6.5x ???? upper

[Bevan]

I want a 6.5 cartridge that I can use my current 5.56 bolt/mags with because it is literally 100% totally impossible to get grendel mags/bolt here in the middle of the pacific ocean.


Anyone used a 6.5x45/6.5TCU/6.5MPC style wildcat? any input? how hard is it to form brass? Same as 6x45 where you just run it through a sizing die and BAM done? Performance from a 14.5" or 16" barrel?

I want to get the 123gr amax doing 2200+ fps from 14.5-16" for hunting purposes

 

[Bevan]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

How the fuck do you fit a 123gr amax in the mag of an AR anyway, regardless of the case you use?

6x45? thoughts? I want to be able to kill things out to ~400-500 meters and the 6.5 seems the best option to do that

 

[kvwpwr]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Why not use a 6mm?

 

[Bevan]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Thinking of 6x45 but I'm not sure if it's really that much better than my current 1:7 .223 using 77gr to make the change worth it

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

6.5 MUTT - Wildcat I came up with for use in an AR. Pushes 120s in the 2200s, 100s in the 2400s, and 85s to mid-upper 2600s via a 16" AR. Standard bolt and magazine. I've shot 120 Berger Match BT, 120/100 Nosler BT, and 87 Berger/85 Sierras. No reason a 123 A-max wouldn't work well.

I'll try to get some pictures of cartridge beside 223 and in a 223 AR-15 magazine.

Was banging 1/2 size IPSC steel at 650 yards with this round out of 16" AR pretty reliably.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 MUTT - Wildcat I came up with for use in an AR. Pushes 120s in the 2200s, 100s in the 2400s, and 85s to mid-upper 2600s via a 16" AR. Standard bolt and magazine. I've shot 120 Berger Match BT, 120/100 Nosler BT, and 87 Berger/85 Sierras. No reason a 123 A-max wouldn't work well.

I'll try to get some pictures of cartridge beside 223 and in a 223 AR-15 magazine.

Was banging 1/2 size IPSC steel at 650 yards with this round out of 16" AR pretty reliably. </div></div>
I'm interested.

 

[338RUM runner]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

What part of NZ are you from. I was in Hamilton,NZ in the late 50's for 4 years and i want to go back. Why can't you get a bolt or mag shipped there?

 

[Bevan]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Down South, Dunedin area

Much hassle getting anything AR out of the USA or into NZ.


I could spend a lot of time and money trying to get permits etc and then have them declined by the state dept.

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

6.5 MUTT with 85 gr Sierra HP in AR-15 mag

6.5 MUTT with 85 gr Sierra HP beside M193

6.5 MUTT with 120 VLD beside M193

6.5 MUTT with 120 VLD in Seekins Precision 223 magazine

120 A-max at AR mag length

120 VLD group at 100. Operator error, should all be together and I can't blame rifle or ammo for that.

I've got an AR and a bolt rifle in this caliber. Did bolt rifle first to prove out concept, it worked pretty well so I did an AR. Bolt rifle is pushing the 120 VLDs at 2400 fps, 16" AR is pushing 120 SMK/Bergers/Nosler BT at 2250. I haven't tried the 120/123 A-max but would expect about the same velocity.

Bolt rifle will do 0.5 MOA, current AR is solid 0.75 MOA rifle. I've got some higher quality barrels in the works for the AR, be interesting to see if there is any difference in accuracy.

 

[Bevan]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Blown-out fireball case, or??

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Fireball was too short.

Can make 6.5 MUTT from 223 or 204 brass.

1.540" long case, original design was for a 120 Berger Match BT boattail/bearing junction to be right at neck/shoulder junction. Pretty close with the 120 A-mx also, I'll have to get some 123 A-max to see where the BT/BJ junction is when seated at mag length.

 

[vizsla3]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

great work

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

that 6.5 MUTT is awesome, any vids of you shooting it??

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

I don't have any video, will see if I can get some next range session.

 

[SIG383]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

I'm interested in this caliber too.

 

[packratt]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

How would you say recoil compares to .223, .300BO, and 6.5 Grendel?

Could a barrel chambered for 6.5 Mutt be rechambered for 6.5 Grendel?

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Who did the smithing for the AR barrel and 6.5 MUTT barrel extension?

 

[Explorer]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Mutt looks great. I am just starting to work with a 7.62x40WT upper...

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

BHW did first AR bbl, Brux did the last two AR 6.5 MUTT barrels. IIRC, barrel extensions were DPMS.

RWS did the bolt rifle.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BHW did first AR bbl, Brux did the last two AR 6.5 MUTT barrels. IIRC, barrel extensions were DPMS.

RWS did the bolt rifle. </div></div>
sorry for the ignorance, but who is BHW?

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

I've got a 300 MUTT also, waiting on dies to getting rolling on load development.

Brux did the 300 MUTT barrels, I've got a 16" for rifle and a 10.5" pistol to develop loads with.

 

[FCS]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

Black Hole Weaponry - at the time I wanted to do an AR barrel, they were the quickest.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 6.5x ???? upper

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black Hole Weaponry - at the time I wanted to do an AR barrel, they were the quickest. </div></div>
yep, got it. Thanks!

 

[MSTN]

Very interesting!

 

[AKONA]

Interesting that you are doing this.
I took a different direction and instead of sacrificing case space I modified the magazines.
I have a 6.5TCU among others that I am running center stack at VLD length for the AR15 platform.
It is quite an interesting caliber because there is a gap between the 90-100gr and the 123 that is not really
filled yet. I think we are missing a couple of nice 105-110gr bullets but the manufactures have not seen this yet.

Here is the TCU (long) saga with the chamber reamed to take the best bullets out there. I am chopping off a test
barrel starting long and then seeing what the different powder combinations do.

Initially the 123gr have been great performers aproaching 2600fps at max and the nice 125gr partition at 2540fps avg.

Here is an assortment of the 6.5 saga...

 

[bogeybrown]

THIS is one of those seemingly innocuous threads that reminds me why I continue to read through the forum. Amidst the titty pictures and flame wars, there are serious people doing some really cool stuff with new caliber development and pushing out on their own and doing interesting "experiments".
I can't hope to understand all of it, but THIS is good stuff!! Thanks gents.

 

[AKONA]

THIS is one of those seemingly innocuous threads that reminds me why I continue to read through the forum. Amidst the titty pictures and flame wars, there are serious people doing some really cool stuff with new caliber development and pushing out on their own and doing interesting "experiments".
I can't hope to understand all of it, but THIS is good stuff!! Thanks gents.

Thanks for the kind works. I like the work of so many people here and that is why I decided to join this forum. I think when we do new projects we approach with a sense of curiosity but with a totally open and collaborative approach and comments like yours are fuel for the developers and empowers folks to keep moving forward. So in the end is all good, you help me, I help you and we all learn in the process.

The funny thing the .223Rem itself is misunderstood. Also what the little case can do is also misunderstood. It does't take that much testing and observation that it can easily provide for several no nonsense caliber options
some inherently accurate like the parent and all fun to shoot an useful for for many applications.

...the little case that could...

 

[FCS]

Interesting that you are doing this.
I took a different direction and instead of sacrificing case space I modified the magazines.
I have a 6.5TCU among others that I am running center stack at VLD length for the AR15 platform.
It is quite an interesting caliber because there is a gap between the 90-100gr and the 123 that is not really
filled yet. I think we are missing a couple of nice 105-110gr bullets but the manufactures have not seen this yet.

Here is the TCU (long) saga with the chamber reamed to take the best bullets out there. I am chopping off a test
barrel starting long and then seeing what the different powder combinations do.

Initially the 123gr have been great performers aproaching 2600fps at max and the nice 125gr partition at 2540fps avg.

Here is an assortment of the 6.5 saga...

Yes, I did give up a bit of case capacity and velocity but goal was to get as much as I could from standard magazine. Offer an upper in 6.5 that would allow guys to swap out upper and be legal for shooting deer with AR in states that require 6mm or larger. LR / VLD mags were not readily available so went with "most commonly" available magazine that most every AR shooter would have. Cartridge / chamber was optimized for 120 SMK / Berger Match BT at standard AR mag length, needs slightly less freebore if you wanted to run 95 V-max.
100 Berger Match BT was an absolute sweetheart of a bullet for the 6.5 MUTT but was discontinued. I'd love to see an 85-90 gr TSX, would be just about perfect as chamber is currently configured. I've got some 100 Amax to try also but gut feeling is that chamber has a bit too much freebore for ogive profile on the Amax.

Hope to have some pictures of how 100 / 120 Nosler BT works on deer and hogs in fairly near future.
I'll also try to get some video of 6.5 MUTT in action next time I get to range.

I may need to make up a LR / VLD magazine and see how much I can gain in performance from MUTT. Liking the look of the 6.5 TCU also....might have to do an AR in TCU for grins n giggles.

 

[AKONA]

Yes, I did give up a bit of case capacity and velocity but goal was to get as much as I could from standard magazine. Offer an upper in 6.5 that would allow guys to swap out upper and be legal for shooting deer with AR in states that require 6mm or larger. LR / VLD mags were not readily available so went with "most commonly" available magazine that most every AR shooter would have. Cartridge / chamber was optimized for 120 SMK / Berger Match BT at standard AR mag length, needs slightly less freebore if you wanted to run 95 V-max.
100 Berger Match BT was an absolute sweetheart of a bullet for the 6.5 MUTT but was discontinued. I'd love to see an 85-90 gr TSX, would be just about perfect as chamber is currently configured. I've got some 100 Amax to try also but gut feeling is that chamber has a bit too much freebore for ogive profile on the Amax.

Hope to have some pictures of how 100 / 120 Nosler BT works on deer and hogs in fairly near future.
I'll also try to get some video of 6.5 MUTT in action next time I get to range.

I may need to make up a LR / VLD magazine and see how much I can gain in performance from MUTT. Liking the look of the 6.5 TCU also....might have to do an AR in TCU for grins n giggles.

Nice round indeed! You should be able to run 100gr amax at very nice speeds. What powders? AA1680 perhaps? We will have to get one of those a try.

No matter what variant I think the 6.5 case must be limited to 42mm for any wildcat to fit into a regular magazine and in this case the front ribs must be cut or rebated.
But then it offers amazing possibilities like most wildcats. Who is doing your reamers and dies? I wanted to get one custom for a new 6.8 version but the wait times are quite long.
I guess I could try doing a reamer myself but I don't think it is worthy.

Here some other view including the super long 140gr lapua (or might be sierra I forgot). These start slow (2350-2375fps) but they fly very well.
At the right the amazing 6.5BR. The BR got to be one of the most efficient cases ever devised. 123gr Amax/scenar 2750fps from a 20" krieger upper. It can be push a bit harder hot for hunting but the amazing lapua cases can take the heat.