECTILES NONLEAD ALL COPPER SOLID COPPER HUNTING TARGET

www.cavitybackbullets.com

 

[BAMAboy18]

Not absolutely positive about real OAL max-they say 2.36”-but there are modified PRI magazines that will accept longer than std mag length of 2.28 that you can run in ASC/C Products mags. You still need to address distance to lands, regardless, especially with some chambers and tangent ogive bullets. My 20” Proof hits lands with 120 Scenar L’s at around 2.25, so I load at 2.225 with excellent accuracy.

10 Round PRI Modified Magazine 6.8 SPC

COPPER BULLETS COPPER PROJECTILES NONLEAD ALL COPPER SOLID COPPER HUNTING TARGET

www.cavitybackbullets.com

Those look easy enough to reproduce, especially with milling machine access!

 

[Big Grizz]

Those look easy enough to reproduce, especially with milling machine access!

I got one PRI mad for my 24” 264 LBC. As I wanted to load my 130 RDF’s out as long as possible. A couple of things to note. First the magwell needed a little work. If you loaded the bullets to the internal face of the mag well , the bullet tips would catch on the barrel extension as it protruded 5 or 10 thousandths into the mag well. So filed that down and then polished the feed ramps to take off any burs. This allowed a max COAL of 2.372 approximately. So for feeding reliability 2.36.

Secondly the PRI mag is for a 6.8 SPC and has this follower. Unfortunately when you shoot las round the bolt catch would not engage. The problem was the follower was not ramped at rear. That is the follower was to high and the 6.5 bolt would hit the follower forcing it down just enough so pressure was taken off the bolt catch allowing the BCG to close. Easy enough pulled follower and filed a 30 degree chamfer about 1/4” long on the rear of the follower. Functions flawlessly now, and catches bolt on last round. The RDF’s hit lands a 2.375 in the 264 LBC chamber of this rifle .

 

[st1650]

So I'm considering handloading for a 12in barrel.
The 2 bullets I'm thinking are the 120 Speer GD and the 129 ABLR. I'm kind of leaning toward the 120 GD since in my experience they're usually very accurate and easy to tune and good on game when they're sent at the proper speed. I don't plan to shoot any further than 200 yards so the slightly lower BC and higher expansion threshold (1600 vs 1300) doesn't really matter. They're also half the price of the ABLR.
I'm thinking N540 but almost no-one uses it for some reason (availability ?) even though it does look like a perfect match on QL (50K PSI, good velocity, 100% Case fill and 95% burn rate out of 12in)
XBR seems like the popular choice which might not be a bad idea since it burns a little bit faster so might be a bit better out of a short barrel.
Seems like 28.0 is the load for XBR with the 120 GD.

 

[Huckleberry75]

I run the 129ablr in my 12.5" with H4895 and get ~2220fps. That equates to 1683fps at 400yds and 811#ke according to shooter ballistic app.

 

[stello1001]

So I'm considering handloading for a 12in barrel.
The 2 bullets I'm thinking are the 120 Speer GD and the 129 ABLR. I'm kind of leaning toward the 120 GD since in my experience they're usually very accurate and easy to tune and good on game when they're sent at the proper speed. I don't plan to shoot any further than 200 yards so the slightly lower BC and higher expansion threshold (1600 vs 1300) doesn't really matter. They're also half the price of the ABLR.
I'm thinking N540 but almost no-one uses it for some reason (availability ?) even though it does look like a perfect match on QL (50K PSI, good velocity, 100% Case fill and 95% burn rate out of 12in)
XBR seems like the popular choice which might not be a bad idea since it burns a little bit faster so might be a bit better out of a short barrel.
Seems like 28.0 is the load for XBR with the 120 GD.

I don't there's any 129 ABLRs anywhere, much less gold dots. Are you sure you can get them? There's a lot of scam sites with rainbow unicorn powders, bullets, etc.

 

[st1650]

I don't there's any 129 ABLRs anywhere, much less gold dots. Are you sure you can get them? There's a lot of scam sites with rainbow unicorn powders, bullets, etc

Nope they’re real. Old stock at my buddies LGS

 

[stello1001]

Nope they’re real. Old stock at my buddies LGS

Does that LGS sell & ship?