- Thread starter jbell
- Start date
Any peeps have any opinions on wind affecting the VERTICAL spread in groups. Shot 100 yards today, 11 mph wind, 20 mph gusts (taken off Windy app, not measured, but did feel a bit breezy), variable direction from 90 degrees to about 150 degrees. The range has berms both sides and one end, wind at the firing point and target maybe half the Windy app speeds and also messed up by the range layout.
Had a couple of groups with the usual horizontal spread, but also had a two, 2-inch groups where the 2 inch spread was the vertical direction. Don't recall anything going wrong when I released the shot. Kept constant cheek weld; parallax adjusted ok. Rifle was a T1x, with moderator, RWS R100 22LR.
Pic below of the two inch group, with a 0.69 inch (it's marked incorrectly as 0.619 in photo, its actually 0.691") group shot only seconds afterwards. I'm scratching my head about what was going on?
Had a couple of groups with the usual horizontal spread, but also had a two, 2-inch groups where the 2 inch spread was the vertical direction. Don't recall anything going wrong when I released the shot. Kept constant cheek weld; parallax adjusted ok. Rifle was a T1x, with moderator, RWS R100 22LR.
Pic below of the two inch group, with a 0.69 inch (it's marked incorrectly as 0.619 in photo, its actually 0.691") group shot only seconds afterwards. I'm scratching my head about what was going on?
When’s the last time you really scrubbed the chamber in your rifle?? You may have a carbon ring building up. I know I had an issue with vertical stringing in my vudoo, scrubbed the chamber, and boom, right back to normal. That could be your issue.Any peeps have any opinions on wind affecting the VERTICAL spread in groups. Shot 100 yards today, 11 mph wind, 20 mph gusts (taken off Windy app, not measured, but did feel a bit breezy), variable direction from 90 degrees to about 150 degrees. The range has berms both sides and one end, wind at the firing point and target maybe half the Windy app speeds and also messed up by the range layout.
Had a couple of groups with the usual horizontal spread, but also had a two, 2-inch groups where the 2 inch spread was the vertical direction. Don't recall anything going wrong when I released the shot. Kept constant cheek weld; parallax adjusted ok. Rifle was a T1x, with moderator, RWS R100 22LR.
Pic below of the two inch group, with a 0.69 inch (it's marked incorrectly as 0.619 in photo, its actually 0.691") group shot only seconds afterwards. I'm scratching my head about what was going on?
I ran a bore snake through it the night before I shot those groups in the photo. The gun is fairly new, maybe 500 rounds so far; haven't put anything more than a bore snake through it so far.
Yes, wind can absolutely raise or lower POI depending on the terrain your shooting over and the wind vector. I shot a little last night and was seeing about 1/2" of vertical from a 3-5 mph wind from 12 o'clock. It only occurred when the wind came on other than that accuracy was good. Some ranges I shot I have to shoot over berms and wind can get you there the same. Also shooting over hot ground and cool water (like a pond) in the same shot creates some thermals that can do funny stuff. I start to see it at 100 and maybe slightly at 50 yards, but it really only shows up past 100 yards
Here's my 6x5 from today with a new Bergara B14 R. I've got less than 100 rounds through it, but it's looking pretty good to me.
It was cold about 24*F and 80% RH, snow on the ground but no wind to speak of.
It was cold about 24*F and 80% RH, snow on the ground but no wind to speak of.
Just Chuck, nice looking rifle. I have it on the results.
Just Chuck, I like the look of your Bergara. Nice rifle. Bisquits I have seen wind cause small and large vertical POI variance (both up and down) even at short ranges such as 50y on 22lr before. My home range has a covered firing line and a 2nd building to the West. We shoot to the North and sometimes experience odd vertical shot displacement of as much as 1/2" or more in some cases at 50y. It happens even with very high quality ammo like Lapua and Eley and can occur even with super high quality rifles like the Anschutz, VuDoo, Winchester 52, etc. These variations are in addition to the usual small vertical shifts that come with certain wind vector angles. We have speculated that it is from random rolling vortices coming from behind off of the roof of the building or from the left where the 2nd building sits. Certain wind flags like the bobbers used by bench rest shooters can give you an indication of their presence but that may or may not help your aim. Plus, remember that flags are reactive and they take time to respond to changes in wind direction. It may only be seconds but if you send the shot at that moment, you might get an "Oops" on the tgt. You can usually feel the wind change quicker than the flags will respond. I can think of many times this year where I felt a shift or increase in the wind and instead of firing a record shot in a match, I stopped and went to a sighter and was relieved to see a wild flyer that did not affect my score. Not all forms of competition will offer the luxury of flags or the time for or benefit of sighters. PRS and NRL style matches come to mind. BR matches on the other hand provide lots of time and unlimited sighters.
If I see such winds and have time, I try to wait them out. Shoot a few sighters and then re-engage the tgt. It can be very frustrating and puzzling for even expert shooters.
If I see such winds and have time, I try to wait them out. Shoot a few sighters and then re-engage the tgt. It can be very frustrating and puzzling for even expert shooters.
Greetings all,
my first 6x5 at 50 yards post here and i have much to learn.
Cz 457 Pro Varmint with 750 rounds.
I hope to get to the 100 yard groups on Boxing Day.
Merry xmas and happy holidays.
my first 6x5 at 50 yards post here and i have much to learn.
Cz 457 Pro Varmint with 750 rounds.
I hope to get to the 100 yard groups on Boxing Day.
Merry xmas and happy holidays.
Ok, please excuse the noob, but I have seen a few people using a 6x5 Sniper’s Hide printable page. Is this buried somewhere in this thread? I like the idea of consolidated info, targets, etc on a single page I can print and run to the range with. TIA!
You sending the Wolf? SHIT... nergo, that’s all you had to say!
Welcome to the 6X5 Mr. Wolf, that is a good shooting CZ you have there. I look forward to seeing more of it. I have you on the results.
Welcome to the 6X5 Mr. Wolf, that is a good shooting CZ you have there. I look forward to seeing more of it. I have you on the results.
Just want to check in as to what 200 yard (or anything 100 plus) are doing for picking your shooting times. Do you wait for a windless day? Do you have somewhere where a constant wind blows and you can just correct for it?
Also what ammo are you using?
Also what ammo are you using?
Its not too particular for the 200 yard mainly because there are not that many entries. So sure anything over 100...
Shooting in wind is tough out past 50 yards, so...
Ammo is usually whatever your rifle shoots best, but these days it's more like whatever you can get.
When my wife and I discussed getting into the LR .22 game our goal was to practice more at our local range ( max 200 yards) to help with our skills for when we get to go out to 1000yrds and beyond with our 6.5CM guns.
The intent was pretty much to shoot the .22’s exclusively at 200 or 300 yards.
we are using CenterX that I bought blindly. Super happy with the CenterX. No lot testing yet ( will lot test CenterX and Midas next month ) and compare to the lot we currently have. Hope to find something better when we test.
We have shot at 200 yards in winds up to 20mph+ Just so we could see what the .22 could do. Honestly we were both really impressed at how well it actually shot. We didn’t time our shots between gusts or anything just kept shooting. We had wind flags out but they were blowing in all different directions so we said heck with the flags in the future. Just shoot and adjust. We have been out at 300 yards 1 time and it was shifting winds at 10-15mph. We were laughing on the way to the range that day joking about how bad it was going to be. Again we were very impressed with how well the .22 handled the wind. Best group at 300 that day was 5.5 inches
It’s cold here now so no real tolerance for winds and cold
we will wait for nicer weather ( above 50 deg ) to shoot the .22’s or instead shoot other guns while we wait for it to warm up a bit. As I get older my tolerance for shivering at the range is getting shorter and shorter.
Here is a target with winds at 15+. If it’s windy out we just know we won’t be setting any records that day but we will still have fun.
545riflefan I have this rifle on the 20 yard results, but what rifle is it? The T1X you have been shooting? I am not sure what the BCX is...
sorry for the confusion
this was shot a while back with my T1x. Nothing to score on this. Only showing it to show what a bit of wind will do to the groups.
the BCx is how me and my wife keep our targets marked so we know who shot that target. B for me and M for her. So the BCx is my target using CenterX lot ending 184.
Ahhh, roger.
jbell, Rimfireshooter99 here, received a new rifle a few weeks back, been working on the tuner and testing some ammo lots, learning how to shoot it. I have a new 6x5 for submission from a postal match target I participate in.
Rifle is a 2500x, Shilen barrel, B&A trigger, McMillan stock, Athlon 10x40 scope.
Target: Average of 6 groups = 0.2246 (0.225), measured by ETE (outer edge of the black ring surrounding the widest shots in the group), then subtracting 0.223 to get the CTC results. Smallest group size CTC is 0.166.
Let me know if I am measuring correctly for the 6x5?
Also, I sold my other rifle I was shooting in the 6x5 so you can remove my prior scores, as appropriate.
Thanks!
RFS99
Rifle is a 2500x, Shilen barrel, B&A trigger, McMillan stock, Athlon 10x40 scope.
Target: Average of 6 groups = 0.2246 (0.225), measured by ETE (outer edge of the black ring surrounding the widest shots in the group), then subtracting 0.223 to get the CTC results. Smallest group size CTC is 0.166.
Let me know if I am measuring correctly for the 6x5?
Also, I sold my other rifle I was shooting in the 6x5 so you can remove my prior scores, as appropriate.
Thanks!
RFS99
Attachments
Rimfireshooter99, looks great nice shooting! Who built the rifle, I like to put the builder in the info? So you know I keep the results per rifle so one shooter can have multiple rifles on the results.
So everyone knows I think I am going to start a new 6X5 results on Jan 01 but I will archive the old one like I have the previous.
jbell, Thanks!. Killough Shooting Sports built it, in Texas.
jbell, I am just back from the range again. This morning, in advance of a snow storm in our area, there were no winds, and I mean not a farts worth. Those days come few and far between. I shot the 6x5 100 yard, targets attached.
Same rifle, Caldwell BR front rest, rear Protektor bag.
Overall average was 0.466, best was 0.406.
#1 - 0.406
#2 - 0.415
#3 - 0.478
#4 - 0.462
#5 - 0.545
#6 - 0.490
Total was 2.796/6= 0.466.
Temp was 18F 15 minutes before the start of shooting (weather app screen shot included below). I did not do a cold bore shot, and the targets were shot after "warmup".
Dimensions were measured the same as my 50 yard targets, caliper to measure the ETE (brown ring around the farthest two holes in the group), subtract 0.223, equals CTC values, recorded above. Math was included on the back of each target (picture below).
One additional note, I shot Eley Match for both this 6x5 and the 50 yard 6x5.
Any questions, please let me know.
Thanks!
RFS99
Same rifle, Caldwell BR front rest, rear Protektor bag.
Overall average was 0.466, best was 0.406.
#1 - 0.406
#2 - 0.415
#3 - 0.478
#4 - 0.462
#5 - 0.545
#6 - 0.490
Total was 2.796/6= 0.466.
Temp was 18F 15 minutes before the start of shooting (weather app screen shot included below). I did not do a cold bore shot, and the targets were shot after "warmup".
Dimensions were measured the same as my 50 yard targets, caliper to measure the ETE (brown ring around the farthest two holes in the group), subtract 0.223, equals CTC values, recorded above. Math was included on the back of each target (picture below).
One additional note, I shot Eley Match for both this 6x5 and the 50 yard 6x5.
Any questions, please let me know.
Thanks!
RFS99
Attachments
Great shooting at 100 yards. They are some very impressive groups, especially in the cold.
Seems to me that Eley Match does well in cold temps, or did you keep them warm somehow.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you! I kept the ammo in the house overnight, until I got to the range. I did not shoot inside today (in the heated area), so the ammo had a chance to cool down to some degree before shooting. Probably was a 1/2 hour in the range case from the car to the bench before starting to shoot.
Yes sir! Conservation Club of Kenosha County.
Very impressive 50 & 100 yard groups RF99. Good shooting. I am excited to see these results. Especially since I have almost the same rifle being built.
Gjmen22
Gjmen22, is KSS building it for you?Very impressive 50 & 100 yard groups RF99. Good shooting. I am excited to see these results. Especially since I have almost the same rifle being built.
Gjmen22
Rimfireshooter99, that is some smoking good shooting. I cant wait to see what it does in warm weather! Dan is very good people and his gunsmith builds some accurate rifles. I had a 2500XR when they first came out with a Ratchet that I bought from Dan, it had some feeding and extracting issues (no fault of KSS) but damn it would shoot! I have your 2500X on the 100 yard results.
Yes, Richard Gorham thru KSS. It may take some time. From my understanding it is hard to get the Shilen ratchets right now so it might take a while.
Gjmen22
Thanks jbell, this is my first custom rifle and boy, it shoots fine.... Even in the dang cold weather. I have high hopes it will also shoot well in warmer weather as I plan to join in on some ARA matches here in Wisconsin. This is my 6th range day with the rifle so we are still getting to know each other. KSS builds some dang good stuff, if you ask me. I hope to get some quiet winds after the first of the year so I can shoot a new set for your new 6x5. I should be able to do better on the 50 than what I submitted a few days ago.
Take care and thanks for all your hard work coordinating this thread and keeping track of all the data.
RFS99
That is great. You will not be disappointed. Let me know if you need any help on a testing strategy for the tuner and ammo. I can share what I did and it might save you some time when you get the rifle together and start shooting. Mine seems to like Eley Match, which is good, since that's about all we can find in today's world. I purchased 5 bricks of one lot, and 2.5 bricks of another lot to get me started and through the cold weather. I can send you a summary via PM if you're interested. Just let me know.
Thanks,
RFS99
Yes, I would appreciate that. I have used the Hopewell method in the past which worked great but always looking at different options.
Gjmen22
@Rimfireshooter99:
Were you using a tuner? If so did you have different settings for 50yd and 100yd?
Rick
Welcome to version 5.0, here is to a new year! Let’s hope it is a bit better than the shit show that was 2020. Well I guess that last statement does apply to rimfire, we as rimfire shooters had one of the best years ever with so many awesome products, new match formats, and shooters like you all pushing the limits of this fun little cartridge.
Its truly my pleasure, I have a front row seat watching all you great shooters. I went to the range this afternoon with the intention of shooting a 6X5. However after clearing mountain bike trails all morning (hiking a big chainsaw and gas about 8 miles and cutting up blow downs) my shoulders were smoked and the muscles were spasming a bit. I bailed after 15 rounds, ha! I would have kept shooting if ammo wasn't so hard to come by but I figured I had better not waste it when I can't begin to hold still...
This is from this morning, trying to get some good carma going for the 2021 race season (racing mountain bikes is my other vise)
I did a little trail decoration while I was at it. You can't tell from the picture but this is a pretty good little ripper of a hill to bomb down.
I had a little BRCC before the hike back out:
Happy New Years everyone, & thank you all for making this thread what it is!
Now back to the regularly scheduled programming...
This is from this morning, trying to get some good carma going for the 2021 race season (racing mountain bikes is my other vise)
I did a little trail decoration while I was at it. You can't tell from the picture but this is a pretty good little ripper of a hill to bomb down.
I had a little BRCC before the hike back out:
Happy New Years everyone, & thank you all for making this thread what it is!
Now back to the regularly scheduled programming...
Ok. So... BRRRRRRRRR
Been wanting to see what cold temps would do to the groupings at 200. I’ve been trying to figure out if I can get away with 1 type of ammo for 4 season shooting. Folks seem to say the Polar is the way to go for under 50 deg. I had to find out for myself.
Today was cold ( for me anyway ) at 36 deg
winds were 2-3
the benches were free of ice.
Tikka T1x
Sightron s3 6-24
Shot off bipod and rear bag
these are 3 runs at the 6x5
it does look like the temps open the groups up just a bit over what I’m used to seeing at 70 deg. I’m happy to see that it really isn’t that bad.
I did have to dial in 31MOA
I’m usually at 23-24 MOA at 200 when the temps are above 70.
Im shooting Lapua centerX lot 2355184. I purchase this blind so I have no idea yet if I can improve on these results. I’ll be lot testing next month and after today’s results will most likely focus on centerX and Midas and not worry about the Polar
best group today was 1.848
best avg today was 2.738
this is for sure off my best but not as bad as I was expecting in the cold. Also my first time shooting with gloves on.
Been wanting to see what cold temps would do to the groupings at 200. I’ve been trying to figure out if I can get away with 1 type of ammo for 4 season shooting. Folks seem to say the Polar is the way to go for under 50 deg. I had to find out for myself.
Today was cold ( for me anyway ) at 36 deg
winds were 2-3
the benches were free of ice.
Tikka T1x
Sightron s3 6-24
Shot off bipod and rear bag
these are 3 runs at the 6x5
it does look like the temps open the groups up just a bit over what I’m used to seeing at 70 deg. I’m happy to see that it really isn’t that bad.
I did have to dial in 31MOA
I’m usually at 23-24 MOA at 200 when the temps are above 70.
Im shooting Lapua centerX lot 2355184. I purchase this blind so I have no idea yet if I can improve on these results. I’ll be lot testing next month and after today’s results will most likely focus on centerX and Midas and not worry about the Polar
best group today was 1.848
best avg today was 2.738
this is for sure off my best but not as bad as I was expecting in the cold. Also my first time shooting with gloves on.
Got the Penrod H&R Model 12 out today. 100 yards with Eley Tenex. It didn’t disappoint. I shot 8 groups as group number 2 opened up a bit. Groups 3-6 were solid so I shot two more. Average for the Group 3 to 8 6x5 was .52”.
1-6 was .63” Good start to 2021...
1-6 was .63” Good start to 2021...
Attachments
Did Mark replace your trigger and action, or are they stock, and the barrel and tuner are new?
Thanks,
RFS99
RFS99, first nice work with the Stiller. As to my rifle, I bought it used, so I don’t know much about what Mark did with it. The action is original and it’s a CMP rifle. US stamped. The trigger feels stock (maybe lightly worked) and is rather heavy. Like 2 lb pull heavy. The Barrel is stamped Penrod and it came with the tuner installed. It’s been a super rifle and is the best shooter I own.
Not a bad way to start off the 2021 6X5, nice shooting Gentlemen! I have y’all on the board and I have a feeling that they will be up top for quite a while.
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Here’s my first entry of the year. Nothing earth shattering but I’m definitely out of practice being this is only the second time to shoot in almost 2 months. Shot this after chronographing several different brands and lots.
only 400rds down the barrel so far.
RimX
Green Mountain 1.2 straight at 21.5”
Bix and Andy TacSport Pro
PDC chassis
Razor Gen II 4.5-27
Cal Gen 2 and rear bag.
Center X
Avg. 1074fps
ES 21
SD 6.2
40 degrees
DA 531
Humidity 28.9
Wind 2-5 from 11:00
50 yards bipod and rear bag
6x5 avg. .3335
only 400rds down the barrel so far.
RimX
Green Mountain 1.2 straight at 21.5”
Bix and Andy TacSport Pro
PDC chassis
Razor Gen II 4.5-27
Cal Gen 2 and rear bag.
Center X
Avg. 1074fps
ES 21
SD 6.2
40 degrees
DA 531
Humidity 28.9
Wind 2-5 from 11:00
50 yards bipod and rear bag
6x5 avg. .3335
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That is one hell of a barrel! Looks like it is going to be a shooter too.
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