Gunsmithing 6mm-284 remix. . .

[LRI]

Here's the latest. A L/H Remmy 700 with a PTG bolt. Just finished TIG'n the handle (back side) and sweatin some silver up front. (gotta do that in that order otherwise you have a big MESS)

Primary extraction is good, Weld has been turned/filed down to where it almost looks like one piece on the backside. Still have some file work to do on the handle to get it all nice n perty. Yes, sometimes even I have to use a file! (kinda like it-almost

) Ordered this one with an M-16 extractor because I loath Sako's in Remingtons. Going to be doing some bling on the bolt as well. Helical flutes or some fancy engraving? Still debating. I'm thinking some tribal flames done radially would be a cool alternative. Have to see. This particular customer gives me a long leash to play on so we'll see what happens.

Last, I ordered the bolt with the smallest hole David will put in it. This way I could fit the striker myself. .076" ended up working really well for the factory pin. Would rather of used one of my set ups, but no biggy.

OLD BOLT pics:

This bugger has seen a hard life. Owner took it to "someone" who attempted to flute and skeletonize the bolt. Experience is never cheap and unfortunately there wasn't much I could do with it.

So, the new bolt arrived last week and were givin it hell. This one gets a new stock too.

More to come.

 

[300sniper]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
OLD BOLT pics:

This bugger has seen a hard life. Owner took it to "someone" who attempted to flute and skeletonize the bolt. Experience is never cheap and unfortunately there wasn't much I could do with it.

</div></div>


ouch!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Been asked how I do this so I'll share it.

1st: Sterilize the bolt of any grease.
2nd: repeat on the handle.

Then turn a 45* chamfer on the back of the bolt's OD at the rear face. Be careful not to remove the notch for the cocking piece when out of battery.

Install the bolt body into the action and rotate into battery keeping a watchful eye on the cam relationship with the trigger sear. It needs to be right. Common sense here. If your too far it won't work, if your not far enough, the bolt will bounce when you drop the striker.

I use the action as my "jig" to clock the handle. In most cases I need to file on the handle in order to get it to even go in. the raw castings from Brownells need work before they will function.

Once I have it in place I use a guard screw that I dabbed with brass on the tip to hold the bolt in the right location. Can't move now and the brass avoids eating a ring on the bolt's outside arc.

I fold .001" shim stock (starret) in half and sandwich it between bolt body and handle. Then it's creative use of needle nose pliers to hold everything while I zap it quick with the TIG torch. Just need it to sit still for the moment.

Now that it won't move on its own I do a "real" tac weld.

remove bolt from action and pull the shim stock away from where you'll be welding. Don't pull it completely out though.

Now zap your bolt with a nice little bead. I use SS rod as the cast handles tend to be a bit dirty. The ss rod will fill better if it starts to spit at you.

Let it cool, don't go "Star Trek" on the handle. Little stitch welds to mitigate heat/warpage/distortion of the handle and bolt body.

Now pull the the shim stock. The .002" gap gives the silver solder some place to flow into. I use the blue flux stuff as it's a touch stronger. Higher melting point too so you gotta be careful. Don't overcook it and ruin the heat treat on the cocking cam surface. I made an aluminum filler plug for the back of the bolt to act as a heat sink. Also makes for an easy way to hold onto the thing in a bench vise without marking up the bolt body. Lighting a couple shop rags on fire and stinking the place up taught me that lesson. . .

Dull cherry red, drizzle it in, then allow to slowly air cool.

Blast it off, and get to the files. Easy part is over, now the work starts.

Before you weld this thing you gotta make sure your primary extraction is properly timed. otherwise you have a big ol mess!

Assuming your fillet was cut deep enough your weld can be safely faced off to a clean machined finish.

And that is how I zap a bolt together.

Good luck.

C


-one more thing.

The weld will likely want to pull the handle away from the bolt body making the shim stock not really needed. I still use it. Just manage your heat and you'll be fine. SS ROD! (unless your blueing of course, then you'll need to just fight your way through it using regular carbon steel rod)

 

[Straight Shooter]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I really admire your work. My Q for the day is why not just go ahead and tig whole thing and skip the solder?

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Chad welded my PTG bolt together. No problems so far and I beat the ever living hell out of my rifle too. I am beginning to think that it's a must do for ultimate reliability on a 700 bolt.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

The no chit answer on the TIG thing is my skills as a welder only go so far. I don't do it enough to get "reeeaaalllly" good at it.

So, I stitch the back side that faces the shroud and solder the rest. If it were me trying to solve this "problem" I'd go after it another way: I'd make the entire bolt from a single piece of bar stock and be done with it. Then the question is answered before it's ever even asked.

Hope that helped.


Now, onto whackin off the knob and puttin some wrinkles on it for a new "shifter".


Instead of a lathe, I'm using the mill to knock the existing knob down to a simple cylinder that I can machine threads on. In a CNC I use what's called "thread milling" or (big words) "Circular interpolation." (say that with a mouth full of crackers once!) This is the same process essentially that I use for tuning up an action. The part of this that's advantageous from a purist standpoint is how a CNC mill works. With a conventional lathe the accuracy of the bore is dependent upon the lack of runout in the spindle and the spindle bearings. That's the ultimate governing factor. With a CNC mill it's a bit different. The encoders and servos that track and move the work surface are in constant communication with each other. The more modern machines have 16,000,000 bit encoders. That means it divides a circle into 16 million individual segments. (draw that once!) Just using the good sense were born with its pretty easy to understand that the machine is verifying its position every step of the way. Backlash and whatnot are compensated for also. It makes for a very, very accurate arc movement. Tool deflection and material shifts (stress relieving) are still things the machinist has to "voodoo" his way through, but that's normal on any machine operation.

What I'm saying is it makes for a really nice round, straight cylinder (or) bore that gets threaded.

Essentially the tool just spins as the table oscillates in an arc while the Z axis feeds in a negative (down) direction. Wala, Houston, we have "wrinkles." Doing it this way makes the set up really quick/simple and I can do things with a thread mill that can't be done on a lathe. -least I haven't figured out how yet anyway.

So, here's the pics:

 

[bohem]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Overall, that's a very nice summary and I don't mean this as a slight towards what Chad has posted, but I'd like to address 1 piece of information.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more modern machines have 16,000,000 bit encoders. That means it divides a circle into 16 million individual segments. </div></div>

This isn't quite correct, they're 24 bit encoders which means that it cuts the circle into 2^24 = 16,777,216 pieces (without using quadrature)

A 16 million bit encoder would give you 2^16,000,000 pieces which is considered "out of bounds" when you try to type it into any of the fancy CAS programs that I have at my disposal, which cost approximately the same as Chad's milling machine does.

There's further discussion as to how closely any specific machine can repeat an interpolated circle which is dependent upon a multitude of conditions (machine ways, ball screw setup, bearing type, support, temperature, etc) but suffice it to say that an interpolated thread on a bolt hand will be far more than "close enough" when it's all done.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Overall, that's a very nice summary and I don't mean this as a slight towards what Chad has posted, but I'd like to address 1 piece of information.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C.Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more modern machines have 16,000,000 bit encoders. That means it divides a circle into 16 million individual segments. </div></div>

This isn't quite correct, they're 24 bit encoders which means that it cuts the circle into 2^24 = 16,777,216 pieces (without using quadrature)

A 16 million bit encoder would give you 2^16,000,000 pieces which is considered "out of bounds" when you try to type it into any of the fancy CAS programs that I have at my disposal, which cost approximately the same as Chad's milling machine does.

There's further discussion as to how closely any specific machine can repeat an interpolated circle which is dependent upon a multitude of conditions (machine ways, ball screw setup, bearing type, support, temperature, etc) but suffice it to say that an interpolated thread on a bolt hand will be far more than "close enough" when it's all done. </div></div>


I love learning stuff.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[bohem]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Glad I could help for once in your threads, keep up the nice work. I really enjoy reading (and drooling) through them.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Thought a little propaganda would look cool on the bottom of this.

I made the bolt knob from 4140 and silver soldered it onto the handle. Was able to flow the solder well enough so that it acts like a fillet from knob to handle. This action gets coated so it'll all be hidden once were done.

The factory fire control just felt like crap on this thing so I added one of mine. Enclosed shroud, new cocking piece, new striker and striker spring. I have the springs made from a high silicon wire (basically the same stuff they make high rpm valve springs from). Sure makes a for a nice "snap" when the trigger's pulled. The fire control converts a Remmy to a cock on open only action. Makes closing the bolt more fluid like a high dollar custom action. Lipstick n pigs. . .

Next I'll be engraving the cartridge on the barrel. Customer asked for something a little different than what I typically do. Fun stuff!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Barrel scribbles all done. A bit different from the norm, but presentable I think.

 

[bohem]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Are you using the factory recoil lug?

I like the engraving on the bolt knob base, very nice.

 

[gamma]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Cheers Chad, thats good advice on the TIG welding. Now I just need to brave it a little. Im pretty much on top of how you do it but the gaurd screw, where does that come in and whats that attached to. Im presuming its some kind of jig with a gaurd screw that clamps onto the bolt body. Can you show a pic of this.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Mikki,

A front guard screw with a dab of brazing rod on it simply holds the bolt body still when in the action. I'm essentially using the action as the jig/fixture- just long enought to get a little "zap" on the bolt handle/body so that the clock position is established. Then I pull it and do the "real" welding on the bench with the bolt sandwiched between a pair of old V blocks that I have.

Drop the bolt in the receiver, clock it where you think it should be, and then jam the screw against the bottom lug to ensure it doesn't rotate accidentally while fiddling with the handle.


I did not barrel this gun. The cst stated it shot really well. My job is to make it more "presentable" looking. Restocking in an A-5, a little paint, plating, and the new bolt. Like the title says, "remix."

If I were building this as a "do over" I'd put one of my lugs in.

C

 

[bohem]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I did not barrel this gun. The cst stated it shot really well. My job is to make it more "presentable" looking. Restocking in an A-5, a little paint, plating, and the new bolt. Like the title says, "remix."

If I were building this as a "do over" I'd put one of my lugs in.

C </div></div>

That makes a lot more sense, I remember you being very particular about the recoil lugs especially. Thanks for addressing my question.

 

[colchester]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Quote
Install the bolt body into the action and rotate into battery keeping a watchful eye on the cam relationship with the trigger sear. It needs to be right. Common sense here. If your too far it won't work, if your not far enough, the bolt will bounce when you drop the striker.

Chad would it possible to explain what your looking for here? Do you put the firing pin assembly in the bolt body when you check this?

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

The helical cam at the back of the bolt has to be in the right clock position. Essentially the locking lugs should be vertical and the cam's "root" (bottom) needs to be timed up with the sear of the trigger. Rotate too far and it'll cause bolt bounce. Don't go far enough and the cocking piece will rub on the side and make lock time very lethargic. It'll also screw with the timing of the primary extraction as your going to stick the handle in the wrong spot.

Just play with it and take a step back to look at what's really going on.

Good luck.

C

 

[gamma]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Im with you now chad, I have it all figured out now.

 

[CS223]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Just to add a little more to the knowledge base, when I asked Stan Ware of SGR rifles how he went about getting the bolt handle timed & tacked, he said that he uses a pair of needle nose Vise Grips that he modified for the task, he holds the bolt handle to the body and tweaks things, re-clamping as necessary to get everything right.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

God bless the vise grip!

 

[jbell]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I realy like your logo , the Thrush exhaust woodpecker , very cool. I realy enjoy your post of your work, thank you.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Christmas is over. BACK TO WORK!


Inletting begins this morning.

Done there, now onto the prep work. More to come. . .

 

[jetmd]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Thanks again for another enjoyable thread with excellent pictures and verbage!

I am sure a lot of Hide members also enjoy it, but just don't take the time to post.

Your time and effort are appreciated!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Here she is getting prepped and cookin.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Great work! I love seeing the technical process behind the builds you do, very professional.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now zap your bolt with a nice little bead. I use SS rod as the cast handles tend to be a bit dirty. The ss rod will fill better if it starts to spit at you.</div></div>

I've found this as well, the high nickel content of the SS filler rod really tames down the puddle and makes for a nice weld on these Remmy handles.

-matt

 

[Geno C.]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

My brother in law, Dave, sent you the pieces to make a 300wsm a few weeks ago. I'll have to have him ask you to take progress pictures like these of his build for good conversation!

Looks great! I might have to sent you pieces for my next one too

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Balthasar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My brother in law, Dave, sent you the pieces to make a 300wsm a few weeks ago. I'll have to have him ask you to take progress pictures like these of his build for good conversation!

Looks great! I might have to sent you pieces for my next one too

</div></div>


All of my customers get emails/photos of their jobs as they are built. Just part of the service. When completed a CD/buildsheet is included showing all the work as it progresses along.

The "build threads" seem to be pretty popular so I'll likely include that as well.

Thanks for the comments. I'm actually starting on his today in fact. Reamer showed up late last week.

C

 

[Geno C.]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

That is a great thing to offer. I know it may take a little longer but that is awesome. He called me a few minutes ago and said you had called, that is customer service for sure!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Now that the bedding and top half stuff is completed, its onto the bottom side.

This one gets an H/S detachable magazine setup. In a perfect world the castings would be symmetrical and consistent. Experience has taught me otherwise so I map each one out individually. A little extra work but required if it want it to fit the stock well.

Setup of the stock in my fixture. I made this to quickly qualify and locate a stock in preparation of the work on the bottom side. Makes things go much faster and I only have to set it up once. Everything I do with this thing qualifies off the rear guard screw hole.

Here's the part on the rock getting probed. Radius gauges make it pretty simple to determine what the corners are doing. This particular one isn't correct, just showing the use for those unfamiliar with this kind of stuff.

And finally we get a picture in the computer so I can generate a 3 axis tool path.

 

[John L]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Chad,
I see you have become a sponsor here, good on you. I will try to get those pictures out to you soon. Getting the in laws out of my house this weekend Woo Hoooooo. I have to see what kind of weord stuuf I can talk Dawn into now that there is no chance of a "walk in" by her folks.

John

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Hoppes #9 and a rubber chicken. . .

Erotic is a feather.

Kinky involves the whole chicken.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Progressing along now.

Inlet is mostly finished now. H/S detachable magazine floor metals are cast from SS. This makes them a bit challenging at times because the features on the profile aren't symmetrical. Not as much as I'd like anyway.

Back at Nesika I had an optical comparator with some really cool software that'd allow me to "ding" out a part like this and generate a tool path from it. That's 15K I don't have right now to spend. Soooo the radius gauges and calipers will have to do.

There's a few spots that will require attention. The radius's aren't quite matching up in a few of the corners. The nose of the piece isn't symmetrical either. You can see the radius on the L side doesn't match the one on the right side. (grrrrrr!)

There will have to be a little body work on this one. Luckily I was able to get it to run nice and flat on the pillars. Won't have to resort to bedding it. (I hate doing that as they always seem to look like crap afterward no matter what I do)

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Here's the bedding. I'm pleased.

 

[KYS]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Love your build threads!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Well now I went and done it!

I'm working on the setup for fluting this bolt. Luckily I haven't cut anything yet so nothing's ruined, but I'm faced with a pickle.

The M-16 extractor cut intersects with one of my tool paths. I'm trying to sort out the exact rotary position and it's being a chit!

Short of modeling the whole damn bolt in CAD I don't know exactly how to go about figuring this out.

Life's little challenges.

I'll geter yet!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I got it and I LIKE IT.

Persistence pays off occasionally.


I'm whittlin as we speak!

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

 

[Cinch]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I'm liking the bolt, Chad! Very nice!

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Yes very nice. The more I see of your builds the more I think I might have to make the hour trip and come over that way and have you do some work to a couple of my guns. Nice to know that someone as talented as you is basically right next door.

 

[ugsly]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I really like the flutes on that bolt Chad. They came out awesome, very nice work

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

This morning starts with getting the pad glued to the stock.

Here's my fixture set up in the manual. I made this about 8 years ago. It's a real time saver as I can do everything on the ass of a stock in one setup. Mill it, glue it, and bore any holes for adjustable buttplates. It's also nice because the pad surface has no choice but to be square to the showline of the stock. No issues with it being off a bit. Better finishes on the edges too because the endmill can shear into the gel coat, avoiding chips and splits that used to kick my butt when using a saw blade.


Creative use of the quill lock and a strip of cork on an old parallel makes for a nice clamp while the epoxy hardens.


Easy stuff. The work starts after the epoxy is hard. GRINDING! It's a messy job. Easy to screw up too. I use a big nasty belt sander that makes quick work of grinding the pad. It'll also ruin a stock really quick if your not careful.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Something I am really good at is ensuring Pachmeyer has record profit earnings.

I <span style="font-style: italic">excel</span> at grinding through the pad to the brass shim cast inside the recoil pad. This ruins the pad for those not familiar with it. Even when I double check stuff I seem to find a way to do it. (yes, I have the Brownells shim kit)

So, in this case I'm erring to the side of caution. The pad should make it, but it's close. Since this is the only 1" "woos" pad I have right now I'm doing a little bodywork on the stock. I went about grinding the pad as usual but left about .03" on the sides for extra safety. To make life easy on the painting process I'm now adding a skin layer of my "home brew" body filler on the sides. It's a quick set resin that I have mixed with baking soda. -a trick I picked up from fiddling with my giant scale radio controlled aerobatic and racing planes. Makes for a nice hard filler that sands really nice.

 

[338RUM runner]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Mr. C, Quick question, how much clearence do you leave between the barrel and the stock as a general rule when you free float.Always wanted to know.
Enjoy your work and pictures, Thanks

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

I leave .03 on the sides and anywhere from .04 to .1 on the bottom.

It kinda depends on the application. If its a light weight sporter rifle I'll run it closer just to preserve the "feel" of the gun. Since these kinds of rifles aren't known for sustained shooting off rests its a good compromise I think.

Dedicated bag/bipod guns get more.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Stockwork is now pretty much done. It's off to the painter later this afternoon.

Now it's a matter of getting all the metalwork tuned up. I've sanded the nicks out of the receiver. (it'd been well used

) All the big parts (minus barrel) are in the tumbler just to make the finish uniform for coating.

Jon Beanland down in Oklahoma has done a few guns for me as of late. He's really come through on every one of them.


Very easy to work with. I recommend anyone needing coating to give him a call.

On that note, Jeff up at Falcon Coat is another great source.

Ok, back to work.

The owner seems to like the engraving stuff I can do. Were gonna have a little fun with the back of the bolt shroud on this one. This is the latest piece of equipment I picked up here recently. A Prazi mini lathe. The price was just too good to pass up on. Prazi is considered the "cadillac" of mini lathes by many.

It's proven to be pretty handy for little jobs.

I have a quick change tool post on order. Monday hopefully.

I'm going to sand on the back of the shroud here in preparation for the engraving.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Shroud's all done now.

Off to the painter/plater!

 

[pd721el]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Chad,looks great. I was at his shop last week for a little work on a bench gun. Both this rifle and the 7mm had has posted in another thread look great. The stock to metal fit and total finish on the 7mm was amazing. I would highly recommend his work.

 

[LRI]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Yeeeesssss.....


Doesn't hurt a thiiinnnnggg.

 

[T J]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

Man... watchin this thread is like sitting front row at a high end strip club, top quality product that I can't put my hands on....(yet)! Seriously though, thanks for excellent work & outstanding support, I can't wait to get this bad boy home.

 

[Bubb]

Re: 6mm-284 remix. . .

TJ your right watching this stuff come together is awesome!! I would love to see a short video of the steps and group shots from the rig when its done!!! Kind of like super bowl sunday put for gun nuts!!!! FWI I think post like these from Chad have to be better than any $$$$ spent on marketing!

Please i hope there is more to come!